Competitive Fairness in Fantasy Football With This Eras Technology (1 Viewer)

[GregR]

Contract style dynasty leagues with a 'monetary' bid system for acquiring players avoid most of this problem.  You just need committed owners who are willing to take a few seasons to fix a team after they have made some bad moves.

League setup can definitely make a difference. When I constructed rules for my dynasty contract league, I had many goals for it but one was definitely that I wanted a situation that gives skill and effort a chance to differentiate.

There's a number of things you can do that require people to have to think and where information is not as readily at hand.  Auctions (though not as much as in the past). Contracts with escalating salaries and multiple extension options requiring thought to find the best for a given situation.  Deeper rosters so you have to think deeper on NFL rosters than canned information caters to.  Having a different and larger starting lineup than normal so canned information is less likely to apply.  The same for scoring systems so canned rankings and ADP are not as applicable.

I stocked the league with the better owners from my other two leagues, and it quickly became clear which had either been using good sources of canned info, or who had just learned from doing on what was the right thing to do in a cookie cutter league.  When the format changed drastically, they performed more like newbs, while the 3 or 4 owners in the group who understood how to evaluate things on their own dominated. After a few years the rest of the league learned, often from just observing what was successful for the latter group who figured it out themselves from the get go.

 

[Hawkeye21]

I almost think that it's gotten to the point where there's too much information out there.  I don't see it as that big of a deal since we are still responsible to decided what players to play on our own.  If you listen to 5 different podcasts there's a good chance you going to get at least two or three different opinions on the same player.  In that case it's up to you to determine which guy is most likely to be right or go with the guy that has the same opinion as you.

 

[MattFancy]

The worst is when you're all ready to make a "sneaky" free agent add, then you log on to your league homepage and see that player under "THIS WEEK'S FREE AGENTS TOO ADD".

Us nerds definitely had a bigger advantage when everyone didn't receive every piece of news instantly.

That's why I try to get my leagues to move to FAAB. Sure, everyone knows that Tarik Cohen could be the top add this week, but now you have to figure out how much of your $100 you want to spend on him. Adds some strategy to FA pickups outside of just having the top WW spot every week.

 

[[icon]]

This is certainly evident these days, with half the guys in some of my leagues using Footballguys, Sleeperbot, etc. That said, most don't have the attention span to stay "Focused" the full season, and stay on top of the wire properly. That is one area I think the dedicated FFL player can still gain an edge. Sure, they're getting alerts on the 1 or 2 big guys... but there are a lot more worthy grabs that aren't being broadcast. 

 

[-OZ-]

League setup can definitely make a difference. When I constructed rules for my dynasty contract league, I had many goals for it but one was definitely that I wanted a situation that gives skill a chance to differentiate.

There's a number of things you can do that require people to have to think and where information is not as readily at hand.  Auctions (though not as much as in the past). Contracts with escalating salaries and multiple extension options requiring thought to find the best for a given situation.  Deeper rosters so you have to think deeper on NFL rosters than canned information caters to.  Having a different and larger starting lineup than normal so canned information is less likely to apply.  The same for scoring systems so canned rankings and ADP are not as applicable.

I stocked the league with the better owners from my other two leagues, and it quickly became clear which had either been using good sources of canned info, or who had just learned from doing on what was the right thing to do in a cookie cutter league.  When the format changed drastically, they performed more like newbs, while the 3 or 4 owners in the group who understood how to evaluate things no their own dominated. After a few years the rest of the league learned, often from just observing what was successful for the latter group who figured it out themselves from the get go.

  to both.  

OTOH, going from almost exclusively 16-20 team leagues to a 10 team league was an interesting experience for me this season.  for example, guys that I like a lot as WR2 types are suddenly not valuable. 

 

[-OZ-]

That's why I try to get my leagues to move to FAAB. Sure, everyone knows that Tarik Cohen could be the top add this week, but now you have to figure out how much of your $100 you want to spend on him. Adds some strategy to FA pickups outside of just having the top WW spot every week.

well, a real shark would have drafted Cohen.

 

[MattFancy]

well, a real shark would have drafted Cohen.

In fairness, he is on my contest team!

