Democratic Debates (1 Viewer)

[SaintsInDome2006]

https://twitter.com/marwilliamson/status/1144831650783793152

Yang and Marianne Williamson both saying their mics were turned off for parts of the debate.  

They should have just excluded them if they were going to do that. I wonder if Yang will corroborate this.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

They should have just excluded them if they were going to do that. I wonder if Yang will corroborate this.

Looks like MSNBC is a threat to our democratic process.  

 

[dschuler]

Just watched both debates for most of my Sunday yesterday.  Overall a good collection of talent on stage with some key takeaways from me. 

1.  Media turned their backs on Biden. I felt bad for him after he gave his life to public works and they treated him like a pile of garbage afterwards.  

2.   I was most impressed with Pete Buttigieg the most, followed by Amy Klobuchar, John Delaney, and Booker (he has a great physical presence).  Pete sounded like a CEO on a quarterly conference call that just crushed earnings.  He’s got a bright future and seemed like the best speaker onstage.   

3.   The spotlight seemed to big for a few, notably Williamson, Gabbard, and Beto.  Castro sounded okay but his presence is severely lacking and I don’t think he can win based off the way he carries himself physically.  He has a Ted Cruz appearance like problem.  He looked like he was about to cry the entire time.  No way I see him standing up to Trump in a debate.  Stark contrast to Booker, who I feel like commands a presence and carries himself in a strong manner.   

4.  I think the DNC is playing with fire if they try to push Kamala down the throats for 2020 with the theme about racial inequality and political correctness, which they seem to be going down now.  What worked in 2008 will not work in 2020.  It’s the reason we have Trump now and would be an easy victory for him IMO.

5.  Bernie’s legacy is all the candidates currently running now, and the bar he shifted to make his ideas more mainstream progressive. But his time seems to have passed 4 years too late. 

6.  Too many candidates on the stage left for little actual debating, and instead seemed like an introduction of themselves to the American people.  

 

[ren hoek]

They should have just excluded them if they were going to do that. I wonder if Yang will corroborate this.

Already has: https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1144551813582135296

There's some more background here: https://heavy.com/news/2019/06/yang-mic-muted-debate-msnbc/

In the video it looks like others are able to speak up and call for attention, where Yang can't.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

4.  I think the DNC is playing with fire if they try to push Kamala down the throats for 2020 with the theme about racial inequality and political correctness, which they seem to be going down now.  What worked in 2008 will not work in 2020.  It’s the reason we have Trump now and would be an easy victory for him IMO.

I thought Harris was supposed to be one of the centrists in the race.  Then she decided to plant her flag on busing, of all things.  Taking a shot at Biden makes a lot of sense, but it would be hard to come up with a more counter-productive topic to use as a weapon, except maybe for reparations.  

My guess is that the whole busing thing will get memory-holed as soon as she locks up the nomination.

 

[timschochet]

I thought Harris was supposed to be one of the centrists in the race.  

She wants you to keep thinking this. She also wants the progressives to think she is one of them. She’s playing the Obama game. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

She wants you to keep thinking this. She also wants the progressives to think she is one of them. She’s playing the Obama game. 

Would Barack Obama have played the race card at literally his very first opportunity on a national stage?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Would Barack Obama have played the race card at literally his very first opportunity on a national stage?

Nope.   He stayed away from race consistently.  The couple times he went toward it during his campaigns or 8 years in office.....he got slaughtered for it.

 

[Van Dyman]

The heck with turning off the mics. It’s not enough. The next debate should be like the old “Gong Show” with the moderators able to stop any speech halfway through and kick the offender off the stage. 

Trap door to rancor. 

Know or Go

 

[timschochet]

Would Barack Obama have played the race card at literally his very first opportunity on a national stage?

Two points here: first, even in 2007 things were much slower than they are now. The speed at which this race is happening is incredible and a bit frightening. 

Second, the key to Harris’ attack wasn’t the issue, it was to fluster Biden and make him seem unsettled and indecisive. And that is exactly what Obama did to Hillary. The issue back then was drivers licensees for undocumented aliens. Just as with this issue, the base of the Democratic Party was far more to the left than the American public and Hillary, already thinking about the general election didn’t want to commit herself. Obama attacked her for it and made her seem indecisive. It’s a classic strategy. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Two points here: first, even in 2007 things were much slower than they are now. The speed at which this race is happening is incredible and a bit frightening. 

Second, the key to Harris’ attack wasn’t the issue, it was to fluster Biden and make him seem unsettled and indecisive. And that is exactly what Obama did to Hillary. The issue back then was drivers licensees for undocumented aliens. Just as with this issue, the base of the Democratic Party was far more to the left than the American public and Hillary, already thinking about the general election didn’t want to commit herself. Obama attacked her for it and made her seem indecisive. It’s a classic strategy. 

