Do NFL Cheerleaders deserve minimum wage? (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

FWIW...commissioned sales pro's are still gaurenteed minimum wage. If their commissions don't exceed minimal wage- employers must make it up.

Servers and food delivery guys likewise are gaurenteed. If their tips don't take them over minimum wage- employers must make it up.

The truth is that only seasonal workers are actually gaurenteed less than minimal wage, but even this is misleading, because those workers often recieve room and board- even if said room and board is in shacks and community meals. Seasonal workers in this case refers mostly to migrant farm workers.

Most of the "exceptions" spoken of in this thread aren't exceptions at all.

If the reports are accurate, it's exploitive and they should be paid.

 

[daveR]

I think the minimum I would pay as an owner would be $100 a day plus expenses. Maybe twice that.

 

[Sabertooth]

If Blaine Gabbert is worth millions, these chicks are worth much, much more.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Just a short update:

The Bills have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit against them. Their claim is that they don't have anything to do with the Buffalo Bills other than they lease the rights to a third party company that also does concessions and parking. So the team itself doesn't employ the cheerleaders or have anything to do with how they are run.

 

[daveR]

Pay 'em, already!

 

[GridironMenace]

Since when is anyone guaranteed a 'living wage'? If these cheerleaders don't like it, then they can find a new job. Pretty much that simple. If no one wants to work as an NFL cheerleader, then these teams will be forced to raise the wage. It's not very hard to understand.

 

[ffgiant]

It is disgusting to find out how many my favorite cheerleaders got treated. How many billions dollars NFL make? Cannot afford giving a decent paycheck to those cheerleaders? Capitalism at its worst!

 

[GridironMenace]

^that's not the point.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

It is disgusting to find out how many my favorite cheerleaders got treated. How many billions dollars NFL make? Cannot afford giving a decent paycheck to those cheerleaders? Capitalism at its worst!

Does anyone even notice them if they aren't on the jumbotron? Let em go. Don't need them and they don't add anything to the enjoyment of the game.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Does anyone even notice them if they aren't on the jumbotron?

Hell yes. Huge draw and great PR for some teams.

Raiderettes and Gold Rush absolutely kill it.

 

[Mario Kart]

http://www.dolphinscheerleaders.com/cheerleader_photos/sams-photos

Yes, she deserves all the pennies I can afford. Pay her!!!!

Can be seen in action here ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIfbghHdG1s

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://www.dolphinscheerleaders.com/cheerleader_photos/sams-photos

Yes, she deserves all the pennies I can afford. Pay her!!!!

Can be seen in action here ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIfbghHdG1s

Fantastic, yeah this thread is lacking... more data for purposes of discussion.

http://www.dolphinscheerleaders.com/cheerleader_photos/sams-photos?pid=4677#photo_top

 

[daveR]

^that's not the point.

That, unfortunately, IS the point.

The attitude that says, "If you can screw someone over & make a buck, do it!", is so much bullchit !!!

Being a good human being is WAY more important than being a good capitalist. People matter, money doesn't!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

^that's not the point.

That, unfortunately, IS the point.

The attitude that says, "If you can screw someone over & make a buck, do it!", is so much bullchit !!!

Being a good human being is WAY more important than being a good capitalist. People matter, money doesn't!

Explain again, why are these girls doing it if they're being skrewed?

 

[daveR]

My guess is that they perceive the job, initially at least, as "glamorous".

 

[daveR]

And, their employers are exploiting that naivete.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

My guess is that they perceive the job, initially at least, as "glamorous".

And, their employers are exploiting that naivete.

It is glamorous. And I don't think any of these girls just do cheerleading as their one single job, and those who do are students who are trying to get somewhere. Take a look at the bios (they come with the pics btw). Seems odd to laud them on the one hand and then say they're naive on the other.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The attitude that says, "If you can screw someone over & make a buck, do it!", is so much bullchit !!!

 

[Christo]

My guess is that they perceive the job, initially at least, as "glamorous".

And, their employers are exploiting that naivete.

If that were true then there would be a quick turnover once they discover the lack of "glamour."

 

[BigSteelThrill]

My guess is that they perceive the job, initially at least, as "glamorous".

And, their employers are exploiting that naivete.

If that were true then there would be a quick turnover once they discover the lack of "glamour."

Or when they gain 3 lbs. Either way.

 

[Azhais]

Having not read the rest of the thread I'd just like to say that there is nobody on earth that I hate enough to say they deserve minimum wage. Nobody deserves to try and live on $16k a year

 

[loqutis]

All contracts signed by normal employees upon hire are BS. the new hire has zero leverage. "Sign the contract or we'll hire someone else." That's not exactly a fair hiring practice. It's exploitation plain and simple. If the law didn't step in to fight for human rights and labor laws, we would all be in the same boat.