 

[32 Counter Pass]

So I have been playing fantasy football 20ish years, like many of you. When this began, it was about skill of paying attention and catching on guys you thought were sleepers and who the next big player was. Time and effort mattered... Not everyone was able to watch all the games. Not everyone had spare time to check the latest info.  I used to sit at BWW all day as a young single guy just so I can see everything before I could get the Sunday Ticket, now you dont need to watch a game to get any info at all. 

Now, there is an alert for everything where people who dont even watch football can get all the info and even more than you have. Guys in a few of my leagues who check the site once a week, click all the info buttons yahoo or ESPN now has and does not need to put any time and effort into trying to win. 

ESPN even sent out alert to my entire league telling them to Scoop K. Williams because D. Johnson was hurt.  Used to be you didnt watch the game or care, you wouldnt know...now you wake up Tuesday, make your moves and dont need to care for another week because ESPN told you what to do.

Now I am not talking about if it works out or if those who take service advice are always right, but still, technology did the work for them.

Has fantasy football become more fun or more boring for you as technology makes everyone as an equal and takes the "skill of paying attention and having and advantage" out of the game? Yes, I do consider watching the games and seeing who is good for yourself a skill, all be it a small one. I used to watch games to see what players will have upside, now we have a million places on the internet to tell us. Now I just watch to see if my guy scores, never used to be that way...it was watching to see who I should scoop, now we have apps to tell us. Of course, I am not talking about good owners taking the advice or not because they know better in some cases, but it does level the playing field as far as info it provides to those who dont pay attention. 

You make a valid point but there is nothing you can do to change it. I take issue with the bolded in your original post. I do not necessarily sit all day long watching games, in part because I can watch 3-4 games on NFL rewind in teh same time it takes to watch a single game. That said I get a ton of valuable info watching these games that generally translate into success.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

dude, where'd my arbitrage go?

 

[Hankmoody]

The only thing that's changed is it's easier for the masses to find.  The info has always been "out there", the only difference from 20 years ago is that it was just hidden in corners of the web like here, Antsports, the Huddle, etc.  "We" knew about those sites and "they" didn't - that's the only difference.  "We" got our info from someone else, just like "they" do now.  The only difference is we needed to spend 5 minutes on Webcrawler (yes I did) to find those site.  Once we got there there was a smaller community that did exactly what is now mainstream.  You didn't have to watch football back then to get the info either. 

FF hasn't changed for me at all.  It's still about being right, it's still about sifting through the noise and determining what is right and what isn't.  You do have to watch football if you want to get in front of things like Tyrell Williams being legit or Stephon Diggs being more than a flash in the pan 5th round draft pick dodging the JAG's along the way.

 

[I Am Rick James]

I completely agree with the OP.

I used to scout my ### off and dominate most of my leagues. But in the last 5 years, all that scouting just doesn't pay off like it used to. 

The best answer is to deviate league rules, IDP, etc. but most of my friends are afraid of that. 

 

[Football Jones]

Wouldn't it take more skill if more people are getting the same info? Skill in processing the info, not overreacting, drafting the right guys based on value, etc.

Very good point. It's all about processing info in relation to scouting, drafting, trading, waivers, & lineup decisions.

 

[Mavis]

so basically you don't like that it's more equal for those who don't have or want to put the time in on a Sunday afternoon.  

Well sure, I dont like it, but it doesnt mean it isnt fair. Means the info in the technology era has gave everything a competitive fairness in the way that info was say not 10 years ago, it has changed fantasy their is no dispute. 

 

[Skoo]

I should add that reading threads on this forum has been the BEST way to combat this.

Whether it's a waiver wire thread or a player-thread, I have gotten a TON of great insight about players to keep an eye out for, WAY before the rest of the internet starts talking about it.

So thanks, fellas.

 

[GROOT]

Autodraft guys tend to do well don't they?

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Has fantasy football become more fun or more boring for you as technology makes everyone as an equal

More boring, IMO.

I agree with pretty much everything you've stated. I used to love watching backups, etc. to try to stay ahead of the curve, but that's pretty much a waste at this point.

