Countdown To The Top Pick In The 2014 Draft (1 Viewer)

[JaxBill]

Wonder how much Carr killed his draft stock with that showing on Saturday.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I'm not sure why StL's situation fascinates me so much this year, but they're the team I always find myself thinking about draft possibilities for. Unless they can get a bounty for the 1.2 pick, I'm thinking Andy might be correct in mocking Watkins to them with their first pick. If they could get Watkins and, say, Lewan with their two first rounders, that'd be an instant upgrade at both positions.

wouldnt they try and trade back if that was there plan. I am sure there will be a few teams coveting Clowney or maybe one of the top QB's.

I agree. Taking Watkins at 1.2 is a reach. They should be able to easily trade that pick to a team drooling over Clowney, Barr or a QB.

i have seen OAK (1.4) linked with watkins, but that is just speculation, maybe informed conjecture. we could make an equally strong case for a blue chip defender like clowney or barr, or a QB.

so if STL has their heart set on watkins, it might be risky to drop below OAK. with the feared torn ACL injury to LT jake long, that could alter their draft plans, in the direction of LT matthews (if they weren't leaning that way already). ATL (1.6) and TB (1.7) might make sense as destinations for the LT. maybe the rams won't be locked into a player, and if they are OK with watkins or matthews (they might be able to get a WR like evans or LT like those from michigan, alabama, auburn and florida state later?), that increases the chance they would be comfortable sliding down 2-3 spots to about 1.5-1.6. note that if teams like OAK or ATL want to move up to 1.2 (?), it would probably be for a player like clowney (or possibly a QB in OAKs case) which would reduce the risk of losing watkins trading places with OAK, or matthews trading paces with ATL. snead came from ATL, which could facilitate a trade (they made one with the second of their first round picks in the 2013 draft).

ideally, STL could drop from 1.2 (if that spot holds through the last game) to about 1.4-1.5, add anywhere from a second and a third to maybe CLE's two firsts (i'm starting to think that would only happen if they were moving up to get bridgewater at 1.1 or 1.2, if HOU takes clowney, and even that is uncertain), than...

if they get watkins, add one of the other LTs with the mid-first (i like robinson a lot, huge upside, but he hasn't declared)... recommending this is that the gap between matthews and robinson may be less than that between watkins and evans? in fact, robinson could have higher upside than matthews, he just is raw and a bit untested in pass protection, but a dominant run blocker (which come to think of it, might be a better fit for fisher and the rams emerging smashmouth offensive identity). they might need to trade up from the mid-first for a LT of their liking, which they could pay for with one of the picks they could scoop up moving down from 1.2 to 1.4-1.5. in 2013, they mirrored the eight pick move up for austin from 1.16 to 1.8, with an eight pick move down for ogletree from 1.22 to 1.30.

if they add matthews, add evans with the mid-first. matthews has much to recommend him. while not as fast or explosive, evans has superior size to watkins and would make an excellent complement to austin and bailey. he reminds some scouts of vincent jackson, but i don't think he will run as well.

i like what is behind door number one (watkins/LT), because there are more LTs that could fit on the back end of this two pick sequence or permutation, whereas with door number two (matthews/evans), there is more risk evans is gone?

some OL thoughts with jake long injured late in the year and maybe not available to start the 2014 season (PUP list candidate?). i think his salary is guaranteed for the first two years, so wouldn't make sense to cut him.

re-sign saffold. he is more valuable to the team than center wells AND guard dahl combined. where else are they going to get an OL (in free agency or the draft) that has pro bowl guard upside, but has the athleticism and smarts to be a swing tackle, who can fill in for as long as needed while jake long recuperates. even if they do draft a LT of the future (matthews or one of the other candidates noted above), with long maybe getting prematurely old and breaking down and saffold's more natural position looking like guard, it would remove the pressure to necessarily use the first pick on one (freeing them up to take watkins), or to start them immediately. barksdale is a very solid bookend RT to long or saffold or some LT of the future. barrett jones is waiting in the wings to fill in at center or guard (if not for lis-franc foot fracture, he might have been drafted in the second or third round, one of the best interior OL in the 2012 draft after cooper and warmack, and even more positional versatility than saffold, having played every position on the line at alabama - though, like saffold, more natural on the inside). that frees the team up to release wells and dahl. wells is hurt too much anyways to justify his salary (missed the first seven of 2012, last six of 2013?), and both are approaching mid-30s with little to no upside. if they don't add a LT in the draft (if they resign saffold, jake long returns to form, they have barksdale, that gives them three), they could add an interior OL prospect like baylor guard cyril richardson (they would have taken warford if ogletree had been gone at 1.30 in the 2013 draft). i think re-signing saffold is the key, though, due to his versatility to cover for long on an interim basis and upside on the inside. this should be doable, as resigning him (and the presence of jones) makes wells and dahl expendable.

 

[Cheesedawg]

Early Look At The NFL Draft (by position, based on interviews with three personnel execs)...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/early-look-at-the-nfl-draft-b99168238z1-236899801.html

Early look at the NFL draft

By Bob McGinn of the Journal Sentinel

Dec. 21, 2013 9:33 p.m.

Here is a look at how the National Football League draft of 2014 is shaping up based on interviews with three executives in personnel last week. As of early last week, a total of 201 underclassmen had requested evaluations from the NFL's College Advisory Committee. They have until Jan. 15 to declare for the draft.

RECEIVERS

The last draft with more than four first-round wide receivers was 2009. After two below-average to poor wideout drafts, this one should be much better.

"Hypothetically, there are seven first-round projections," one scout said.

Juniors Sammy Watkins (6-1, 205) of Clemson, Odell Beckham (5-11, 193) of Louisiana State and Marqise Lee (6-0, 195) of Southern California, and redshirt sophomores Mike Evans (6-5, 225) of Texas A&M and Kelvin Benjamin (6-5, 225) of Florida State head the list.

"Very average as a senior group," said another scout. "The juniors will enhance every position. When you start to see these redshirt sophomores and juniors come out in droves like they have, you're going to rely on them for a draft."