 

[daveR]

My guess is that they perceive the job, initially at least, as "glamorous".

And, their employers are exploiting that naivete.

If that were true then there would be a quick turnover once they discover the lack of "glamour."

How quick IS the turnover? What do the numbers say?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Seems like the solution to this is that they're just going to make it a volunteer position. Plenty of people would do it for free.

Do the ball-boys in tennis and the dudes that wipe the floor down in basketball get minimum wage?

 

[Azhais]

Seems like the solution to this is that they're just going to make it a volunteer position. Plenty of people would do it for free.

Do the ball-boys in tennis and the dudes that wipe the floor down in basketball get minimum wage?

Ballboys get minimum wage, free clothes, free food, and tickets to the tournaments

 

[daveR]

Seems like the solution to this is that they're just going to make it a volunteer position. Plenty of people would do it for free.

Do the ball-boys in tennis and the dudes that wipe the floor down in basketball get minimum wage?

I'd do it! Hell, I'd even shave one of my legs!

 

[ldizzle]

I still cant believe that this is still a top post in the shark pool. I wish there was a feature to ignore threads

 

[daveR]

,

 

[RUSF18]

,

Thinking of a career change?

 

[daveR]

Seems like the solution to this is that they're just going to make it a volunteer position. Plenty of people would do it for free.

Do the ball-boys in tennis and the dudes that wipe the floor down in basketball get minimum wage?

I gotta hope so.

 

[cr8f]

If they are paid as subcontractors legally then no, if they are paid salaries then no too, but they could strike and get a new contract. $125 a game is very low.

 

[hxperson]

I'm not sure where to go here, being an NFL cheerleader is a really a part-time gig. These woman are beautiful and could easily find something else and way more profitable to do with their time if they wish too. Lets face it, theres such a huge competition to be a cheerleader not for the pay but to be on TV, meet / party with the players & celebs. Its supply and demand, if the job didn't pay anything I bet they still wouldn't have a problem finding woman to do this. Sueing the league won't get them anywhere imo, they need to unionize and then strike.

None of those things negates minimum wage laws. It's insane that they would require girls to visit specific high priced slaons at their own expense while paying less than McDonalds. Nobody is trying to say they should be well paid- as argued, the real advantage for these girls is not nor ever will be the paycheck.

then they should go do something else, its hard for me to feel sorry for them when theres line around the block of woman tripping other themselves to get the position. Yeah they have to pay for a couple of things out of their pockets but what about all the perks they get when go out and tell people their an NFL Cheerleader. I bet these woman haven't paid for a drink or dinner in years. If its such a bad gig then why is there a hugh competition for it? Because they know the perks that come with it out weigh the costs.

As an aside, and not aiming this comment at you (I don't have any clue how you even feel on the subject)...

But I found myself wondering how many people would agree with you on every one of those points when applied to cheerleaders, but would argue against every point if they were applied as reasons why college football players don't need to be paid. They pretty much all apply. There's thousands of lower division players who would love to get the current player's compensation and take their spot, and the benefits about being able to say they are a football player for the college are there, and the coaching they receive plus the free opportunity for education are huge perks.

I have a big problem with the "line around the block for your job" statement, as you can use that for pretty much any job out there right now given where unemployment is in America. What makes Cheerleading so much worse than other jobs paying minimum wage to justify throwing out the rules here? Whether minimum wage laws are justifiable or not is certainly worth debating, but for the purposes of this case that is irrelevant and I'm having a hard time seeing why cheerleading should be exempt from the law in those places where minimum wages apply (with no seasonal operator exemptions).

 

[Rick James]

Cheerleaders don't DO anything. You could remove them from the sidelines and the NFL wouldn't skip a beat. If they don't like the pay, they can quit.

 

[SelenaCat]

Whether you think they add value to the game or not doesn't change the fact that employees should have a legal right to fair compensation.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

To sum up for the late-comers:

On the "pay them" side:

• The NFL as a whole makes gazillions of dollars. They can afford to give these folks a decent wage for their efforts. Cheer-leading directly leads to large revenues for some teams, and it's ony fair the cheerleaders themselves see some of that.
• Cheerleaders don't really belong in any of the "exceptions" categories allowed by law.
• Many of the cheer-leading management organizations seem to treat the cheerleaders rather poorly in general (and apparently, REALLY poorly in some reported cases).

