This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
But they are always near the cap so I think this is more you don't like the way it's spent, but I don't think it's frugal. Strahan and Tiki made more than some small countries and then they went to having an all pro DL and having to reward their impressive OL and Eli had developed by then and...Their awesome young WR corps is going to want money soon and that'll be an issue.
Kordell Stewart had two decent seasons but was very inconsistent, even in his best seasons. 1997, his first year as a starter, was his best year when he threw 21 TDs. But he regressed so badly from 1998-2000 that Cowher had to resort to starting Mike Tomczak and Kent Graham.Kordell had a bounce back year in 2001 when he passed for over 3100 yards (but still only threw 14 TDs to 11 ints). But then in 2002 Kordell regressed again and was replaced by Maddox during the 2003 season. The one area where Kordell was NOT erractic was during the playoffs where his passer ratings for his four postseason starts were al lousy: 44.3, 41.6, 72.9 and 45.2 with 2 TDs and 8 INTs. The one thing you could count on was if the Steelers fell behind in the playoffs then Kordell wasn't bringing them back.Tommy Maddox did have a remarkable season in 2003 and did lead them to a comeback win over the Browns but he was done after that and finally Roethlisberger arrived on the scene.In any case my point was that for the majority of Cowher's tenure with the Steelers he was not blessed with great talent at QB. In fact I would be willing to bet that if Kordell Stewart had been the Patriots QB in 2001-2004 Bill Belichick would likely still be looking for his first Super Bowl ring.
On the other hand, if Belichick didn't exist, the Patriots never reach the heights they did, and I would be willing to bet Kordell Stewart has 1-2 super bowl rings.
I would be willing to bet that a guy like Belichick would never be so foolish as to go with Kordell Stewart as his starting QB for four straight seasons.
Eh? How do you figure that? Even if you assume the Steelers making the Super Bowl following the '01 season, the Steelers wouldn't have pulled off a miracle to beat that Rams team like NE did.
Frugal is not the best word I could of chosen and I used it only so as not to pollute the discussion. In the 25, or so, years that I have followed the Giants, partly in the way they handle their team, it seems to me that they rarely go the extra yard to complete the team. I always felt that by having the Meadowlands sold out and a 20+ year waiting list, that the owners reasoned; why spend 100%, when they would have the same revenue if they spent 90%. I can give you examples but they are purely conjecture. You say that maybe my feelings are more along the lines of "I don't care for how the money is spent", I disagree; I feel the Giants spend their money very well - too well. My analogy would be a world series talent level team with no closer; I guess occasionally you could win but most of the times you'll come up short. You cite the cap as the reason that they don't do more, and you would be correct in some instances, but the cap hasn't always been the issue. It has seemed to me over the years that they pride themselves in their ability to put together very good teams with less; and I think that this costs them. There is no way that a team who had George Young as their GM, could be described in any way other than "tight".How does this play out in regards to Cowher/Coughlin? I started this thread because I can see it going both ways; Coughlin has had his run and there is now a disconnect, he is older and will not be around the Giants for 5 more years, regardless, but as damaged goods, if you will, the Giants will be able to set terms to him - this is right in their M.O., as for Cowher, he gets to set terms to the Giants and generally NY does not go that route. In a purely football sense, I think that Cowher is the smart move but he isn't the cost effective move. A wild card in this all is, if the Giants make a Superbowl run this year, then Coughlin would be in the driver's seat; that might be as entertaining as another championship. My best guess with the the Giants is: the bottom line will be the bottom line.
G-Men weren't the only 10 Win team missing the playoffs this year
.As for Coughlin IMHO He'll be back next year but on VERY thin ice.
Rolle whiney doesn't show a team mutiny. The guy is whining about wanting to have more fun and the discipline angle he clearly doesn't get is a product of the coach. (below) He's a rookie, whaddya want?"I love New York," Rolle said. "I don't think I could have picked a better place to play. I love the atmosphere, I love the organization. I like the coach. I understand what he is trying to do. But he has to understand it is 2011. Things have changed.
