Amused to Death
Footballguy
Mostly agree but Sinema is facing some backlash and a potential primary challenge.
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Crenshaw - darling of GOP - blasts the "Freedom Caucus" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Dude
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
Sure but there are significant differences. The backlash she’s facing is because of policy issues, not because she expressed skepticism over a false claim about an election result, or dared to criticize the party leader.
The other difference is that if and when Sinema faces a primary challenge, she will win.
timschochet
Footballguy
Again: policy, not fealty to a leader.
Again: this will be a failed effort because AOC does not represent the views of the Democratic base.
It’s not the same.
In the House we have the "problem solver caucus" made of of Democrats and Republicans.
https://problemsolverscaucus.house.gov/
Boston
Footballguy
You said not towing the line as well…Trump isn’t getting any younger so his hold will be gone soon enough…once Pelosi is out of the way the Squad and AOC may get more powerful and they have proven that if you don’t agree with them they will throw bombs…I think you drastically underestimate the far left and it’s power in the party which is odd since the runner-up in their primary the past two elections was a Socialist.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Well if you’re right I will be forced to leave the Democrats, just as I once left the Republicans. And that will leave me with no one to support. So I hope you’re wrong.
That is more likely the fault of the voters who choose to remain put party before country and go to the extreme left or extreme right corners of their parties.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I like Crenshaw, not for 2024, but some time in the future. I want him in Congress for a good bit. Hoping Trump doesn't run again. I'm not sure if there is a Democratic candidate I would consider for President. Will reserve judgment until I see the candidates and hear the debates.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Direct Headline: ‘They have better things to do’ – Major Republican donors are staying away from Trump
Wealthy financiers have instead opted to spend money on the GOP’s efforts to take back Congress or to support other potential 2024 presidential candidates such as Ron DeSantis and Tim Scott.
Brian Schwartz Tue, Aug 31 202111:55 AM EDT
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/trump-gets-little-support-from-major-republican-donors.html
Direct Headline: GOP mega-donor says he wouldn't back Trump 2024
Griffin, according to Bloomberg, said that Trump’s time in the White House was not particularly constructive. But he also offered praise for the former president’s economic policies, which he called “pretty damn good.”
By Max Greenwood - 10/04/21 04:37 PM EDT
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/575236-gop-megadonor-says-he-wouldnt-back-trump-2024
****
Trump might announce a run for fundraising purposes ( He's a grifter after all) so as to limit his legal exposure as the IRS will not extend him the courtesy given to every other politician who is retiring on cooked Leadership PAC money, dark money and zombie campaign money, but he can't run and win without full Party support and without big donor financial support.
What's particularly pathetic in this scenario is at the end of January 2020, the idea of a Trump as a contender for 2024 would have sounded completely insane. However this current Obama/Biden/Harris/Rice regime has been a total cluster ####. There is no way to describe the self implosion of this current administration, to the point where the madness of Trump looks almost sane in comparison.
You have to wonder what Barack Obama was thinking. Susan Rice had no chance at VP since he threw her on top of her sword over Benghazi. He just lifted her up and chucked her over the first large pointy object he could find. So of course Rice, incensed she was not selected for VPOTUS, did everything possible to aid in the tanking of Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg. Rice insanely believes that she can still power and bull doze her way into higher office if she clears the field down to nothing. To be fair to Rice, it's not like Harris and Buttigieg did much to actually help themselves here. Susan Rice is an idiot. You have a defacto "street capo" running this country into the ground but the real problem is she's the kind of nimrod who would lose every game of Go Fish to Emmitt Smith.
Emmitt Smith - Do you have any threes?
Susan Rice - Three is a racist number. I lost a game of Connect Four last week to Jackie Aprile Jr but that was kind of a fluke
It's unfortunate so many tribalists here are are salivating at the thought of more Orange Man Bad instead of talking actual practical politics. Because in standard woke logical fallacy bombing, Orange Man Bad almost operates like a hyper realized form of sweeping generalization.
You can't win without Party support. Not like this. Not with the baggage of two impeachments and J6 and everything else.