Watkins has 4.35-second speed in the 40-yard dash and excellent hands.

"True playmaker and he's a returner as well," one scout said of Watkins." Lee will be one of the top players in the draft. Very good speed. He was injured a lot this year and didn't have quite the numbers you're looking for, but he's a top-10 pick."

Evans had 65 receptions for 1,322 yards (20.3) and 12 touchdowns.

"More of a strider but very sure-handed," one scout said. "He's got phenomenal size. He understands how to use his size to post up."

Beckham is a precise route runner with superb skill after the catch. Benjamin is talented but raw.

Wisconsin's Jared Abbrederis (6-1, 190) is going to the Senior Bowl after a 73-catch season. He scored 32 on the Wonderlic intelligence test.

"He's going to be drafted in the third or fourth round but will be a competitive player from Day 1," one scout said. "If he goes to Denver or New England, he may catch 80 balls in his rookie year. He runs good routes. He'll be a slot receiver."

Juniors Eric Ebron (6-4, 245) of North Carolina, Austin Seferian-Jenkins (6-6, 276) of Washington and Jace Amaro (6-5, 260) of Texas Tech all have first-round shots at tight end.

"Ebron's a really good athlete," one scout said. "Can run. Outstanding hands. Can run after the catch. He's your receiving tight end. Antonio Gates-like."

Seferian-Jenkins tends to be more of a receiver as well but has the size to grow into a blocker.

"He's going to be close to (Rob) Gronkowski, talent-wise," one scout said. "Now he's lazy. Like there's always something with him. But he can be on the line and block."

Iowa's C.J. Fiedorowicz (6-5½, 265) might be the best senior and should be gone by the third round.

Colt Lyerla (6-5, 250) was arrested for cocaine possession in October several weeks after leaving Oregon as a junior.

"He's the wild card in this whole thing," one scout said. "Extremely talented kid. Is he going to be the Aaron Hernandez kind of player, a first-round talent that somebody got in the fourth? But just a real nightmare in that regard (off the field)."

OFFENSIVE LINE

Personnel men don't see a franchise left tackle in the draft but it's still another strong, deep position.

"There's probably five tackles that can go in the first round," one scout said. "Six if you factor in the Auburn kid.

"Everybody knows what they get with Jake Matthews. (Cyrus) Kouandjio is a good player. Taylor Lewan's a good player. The other tackle (Cedric Ogbuehi) from Texas A&M is a good player. They're all first-rounders."

Matthews (6-4½, 305) is a four-year starter who moved from RT to LT this season. His father, Bruce, was a Hall of Fame offensive lineman.

"Good, not a great athlete," one scout said. "Really good technician. He's a little soft. Not that he won't be a really good player."

Michigan's Lewan (6-6½, 315) is aggressive, sometimes overly so. Alabama's Kouandjio (6-5, 320), a junior, has extremely long arms and is an outstanding pass blocker.

"The Alabama guy still makes raw mistakes," said one scout. "He's got more up side than Matthews. I think he's smart. He just doesn't have much football background."

Ogbuehi (6-5, 300), another junior, might have played better at guard in 2012 before moving to RT. "This is a left tackle in the league," one scout said.

The "Auburn kid" is Greg Robinson (6-5, 315), a redshirt sophomore. After turning in a superb performance against Missouri's Kony Ealy on Dec.7, he might become one of the first offensive linemen to enter the NFL as a redshirt sophomore.

"He's a stud," said one scout. "Left tackle. You're talking about a ton of athleticism, size, strength. He's not getting a lot of attention because people don't realize he's a redshirt. Not quite sure why (Gene) Chizik redshirted him. I think that was a big mistake. He's in the top 10, 15 easy if he comes out."

Iowa junior Brandon Scherff (6-5½, 320) would be another first- or second-round pick if he declares. He'll be a better guard, according to one scout. Junior Antonio Richardson (6-6, 327) of Tennessee isn't consistent but might be a late first-round choice.

Of the guard and center group, one scout said: "I don't think there's any great players inside. It's not like last year."

Senior Zack Martin (6-4, 305) of Notre Dame is solid. "Athletic, strong, understands the game," said one scout.

Mississippi State senior Gabe Jackson (6-3, 340) is a road-grader. "He's not too far off the guards that went first (round) last year," said one scout.

Senior Cyril Richardson (6-4½, 335) played in a two-point stance at Baylor but is athletic enough to adjust. Stanford junior David Yankey (6-5, 314) might not be physical enough. UCLA junior Xavier Su'a-Filo (6-3, 305) played tackle but projects inside.

Probably the top center is Colorado State's Weston Richburg (6-3½, 302). He's a second-round pick.

QUARTERBACKS

With Oregon's Marcus Mariota deciding to return, it looks like a four-way contest to be the first passer taken among senior Derek Carr of Fresno State (6-2½, 215), juniors Teddy Bridgewater (6-3, 205) of Louisville and Blake Bortles (6-3, 230) of Central Florida, and redshirt sophomore Johnny Manziel (5-11, 210) of Texas A&M.

Others in the picture are seniors AJ McCarron (6-3½, 214) of Alabama, Tajh Boyd (6-0½, 225) of Clemson and Zach Mettenberger (6-5, 235) of LSU.

"You've got to pick and choose what flavor you want," one scout said. "Do you want the pocket passer? That's Bortles, McCarron, Mettenberger.

"Or do you want the athlete in Manziel or Bridgewater? There will probably be three in the first. Depends what people think of Johnny Manziel."

Manziel, who beat Alabama in winning the Heisman Trophy in 2012, was compared by one scout to Hall of Fame scrambler Fran Tarkenton. There are character issues, however, that will put off some teams.

"He reminds me a little bit of (Joe) Montana," one scout said. "Fluid, and even though he's off-balance he can get the ball out. He's a smaller guy but he has big hands for a little guy. He's fun to watch."

Bridgewater can throw from the pocket and is an adequate runner. "Not even close to Cam Newton," one scout said. "Skinny son of a buck. He's not as dynamic a runner as everybody thinks."

Carr's brother, David, was the first pick in the 2002 draft.

