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Courtroom/Lawyer Film Tournament - Championship - WE HAVE CROWNED A CHAMPION (1 Viewer)

Who wins 3rd place?

  • My Cousin Vinny

    Votes: 56 59.6%
  • To Kill a Mockingbird

    Votes: 35 37.2%
  • Decline - Have not seen both

    Votes: 3 3.2%

  • Total voters
    94

Keith R

The Don
The top 32 movies (in my humble opinion combined with IMDB lists, RT score and public notoriety) qualified.  5 rounds.  There shall be a winner. Vote as you feel is appropriate.  Let’s crown a champion!.

A Few Good Men - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Few_Good_Men

12 Angry Men - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Angry_Men_(1957_film)

My Cousin Vinny - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Cousin_Vinny

To Kill a Mockingbird - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Kill_a_Mockingbird_(film)

Voting ends Monday at 5:00 pm ET.

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The championship is the Battle of the Men

I threw in a 3rd place match because the two movies I voted for in the semis both lost and was still curious how that match would go.

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At the moment voting officially ended, by a margin of six votes, your Champion of Courtroom/Lawyer Films is - A FEW GOOD MEN

2nd - 12 Angry Men

3rd - My Cousin Vinny

 
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I voted a few good men, although 12 Angry Men is a more important film.

And I've been fading Vinny the entire way so easy vote for TKaM

 
Mostly copy and paste job from final four thread with some edits and formatted to fit these final matchups:

Championship Round

1. A Few Good Men - One of my favorite movies of all-time and, as a defense attorney, easily the most fictional courtroom drama that I think defense attorneys can identify with (for me, right down to the need to be good at softball). The interplay between Jack and Caffey - right down to the competitiveness about trivial things - is realistic and a relationship that develops between prosecutors and defense attorneys who often work the same cases. Caffey pushing cases by plea bargain is consistent with the fact that ~95% do settle by plea bargain and there are a lot of young defense attorneys that initially handle low-level misdemeanor cases whose main job is to chip away at plea offers in small stakes cases. However, my favorite scene in the movie is the scene where Caffey visits his client after he gets Jack to give him the plea offer he wants. Caffey, knowing that his hard work produced this option - and wisely knowing that from a risk-benefit analysis the plea was very favorable - happily tells Dawson about the offer he got it and expects him to be at least appreciative and then strongly consider it. Dawson, in true irrational client fashion, basically tells him to #### off then critcizes Caffey's drive while essentially playing the "on principle" card. I imagine from the neutral viewer's perspective that there was more sympathy for Dawson in the scene than Caffey since, you know, Dawson is innocent and all that (note: he wasn't and the jury verdict was spot on). But that scene really did a nice job of bringing to light one of if not the hardest parts of the job - advising a possibly innocent client to take a plea offer that you know is in his best interests only to have that client turn down the offer (while simultaneously not even appreciating the hard work that went into obtaining it), and then turning to you to literally save his life.  People will commonly ask how a defense attorney can defend an obviously guilty person but that situation is far easier. It's the situations like this one, where the case lies in the gray area of guilt v. innocence, where the stakes are high, where you know losing is a real possibility due to the evidence likely to be presented at trial, and you're the only thing standing between your client and the rest of his life in prison. This is the scenario that keeps one up at night. This is the scenario that makes it hard to plug along and keep at it 100% when the client hasn't listened to you. I've been in this situation a number of times. I'm currently dealing with this exact situation. I have won trials where I still maintain the client should have taken the plea agreement. Here, despite the end of the movie, the trial outcome, and all the Hollywood righteousness that went along with it, Dawson and Downey should have listened to Caffey and taken the plea. And I really appreciate the movie had such a scene to somewhat explain this difficult position that Caffey was in. 

The remainder of the movie is, of course, filled with very good scenes. It demonstrates the trial psychosis attorney experience on the eve of trial. Galloway's disdain for Caffey and the whole plea bargaining process is a nice embodiment of a brand new defense attorney who doesn't yet understand the system.  I appreciated the scene with the baseball bat where Caffey discovers a small but key fact after his umpteenth review of the evidence (I've had a similar aha moment come after looking at the crime scene photos for the umpteenth time). The courtroom scenes themselves generally do a nice job adhering the rules of procedure and evidence. The "strenously object" scene is funny from a legal nerd perspective (although, frankly, that issue should have been dealt with in a motion in limine). And, of course, the confrontation of Jessep via cross-examination is riveting.  My only two nitpicks of this movie - and they are small - is that 1) Caffey likely wouldn't have been able to drop his caseload so suddenly to focus on just one case; and 2) while I'm not as familiar with the military justice process, the trial was set awfully quickly for a case of such high stakes. Most criminal cases don't happen so swiftly. There's also, as other have pointed out, some overracting. But, in all, it's a movie that I think most actual trial lawyers relate to and think is a good representation of what they do for the general public to see (while still being entertained).