I had completely forgotten about that particular episode.  Good catch.

 

[saintfool]

Would Barack Obama have played the race card at literally his very first opportunity on a national stage?

Joe's missteps leading up to the debate set the stage for Kamala's broadside about race. He courted the controversy thinking he could simply smooth it over.

 

[The Commish]

Lmao

You're more dug in than I thought.

That's a shame

No, of course. That was glib of me. Southern Democrats also fought the public option in the ACA, which is why we are where we are. 

Question remains, with control of the house, senate and Presidency for two whole years, not a single bill presented to replace Obamacare....forget trying to get it passed. I'm talking about trying to get even a semblance of a bill together in committee.  

I mocked the Dems for derailing the public option, and I STILL believe that's the next logical step.  The GOP was able to achieve even less and have made things worse for the system since.  It's quite remarkable.  Healthcare is a complete ####show in this country.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

MSNBC will re=air the debates tonight at 7pm

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Kamala Harris clarified her position on busing yesterday.  It's . . . well, it's the same position that she criticized Joe Biden for holding:

WEST DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Sen. Kamala Harris said Wednesday that busing students should be considered by school districts trying to desegregate their locations — not the federal mandate she appeared to support in pointedly criticizing rival Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden last week.

Harris had a breakthrough moment at the candidates’ first debate when she criticized Biden for his opposition to mandatory school busing when he was a senator in the 1970s. Harris said she benefited from busing as an elementary school student in Berkeley, California, in the early 1970s.

“That’s where the federal government must step in,” Harris said, looking at Biden and winning a burst of applause from the auditorium in Miami.

https://www.apnews.com/586b1e81cb684654b0cf689b9074c1cb

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Sen. Kamala Harris said Wednesday that busing students should be considered by school districts trying to desegregate their locations — not the federal mandate she appeared to support in pointedly criticizing rival Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden last week.

Truly unbelievable.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Kamala Harris clarified her position on busing yesterday.  It's . . . well, it's the same position that she criticized Joe Biden for holding:

https://www.apnews.com/586b1e81cb684654b0cf689b9074c1cb

   There has to be someone better than her, Biden, or Warren.   Crazy the party won't push Mayor Pete.

 

[The General]

Kamala Harris clarified her position on busing yesterday.  It's . . . well, it's the same position that she criticized Joe Biden for holding:

https://www.apnews.com/586b1e81cb684654b0cf689b9074c1cb

Talking about this in the Biden thread. Pretty pathetic.

What was wrong with Biden's response again? 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Kamala Harris clarified her position on busing yesterday.  It's . . . well, it's the same position that she criticized Joe Biden for holding:

https://www.apnews.com/586b1e81cb684654b0cf689b9074c1cb

She is growing into her job description as a politician. 

 

[The General]

She is growing into her job description as a politician. 

I don't get why she would reverse this. Very odd.

That line alone vaulted her like 10 points, she obviously had it planned out and it landed like a Tyson uppercut. 

 

[themeanmachine]

She is growing into her job description as a politician. 

She’s gross, I hate this kind of stuff, and she does it often. I’d take any of the other Dem front runners over Harris.

 

[The Dude]

I think a candidate could do themselves a lot of good by saying immigrants will get medicare for all if they are paying into it.  Rather than the way it sounds right now - where they are giving it to everyone on the backs of taxpayers.

I think common ground is if you are paying in than you get the benefit.  There's no controversy in that (I think)

 

[The Dude]

She’s gross, I hate this kind of stuff, and she does it often. I’d take any of the other Dem front runners over Harris.

At the risk of asking - how is she gross?  That's a description that I would place few people into.

And since The General liked your post, he can comment as well.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

The question that the candidates were asked at the debate was whether they would cover undocumented immigrants in their plan, not pay for that coverage. But that distinction seems to have gotten lost

 

[Mystery Achiever]

For the record, here is what was asked regarding coverage of undocumented immigrants:

Raise your hand if—if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants.

GUTHRIE:
Okay. Let me start with you, Mayor Buttigieg. Why? Mayor Buttigieg, why?

BUTTIGIEG:
Because our country is healthier when everybody is healthier. And remember, we’re talking about something people are getting a—given a chance to buy into. In the same way that there are undocumented immigrants in my community who pay, they pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program. And we do ourselves no favor by having 11 million undocumented people in our country be unable to access healthcare...

 

[pecorino]

The path for Warren gets clearer everyday.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

The question that the candidates were asked at the debate was whether they would cover undocumented immigrants in their plan, not pay for that coverage. But that distinction seems to have gotten lost

That seems like a distinction without difference for the "Medicare for All" candidates.  I can see your argument with respect to candidates that have a plan that's not single payer.