The absolute worst thing Susan Rice is doing right now is buying into the "Let's find something to convict Trump on" routine. It's fulfilling some wokie's bloodlust, but it gives Nikki Haley something to trade. Which is a future Presidential Pardon for Trump. When Haley formed her Super PAC and when big hitter money abandoned Trump, the long term writing is on the wall.
Announce for fundraising with a time strategic pull out? Yes. Full bore down the pipe for the actual RNC ticket? I doubt it. It's not impossible but it looks logistically improbable.
Without Orange Man Bad, all some of you woke radical leftist zealots have left is to try to scream racism at DeSantis and Haley. Well Nikki Haley is a double minority with Teflon optics so I'm not quite sure how the worn down White Supremacist accusation sells to anyone. But if Larry Elder can be the "black face of white supremacy" then I'm sure anything is possible when the activist complicit MSM tries to spin this for low information voters.
Orange Man Bad just isn't enough. But I can taste your pure blood lust here. More and more moderates are refusing to stay as low information voters so no matter what the radical left does from here on out, it doesn't look good for them.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
The Dude said:
Direct Headline: Maher: Let's Not Confuse 5,000 People With 74 Million; You Can Hate Trump, But Not All His Supporters
"I preach, and still do, you can hate Trump, but not all the people who like him. And as counterintuitive as it may seem, you can like something run by #######s without being one yourself."
By Ian Schwartz January 16, 2021
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/01/16/maher_lets_not_confuse_5000_people_with_74_million_you_can_hate_trump_but_not_all_his_supporters.html
*****
You completely missed Crenshaw's point ( But to be fair, Crenshaw somehow fails often at even the most basic simple messaging. His soft skills just aren't very good)
There are 435 voting members of the HOR. There are 213 Republicans in that total.
Lauren Boebert and Majorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz do not represent all of them. That's Crenshaw's point. You have caricatures looking to become "brand name" politicians who do anything possible to enter the national daily media cycle to basically turn their seat into a soft retirement grifter opportunity. MTG's only working experience was as some low level peon for her father's construction company and sharing ownership of a small Cross Fit box. Boebert was previously an assistant manager at a McDonalds. Getting elected for them is like winning the lottery.
The problem is a small handful of Republicans are used as a way to smear ALL CONSERVATIVES AND ALL REPUBLICANS.
Did the current 221 Democrats right now in the HOR all support Defund The Police? No. Many to most actually did not. But they got dragged along for the ride by AOC and Kamala Harris and most of the other name brand Democrats who can enter the national daily media cycle anytime they want. I'm no tribalist. Lots of Democrats in the HOR want zero to do with this madness of bailing out career criminals and Defund The Police and turning the Southen Border into a swinging gate and abandoning Americans in Afghanistan. But they don't get to exercise their voice in the same way as someone like AOC.
I can safely say not all Democrats in the HOR and in the Senate are a bunch of zealots. It's unrealistic to do that unless you want a cheap dirty way to dehumanize your opponent and then try to justify destroy them as some kind of ideological cult. I always make it a point to tell my Conservative brothers here to embrace the traditional liberals. Because traditional liberals are very far removed from the radical cancel culture woked out toxic leftists here.
Some of you want to smear all Conservatives and Republicans as some kind of mindless Trump cultists. It just makes it easier to satisfy your blood lust. But it's not realistic and it's not actually humanizing real everyday people.
Crenshaw doesn't want a Boebert or a MTG or a Gaetz to be used to smear all Republicans. Because that's the narrative being played out in the activist complicit MSM. They want to sell the idea that Rittenhouse is a white supremacist and Larry Elder is a white supremacist and Trump is a white supremacist and there are armies of hill billy lawless cretins wearing plate carriers and AR15s and want to start executing minorities and gay people at will. What Crenshaw is upset about is a current situation where the GOP collective is not being "above reproach" from the entire Party, up and down the ticket.