"Tougher than his brother," said one scout. "Pretty athletic. Great arm talent. Even though he hasn't thrown many interceptions he's a little erratic in his decision-making."

McCarron, said one scout, "has won a bunch of games but doesn't have a great arm." Mettenberger blew out his knee Nov. 29.

RUNNING BACKS

One scout said Wisconsin's Melvin Gordon (6-1, 210), a redshirt sophomore, would have been the first back taken before his decision Friday to go back to school.

"Oh, (expletive)," the scout said Saturday after being informed that Gordon was off the board. "He was first-round good. He's like (the Chargers') Ryan Mathews."

Earlier in the week, an NFC scout said he could see Gordon being the first back selected but probably not until the second round. An AFC personnel man called Gordon a second-round pick.

Minus Gordon, it's possible there won't be a first-round running back. There was just one in 1984 and 2011. Green Bay's Eddie Lacy would be the first selected if he had returned for a final season at Alabama, one scout said.

"Going into the year I was worried about the running back group," said one scout. "I still am."

Who will be the first to go?

"Could be a lot of guys," one scout replied. "Could be Carlos Hyde. Could be Ka'Deem Carey. Could be Charles Sims (of West Virginia). Could be Tre Mason. They're all packed together."

Arizona's Carey (5-10, 207) rushed for 1,716 yards (5.3), Auburn's Mason (5-9, 205) rushed for 1,621 (5.7) and Ohio State's Hyde (5-11½, 238) rushed for 1,408 (7.7).

"Hyde's a good player," said one scout. "Just the stuff you hear, you worry about his work ethic."

Carey is an undersized power back with off-field issues as well.

DEFENSIVE LINE

Junior defensive end Jadeveon Clowney (6-5, 274) of South Carolina has been compared to Buffalo's Mario Williams and Chicago's Julius Peppers as a pure talent.

"He's got it all," one scout said. "Now, the question is, what's underneath the hood? That's the $1 million question everybody will look into."

Said another scout: "He doesn't play hard all the time. In college, he'd get three guys on him every play. He's still able to make plays whenever he wants to. He might be the first pick."

The best of the base ends might be Notre Dame junior Stephon Tuitt (6-6, 312). "Probably can play in any scheme," one scout said. "Young kid. Versatile athlete. Just growing into his large frame. He's a first-rounder."

Undersized pass rushers Trent Murphy (6-5, 261) of Stanford, Demarcus Lawrence (6-3, 245) of Boise State, Chris Smith (6-2½, 268) of Arkansas and Trevor Reilly (6-4½, 255) of Utah will start coming into play late in the first round.

"Murphy led the nation in sacks (14)," one scout said. "He played down but he's really an outside backer. Lawrence can rush the passer. Riley is a tweener."

Riley's age (26) will hurt him. Smith had 8½ sacks as an end in a 4-3 defense but might be better served standing up in a 3-4. Ealy (6-5, 275) came on late in the season and appears able to fit either scheme.

Notre Dame junior Louis Nix (6-2, 345), described by one scout as the "prototypical nose tackle," looks like a late first-round pick.

"There's not a lot of big beef," said one scout. "That's why Nix will go high."

Minnesota's Ra'Shede Hageman (6-5½, 311) will try to dispel impressions that he's inconsistent and an off-field risk at the Senior Bowl.

"He's had a really good year," one scout said. "This kid kind of came out of nowhere. When he wants to crank it up he's hard to block at that level. He's a big man with a lot of ability. He would benefit big-time from going to the Senior Bowl and kicking (expletive) for a week."

Senior Will Sutton (5-11½, 330) of Arizona State put on too much weight this season.

"He's probably a little bit puffy," one scout said. "He's got the natural leverage and pretty good balance and pretty good feet. But you've got to worry about his arm length."

Several players fit the mold of three-technique tackles for 4-3 defenses, including senior Aaron Donald (6-0½, 285) of Pittsburgh, junior Timmy Jernigan (6-2, 298) of Florida State and senior Dominique Easley (6-1½, 285) of Florida.

Easley underwent reconstructive knee surgery Oct. 24. It was his second major knee injury.

Donald led the country in tackles for loss with 26½.

"All Donald does is produce," one scout said. "The old Colts, the old Bucs, they'd like him. But not a lot of people run that anymore. They're going to run right at him when he comes in the game."

LINEBACKERS

Alabama senior middle linebacker C.J. Mosley (6-2½, 232) is the pick of the litter at inside linebacker.

"Probably more (weak side) in the NFL but he could play inside in a 3-4," one scout said. "Extremely smart. Explosive. Fast. An all-intangible type kid. I think coaches are going to fall in love with him.

"But, outside of Mosley, the rest of them (inside) are kind of thumper types."

Junior Denzel Perryman (6-0, 240) of Miami was regarded as a little better athlete and a better player than former "U" middle linebacker Jon Beason, a seven-year NFL starter.

Florida State senior Christian Jones (6-3½, 240) can run. Tennessee junior A.J. Johnson (6-2, 243) is talented and productive but there are questions about his ability to handle an NFL system.

Wisconsin's Chris Borland (5-11½, 246) is regarded as a much better prospect than Michigan State's Max Bullough (6-2½, 245).

"He's the grandson of Hank Bullough," said one scout, referring to the Packers' defensive coordinator from 1988-'91. "Try-hard overachiever. Typical Big Ten guy.

"There will be teams that fall in love with Chris Borland. Everybody will compare him to that (Chris Spielman). Truth be told, he's short still. He may be a dinosaur at the end of the day."

Borland has run 40 yards in 4.85 seconds. Bullough's time was 4.80.

UCLA senior Anthony Barr (6-3, 248) has 10 sacks and 20 tackles for loss. He's a top-10 pick.

"The guy was a running back until two years ago," one scout said. "Really athletic. He's got pass-rush ability. Some of the toughness stuff is still not there but a great kid, great effort."

Next on the list outside is Buffalo senior Khalil Mack (6-2½, 248), a four-year starter.