On the other side:

• The cheerleaders do belong in one of the legally excepted from min wage categories. This has been ruled on by courts already.
• There are a lot of people who want these positions AND who could perform the duties equally (or nearly equally) well. Some teams already have volunteer cheerleaders, and it would be relatively simple for all NFL teams to convert to volunteer squads (or clear contract scenarios).
• Not all teams have paid cheerleaders and don't seem to want them. If cheer-leading is such a direct and easy revenue stream, seems obvious that all teams would want to have them. Not too many folks accusing individual NFL teams of wanting to leave money on the table.
• The cheerleaders are typically not taking these jobs strictly as a direct career goal, but are deriving significant career enhancing benefits in other, related entertainment fields. This is one of the big reasons they are interested in taking less money than they could make elsewhere, and there is a lot of evidence to support the positions do help the other career goals (acting etc). This is in direct opposition to most other positions where the minimum wage tends to apply. Fast food workers don't turn down better paying jobs to become fast-food workers. One of the plaintiffs came right out and said she was making more as a cheerleader elsewhere and chose to cheerlead for an NFL team for less money instead.
• As with other professions where the minimum wage might be applied but is exempted, there are other direct financial benefits to being an NFL cheerleader. In addition to perks (season tickets etc), there are financial opportunities not otherwise available without being a cheerleader for a given team (paid appearances). Just like the Mercedes salesman might be (legally) making "less than minimum wage", he or she might be clearing a large net income due to other compensation. These opportunities may vary by team, but could represent a significant portion of the cheerleader's overall income. Not everyone is convinced that cheerleaders don't make over minimum wage all things considered. We have only the word of one lawyer in the middle of a law suit against a team that suggests the cheerleaders net compensation would be under minimum wage. That calculation relied on some dubious math and included time spent that is typically not expected to be "paid time".

 

[FUBAR]

Whether you think they add value to the game or not doesn't change the fact that employees should have a legal right to fair compensation.

ok

now define fair.

 

[daveR]

Whether you think they add value to the game or not doesn't change the fact that employees should have a legal right to fair compensation.

ok

now define fair.

I think that ending up on the plus side monetarily would be a start...

 

[SelenaCat]

daveR, on 12 Jun 2014 - 4:02 PM, said:

FUBAR, on 12 Jun 2014 - 3:59 PM, said:

SelenaCat, on 12 Jun 2014 - 2:37 PM, said:Whether you think they add value to the game or not doesn't change the fact that employees should have a legal right to fair compensation.

ok

now define fair.

I think that ending up on the plus side monetarily would be a start...

I won't get into the argument as to whether minimum wage is in fact fair or not, but when they are required to make appearances and conform to certain stipulations (some of which I suspect aren't legal, along the lines of the "bounce" test), they should at least be making minimum wage for their time. The "provides career boosts" argument is the whole slippery slope of exploitation that unpaid interns face, and the courts have definitely been siding with the need for compensation in those cases recently.

 

[fatness]

Judge Denies Bills' Attempt to dismiss Lawsuit by Former Buffalo Jills

Tuesday's decision means the discovery process will move forward, and both sides, including the Bills, will be required to produce documents and answers.

In his ruling the judge said, "... there is at least a question of fact as to whether the agreement could legitimately treat the Plaintiffs as independent contractors and whether it is invalid for failure to specify the amount of the employees' compensation."

 

[Godsbrother]

To sum up for the late-comers:

On the "pay them" side:

• The NFL as a whole makes gazillions of dollars. They can afford to give these folks a decent wage for their efforts. Cheer-leading directly leads to large revenues for some teams, and it's ony fair the cheerleaders themselves see some of that.
• Cheerleaders don't really belong in any of the "exceptions" categories allowed by law.
• Many of the cheer-leading management organizations seem to treat the cheerleaders rather poorly in general (and apparently, REALLY poorly in some reported cases).

On the other side:

• The cheerleaders do belong in one of the legally excepted from min wage categories. This has been ruled on by courts already.
• There are a lot of people who want these positions AND who could perform the duties equally (or nearly equally) well. Some teams already have volunteer cheerleaders, and it would be relatively simple for all NFL teams to convert to volunteer squads (or clear contract scenarios).
• Not all teams have paid cheerleaders and don't seem to want them. If cheer-leading is such a direct and easy revenue stream, seems obvious that all teams would want to have them. Not too many folks accusing individual NFL teams of wanting to leave money on the table.

The cheerleader's work for the individual teams so it doesn't matter what the NFL makes as a whole. If they have a problem with the pay, work conditions, etc. they need to take it up with the teams they work for instead of the league..

 

[Eminence]

I don't know, being a cheerleader for a major NFL team essentially guarantees you can marry an NFL player. Divorce him and you're probably set for life. That's worth at least as much as minimum wage, imo.