Can anyone here say one bad thing about Nikki Haley? Even just one thing? It's why the current activist MSM pretends she doesn't exist. She's a thoughtful balanced reasonable minority woman who is also a Republican. She can't be cancelled. She's given her political enemies no ammo to use against her. She's given them no ammo for them to use against the GOP. Haley operates in an "above reproach" manner. If every Republican in the HOR acted that way, that would just make things so much easier for the Party not to be smeared with the lies and spin of the left leaning MSM. This is why Crenshaw says the Freedom Caucus are not "true legislators" They aren't there for functional governance, they are there to inflict shock marketing to garner attention and to seek more power because the loudest voices are often the ones that are heard the most.
The majority of the problem with tribalism in the PSF, at least from the radical leftists, is that they are usually low information voters. (I'm not going to get into the flaws and complications of the Conservatives here right now, I'm not going to pretend all Republicans here are faultless) Low information voters who operate as zealots who only want to ensure everyone else is a low information voters as well.
MTG and Boebert and Gaetz appeal to low information Republican voters. But they don't represent the entire Party apparatus. And they don't reflect on true nature of the hundred million plus Conservatives in the country.
I'm not a low information voter. My posting style does not appeal to low information voters. In fact, I post more practical political strategy/real time context than anyone here, which is part of the reason I'm attacked so often. Given enough time, I help to create more high information voters. Or course some zealots don't like that. Zealots want you to believe the Wizard of Oz is real. Not some idiot behind a curtain. This is what Crenshaw is talking about. He wants Republicans to stop behaving in a way that only courts low information voters. They are too easy to attack and dismiss.
Crenshaw does a poor job of explaining a very practical point. Which is why he's not a real POTUS contender himself in the first place.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Yeah, okay.
Apparently you were asleep from 2016-2020.
Oh, and never mind that the Socialists in your party grow in size EVERY election. But, yeah, the GOP's problems are deep.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
bigbottom said:
The idea of some random upstart taking someone out organically in a primary is mostly fiction. Are there rare outliers? Yes, of course. But you can't really win and survive in American politics without actual true Party support.
Ronna McDaniel and RNC HQ see the immediate value in Dan Crenshaw. Given the disaster in Afghanistan, Crenshaw becomes even more valuable as proof of life of honorable military veterans in the GOP. Anyone who wanted to run against Crenshaw would face his "brand name" status and would do so trying to exist without overall Party support. Also all the major donors and typical under the line political players aren't going to buck the will of the establishment Republicans.
The idea that AOC just came out of nowhere to wipe out Joe Crowley is all fiction. AOC was picked, groomed and curated and Pelosi stabbed one of her long time loyalists in the back because AOC fit the intersectional checklist that Obama was looking for and desired to sweep in young voters/millennial voters/digital natives. It only looks that way now, that AOC was some Cinderella story, because Pelosi and Obama, typically, miscalculated that Ocasio Cortez could actually be controlled.
Crenshaw does appeal to the MAGA base. Will some of them buckle against him? Sure. But at the voting booth, they will still fall in line to a retired Special Forces veteran and commander who served this nation with honor and purpose. And he's certainly not supplicating to the MAGA base.
Hard line MAGA will still back a Republican first. And barring that, the Republican that will win that will keep a Democrat out of that seat. Even if that Republican irritates them.
Zow
Footballguy
I very much agree with the bold here. The MAGA faithful may hate him now, but come voting time he'll still have most of their votes easily.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Direct Headline: Democratic midterm fears mount as policies fail to resonate with voters
At the Democratic National Committee, Jaime Harrison, the party’s chair, has settled on the slogan, “Democrats deliver,” arguing that it allows the party to focus on the legislation it has passed and draw contrasts with Republicans.
By Tyler Pager, Sean Sullivan, Michael Scherer and Marianna Sotomayor November 29, 2021 6:00 a.m. EST
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democrats-midterms-fears/2021/11/28/b3d2280a-4d4d-11ec-94ad-bd85017d58dc_story.html
Direct Headline: The Mess Democrats Are In
If they fail to get their act together, they will suffer a defeat in the midterms that increases the likelihood of Donald Trump’s return to the White House.
