conditional picks of the Herschel Walker trade (1 Viewer)

[Black]

I was watching "Top 10 Worst Teams" on NFLN, and they mention the 1989 Cowboys. In the discussion of the resurrection of the Cowboys, they bring up the Herschel Walker trade, and mention that the key was the Conditional Picks that Jimmy Johnson knew he would get, because he had no intention of keeping certain players obtained in the trade. In fact, in a 1-15 season, he refused to start those acquired players (who were better than what he had on the field) so that he could cut them at the end of the year and receive the Conditional picks.

Looking at Wikipedia (below), I see a number of players that MIN gave up in the trade, plus the (5) conditional picks that make this the craziest, most lopsided trade of all time. In fact, without the conditional picks, MIN gets Herschel, Dallas gets (5) players, but basically just an additional 1st round pick (MIN swaps their 1990 2nd and 5th for Dallas' 1990 2nd, a 5th, 10th and 1991 3rd).

Besides MIN giving of (5) players for Herschel, there was basically the one 1991 1st round pick from MIN. Everything else seems to come out in the wash...until you look at those Conditional Picks!

So, Question....does anyone know the details of the Conditions on the players picks or have you read any more about Jimmy Johnson basically having NO intention of keeping those players and planning all along to get those Conditional Picks?

(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade)

Minnesota Vikings received

* RB Herschel Walker

* Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54) (Mike Jones)

* San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton)

* Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249) (Pat Newman)

* Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68) (Jake Reed)

Dallas Cowboys received

* LB Jesse Solomon

* LB David Howard

* CB Issiac Holt

* RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas)

* DE Alex Stewart

* Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) (traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft Emmitt Smith)

* Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright)

* Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams)

* Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (12) (Alvin Harper)

* Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Dixon Edwards)

* Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (37) (Darren Woodson)

* Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner)

* Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins)

 

[Black]

Hmm...love answering my own posts. Just found this on http://min.scout.com/2/11653.html

The Trade took place on October 12, 1989. MIN got Herschel Walker from the Cowboys...for 5 roster players (LB Jesse Solomon, DB Issiac Holt, RB Darrin Nelson, LB David Howard, DE Alex Stewart), and 6 assorted draft picks (conditional 1st & 2nd round in '90 and '91; 1st round and conditional 3rd in '92).

There's only one non-conditional pick in the first part of the trade in Oct 1989, but then looks like in Feb 1990, Cowboys had to give up some additional DAL picks when they threatened to just waive the players and take the Conditional Picks...

Nelson, upset at being traded, refused to report to the Cowboys...(blah blah). The Cowboys then waived DE Alex Stewart and threatened to waive other players in order to get all of the conditional draft picks. In February 1990, the Cowboys traded their 3rd and 10th round picks and their 1991 3rd rounder to the Vikings so that they could keep the 3 remaining roster players and all of the conditional draft picks.

 

[Black]

And yet again...answering my own post. I found this on http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/october_12_18/ This makes it pretty clear. The only thing I am still not sure about is why MIN had such weak language in the deal that allowed this loophole to be exploited, and how they were placated with just a couple of extra later picks. I think the worst part of the whole deal was that Herschel Walker was released by the Vikings in May 1992, was picked up by Philadelphia, and eventually ended up back with the Cowboys in 1996.

In the original version, the Cowboys received five players and six draft picks, five of them attached to the players in the deal; after the season, Dallas was to decide if they wanted the player or the pick. One of them refused to report to the Cowboys, and was sent to San Diego and ultimately back to Minnesota in an arrangement that gave Dallas additional draft selections, one of which was passed along to the Vikings. Dallas waived one of the players, and threatened to waive others at the end of the season in order to solidify the conditional picks; a further swap of draft choices locked in those that were previously conditional while allowing Johnson to keep three players.

When the smoke had cleared, the Cowboys gave up Herschel Walker, their 3rd and 10th round draft picks in 1990, San Diego’s 5th-round 1990 pick, and their own 3rd-round pick in 1991. In return, they got the following:

* LBs Jesse Solomon and David Howard

* CB Isaac Holt

* Minnesota’s 2nd and 6th round picks in 1990

* Minnesota’s two 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick in 1991

* Minnesota’s 2nd and 3rd round picks in 1992

* Minnesota’s 1st round pick in 1993

 

[Hastur]

I'm not entirely sure, and I'm not really committing to anything in particular, but I think I have some real feelings for you.

 

[Black]

I had no idea what a bust Herschel ended up being...here's an article from the SI Vault Nov 12, 1990. Herschel was already pretty much on the outs. There's some interesting commentary about owner Mike Lynn and why he may have made the horrible trade on page 6 of the article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/art...221/1/index.htm

 

[Black]

Man, this just keeps getting better. LYNN made the proposition!!