"He's better than Barr," said one scout. "He does everything there. He can do whatever he wants. Buffalo was the only team that recruited him."

Clemson junior Vic Beasley (6-2, 235) and Brigham Young senior Kyle Van Noy (6-3, 235) are hybrids that could fit either scheme.

"Beasley was on fire with the sacks early and kind of leveled off," one scout said. "He'll have to be an outside backer or maybe a situational pass rusher.

"You don't want to love Van Noy when you watch him. But then you look at the stat line and all he does is have production."

Ohio State junior Ryan Shazier (6-2, 230) is a classic "will" linebacker in a 4-3.

"I don't think he's as tough as Lavonte David but he's going to be faster," said one scout. "He runs like a deer. You'd have to think about him over Mosley. Mosley's a better player (now) but Shazier could be rare."

DEFENSIVE BACKS

At least one cornerback has been selected among the top 20 picks in every draft since 2001.

"Is there a great corner this year?" one scout said. "The guy from Michigan State and the guy from Oklahoma State and the guy from Ohio State are pretty good. But they're 20 to 50."

The Spartans' Darqueze Dennard (5-11, 197), a senior, and the Cowboys' Justin Gilbert (5-11½, 200), another senior, both play mostly press coverage.

"Dennard's game really improved as the season's gone along," one scout said. "Got some size. Gilbert has some size, ball skills. He's just a solid player."

The Buckeyes' Bradley Roby (5-11, 192) a junior, should work out well at the combine, where his character issues also will be scrutinized.

"You've got to do your homework on him," said one scout. "But he's an explosive, fast player. Can play man or zone."

Oregon junior Ifo Ekpre-Olomu (5-10, 185), Virginia Tech senior Kyle Fuller (5-11½, 194) and Florida junior Loucheiz Purifoy (6-0, 190) are next in line.

"This is not going to be a great corner group," one scout said. "It really isn't. There's really no dynamic corner this year."

After teams relished picking from a top-notch safety group in April, this class is inferior.

The best bet to make the first round as a safety is Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (6-1, 208), a junior from Alabama.

"He's OK," one scout said. "Tough guy. Pretty instinctive. Just kind of stiff. I'm not sure he's going to run real well."

Lamarcus Joyner (5-8, 190), a senior from Florida State, played safety as a junior and cornerback as a senior.

"Flies around a little like Bob Sanders and blows people up," said one scout. "Little stiff for corner but there's (teams) where they can get away with it. He might be the first safety to go."

Florida State senior Terrence Brooks (5-10½, 200) could be off the board next, but several scouts projected him to the third round.

Bob McGinn is the best and most credible writer in pro football. Thanks for posting this piece. Very informative.

 

[cstu]

Minus Gordon, it's possible there won't be a first-round running back. There was just one in 1984 and 2011. Green Bay's Eddie Lacy would be the first selected if he had returned for a final season at Alabama, one scout said.

"Going into the year I was worried about the running back group," said one scout. "I still am."

Who will be the first to go?

"Could be a lot of guys," one scout replied. "Could be Carlos Hyde. Could be Ka'Deem Carey. Could be Charles Sims (of West Virginia). Could be Tre Mason. They're all packed together."

Not even a mention of Seastrunk?

 

[lod01]

Wonder how much Carr killed his draft stock with that showing on Saturday.

Someone will still make the fatal mistake of tabbing the guy as their franchise QB.

 

[Bob Magaw]

a pre-season scouting report from walter football on LT jake matthews (index to more players at the bottom of all these individual profiles)...

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014jmatthews.php

WR sammy watkins...

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014swatkins.php

DE clowney...

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014jclowney.php

FS cinton-dix...

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014hclintondix.php

 

[Bob Magaw]

Minus Gordon, it's possible there won't be a first-round running back. There was just one in 1984 and 2011. Green Bay's Eddie Lacy would be the first selected if he had returned for a final season at Alabama, one scout said.

"Going into the year I was worried about the running back group," said one scout. "I still am."

Who will be the first to go?

"Could be a lot of guys," one scout replied. "Could be Carlos Hyde. Could be Ka'Deem Carey. Could be Charles Sims (of West Virginia). Could be Tre Mason. They're all packed together."

Not even a mention of Seastrunk?

where would seastrunk fit into the class of 2013? no first rounder in that class.

 

[pantherclub]

WR sammy watkins...

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014swatkins.php

Maybe its me but I dont see any Percy Harvin in Watkins. Watkins seems more fluid and has better control. Almost similar to Torry Holt.

 

[cstu]

WR sammy watkins...

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014swatkins.php

Maybe its me but I dont see any Percy Harvin in Watkins. Watkins seems more fluid and has better control. Almost similar to Torry Holt.

Torry Holt is who Lee reminds me of.

 

[Bob Magaw]

WR sammy watkins...

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014swatkins.php

Maybe its me but I dont see any Percy Harvin in Watkins. Watkins seems more fluid and has better control. Almost similar to Torry Holt.

i've heard both points before (good observations, BTW, thanks). harvin's explosiveness when healthy is extremely rare, among the best i've ever seen at RB or WR, since he plays both. they were both track athletes and very fast in addition to being quick (as most people realize, there is a difference between speed and quickness, and they have both).

i'm pretty sure rams fans would take the holt comp.

one thing about holt and bruce, and i assume it came from WR coach at the time henry ellard, is if they caught the ball on an intermediate route in the middle of the field and a DB came up to tackle them, they would hit the carpet. which may have extended their career (though holt actually didn't have a long career, but had it cut short by balky knees... i think bruce was better for longer), but to me was kind of like jim brown's criticism of franco harris running out of bounds. i'm pretty sure watkins is going to be stronger after the catch (and harvin is very strong after the catch, so i can see that resemblance). what holt was a master of (and he was a total package, pretty good size for the time, very good speed, exceptional hands, obviously being surround by the likes of bruce, faulk, hakim, warner helped tremendously), was route running, and specifically, not having any tells... he always ran his route stem exactly the same way, he didn't have to gather himself to change directions, and he could cut at full speed. so, i wouldn't expect watkins to be that kind of a master route runner and technician right off the bat, if ever. but a lot of scouts said deandre hopkins was one of the most technically advanced and skilled WRs in the draft (with keenan allen?), so that is encouraging that maybe watkins got good coaching at clemson, as well as a good example from his former teammate.