Whoa Bri, are you Coughlin's son? The rest of the interview Phillips and him were throwing Coughlin under the bus by saying they would rather play for Rex Ryan. That has got to go over great with the Mara family; their team just got run out before the playoffs by playing like crap and their players are saying that they would rather play for a guy who coaches the team that plays in the same stadium as you and is heading to the AFC championship game - Sounds like a ringing endorsement. Rolle is a rookie? He carries more weight than that.
Seems to me they said they'd like Coughlin to be more like Ryan, that a coach like Rex would be fun to play for. They weren't throwing Coughlin under the bus as you stated. Rolle does need to shut-up. He's complaining, yet how much success has his former organization, the Cardinals had compared to the Coughlin run Giants. Coughlin's gotten more relaxed since Strahan was complaining in 2006. Beat writer Garafolo, commented several times that Coughlin's training camps have a reputation of being tough, but that rep isn't warranted. Many training camp practices were walk-throughs and in shells rather than full pads. And hitting is limited.
I don't think that I miss-characterized their statements. When one of your big free agent signings tells a radio station he personally likes the coach as a man but doesn't care for his coaching style, you have a problem. My view is this team didn't play particularly hard for himthis year or the year before and now the are vocalizing this to the media. If they didn't throw him under the bus, I don't know what they did. If one of your co-worker summarized you, to your bosses that way, would you be pleased?
Works wonders for Wade Phillips at each of his stops. Cable did outstanding. Jerry Glanville's personality reminds me of Ryan's and his last coaching gig was Portland State with a 9-24 record. Giants went 10-6, people saying the team collapsed are exaggerating the situation, most years that record is in the playoffs.I don't think there's a new breed of coach, rather than the cycle that's worked in the past. If your player's coach didn't get the job done then the next successful coach will be a disciplinarian and vice versa. Winning helps too, there's no complaints from Giants players when the teams winning. Rolle came from a relaxed team, now he's with a strict one, of course he's going to have gripes. If the Giants were still playing he probably wouldn't say anything. If Rolle came from a team that had a history of success I'd listen to his suggestion on how to improve the team. It's simple play better and the coach won't be on you as much, make mistakes and you get ridden. Play more like Revis and less like Cromartie and the coach might be nicer to you Antrel. This Giants team didn't play their best this year, leading the NFL in giveaways, and tons of injuries to WR & Oline, and they matched the best record the Cards had when Rolle was with them. I'll give Rolle the benefit of the doubt and chalk his comments up to his being frustrated of not making the playoffs this season and the losing with the Cards.
Cmon now, they also said Coughlin's a great guy, straightforward and whatever else. How is it that you can say you took the totality of their statements and didn't just focus on the negative? And the whole team mutiny is based upon this? That's not dramatic enough you have to ask me if I'm his son? I think this previous post is your point-you were looking to get reaffirmed your feeling that they quit on Coughlin. Clearly you ignore the myriad of injuries they went through and how they still were hanging on.
A totality of their statements (Phillips made them too) are what I'm looking at. Saying that he is a great stand-up guy, who doesn't know how to coach anymore, is not a positive review; period. You pin this year's failure to injuries, they got smoked by Green Bay; care to check the Packers injuries this year? Many players have had issues with his coaching style and I seem to recall a story of Coughlin searching out John Wooden to ask him how to get over the hump, only to be told to lighten up with his rules, by Wooden himself. Everyone is trumpeting 10-6 as an accomplishment, when obviously it was not good enough; six other teams in the NFC managed to do the same or better. The fact is they had two games, that if they won, would of got them in the playoffs; and lost them both. The Eagles game was a game where they either let up, or could not re-adjust to PHI's adjustment; this kind of leans to coaching. The Packer game was a debacle, where they were either unprepared or unmotivated; coaching again. I have stated that I am a Coughlin fan, and I am, but I am not a NYG ownership/front office fan. I think that the Giants, many times, go into seasons with gaping weaknesses that they refuse to address, as if they know better. I feel the disconnect that Coughlin is having with his players is another example of this and I wait for it to rear its ugly head next season. Does the Jint's front office give him the pieces to win next year; or is there going to be a divided front, where they let him stay and see if he can win with what he has? If it is this, I think it will be a lost season. I also believe, even though I think that Coughlin is a winning coach, that some new blood would get this team moving again. Finally, do not tell me that Cowher is an easy going, player's coach.