Great article I dug up here: http://cbs11tv.com/local/Herschel.Walker.T....2.1240425.html It also talks about Bill Walsh trading down until he had 14 total picks in the 1986 draft.

Johnson wanted three first-round picks, three second-rounders and three thirds. He almost had a deal with the Browns, but they lacked a first-rounder in '90, so the Cowboys kept shopping.

Lynn swooped in with an intriguing proposition: Five players, each with a first-, second- or third-round pick attached. The Cowboys could enjoy the talent upgrade for the rest of the season, then take either the player or the attached pick.

Johnson finagled an extra first-rounder. All along, he planned to keep both the players he liked and the picks.

"That's why at the press conference I said 'This is a great train robbery,"' he said recently. "Everybody looked at me like I was a complete fool, including Jerry, because they weren't sure we could pull this thing off."

Johnson limited the playing time of the ex-Vikings to keep coaches and fans from getting too attached. After the season, he told Lynn the Cowboys wanted a few of the players, but was cutting them all anyway. Lynn hung up.

It took a certified letter sent to the league office, with a copy to the Vikings, for Lynn to call back and work things out. Johnson gave him some other picks, which is how the trade grew to 18 players and picks, still the largest in league history.

 

[Andy Herron]

I think you've pretty well summed it up black. I have Jimmy Johnson's book "Turning The Thing Around" and chapter IV, titled "The Great Train Robbery," covers it pretty extensively. If there are any remaining questions about it, I can probably answer them via the book.

 

[JetMaxx]

Stupid Vikings....

 

[Sweet Love]

But in the end, it looks like it shook out to be Walker and Jake Reed for Smith, Woodson and Harper. Of course not that great, but not a heck of a lot better than Manning for Rivers Merriman and Kaeding. Lore makes it sound as though the entire Cowboys dynasty rested on that trade and in actuality, the best piece (Smith) came from another trade with the pick they acquired from Minny (via Pittsburgh). Again, a whopper of a one-sided deal, but still not as bad as I was led to believe before I read the post...nice data BTW.

 

[az_prof]

That trade along with the phony Drew Pearson catch in the 1975 NFC Conference Title Game will cause me to always hate the Cowboys. You can say the trade was bad, et cetera, but the truth is that the Cowboys are cheaters. They stole the conditional players and then the picks. If you say it was "legal"...good for you...slimeball lawyers do a lot of legal things but that doesn't make them admirable. It was legal alright but it was low down and dishonest. You can dress a pig up however you like but a pig is still a pig. And Jimmy Johnson is the dirtiest sort of pig.

 

[cobalt_27]

That trade along with the phony Drew Pearson catch in the 1975 NFC Conference Title Game will cause me to always hate the Cowboys. You can say the trade was bad, et cetera, but the truth is that the Cowboys are cheaters. They stole the conditional players and then the picks. If you say it was "legal"...good for you...slimeball lawyers do a lot of legal things but that doesn't make them admirable. It was legal alright but it was low down and dishonest. You can dress a pig up however you like but a pig is still a pig. And Jimmy Johnson is the dirtiest sort of pig.

So, anyway...back to the Cardinals returning to their pathetic ways. Err, wrong thread...I mean how the Vikings got hosed.

 

[JetMaxx]

That trade along with the phony Drew Pearson catch in the 1975 NFC Conference Title Game will cause me to always hate the Cowboys. You can say the trade was bad, et cetera, but the truth is that the Cowboys are cheaters. They stole the conditional players and then the picks. If you say it was "legal"...good for you...slimeball lawyers do a lot of legal things but that doesn't make them admirable. It was legal alright but it was low down and dishonest. You can dress a pig up however you like but a pig is still a pig. And Jimmy Johnson is the dirtiest sort of pig.

Well played. Any post involving the words "slimeball" and the "Cowboys" is in my book.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

That trade along with the phony Drew Pearson catch in the 1975 NFC Conference Title Game will cause me to always hate the Cowboys. You can say the trade was bad, et cetera, but the truth is that the Cowboys are cheaters. They stole the conditional players and then the picks. If you say it was "legal"...good for you...slimeball lawyers do a lot of legal things but that doesn't make them admirable. It was legal alright but it was low down and dishonest. You can dress a pig up however you like but a pig is still a pig. And Jimmy Johnson is the dirtiest sort of pig.

I truly hate the Cowboys.....but why doesn't the blame rest on the Vikings for being run by morons?

 

[Mentos]

And Jimmy Johnson is the dirtiest sort of pig.

And now he makes boner commercials.