* watkins had 32 carries in 2011, so i can see the harvin comparison there, at least functionally, in terms of being used as a multitasking RB out of the backfield as well.

 

[Bob Magaw]

three round mock from walter football's charlie campbell, updated 12-20 (doesn't reflect the few latest changes in the order, but relatively current). he was a former senior writer of the pewter report.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

three rounder from walt, last updated 12-18. different enough for comparison purposes.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php

 

[pantherclub]

three round mock from walter football's charlie campbell, updated 12-20 (doesn't reflect the few latest changes in the order, but relatively current). he was a former senior writer of the pewter report.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

Dont the Browns have more gaping holes then to spend a top 10 pick on a #2 wr?

 

[MAC_32]

three round mock from walter football's charlie campbell, updated 12-20 (doesn't reflect the few latest changes in the order, but relatively current). he was a former senior writer of the pewter report.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

Dont the Browns have more gaping holes then to spend a top 10 pick on a #2 wr?

no, the browns have the foundation for a winner with a qb and another wr.

 

[simmonjm]

Cowboys picking a OLB, DT, and DE. Sign me up

 

[Bob Magaw]

three round mock from walter football's charlie campbell, updated 12-20 (doesn't reflect the few latest changes in the order, but relatively current). he was a former senior writer of the pewter report.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

Dont the Browns have more gaping holes then to spend a top 10 pick on a #2 wr?

where do you see the biggest holes?

josh gordon was the best WR in football after the two game suspension (calvin johnson included). add watkins to that? all i can say is, ouch for AFC north secondaries. greg little has disappointed as a WR2, but what if he was a WR3 with gordon and watkins (actually it really wouldn't matter with the primary two starters, but just a thought). i could probably win at QB with those WRs. and they also have jordan cameron at TE. trading away trent richardson ended up being a stroke of genius. ex-PHI RB dion lewis (broke some of shady mccoy's records at Pitt, who in turn i think broke some of tony dorsett's records) was looking great in the preseason and should be back. they do need a QB, and maybe that is the direction they go if they think a QB like a bortles or manziel is a star (they have the ammo to move up if they want to, but if they have a lot of holes, that maybe recommends not paying two picks for one player, unless they are confident he is very special). i don't know their OL situation well enough to speak to that, other than that joe thomas is a serial all pro LT. they focused on defense in 2013 by using a top 10 pick on pass rusher mingo, and adding the BAL OLB kruger (who admittedly had a disappointing first season and didn't yield much bang for the buck). phil taylor is a load at NT. they have needed an upgraded CB opposite haden for a few years, but i don't think there is one that would be close to worth a top 5 pick, unless they trade down. they could lose safety T.J. ward in free agency, that is a tough call, because he has been hurt a lot, but at his best is talented. if i were CLE, i'd try and retain him, but they will have figured that out by the draft. ILB d'qwell jackson is 30, but he can still play, and no candidate there either at that position that would be worthy of such a high pick. LBs can be found later... probably the two best LBs this year were alonso in the second and ogletree in the late first... last year, bobby wagner and lavonte david went in the mid and late second.

to me, watkins makes a ton of sense (hope the rams get him). they could have gordon and watkins for years, and that would be one of the best WRs tandems in the NFL. QB would make sense, too, but they shouldn't just get one to get one, if they are building for the long term. only if they think he has the potential to be a difference maker. another option is to get a QB like mccarron in the second or third round, and maybe he could be for them, like what mccown was filling in for CHI (aaron murray could be a starter, and may present very good value coming off a torn ACL, maybe dropping to day three... same with LSU QB mettenberger, who at one time was thought to be a possible first or second rounder).

 

[Bob Magaw]

Wonder how much Carr killed his draft stock with that showing on Saturday.

a comparison of the respective performances by carr and marqise lee in the bowl game... BTW, haven't seen this brought up in the context of carr's physical stature, but bracie brought up bridgewater's wraith-like frame at 6'3" and i think a listed 208 lbs (though if you look, you can find three or four different listed weights for him that are all over the place - but the consensus seems to be that he is on the thin side). just noticed carr is a listed 6'3" 205, so roughly similar dimensions. for what it is worth, his older brother, former #1 overall bust david (who may have been broken taking record breaking sack numbers in HOU) is a listed 6'3" 215 lbs. so maybe he will fill out as he physically matures and develops... and maybe he has a better frame to do so than bridgewater?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000301468/article/derek-carr-marqise-lee-showcase-skills-in-las-vegas-bowl

* the carr brothers final seasons at fresno st. seem eerily similar (derek a bit more accurate)...

david carr (344 of 533, 64.5% completion percentage, 4,839 yards & 46/9 TD/INT ratio, also 5 rushing TDs)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carr

derek carr (424 of 605, 70.1% completion percentage, 4,866 & 50/7 TD/INT ratio)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Carr_(American_football)

 

[Houston turmOiler]

We have a local radio guy (John Harris1560AM) that played in college with O'Brien and doesn't think we are going to be able to land him. Says he is friends with him still and actually trying to convince him to come down here but doesn't think it will happen. Feels like the buyout, unfinished business at Penn State, and a good job off the beaten path will keep him from moving.

I know it sounds like a Ferris Bueller 31 flavors kind of thing so take it FWIW. Harris is actually pretty well respected for his football knowledge and is best friends with Lance Zierlien (another good local source). They work together on a site called thesidelineview I believe. Lance has even had Sigmund Bloom on the radio a few times down here.

Again take it for FWIW but I thought I'd at least share....