By John Nichols November 12, 2021
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/dems-midterms/
Direct Headline: Retirements mount as House Democrats try to defend their majority in the 2022 midterms
Retirements can not only signal pessimism about a party’s ability to keep its majority but also can make districts without incumbents harder to retain.
Jacob Pramuk Mon, Oct 18 2021 7:44 PM EDT
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/house-democrat-retirements-mount-before-2022-midterm-elections.html
Direct Headline: Democrats Face Bleak Midterms as Polls Show Majority Will Vote for GOP Candidates
Midterm elections often benefit the party that is not in control of the White House.
By Darragh Roche On 11/9/21 at 10:23 AM EST
https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-bleak-midterms-polls-majority-vote-gop-candidates-2022-1647381
******
Nothing you are saying has any practical basis in actual political reality. But it's your free speech and your opinion. The mid terms naturally tend to lean towards the Party not holding POTUS. That's just plain political reality. Lots of incumbent Democrats in the HOR are retiring. Some will just lay this down on redistricting/gerrymandering, but it's not that simple. Susan Rice has shadow run this country into the ground, and the swell down the ticket is causing some to leave a sinking ship before it's too late. Donald Trump has moderately reemerged as a POTUS contender based on the disaster zone of this current administration. And it's only been one year. That enough reality for you? What will three more years bring? And DNC HQ believes it should print up bumper stickers that says DEMOCRATS DELIVER
Deliver what exactly? Billions in weapons with our dollars to arm terrorists who will kill generations of our future children? Hand over 11 and 12 year old girls to the Taliban and mules at the Southern Border as well as abandoning American women in Afghanistan to be gang raped? Massive inflation and general view of instability of our economy? Fear over how our children are being educated and indoctrinated? Having career criminals be empowered to hunt down average American citizens like prey based on idiotic woke leftist public policy regarding bail reform and cooked criminal justice reform? Having half the country be called racists, bigots and white supremacists for simply having a different political ideology? Vaccine mandates that highlight that you can't walk into a restaurant in NY without a purity test to ID yourself but if you are a child molester who wants to illegally cross the border to sodomize American children, when you'll just be ignored.
Feel free to explain how the GOP's problems are somehow more brutal than all of this?
I said nothing about Dems and midterms problems. The GOP is tied to a group that attacked the capitol to stop a democratic process. That's pretty dang bad.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
jamny said:
RE: If DeSantis would practically want to pick an African American as a VPOTUS candidate to split the ticket. And that a DeSantis/Crenshaw pairing of two white heterosexual males would start to create instant leftist counter narratives used to attack them both in a full general cycle.
*****
OK, you don't agree. I'm willing to hear you out. I'd like to hear why you don't agree.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Fellas, you "toe" a line. You toe a line with your feet and keep your balance without stepping over the line. You don't "tow" it, like a tow truck.
Just some idiom help here.
Just some idiom help here.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
No sweat, and it's not just you -- I've seen this all over the PSF over the past few days, actually. On this message board, if someone coins a phrase or introduces a cliché, other people hop right on it, especially one that has national traction. It's in our subconscious when we write. So I've seen it misused a bunch. Hope that my interlude here helps.
By the way, I hope people don't think I correct because I'm a ninny; I do it because we all have jobs and professional corresponding to do, and I know I've misused both dictionary definitions and idiom before in that capacity. I always groan over that previous iteration of me, and I often wish somebody would have told me the right definition or turn of phrase to use. So that's my real motivation. Everybody better and on point.
dkp993
Footballguy
Can you now please do the lords work and go out there an get all those people sayin “have your cake and it it too” to actually say it correctly. Please and thank you.
rockaction
Footballguy
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dkp993
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
jamny
Footballguy
Not really much to discuss.
I don't think DeSantis would need to pick an African American to win the election. Two white heterosexual males can still win, imo. The left will attack no matter who is on the ticket. Many people can see that picking a VP based solely on race or gender may not be what is best for the country See: Kamala Harris