 

[CalBear]

I don't know, being a cheerleader for a major NFL team essentially guarantees you can marry an NFL player. Divorce him and you're probably set for life. That's worth at least as much as minimum wage, imo.

In a thread full of stupid posts, this might be the stupidest.

 

[Sweet Love]

Cheerleaders don't DO anything. You could remove them from the sidelines and the NFL wouldn't skip a beat. If they don't like the pay, they can quit.

Then why don't NFL teams just do that? The Bills shouldn't subject themselves to being sued, just cut the program. If teams who do have cheerleaders, but are not being sued yet, why would them bother keeping them around with a potential law suit hanging over them? They keep them around because the do add value at some level.

I just think this is a bizarre thing for teams to fight. If they get them through a third party, insist the vendor you use pay them minimum wage. If you have 20 cheerleaders and pay them $100 day, it is $2000/day, over the course of 10-12 home games (including playoffs and preseason). Really? All of this over $20k?

 

[Warrior]

daveR, on 12 Jun 2014 - 4:02 PM, said:

FUBAR, on 12 Jun 2014 - 3:59 PM, said:

SelenaCat, on 12 Jun 2014 - 2:37 PM, said:Whether you think they add value to the game or not doesn't change the fact that employees should have a legal right to fair compensation.

ok

now define fair.

I think that ending up on the plus side monetarily would be a start...

I won't get into the argument as to whether minimum wage is in fact fair or not, but when they are required to make appearances and conform to certain stipulations (some of which I suspect aren't legal, along the lines of the "bounce" test), they should at least be making minimum wage for their time. The "provides career boosts" argument is the whole slippery slope of exploitation that unpaid interns face, and the courts have definitely been siding with the need for compensation in those cases recently.

So if they aren't "fairly" compensated, why are so many of them taking the jobs? Even more than that, I guarantee 50 girls are right there willing to take the place of anyone who leaves because they aren't "fairly" compensated.

Some people are very short sighted.

 

[RUSF18]

daveR, on 12 Jun 2014 - 4:02 PM, said:

FUBAR, on 12 Jun 2014 - 3:59 PM, said:

SelenaCat, on 12 Jun 2014 - 2:37 PM, said:Whether you think they add value to the game or not doesn't change the fact that employees should have a legal right to fair compensation.

ok

now define fair.

I think that ending up on the plus side monetarily would be a start...

I won't get into the argument as to whether minimum wage is in fact fair or not, but when they are required to make appearances and conform to certain stipulations (some of which I suspect aren't legal, along the lines of the "bounce" test), they should at least be making minimum wage for their time. The "provides career boosts" argument is the whole slippery slope of exploitation that unpaid interns face, and the courts have definitely been siding with the need for compensation in those cases recently.

So if they aren't "fairly" compensated, why are so many of them taking the jobs? Even more than that, I guarantee 50 girls are right there willing to take the place of anyone who leaves because they aren't "fairly" compensated.

Some people are very short sighted.

Same arguments have been made (even in this thread) as it pertains to unpaid internships. Courts are starting to strike those down and say they need to be paid minimum wage as well.

 

[BaBastage]

So if they aren't "fairly" compensated, why are so many of them taking the jobs? Even more than that, I guarantee 50 girls are right there willing to take the place of anyone who leaves because they aren't "fairly" compensated.

Some people are very short sighted.

This isn't about whether there are people out there willing to do a job for less than someone else.

It's about whether the employer is breaking federal law by paying less than the mandated minimum wage.

Or are you saying that minimum wage should be abolished and leave *all* pay rates open to a free, unrestricted market?

 

[daveR]

So if they aren't "fairly" compensated, why are so many of them taking the jobs? Even more than that, I guarantee 50 girls are right there willing to take the place of anyone who leaves because they aren't "fairly" compensated.

Some people are very short sighted.

This isn't about whether there are people out there willing to do a job for less than someone else.

It's about whether the employer is breaking federal law by paying less than the mandated minimum wage.

Or are you saying that minimum wage should be abolished and leave *all* pay rates open to a free, unrestricted market?

To me, it's all EFFIN' ridiculous! We're arguing about MINIMUM wage. ANYBODY who does ANYTHING deserves that much, at least!

 

[KellysHeroes]

This makes for some good PR

https://gma.yahoo.com/40-old-mom-becomes-orleans-saints-cheerleader-141936240.html

 

[daveR]

They gonna get paid in 2014?

 

[Tchula]

You know if we were allowed to stick dollar bills in their uniforms as tips this wouldn't even be an issue. Win-win right?