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1569/texans-offense

Seems to be a little more smoke surrounding O'Brien and the Texans the last few days....I'd love to hear what Harris says about, if I hear anything I'll pass it along

 

[Bob Magaw]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

 

[Bri]

Wonder how much Carr killed his draft stock with that showing on Saturday.

a comparison of the respective performances by carr and marqise lee in the bowl game... BTW, haven't seen this brought up in the context of carr's physical stature, but bracie brought up bridgewater's wraith-like frame at 6'3" and i think a listed 208 lbs (though if you look, you can find three or four different listed weights for him that are all over the place - but the consensus seems to be that he is on the thin side). just noticed carr is a listed 6'3" 205, so roughly similar dimensions. for what it is worth, his older brother, former #1 overall bust david (who may have been broken taking record breaking sack numbers in HOU) is a listed 6'3" 215 lbs. so maybe he will fill out as he physically matures and develops... and maybe he has a better frame to do so than bridgewater?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000301468/article/derek-carr-marqise-lee-showcase-skills-in-las-vegas-bowl

* the carr brothers final seasons at fresno st. seem eerily similar (derek a bit more accurate)...

david carr (344 of 533, 64.5% completion percentage, 4,839 yards & 46/9 TD/INT ratio, also 5 rushing TDs)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carr

derek carr (424 of 605, 70.1% completion percentage, 4,866 & 50/7 TD/INT ratio)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Carr_(American_football)

David was an excellent prospect that got shell-shocked. Having seem him go from pretty passer to eerily bad just when the Gmen switched from non-contact to contact aka breathe on the QB and he's down...even late in his career the guy could remind you that the phrase "make all the throws" is not usually true about most other prospects. He was rather intelligent for a QB. Had a kid when he was drafted and to go from these spoiled types to him having to bring his kid in to watch tape because he didn't have(or trust) a sitter was a responsibility we don't usually read about prospects. Nice attitude and really had so many reasons to whine about his time with the Texans but rarely called anybody out. He's such a shame-the NFL system just used him and spit him out. Palmer would spend all this time telling reporters about his darn sidearm motion and like zero time improving his OL that just set a record for sacks allowed.

I've never seen anything like him. I swear if I yelled "look out!" he'd probably throw it away and duck down for cover. He wasn't like scared in this way we joke or tease about some QBs he was truly terrified where ya wondered if he had nightmares.

There was a thread here one year where others went to Giants camp too and saw it. It was really creepy. You had no doubt why he was the top pick in the draft when they were taking it easy and then when live action started, your jaw dropped. Such a shame....

 

[Andy Dufresne]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

 

[jurb26]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

This has to cause some concern IMO. Getting one ticket like that doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not a bad crime and I'm sure we've all done something similar when we were young. Some get caught, many others don't. Having it done 2x in such a short amount of time just seems like a lack of self control and respect for authority.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

At best. It's only a matter of time before he's in prison, right?

 

[JaxBill]

Wonder how much Carr killed his draft stock with that showing on Saturday.

a comparison of the respective performances by carr and marqise lee in the bowl game... BTW, haven't seen this brought up in the context of carr's physical stature, but bracie brought up bridgewater's wraith-like frame at 6'3" and i think a listed 208 lbs (though if you look, you can find three or four different listed weights for him that are all over the place - but the consensus seems to be that he is on the thin side). just noticed carr is a listed 6'3" 205, so roughly similar dimensions. for what it is worth, his older brother, former #1 overall bust david (who may have been broken taking record breaking sack numbers in HOU) is a listed 6'3" 215 lbs. so maybe he will fill out as he physically matures and develops... and maybe he has a better frame to do so than bridgewater?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000301468/article/derek-carr-marqise-lee-showcase-skills-in-las-vegas-bowl

* the carr brothers final seasons at fresno st. seem eerily similar (derek a bit more accurate)...

david carr (344 of 533, 64.5% completion percentage, 4,839 yards & 46/9 TD/INT ratio, also 5 rushing TDs)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carr

derek carr (424 of 605, 70.1% completion percentage, 4,866 & 50/7 TD/INT ratio)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Carr_(American_football)

David was an excellent prospect that got shell-shocked. Having seem him go from pretty passer to eerily bad just when the Gmen switched from non-contact to contact aka breathe on the QB and he's down...even late in his career the guy could remind you that the phrase "make all the throws" is not usually true about most other prospects. He was rather intelligent for a QB. Had a kid when he was drafted and to go from these spoiled types to him having to bring his kid in to watch tape because he didn't have(or trust) a sitter was a responsibility we don't usually read about prospects. Nice attitude and really had so many reasons to whine about his time with the Texans but rarely called anybody out. He's such a shame-the NFL system just used him and spit him out. Palmer would spend all this time telling reporters about his darn sidearm motion and like zero time improving his OL that just set a record for sacks allowed.

I've never seen anything like him. I swear if I yelled "look out!" he'd probably throw it away and duck down for cover. He wasn't like scared in this way we joke or tease about some QBs he was truly terrified where ya wondered if he had nightmares.

There was a thread here one year where others went to Giants camp too and saw it. It was really creepy. You had no doubt why he was the top pick in the draft when they were taking it easy and then when live action started, your jaw dropped. Such a shame....

It's a shame the way the Texans' repeatedly ignored the OL when he came out. He's almost a verb as in

"The Jags OL has had problems but Gabbert was skittish in the pocket in college so you can't say he was David Carr'd"

 

[ghostguy123]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

This has to cause some concern IMO. Getting one ticket like that doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not a bad crime and I'm sure we've all done something similar when we were young. Some get caught, many others don't.Having it done 2x in such a short amount of time just seems like a lack of self control and respect for authority.

It's not just these tickets. It's everything all put together. I have a horrible feeling this guy just ends up sucking, mostly due to poor work ethic and how entitiled he appears to be. It seems like he cares to much what people think about him, and not in the good "chip on my shoulder way", but more the bad"I am better than you so no matter what I do doesn't matter, cause I am better than you" kind of way.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

This has to cause some concern IMO. Getting one ticket like that doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not a bad crime and I'm sure we've all done something similar when we were young. Some get caught, many others don't.Having it done 2x in such a short amount of time just seems like a lack of self control and respect for authority.