That's a fable.He read Wooden's books and admired the guy from afar, like so many of us he thought Wooden was a legend, a terrific example, the best coach ever etc. His wife or his daughter or some family member nudged him to call up Wooden and meet with him one time out in California after a game there. They met for hours and he sure did pick Wooden's brain some. Coughlin hasn't said a whole lot about the meeting and I don't imagine Wooden would even want him to. I grew up in NJ and I think it's the paper I read growing up-the Bergen Record- that ran this long story about it.That would be awfully brash and awfully uncharacteristic of the great Wooden to think that he told Coughlin how to do his job. Wooden shares his philosophies and hopes these younger guys take something from that like an old wise man or somesuch. I've heard so much junk about this ever since. Wooden diagramming plays, Wooden hollering at Coughlin, Wooden ...oh I mean cmon, Coughlin went to meet a guy he idolized when he was 95? years old. Some of the fables from that meeting are just laughable. If you showed me a link where some guy wrote that Wooden told Coughlin his boys should wear tight shorts and knee high socks I wouldn't be surprised.John Wooden's practices are some of the most well-known scripted practices in the history of sports. He had every drill, every little tiny thing planned out to take 2 minutes or 5 minutes etc. Not to mention on the court stuff-He was concerned with how the team dressed and even how they tied their shoes and wore their socks. The gift that is John Wooden is that he was able to present every little controlling detail as something that would benefit the person and/or the team. He even found a way to teach his boys about life with many of these things. He coached boys. Coughlin coaches men that are professionals. Good luck with that fable
But you still think (sorry I'm assuming and think it's as such) Rolle and to some degree Phillips are representative of 55 guys. You've made it where all 55 feel the same way and there's this mutiny. How about the fact that one of his players is his son-in-law? Do you think he's bucking old Tom?You're not getting Bill Parcells. You've got the guy that was on his staff. You're not getting the guy that he almost hired in Miami, the guy that he recommended for the Jets job, and the guy that he crossed a line with and gave coaching advice to this year. Giants fans are the only fans on this earth that would find fault with BB as their coach. Parcells hasn't coached the Gmen in like 20 years, move on already.
My recollection of this fable was from Coughlin himself, in a interview on FAN radio. Coughlin was the one who said what he took away from the meeting with Wooden, was to lighten up. The Wooden story is just another example of a well documented criticism of the coach. At the end of last season there was a question of whether Coughlin should return, that has only grown through this season, my guess is next year it will become a complete distraction ending up in a wasted season. I hope I am wrong and I still believe the Coughlin is an able coach, but if the players won't play for him, it is all moot. The Giants (and you) seem so willing to always stand pat and wait to show everyone that they are right, while season after season, slip away. The NYGs always seem to build their teams as "good enough", rather than "all catagories addressed". How would you describe the last two seasons; successful, productive, building on something, almost there, or more like let something slip away or even an outright disaster. Every team in their division had a quaterback change this year with the division winner having two; why should it be acceptable that they could not win their division. We live in an age of NFL parity, a team has to do something to distinguish themselves from pack. Do you have any reason to believe that Dallas, Washington, or Philadelphia are going to be getting worse next year? Do you have any reason to believe that the Giants are going to get better, when it is going to be more of the same? This season was the season that they were going to recommit themselves, after their NOR disaster of 2009. Remember Mara saying that season was unacceptable; well apparently it is acceptable because they just had the same one and retained their coach. I have no agenda to run Coughlin out of town but I get frustrated watching the Giants constantly forcing the square peg in the round hole. You like Coughlin, and that is fine, he is a good coach but where will your feelings lay if they have another no play-off year, next season; would you resign him? Who is going to be out there to get? My point the risk/reward lies in favor of Cowher but I know that the Giants will not spring for him when they can get Coughlin at a discount.