2. 12 Angry Men - From a cinematic perspective, and considering that like 90% of the movie takes place in one set with the same actors engaging just in pure dialogue, it's incredible. In other words, I think it's one of the best movies of all-time. The acting is so good. Each actor plays his character's stereotype perfectly. And, from a legal perspective, I think it fairly demonstrates some of the prejudices real potential jurors have and the dynamics of groupthink (e.g. one of the jurors just wanting to get to the ballgame, the difficulty sometimes of having a unaminous verdict, some jurors clearly just willing to do what the others will do, etc.).  I also really, really like that the jurors don't prove that the defendant is innocent but instead appropriately arrive at what is some very reasonable doubt as to whether or not he did it. That is, after all, the standard. A common jury instruction (and a point I beat into the jurors' minds in both opening and closing) is that the analysis throughout the process is solely whether the state can firmly convince the jury that the defendant did do it and the defendant has no burden to fimly convince the jury that he didn't do it (or that somebody else did) and that it shouldn't expected. When the jury actually analyzes the facts (like the angle of the knife wound, whether the witness could hear over the train, whether the firsthand witness was wearing her glasses, etc.) it's a great example of what a jury should do. So, from that perspective, and when combined with the sheer quality of acting in this movie, it absolutely should be top tier for this contest and, frankly, if this were a "greatest movie" tournament in a film class this movie should win. 

But, this is a courtroom/lawyer tournament. And, from that perspective, this movie fails because it perpetuates such poor stereotypes about the criminal justice system I wish it could be unmade (note: I recognize this story/move was made decades ago and maybe back then it was different but I doubt it). First and foremost, the portrayal of the public defender is grossly unfair and only serves to further the stereotype that public defenders are worthless when, in reality, they are some of the hardest-working lawyers in the system. Most of them care. Most of them work their cases the best they can. Most of them, especially ones assigned to a murder case, have significant courtroom experience. The downfall, usually, falls on caseload and resources. Additionally, the portrayal of the disinterested judge also serves to perpetuate a hideous stereotype. Real judges know the weight of the cases they oversee. If they've become a judge they very likely believe in the system. They aren't going to be notceably bored when reading jury instructions at the end of a first degree murder trial. So, in short, #### you 12 Angry Men for perpetuating ugly and likely errant stereotypes about a system where most people involved want to see the right thing happen. The self-righteousness of Henry Fonda having to save it is so self-indulgent Hollywood elitism that it makes me almost want to be sympathetic to Trump for some irrational reason. After all, this movie, unlike My Cousin Vinny, takes itself so seriously that the viewer should not overlook its flaws. 

Pick: A Few Good Men - While I understand the argument that it's overracted, the movie does a very nice job of actually presenting the roles of criminal lawyers and the manner in which a case is presented in the courtroom. 12 Angry Men, while brilliantly written, shot, and acted, doesn't do any of this and it reeks of Hollywood pretentiousness. 

Consolation round:

3. To Kill a Mockingbird - From a social justice perspective, there may be no better story. The issues that arise such as racial disparity and discrimination are captured very well and the inequality in the courtroom follows. From an acting perspective, Peck is brilliant as the protagonist . The character sets a great tone and example for the ethics a lawyer should follow. The concepts in the story set a great example that any human should follow. The movie adapted and adhered to the book incredibly well. However, it's no surprise that Harper Lee, while she attended law school, didn't actually litigate. As such, the courtroom scenes themselves as a fictionalized example of what real trials and lawyers look like and face is somewhat lacking. As such, while it's not really a nitpick, in a tournment where we're talking courtroom scenes this movie shouldn't win. 

4. My Cousin Vinny - Despite being a comedy, My Cousin Vinny is hands down the movie that actually takes the viewer on a surprsingly accurate trip through the criminal procedure. Starting with the arrest ("I shot the clerk?!"), going to the preliminary hearing ("You really thought we could win? We are in Ala-#######-bama"),  the pre-trial process ("He just gave me his whole file!") and, of course, the trial itself ("How many fingers am I holding up? For the record, counsel is holding up two fingers. Your honor, please!") the movie mostly follows the actual court process pretty darn closely. Vinny's cross-examination of the witnesses, especially after the movie provided their very convincing testimonies at the preliminary hearing, was realistically masterful and sans the hyperbolic gloss of a typical courtroom fictional drama. I also appreciated how the prosecutor and law enforcement were genuinely portrayed as being pretty neutral to the extent that they didn't immediately just refuse to see exculpatory evidence when it came out during trial.