It's not just these tickets. It's everything all put together. I have a horrible feeling this guy just ends up sucking, mostly due to poor work ethic and how entitiled he appears to be. It seems like he cares to much what people think about him, and not in the good "chip on my shoulder way", but more the bad"I am better than you so no matter what I do doesn't matter, cause I am better than you" kind of way.

These two things are the opposite.

 

[jurb26]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

This has to cause some concern IMO. Getting one ticket like that doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not a bad crime and I'm sure we've all done something similar when we were young. Some get caught, many others don't.Having it done 2x in such a short amount of time just seems like a lack of self control and respect for authority.

It's not just these tickets. It's everything all put together. I have a horrible feeling this guy just ends up sucking, mostly due to poor work ethic and how entitiled he appears to be. It seems like he cares to much what people think about him, and not in the good "chip on my shoulder way", but more the bad"I am better than you so no matter what I do doesn't matter, cause I am better than you" kind of way.

These two things are the opposite.

I agree. That seems like a conflicting view.I happen to think he's a guy who may not care what people think. An I'll play when I want to play, do what I want to do, say what I want to say attitude.

 

[Spike]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

Yeah - unfortunately.

 

[JaxBill]

The tickets are just part of a bigger question with Clowney. By draft time, he'll have spent 18 months biding his time to get paid.

My question is: Is getting paid the ultimate goal for him or does it set him free to go all out and wreak havoc again (now that his family is taken care of)?

I don't know the answer to that question.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

PFT reporting clowney with his second speeding ticket this month. Since both were over 25 mph the posted speed limit, he could be subject to having his license suspended. Again, not heinous crimes, but hopefully he can keep a low profile between now and the draft.

This guy seems like Haynesworth Part 2.

This has to cause some concern IMO. Getting one ticket like that doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not a bad crime and I'm sure we've all done something similar when we were young. Some get caught, many others don't.Having it done 2x in such a short amount of time just seems like a lack of self control and respect for authority.

It's not just these tickets. It's everything all put together. I have a horrible feeling this guy just ends up sucking, mostly due to poor work ethic and how entitiled he appears to be. It seems like he cares to much what people think about him, and not in the good "chip on my shoulder way", but more the bad"I am better than you so no matter what I do doesn't matter, cause I am better than you" kind of way.

These two things are the opposite.

I agree. That seems like a conflicting view.I happen to think he's a guy who may not care what people think. An I'll play when I want to play, do what I want to do, say what I want to say attitude.

I get the impression that he (incorrectly) doesn't think he's properly challenged in college, so his mind wanders. However, when he gets to the pros, he'll have plenty of challenge every day. I can't predict how he will respond, but I think in general it's a poor attitude and not one that great players take.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Fortunately for him, Clowney is the only game in town for 4-3 pass rushing DE's in this draft. 2nd best is probably Tuitt and he's a distant 2nd.

 

[MAC_32]

So we're over analyzing speeding tickets now? I thought this stuff waited until March to turn into a conversation piece. You guys bored already?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So we're over analyzing speeding tickets now? I thought this stuff waited until March to turn into a conversation piece. You guys bored already?

You know it's more than a question of driving fast.

 

[MAC_32]

So we're over analyzing speeding tickets now? I thought this stuff waited until March to turn into a conversation piece. You guys bored already?

You know it's more than a question of driving fast.

build him up to tear him down. I'm not gambling whether the bspn hype machine is his undoing. It happens to some, not others. Just as many cases of manufactured college stars that get their head on straight once going pro as there are those that flame out. Probably more. Amateur shrink is a difficult game without all the information.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So we're over analyzing speeding tickets now? I thought this stuff waited until March to turn into a conversation piece. You guys bored already?

You know it's more than a question of driving fast.

build him up to tear him down. I'm not gambling whether the bspn hype machine is his undoing. It happens to some, not others. Just as many cases of manufactured college stars that get their head on straight once going pro as there are those that flame out. Probably more. Amateur shrink is a difficult game without all the information.

Nobody's making him act like a punk.

It's not okay to question what kind of guy he is or NFL player he might be based on BOTH his on AND off field question marks?

 

[RUSF18]

So we're over analyzing speeding tickets now? I thought this stuff waited until March to turn into a conversation piece. You guys bored already?

You know it's more than a question of driving fast.

build him up to tear him down. I'm not gambling whether the bspn hype machine is his undoing. It happens to some, not others. Just as many cases of manufactured college stars that get their head on straight once going pro as there are those that flame out. Probably more. Amateur shrink is a difficult game without all the information.

Nobody's making him act like a punk.

It's not okay to question what kind of guy he is or NFL player he might be based on BOTH his on AND off field question marks?

Seems like the on field criticism rests on things like "he doesn't look like he's going at 100%" or pointing at defensive stats while ignoring that teams are constantly running away from him and also sending 2 or 3 guys to block him.

He got a lot of criticism for not wanting to play when he was fighting injury early in the season...a year after watching his teammate, by and large considered to be the best RB prospect in his class and a potential Heisman candidate at one point, blow out a knee for the SECOND time.

Then before this season, we saw legitimate people in sports media debating whether or not it made more sense for Clowney to take the entire year off to protect against injury and prepare for the NFL.

Add those two facts together and is it really that tough to see why motivation to play for free may have been a factor for the kid?

 

[MAC_32]

So we're over analyzing speeding tickets now? I thought this stuff waited until March to turn into a conversation piece. You guys bored already?

You know it's more than a question of driving fast.

build him up to tear him down. I'm not gambling whether the bspn hype machine is his undoing. It happens to some, not others. Just as many cases of manufactured college stars that get their head on straight once going pro as there are those that flame out. Probably more. Amateur shrink is a difficult game without all the information.

Nobody's making him act like a punk.It's not okay to question what kind of guy he is or NFL player he might be based on BOTH his on AND off field question marks?

when you build up an entitled 19 year old like the media does I'd be more surprised if they don't f up.

 

[Bob Magaw]

MAC_32 had some interesting ideas in this thread and another, which prompts some questions for input from others.

1 - the contrarian, outlier suggestion to "not count out" three WRs going in the top five? i think likely one at most. maybe two in the top 10.