The other thing that these technology advancements have done is killed trading. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I feel like leagues used to have a lot more trading. I think the easy access to ranking lists has killed a lot of trading. These lists are always going to favor one side or the other. It makes the owner of the side that the "experts" may judge to be at a slight disadvantage avoid pulling the trigger in stead of going with their gut, like they would have before you had access to these lists.

 

[Shutout]

To answer the original question, it is much more boring.  I still enjoy the concept of ff but I actually quit because of lots of things I now find wrong with it (you touched on a few things that takes the fun of it from me).  

I fell in love with fantasy football when I sat in on a draft not as an owner but as the guy writing down the picks and keeping it straight.long time ago.  These guys all come in with their team jerseys and caps and magazines telling who to draft and then this one dude comes in with nothing. Not even a pencil.  He makes his picks and at some point he says "carl Pickens" and guys laugh at him.  Carl Pickens had a very good year that year and that dude won the league. I was impressed and asked him how he knew and he said "I watched practice Thursday.  The guy stood out,etc,etc". 

I got hooked because I could see people willing to put the time into it and emulate a scout/gm could reap rewards off lemmings.  I went on to have a remarkable run in ff, but once the saturation of too much info came into play, the role went from being an orchestrator to being a risk accountant.  Still had success but it did take the fun out of it when it felt more like just knowing how to game the game.  

I basically quit when. The rules and commercials and the casual owners saturated the game.  

I think...Know...If the spoon fed info wasn't available,we would have. A lot less owners. But I think we would have a lot better quality because the game of ff is too easy to get into.  That's good and bad.  On one hand, anyone can find ten leagues. On the other, the quality and commitment isn't there and when you win now it's more like you survive what you were supposed to instead of actually did anything. 

 

[Mavis]

More boring, IMO.

I agree with pretty much everything you've stated. I used to love watching backups, etc. to try to stay ahead of the curve, but that's pretty much a waste at this point.

The other thing that these technology advancements have done is killed trading. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I feel like leagues used to have a lot more trading. I think the easy access to ranking lists has killed a lot of trading. These lists are always going to favor one side or the other. It makes the owner of the side that the "experts" may judge to be at a slight disadvantage avoid pulling the trigger in stead of going with their gut, like they would have before you had access to these lists.

Good point on the trading. Trades just dont happen in some of my leagues anymore. Yahoo even puts a trade eval on their trades based of their own score projections, lol. The number of peopel who buy that nonsense is real. I know good owners who let that play a factor. 

 

[Mavis]

To answer the original question, it is much more boring.  I still enjoy the concept of ff but I actually quit because of lots of things I now find wrong with it (you touched on a few things that takes the fun of it from me).  

I fell in love with fantasy football when I sat in on a draft not as an owner but as the guy writing down the picks and keeping it straight.long time ago.  These guys all come in with their team jerseys and caps and magazines telling who to draft and then this one dude comes in with nothing. Not even a pencil.  He makes his picks and at some point he says "carl Pickens" and guys laugh at him.  Carl Pickens had a very good year that year and that dude won the league. I was impressed and asked him how he knew and he said "I watched practice Thursday.  The guy stood out,etc,etc". 

I got hooked because I could see people willing to put the time into it and emulate a scout/gm could reap rewards off lemmings.  I went on to have a remarkable run in ff, but once the saturation of too much info came into play, the role went from being an orchestrator to being a risk accountant.  Still had success but it did take the fun out of it when it felt more like just knowing how to game the game.  

I basically quit when. The rules and commercials and the casual owners saturated the game.  

I think...Know...If the spoon fed info wasn't available,we would have. A lot less owners. But I think we would have a lot better quality because the game of ff is too easy to get into.  That's good and bad.  On one hand, anyone can find ten leagues. On the other, the quality and commitment isn't there and when you win now it's more like you survive what you were supposed to instead of actually did anything. 

I swear on my children, in my trophy league, a person drafted Aaron Hernandez while he was sitting in jail being charged with murder. No joke, he had no idea. You cant be more unaware. Guess he needed the ESPN app. I wanted to add, that guy is no longer in our league. lol

 

[matuski]

Thats what Im saying habsfan-- yes, everyone is going to know about Booker by tuesday. But the shark already saw Howard taking over in chicago two or three weeks before it was official.