From a movie-perspective, the acting and comedy is so well done. I love the cousin. He's totally the client who knows just enough about law (I took pre-law!) to be totally detrimental to himself and his flip-flopping between lawyers is great.  Tomei's portrayal of the overconfident and feisty but fiercely loyal New York girlfriend is such an entertaining character. The judge and his adherence to courtroom rules and etiquette is quite funny. And, of course, Vinny screwing up in many of the new ways that new attorneys fear but ultimately showing that being smart and knowing the facts of one's case (defense attorney 101 is making sure that when trial starts you know the facts of the case better than anybody else in the room) does ultimately lead to success. 

I do, of course, have some nitpicks. The portrayal of the public defender was stereotypically cringeworthy (public defenders spend more time in courtrooms on average than any other lawyer and there's no way he'd have not gotten over the nervous stutter). Arguably, Vinny probably should not have been able to call his gf as an expert witness without prior disclosure (although the voir dire scene was great). Further, Vinny probably wouldn't have been able to represent them in the first place - there's a process called "pro hac vice" that's generally required and many states have bar numbers and cards to prove that someone is a lawyer. But, oddly, with the movie being a comedy that is wonderfully written to not take itself too seriously they can be much more easily and comfortable overlooked than if they were in some self-righteous drama. In other words, at least to me, I can set them aside as comedic devices and not some errant and unfair commentary on the real-life actors within the system. 

Again, though,  what vaults this movie to the absolute top tier of courtroom movies is the balance between being an entertaining movie (in this case a genuinely funny comedy) while actually correctly teaching the viewer about the criminal process and the rules. Regarding the latter, the movie is so well done that several of the courtroom scenes are oftentimes used as a demonstrative examples in actual Evidence classes in law school. My Evidence professor used it. I've used it when I've taught criminal procedure. So, from a legal perspective, it's just such a rare treat to have a movie that's both genuinely entertaining while also being accurate and borderline educational. 

3rd place pick - My Cousin Vinny. Despite being a comedy it's the most realistic portrayal of courtroom procedure and the ways in which an attorney can realistically succeed while complying with the rules of procedure and evidence. I was disappointed this movie didn't make the final because I'd have voted for it to win it all. 

 
Tl;dr - Please don't choose 12 Angry Men to win a "courtroom/lawyer" tournament because it fails to portray what actually happens inside a courtroom and what lawyers do. 

 
This is razor thin right now.

I should have pointed out the the two finalists are the only two (as far as I know) in the entire field that are based on a play

 
Well written @Zow

I've never been a defense attorney but I've been a prosecutor and supervised prosecutors, as a Judge Advocate.  While the film clearly didn't focus on Captain Ross (underutilizing Kevin Bacon IMO) they did a credible job with everything.  Rarely does a film get everything right about the military. This one has its flaws, but they're barely worth mentioning.  

Although I grew to dislike the film only because of the number of times others reference it to us, it's very well done. 

I'm almost on the fence regarding whether I prefer a few good men or rules of engagement (which is under rated IMO). I'll need to watch them both again soon. 

 
12 Angry Men was about jurors, not lawyers.

Anyhoo, Johnny Cochran in People vs OJ Simpson should win this gliding away with style points.

 
Voted for "12 Angry Men" which I have not seen, but I know it's got to be better than "A Few Good Men," which would be little more than a straight-to-video "Law & Order" retread if not for Jack's two scenes.

 
Voted for "12 Angry Men" which I have not seen, but I know it's got to be better than "A Few Good Men," which would be little more than a straight-to-video "Law & Order" retread if not for Jack's two scenes.
and Aaron Sorkin's ability to make anyone sound purposeful & smart.

 
🤷‍♂️ It's a fun movie. 

I didn't vote for it but I can see why others would.
I really like Vinny, but it's not an all time great like TKAM.

For me, that 's like saying that Old School is better than The Godfather.

 
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I really like Vinny, but it's not an all time great like TKAM.

For me, that 's like saying that Old School is better than The Godfather.
I get your point, but wouldn't put TKAM on the quite same level as the Godfather. 

Comedies can be equally great as the serious films.  You could disagree, but some might vote blazing saddles over the unforgiven in a poll about Westerns. 

 
-OZ- said:
I get your point, but wouldn't put TKAM on the quite same level as the Godfather. 

Comedies can be equally great as the serious films.  You could disagree, but some might vote blazing saddles over the unforgiven in a poll about Westerns. 
And, to put it into even better perspective, it'd be like Blazing Saddles with surprisingly accurate and smart historical references v. Tombstone where there were some creative liberties taken. 

 
-OZ- said:
I get your point, but wouldn't put TKAM on the quite same level as the Godfather. 