Who the hell wants Parcells, he hasn't won anything in 20+ years. If I was starting, or rebuilding a franchise Parcells would be the type I want. Cowher seems to me to solve some problems with the players. You know, as well as I, that there has been more criticism of Coughlin, then just Rolle and Phillips. Stop guessing at what my points are and just read my posts. Forget for a second Coughlin's pedigree and look at his recent results; he was on the chopping block when he pulled out the superbowl. TC deserves all the accolades that comes with that but the Giants are a damn good team that is under performing. Winning solves a lot of problems and, unfortunately, Coughlin just isn't getting the job done. It is also pretty laughable to compare Coughlin to Bill Belichick.
Your argument is ridiculous. The team was better than last year. Last year the defense was terrible most of the season, this season the defense was improved. The Colts game, that's on the game plan, they prepared for the pass and the Colts ran all over them. The Titans game is on the players and so are the break downs in the Philly games. They finished 10-6, second in the division, the same record and division finish when they won the 2007 Super Bowl. You argue Philly had a QB change, implying that the Giants couldn't overcome that. The Eagles QB change wasn't like the 49ers, switching from Alex Smith to Troy Smith, the Eagles switched to a QB that was playing at potential league MVP level. The LB position wasn't solved, in hindsight perhaps they should have pursued Karlos Dansby harder, the Giants thought Sintim could develop into a starter. Rolando McClain was the only LB the Giants liked in the 1st round of the draft and he got taken by the Raiders, the next LB on their board was Dillard, who they eventually drafted. Could they have traded up to get McClain sure, but it wasn't certain that he was going to get taken before their pick and they like JPP a lot. I don't blame them for taking JPP, it was a risk but I like what he's shown and if he continues to make strides, the Giants won't miss a step when Osi eventually retires. They brought in Bullock to form what they thought would be a serviceable while not exciting LB core. With the strength of the DLine, the depth and development of the secondary they probably thought they could compensate for the weakness at LB. In the past the Giants tried fixing their LB's through FAs and it failed, Pierce was the only one that stuck, Emmons and Arrington didn't live up to expectations and Boley hasn't been as good as hoped, so I don't blame Reese for not reaching and breaking the bank like Dan Snyder does. You claim the Giants don't do anything to improve, yet their WR core, though heavily injured this season, was rebuilt quickly after Plax went to jail. That was done through the draft and I believe they plan to do the same for the LBs.Cowher is just a grass is greener thing. I don't see that he's definitively an improvement over Coughlin. Add if Cowher would want to switch to a 3-4, that could set the team back a few years.Seems Rolle is the one making comments, my read on Phillips is he's getting sucked in by hanging out with his buddy Rolle, otherwise he wouldn't be making any comments.
(snipped)Well at least someone finally prepared for that new QB on the Colts
My argument is not ridiculous. If you want to believe that the Giants are playing up to their potential, so be it, but I don't agree. If you want to say that the Giants players are letting the coach down, well that falls on the coach. Vick playing like a MVP was impressive but he wasn't the Eagles starting QB this year and had exactly 15 pass attempts since the 2006 season to start this season; not to mention he was hurt for three games (four, if you count the game he was hurt in their first possession). That is four games Vick wasn't in there, one quarter of the season. Thank god Vick wasn't in the division in 2007. How does a coach like Reid finish with three division championships and five play-off appearances during TC tenure? Coughlin doesn't have these numbers. I will agree that Coughlin has the Superbowl, and that is the trump card, but besides that year he does not have a play-off win with the Giants. You and Bri, keep trumpeting 10-6 but if Romo was healthy, there is a good chance the Giants would be 9-7. It isn't like they had a particularly difficult schedule; Tenessee, Washington, Detriot, and Carolina. About the only game that stands out as impressive was the Chicago game. As far as the Indy game, I guess the Colts cheated by changing their game plan; Coughlin should try it some time. Those 92 rushing yards must of been a back breaker, by Addai. I don't know what you guys want, either the Giants aren't good or the coaching is sub-par, I don't think that injuries can be counted, as everyone in the division dealt with them. I will agree whole-heartedly with the statement I highlighted above. I do not think that Cowher is better than Coughlin, just a change of scenery - that I think the Giants might need.netnalp said:
Last time I checked, Arizona made the playoffs the last 2 years he was there, and the Giants missed the playoffs this season. Maybe he is just frustrated at that fact?