Which owner had more success last year? The guy who picked up Howard early or the guy who lucked into Booker cause of FA$$ or waiver order.

There is no such thing anymore.  If you saw it, 20 bloggers and "experts" wrote articles about it 20 seconds later.

 

[davearm]

A few comments:

• this isn't a recent phenomenon.  This conversation has been had for years now.
  
• GregR touched on this, but "skill" is not really a word that belongs in this discussion.  What's happened is information-gathering has become easier for the less committed FF player.  Information gathering was never a skill in the first place.
  
• Information *processing* is a skill, and that element of FF really hasn't changed.
  

Just using this week as an example.  Now every FF player knows the WW RBs to be focused on are Cohen, Williams, Carson, Allen.  In the past, some of those guys would have remained unknown to some FF players.  Now every site has these guys in this week's add/drop article.  That's the information-gathering phase.

The information-processing phase involves ranking those players 1-4 in terms of priority, or valuing them in terms of % of FAAB.  This involves information processing.  There's still opportunity for good FF players to outplay lesser players in this phase... or at a minimum, make better educated guesses about how things will shake out.

 

[Wrigley]

I once showed up at our draft with a couple year old magazine, tore off the cover, and left it in the middle of a draft table 

guppies ate it up 

guy tried drafting Fred Lane that year 

edit: Fred Lane was dead 

 

[Hankmoody]

More boring, IMO.

I agree with pretty much everything you've stated. I used to love watching backups, etc. to try to stay ahead of the curve, but that's pretty much a waste at this point.

The other thing that these technology advancements have done is killed trading. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I feel like leagues used to have a lot more trading. I think the easy access to ranking lists has killed a lot of trading. These lists are always going to favor one side or the other. It makes the owner of the side that the "experts" may judge to be at a slight disadvantage avoid pulling the trigger in stead of going with their gut, like they would have before you had access to these lists.

Flex spots killed trading.  It used to be if you lost an RB you were in trouble and you had to go hunt down someone that had one.  Now you just go to the wire and pick up a WR or TE and never speak to another human being. 

 

[Nemesis]

For me, i think you have to go the next level for season long leagues.  As a commissioner of a longtime league, some of the ideas i think that have helped us are:

1. 2 QB league (or SuperFlex league):   No more are the days of JUST drafting that 1 Stud QB.       If me and my opponents have to start 2 QBs, let's see if your A.Rodgers +Dalton is better than my M.Ryan + R.Wilson
   ..........if i play in any 1 QB leagues, many times i simply don't draft a backup quarterback and will scour the waiver wire in the early part of the season or wait until my stud QB has his bye week.
    
   
2. More starting positions or FLEX positions:   Any robot can look at the WEEKLY RANKING of Position "X" on the internet of email and pick off the top couple of obvious players that they will start in the lineup this week.  If the league adds more FLEX positions, then the owner now has to go further down the list to make a decision...........especially deciding whether it's better to start a "better player" going against a tough defense or a usually "lessor player" up against a crappy team.
    
   
3. Blind Bids / FAAB:   As pointed out above........give everyone in the league a shot at player pickups.  Don't use "fantasy football welfare" system of giving pickups to the worst guy in the league.
    
   
4. Double Header Schedules:  Surprised no one mentioned this.  Double-header schedules reduce the luck factor as each week you can go 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2.  You still get the head to head excitement but don't get screwed if you put up a monster score but play the #1 high scorer of the week.....and vice versa if you got lucky and scored low but played against the worst score.   We've all read enough posts during the season that starts out......."You won't believe this...but i have the most points scored in the league and I'm at the bottom of the standings because {insert rest of story}"
    
   
5. 2 week Championship Matchup:  Simple........my league plays during NFL weeks 1-12.    Playoffs START during week 13.   Championship game is the combined score of Week 15 + 16.     Still a little luck involved, but usually the best team in the league has a pretty good shot at the crown each year.
   

With that said, i actually left a league last month that i was an owner for almost 20 years because they refused to even listen to suggestions.  It just got old and boring to me.  (no flex, no decimal scoring)

 

[NYRAGE]

I think we have a variation of this thread every year.