Comedies can be equally great as the serious films.  You could disagree, but some might vote blazing saddles over the unforgiven in a poll about Westerns. 
Definitely agree that comedies can be great films.

 
I wonder how much recency bias plays into voting.

Was talking about 12 ANGRY MEN with my 14-year old, who had watched it in class -- this was the brilliance of this film, how it displayed not just how the inner workings of the judicial court and trial system, but also some of it's best and worst features/flaws, as well as how human dynamics play into the law -- the gray areas between facts and beliefs, and how one can color the other; and how our own world-view impacts how we interpret a situation or decisions.

In my kid's eyes, he recognized right away why the film is a classic and important -- but as a film, he didn't love it. Likely because the pace and nature of storytelling (visually and otherwise) is so much different in the late 50s than now. 

In the end, My Cousin Vinny (a film I'm so glad to see in the Final 4) may not be as powerful as TKaM or 12AM, but way more "entertaining" to a younger audience as even though that movie is nearly 30 years old, it's pacing and characters more closely align to what a younger audience these days is more accustomed to.

I imagine this recency bias could indeed be one reason that films like A FEW GOOD MEN and MY COUSIN VINNY will likely outpace older, more dated films in the voting. AFGM and MCV are phenomenal and hugely deserving -- but in my mind pale in terms of importance, relevance, quality, and power than the other two.

My opinion anyway.

 
At the moment voting officially ended, by a margin of six votes, your Champion of Courtroom/Lawyer Films is - A FEW GOOD MEN

2nd - 12 Angry Men

3rd - My Cousin Vinny

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This has been a lot of fun and while this is not the champion I would have picked, it is a worthy championship film indeed.  As I mentioned in other threads, I liked this topic in part because while it is a traditionally serious subject matter, it does allow for non-dramas to appear and perform, as shown by the comedy My Cousin Vinny earning 3rd place.  There was a horror-courtroom movie that could have appeared but I did not feel The Exorcism of Emily Rose deserved to crack the top 32.

I hope people enjoyed this endeavor.  I probably won't have the chance to run another film tournament for a while but may try one in the next few months.  Of course, if someone else wants to run one, I would welcome it and actively participate (hint hint).

 
At the moment voting officially ended, by a margin of six votes, your Champion of Courtroom/Lawyer Films is - A FEW GOOD MEN

2nd - 12 Angry Men

3rd - My Cousin Vinny

-------------------------

This has been a lot of fun and while this is not the champion I would have picked, it is a worthy championship film indeed.  As I mentioned in other threads, I liked this topic in part because while it is a traditionally serious subject matter, it does allow for non-dramas to appear and perform, as shown by the comedy My Cousin Vinny earning 3rd place.  There was a horror-courtroom movie that could have appeared but I did not feel The Exorcism of Emily Rose deserved to crack the top 32.

I hope people enjoyed this endeavor.  I probably won't have the chance to run another film tournament for a while but may try one in the next few months.  Of course, if someone else wants to run one, I would welcome it and actively participate (hint hint).
I agree, it was a good mix of movies. I was surprised to see 12 Angry Men lose but perhaps this shows a shift that has happened in public opinion as 12 Angry Men has gotten 60+  years old. 

 
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I've wondered why Atticus Finch chose trial by jury instead of trial by judge. Haven't read the book but the judge in the movie seemed more even handed than the crackers on the jury.

 
I've wondered why Atticus Finch chose trial by jury instead of trial by judge. Haven't read the book but the judge in the movie seemed more even handed than the crackers on the jury.
My guess is that while winning a jury trial was a real longshot, at least there was a chance.  Atticus knew the judge and while a judge ought to outwardly demonstrate professionalism, that doesn't mean he would apply the facts to the law without accounting for race the way he should have.  If getting a fair jury was even a 1% chance, it was better than a lock to lose at bench trial.

I'll point out that a defendant, not his attorney, decides whether to waive his right to a jury, though I am sure Tom would have done it if Atticus had advised him to do so.

 
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My guess is that while winning a jury trial was a real longshot, at least there was a chance.  Atticus knew the judge and while a judge ought to outwardly demonstrate professionalism, that doesn't mean he would apply the facts to the law without accounting for race the way he should have.  If getting a fair jury was even a 1% chance, it was better than a lock to lose at bench trial.

I'll point out that a defendant, not his attorney, decides whether to waive his right to a jury, though I am sure Tom would have done it if Atticus had advised him to do so.
In some jurisdictions the state would have to stipulate to waive a jury trial as well. 

 
In some jurisdictions the state would have to stipulate to waive a jury trial as well. 
That's true.  Perhaps the judge would have been fair but the prosecutor knew that and refused to waive jury.  That prosecutor did seem to value victory over justice.

 

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