2 - where will Evans go? that was helpfully narrowed down to maybe top 5, maybe top 25, maybe top 15? my guess would be between top 10-15 (jets would be a good destination). not as high as top five, not as low as the IND pick,

3 - what is the expectation for his 40 time? MAC_32 had a speculative, what if-based idea that teams will over react to a "sub-optimal" 40 time. when asked to characterize what he had in mind for a "sub-optimal time", he put that off until the combine? my guess is he will run about 4.55 (possibly faster), which will be in line with expectations, and not cause him to drop anywhere close to the mid-20s.

* I admit I got lost with the expectation that evans could be a realistic top 5 overall candidate, but also a realistic candidate to drop to the mid-20s based on a "sub-optimal" 40 time (albeit a secret, hidden one not revealed).

 

[jurb26]

I don't so much care what time Evans runs as much as I care about seeing him in positional drills. I think Evans is fast enough but builds his speed slowly. I want to see his short area quickness and explosiveness in and out of breaks/cuts. I want to see his knee bend and hip flexibility as well. I know he is bigger, stronger and faster than most NCAA guys. He won't get by on those things in the NFL though.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I don't so much care what time Evans runs as much as I care about seeing him in positional drills. I think Evans is fast enough but builds his speed slowly. I want to see his short area quickness and explosiveness in and out of breaks/cuts. I want to see his knee bend and hip flexibility as well. I know he bigger, stronger and faster than most NCAA guys. He won't get by on those things in the NFL though.

i get that he should be judged by his body of work and his film shows more than adequate functional, game, field speed. nonetheless, if he runs a lineman-like 4.7, that is going to be a problem. where do you see him drafted, APPROXIMATELY?

do you see three top five WRs?

 

[jurb26]

I don't so much care what time Evans runs as much as I care about seeing him in positional drills. I think Evans is fast enough but builds his speed slowly. I want to see his short area quickness and explosiveness in and out of breaks/cuts. I want to see his knee bend and hip flexibility as well. I know he bigger, stronger and faster than most NCAA guys. He won't get by on those things in the NFL though.

i get that he should be judged by his body of work and his film shows more than adequate functional, game, field speed. nonetheless, if he runs a lineman-like 4.7, that is going to be a problem. where do you see him drafted, APPROXIMATELY?

do you see three top five WRs?

No I don't see 3 top 5 WRs. Not even close to be honest. That doesn't mean it won't happen. The only guy I see as top 5 material is Watkins and even he wouldn't be in my top 5. My top 5 players would be. Clowney

Barr

Bridgewater

Mathews

Robinson

I don't think 3 WRs will go in the top 10, either.

 

[MAC_32]

You made up a story based on three posts in unrelated threads then asked poor follow up questions.

I think Evans is a top five talent, I think he could get picked top five. I think it's possible evaluators over react to his underwear Olympics. If they do he'd be a great value late first. If ye doesn't fall there are many great alternatives. This wr class is great.

 

[MAC_32]

Watkins. Lee. Evans. Robinson. Matthews. Adams. Benjamin. Strong. About a half dozen others. There are going to be a lit of great starters that come from this class.

None of them have Evans skill set though. Unique talent.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I think we see things pretty closely. I was hoping somehow the rams could get watkins first and robinson second, but that probably isn't realistic. IF he declares, the cat will be out of the bag quickly. though one thing that could cause him to drop, despite being a monster in the run game, is his pass protection technique could a little unrefined (even for an underclassman), and he is relatively unbattle tested in the phase of the game... but he can be coached up. outstanding materials for an NFL OL position coach to work with.

incidentally, the reason I think 40 time is important, and you alluded to it. what was fast enough to work in college probably won't be as effective at the next level. though sometimes wrong (chad johnson tested very poorly, but looked like he ran a sub-4.4 on the field), the NFL has positional minimum-required speed benchmarks that weigh heavily in their judgements and decisions. other measurables, too, of course (no 5'7" nose tackles, 6'8" RBs, 170 lb. LBs, etc.).

 

[Andy Dufresne]

In the current top 5, St. Louis, Oakland, and Cleveland could all conceivably take a WR.

But the top 3 WRs are Watkins, Evans, and Lee - but Lee's lack of production/injury bug this year will push him down in the draft. And if one WR goes in the top 5, then there are other guys that are closer to sure things that will be taken ahead of the WR spot.

No, there will not be 3 WRs taken in the top 5.

 

[Bob Magaw]

You made up a story based on three posts in unrelated threads then asked poor follow up questions.

I think Evans is a top five talent, I think he could get picked top five. I think it's possible evaluators over react to his underwear Olympics. If they do he'd be a great value late first. If ye doesn't fall there are many great alternatives. This wr class is great.

thanks for that input from "others".

1 - you didn't suggest there could be three top five WTs. check post #524 in this thread. again, that is in THIS thread. is that a made up story? is that misrepresenting you? what did you mean if not there could be three top five WR? you may not realize this is contrarian and an outlier position, but it is.

2 - post # 4731 in the browns thread, you respond to an exchange "Evans will be gone by the time the Browns 2nd pick is on the clock" with "I expect teams to over react when he runs a questionable 40 time". that isn't a made up story. you weren't misrepresented. obviously who the top WRs from the class of 2014 and where they will go are under the purview of this thread, as you already talked about the subject previously, IN THIS THREAD.

3 - reread point #2, YOUR words, not a made up story, not a misrepresentation. you didn't use the words "I think it's possible". again, I can only respond according to what you say, not to how you change it later. you seemed to imply a presupposed slow 40 time. asking what you had in mind with this mythical questionable 40 time is not a poor follow up question, it is a patently obvious and logical follow up question. your premise is completely baseless and unintelligible without something specific (at least a range) IN MIND. if you literally have nothing in mind, that isn't a poor follow up question, that is just incoherent. if you have something in mind but won't say, that isn't a poor follow up question, that is being evasive.

 

[Bob Magaw]

this thread seems to have served its purpose, just days now from finding out the final draft order. others can start threads (or participate in existing ones) from once the actual draft order is fixed leading up to the draft itself.