As a guy that has been playing for 20+ years, I understand what you're saying. It has definitely leveled the playing field to an extent. I've watched just about every game (multiple tvs, replays, etc) since I started playing. I could see with my own eyes who to pick up before most people could. You're right, now any fool not watching a game can just read a dozen websites or get alerts from dozens more. It is what it is.

Has it diminished my success over time? Maybe a little bit, but I still consistently make the playoffs and win championships. The playoffs have always been about who has the hot team over a week or two. Nothing has changed there.

Getting to the playoffs: well the key to me is avoiding major injuries. In the old days, if you knew what you were doing, you had an advantage over the average guy. You could build up your depth and spot available free agents before others did. Now it's a lot harder. I have one guy in my main league whose entire bench consists of back-up lottery tickets. It worked for him last year because he got several starting RBs and also made some trades to desperate teams.

You definitely have to adjust to the new environment. You have to be ahead of the crowd before the general public picks up on. It probably requires you to be more risky with your pick-ups. It's definitely harder now, but you adapt or rely on 100% luck. The others rely on just avoiding major injuries or getting lucky with lottery picks. These guys make the playoffs once every few years. A major injury basically knocks them out.  If you have skill, you can adapt better than others and still make a run for it.

Last year, I lost my first 8 round picks to injury. Believe it or not. I started off 5-1, but missed the playoffs by a tie-breaker in the last week. Other owners would have been done weeks before that. I have made the playoffs in seasons where I lost my first 5 rbs drafted to injury. There is still skill involved in roster management. Always keep churning out and improving your depth. Even trades where you have a marginal improvement is still an improvement and can lead to further improvements down the road.

 

[Dizzy]

25 years into it now, and still having fun, and came to grips with the fact that the vast majority of fantasy football success/failure is tied to LUCK (not Andrew Luck either... you know, the weird kind that randomly lands on people). Accepting this allows you to enjoy it much more. And thank the football gods that it is luck. Imagine how boring it would be if everything played out just as projected. It's the main reason I would never play this game for any serious money.

Bad luck sucks when it's YOU, but luck tends to balance out over time, so success may still lie in the nuances for those willing ignore outside influences and seek them out. The second half of drafts and in-season adjustments are where championships are won in today's FF landscape.

Regarding the technology and the amount of info available today… yes, there's a lot… too much actually. In fact it has become so over-saturated with "experts" that it almost cancels itself out. Just like seeking a second opinion from a doctor, if you look hard enough you will find someone who over- (or under-) values any player you are interested in. Flipping around websites, or FF shows on TV is like flipping back and forth between CNN and Fox News… hard to believe they are reporting on the same story!

This is where it pays to ignore outside influences… you have got to trust yourself. The OP playing FF for 20 years… how old were most of these "experts" 20 years ago? Fact is, anyone playing this game for that long is fully qualified to rank players and project results.

While it's frustrating to have all these ranking/suggestions right at one's fingertips, there are still human imperfections that cause Owners to reach for a guy because he's a huge college football fan, or because a player helped him win last year, or simply a guy that plays for his favorite team. The Owner that can steer clear of these pitfalls has an advantage as well.

So I may be in the minority here, but I still have a lot of fun playing in my primary redraft league… this our silver anniversary season, all original members… all fully accepting of the good, and bad luck that comes with the territory.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

I look at it a little differently.

15-20 years ago, leagues were littered with guys who did not pay attention and didn't 'know' the NFL or the best way to build FF teams.  As such, while the research you conducted put you very far ahead (vs now)...you also would hear things like - 'and in the 7th round I got Christian McCaffrey.  I RULE!'

I've never been much of a volume league player - 2 at the most.  But to me the research you do has more to do with building a POV that allows you to feel comfortable in discerning group think.  I started looking at snap counts years ago...now you hear it commonly used.  There is more data out there than ever, the key is to be able to leverage it in helping you make more informed and predictive decisions.

At the same time - the wealth of information allows for parity in leagues so you don't get 2-3 poor owners who allow you to boast 'stacked teams'.  I mean - I remember this forum when the most common refrain was 'can I be in your league?' when Sharks would post their teams.

 

[massraider]

Do a keeper league where you give up corresponding draft pick for each keeper. 

Or, just go do an auction.

The answer is there, has been for YEARS.