 

[The Commish]

I think common ground is if you are paying in than you get the benefit.  There's no controversy in that (I think)

This makes you the bleedingest heart of bleeding hearts to a lot of people.  However, I agree with you.

 

[The Commish]

The question that the candidates were asked at the debate was whether they would cover undocumented immigrants in their plan, not pay for that coverage. But that distinction seems to have gotten lost

Lost?  No....intentionally twisted for maximum fear factor benefit?  Absolutely.

 

[ren hoek]

Her campaign had spent months fixated on Biden, whose support from black voters has kept him atop all of the early polls. They gamed out several scenarios in which she could use her personal story as a point of contrast with his decades-long record, including over his opposition to busing.

In the debate, Harris willed her way into the conversation about race and policing, calmly noting that as the only black person on the stage, she’d like to be heard.

But her opening first came last week when Biden offered nostalgic memories of a time when he worked with segregationist colleagues like Sens. James Eastland and Herman Talmadge, proponents of using states’ rights to slow walk civil rights legislation. Harris, whose sole experience with a full stage of competitors came during her Senate primary in 2016, prepped with a small team of aides in Washington and then in Miami. A senior strategist, Averell “Ace” Smith, imitated Sanders, while Biden was played by Harris’ national press secretary, Ian Sams.

While walking through her planned exchange with Biden over busing, Harris’ campaign planned for a variety of answers from him, from contrition to a more measured approach to the more forceful denial of the position that he ended up giving — a stance that was called out by fact-checkers as untrue given his past quotes rejecting the wisdom of busing.

Harris herself ended up settling on a line that within minutes would appear in social media memes and just a few hours later would be screen printed on t-shirts selling for $29 on her website: “That little girl was me,” she said, of her desegregated class.

-Politico

The busing attack, and almost certainly the ‘that little girl was me’ t-shirt gag, had been plotted for months.  

 

[ren hoek]

https://twitter.com/maxblumenthal/status/1145464146097516544

 

[Mystery Achiever]

That seems like a distinction without difference for the "Medicare for All" candidates.  I can see your argument with respect to candidates that have a plan that's not single payer.

But aren't people still paying in through taxes? Wasn't that Sanders' point acknowledging taxes would go up ( though offset via premiums, lower costs)?

 

[Mystery Achiever]

Lost?  No....intentionally twisted for maximum fear factor benefit?  Absolutely.

There's some spin going on, for sure. There's also some general confusion, though, with "Medicare For All"  seeming to be used by candidates to mean different things. Not to mention getting cute with it, i.e. Medicare For All who Want It. (No offense, Pete Fans.)

 

[The Commish]

There's some spin going on, for sure. There's also some general confusion, though, with "Medicare For All"  seeming to be used by candidates to mean different things. Not to mention getting cute with it, i.e. Medicare For All who Want It. (No offense, Pete Fans.)

Agree 100%  

That's why it's important, for me anyway, to be able to read their plans/proposals.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

Oh, I left out the popular "I want to get to Medicare For All, but for now...."

 

[AAABatteries]

I kind of agree with you in the sense it’s probably an unpopular policy point, but everything with Trump occurs outside of policy discussions. Did you see this Trump response when he was asked about busing?

That’s why I laugh about topic X or Y or the economy or anything else being THE issue.  If you listen to this guy say idiotic stuff like this and are still willing to vote for him then you would vote for any R.  The issue is what team are you on - he’s on team R, that’s all that matters.  It doesn’t matter that he’s almost definitely not a Christian, it doesn’t matter that he dodged going to war, doesn’t matter that he lies constantly, doesn’t matter that he said he grabs women by the genitals without permission, doesn’t matter that he cheated on his wife with a porn star.  

 

[The General]

At the risk of asking - how is she gross?  That's a description that I would place few people into.

And since The General liked your post, he can comment as well.

I didn’t like it I was thinking or whatever that other one is.

I felt this attack on Biden was bull####. It was 40 years ago in a political environment. You don’t get to do what you want all the time or be perfect in that world. 

She prepped for it and pounced. He should have been prepared but in this culture what can he say where he’s not going to piss off a bunch of ####### twitter people. He just had to stand up there and take it. His answer was fine but because he stood up there and didn’t cut her off and have some glib line he’s now out of touch or whatever. He was in a no win situation. 

She then has the audacity to flip a week later on it.

Thats gross.  

 

[The General]

https://twitter.com/maxblumenthal/status/1145464146097516544

You are a nut. But I always like reading your posts.

 

[The General]

Her campaign had spent months fixated on Biden, whose support from black voters has kept him atop all of the early polls. They gamed out several scenarios in which she could use her personal story as a point of contrast with his decades-long record, including over his opposition to busing.

In the debate, Harris willed her way into the conversation about race and policing, calmly noting that as the only black person on the stage, she’d like to be heard.

But her opening first came last week when Biden offered nostalgic memories of a time when he worked with segregationist colleagues like Sens. James Eastland and Herman Talmadge, proponents of using states’ rights to slow walk civil rights legislation. Harris, whose sole experience with a full stage of competitors came during her Senate primary in 2016, prepped with a small team of aides in Washington and then in Miami. A senior strategist, Averell “Ace” Smith, imitated Sanders, while Biden was played by Harris’ national press secretary, Ian Sams.

While walking through her planned exchange with Biden over busing, Harris’ campaign planned for a variety of answers from him, from contrition to a more measured approach to the more forceful denial of the position that he ended up giving — a stance that was called out by fact-checkers as untrue given his past quotes rejecting the wisdom of busing.

Harris herself ended up settling on a line that within minutes would appear in social media memes and just a few hours later would be screen printed on t-shirts selling for $29 on her website: “That little girl was me,” she said, of her desegregated class.

-Politico

The busing attack, and almost certainly the ‘that little girl was me’ t-shirt gag, had been plotted for months.  

Whoever this guy is is like he’s writing from inside my head.

 

[The General]

I don’t even particularly like Biden it’s just some crap that Harris pulled and I don’t like it and I find her boring and mechanical. Whatever, she’s eviscerate Trump and that would be fun

I’ve been drinking beers all afternoon. About to make some dinner and watch some #### blow up and have tomorrow off. It’s a good day .

Happy 4th everyone. 

 

[ren hoek]

I didn’t like it I was thinking or whatever that other one is.

I felt this attack on Biden was bull####. It was 40 years ago in a political environment. You don’t get to do what you want all the time or be perfect in that world. 

She prepped for it and pounced. He should have been prepared but in this culture what can he say where he’s not going to piss off a bunch of ####### twitter people. He just had to stand up there and take it. His answer was fine but because he stood up there and didn’t cut her off and have some glib line he’s now out of touch or whatever. He was in a no win situation. 

She then has the audacity to flip a week later on it.

Thats gross.  

So that stuff about commenting as the only black person on stage was obviously political as well.  It wasn't about being owed response time because she was black, it was about launching a line of attack they'd been devising for months.  

That might be why Biden looked like someone who'd been betrayed by a friend.  His African American base is everything. 

 

[badmojo1006]

Have a Whiskey with Kristen Gillibrand.

Seems a little desperate

 

[themeanmachine]

At the risk of asking - how is she gross?  That's a description that I would place few people into.

And since The General liked your post, he can comment as well.

I think the transparent pandering and lying is gross. A ton of politicians do this, but it’s just so obvious with her. I have no doubt she’ll pander to the left to try to get the nomination, and if she does, she’ll turn on a dime to pander to the center to win the general. And of course they’ll all do this to some degree. But I believe Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, and Biden have a set of core values that create some boundaries. Harris’ behavior tells me she likely doesn’t. 

 

[ren hoek]

Have a Whiskey with Kristen Gillibrand.

Seems a little desperate

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1098000310713401344

 

[Henry Ford]

Have a Whiskey with Kristen Gillibrand.

Seems a little desperate

It’s been around for a bit.  Not that she wasn’t at all desperate then, but it isn’t brand new or anything. Happened right after the Q&A came out. 

 

[Mystery Achiever]

Live drawing July 18 to determine who will debate which night

I'm surprised NBC didn't milk this, too. This article also answers a question I had about the previous round. It was NBC who decided which night each group would debate. THey didn't just get lucky. h More Details  )
This next round will be totally random.

 

[wikkidpissah]

Live drawing July 18 to determine who will debate which night

I'm surprised NBC didn't milk this, too. This article also answers a question I had about the previous round. It was NBC who decided which night each group would debate. THey didn't just get lucky. h More Details  )
This next round will be totally random.

wouldn't have a drawing for who will watch be easier?

 

[identikit]

The CNN rules for the next debate:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/politics/cnn-debate-rules/index.html

I knew the 'raise your hands/one word answer' part of the debate would be gone.

Heaven forbid a candidate has to give a clear answer.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

Well, this one will be fun. Not inviting criticism of favoritism or anything like that.
"A candidate who consistently interrupts will have his or her time reduced."

 

[identikit]

Lineup for the next Dem debate:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/politics/2020-democratic-candidates-cnn-debate/index.html

Looks like Montana Governor Steve Bullock takes the Swalwell spot.

Everyone else returns.