Does McAllister 2006 = Henry 2004? (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Back in the day, many people debated as to how much a role Willis McGahee would play for the Bills with Travis Henry coming off of back-to-back solid seasons. And we all know how that played out.

This year, we have Reggie Bush and Deuce McAllister in New Orleans, and I'm curious if people think this will evolve into a similar situation. McAllister posted similar numbers to Henry (probably a little bit better), but unlike the Bills situation, McAllister is the recovering player (vs McGahee being the one that was coming back from injury).

I see Bush taking the reins and not looking back and Deuce getting phased out as he will be sluggish in his recovery and Bush doing well. What happens to McAllister beyond this year is a mystery (and perhaps could occur on another franchise).

What do others think about this situation looking solely at this season?

 

[mojorizin]

McAllister is no better than RB3 and falling as far as I'm concerned. Injuries aside, he has still looked awful for two years running. Price for Bush is too high until I'm convinced he can take an NFL pounding as a #1 back. I'm avoiding both.

 

[switz]

Back in the day, many people debated as to how much a role Willis McGahee would play for the Bills with Travis Henry coming off of back-to-back solid seasons. And we all know how that played out.This year, we have Reggie Bush and Deuce McAllister in New Orleans, and I'm curious if people think this will evolve into a similar situation. McAllister posted similar numbers to Henry (probably a little bit better), but unlike the Bills situation, McAllister is the recovering player (vs McGahee being the one that was coming back from injury).I see Bush taking the reins and not looking back and Deuce getting phased out as he will be sluggish in his recovery and Bush doing well. What happens to McAllister beyond this year is a mystery (and perhaps could occur on another franchise).What do others think about this situation looking solely at this season?

I don't really see McAllister holding up if he's given a heavy workload. I wouldn't be surprised if carries were split down the middle 10-12 each at the begining of the season, and Bush just getting a greater share of carries each game.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Back in the day, many people debated as to how much a role Willis McGahee would play for the Bills with Travis Henry coming off of back-to-back solid seasons. And we all know how that played out.This year, we have Reggie Bush and Deuce McAllister in New Orleans, and I'm curious if people think this will evolve into a similar situation. McAllister posted similar numbers to Henry (probably a little bit better), but unlike the Bills situation, McAllister is the recovering player (vs McGahee being the one that was coming back from injury).I see Bush taking the reins and not looking back and Deuce getting phased out as he will be sluggish in his recovery and Bush doing well. What happens to McAllister beyond this year is a mystery (and perhaps could occur on another franchise).What do others think about this situation looking solely at this season?

I'm avoiding McAllister in all my leagues. I havent been impressed with his play when healthy in sometime, let alone now he is comming off injury, and is competeing against Jesus on Cleats. Bush is by far the one to grab in my mind, but a price so costly, you have to have the fiath to do it.

 

[thecardiackid]

McAllister is no better than RB3 and falling as far as I'm concerned. Injuries aside, he has still looked awful for two years running. Price for Bush is too high until I'm convinced he can take an NFL pounding as a #1 back. I'm avoiding both.

 

[saintfool]

given the poor play of the saints defense thusfar, i think they will try to be very ball control oriented. they will try to commit to pounding the ball and it would seem deuce is better suited for that than bush. once they fall behind then the scheme switches to one better suited for bush's skill set. the upside is and has been with bush but don't bury deuce just yet.

 

[Z-Dog]

The primary difference for me is the goaline issue. McGahee is a very powerful back, and could compete with Henry in every phase of the game, including short yardage. Also, Henry is a bit of a ########, whereas here, Bush is the more limited player when it comes to the traditional RB role, and is a bit of a ########.

Anyway, here's the deal. McAllister's contract is prohibitive. The Saints can't cut him this year, and they can't cut or trade him next year either, from my understanding. Given these cap realities, I think the Saints are honestly going to try to integrate them both into the offense.

Bush isn't a short-yardage back or a goaline back. McAllister will hold those roles. Also, Bush can be on the field at the same time as McAllister b/c Bush can line up in the slot.

For only this year, I still see McAllister with decent TD numbers, and something like 800-1000 yards on 200ish carries.

 

[ImTheScientist]

The primary difference for me is the goaline issue. McGahee is a very powerful back, and could compete with Henry in every phase of the game, including short yardage. Also, Henry is a bit of a ########, whereas here, Bush is the more limited player when it comes to the traditional RB role, and is a bit of a ########.

Anyway, here's the deal. McAllister's contract is prohibitive. The Saints can't cut him this year, and they can't cut or trade him next year either, from my understanding. Given these cap realities, I think the Saints are honestly going to try to integrate them both into the offense.

Bush isn't a short-yardage back or a goaline back. McAllister will hold those roles. Also, Bush can be on the field at the same time as McAllister b/c Bush can line up in the slot.

For only this year, I still see McAllister with decent TD numbers, and something like 800-1000 yards on 200ish carries.

I did not know this could happen in the NFL ....

 

[mojorizin]

The primary difference for me is the goaline issue. McGahee is a very powerful back, and could compete with Henry in every phase of the game, including short yardage. Also, Henry is a bit of a ########, whereas here, Bush is the more limited player when it comes to the traditional RB role, and is a bit of a ########.

Anyway, here's the deal. McAllister's contract is prohibitive. The Saints can't cut him this year, and they can't cut or trade him next year either, from my understanding. Given these cap realities, I think the Saints are honestly going to try to integrate them both into the offense.

Bush isn't a short-yardage back or a goaline back. McAllister will hold those roles. Also, Bush can be on the field at the same time as McAllister b/c Bush can line up in the slot.

For only this year, I still see McAllister with decent TD numbers, and something like 800-1000 yards on 200ish carries.

I did not know this could happen in the NFL ....

I dont know the terms, but if the team takes a $5 million dollar salary cap hit for dumping him, they might as well keep him rostered and suited up. They may not owe salary, but the signing bonuses and such get rated against the cap. Thats how they get away with cap-onomics

 

[doughboydeluxe]

The primary difference for me is the goaline issue. McGahee is a very powerful back, and could compete with Henry in every phase of the game, including short yardage. Also, Henry is a bit of a ########, whereas here, Bush is the more limited player when it comes to the traditional RB role, and is a bit of a ########.

Anyway, here's the deal. McAllister's contract is prohibitive. The Saints can't cut him this year, and they can't cut or trade him next year either, from my understanding. Given these cap realities, I think the Saints are honestly going to try to integrate them both into the offense.

Bush isn't a short-yardage back or a goaline back. McAllister will hold those roles. Also, Bush can be on the field at the same time as McAllister b/c Bush can line up in the slot.

For only this year, I still see McAllister with decent TD numbers, and something like 800-1000 yards on 200ish carries.

First, I don't get the impression that Bush is a doosh. He didn't hold out, he's not a media whore like TO, and he's helping the New Orleans community already.Second, New Orleans can cut or trade Deuce next year and not take a huge cap hit. There's more info on his contract situation in this thread.

 

[ImTheScientist]

The primary difference for me is the goaline issue. McGahee is a very powerful back, and could compete with Henry in every phase of the game, including short yardage. Also, Henry is a bit of a ########, whereas here, Bush is the more limited player when it comes to the traditional RB role, and is a bit of a ########.

Anyway, here's the deal. McAllister's contract is prohibitive. The Saints can't cut him this year, and they can't cut or trade him next year either, from my understanding. Given these cap realities, I think the Saints are honestly going to try to integrate them both into the offense.

Bush isn't a short-yardage back or a goaline back. McAllister will hold those roles. Also, Bush can be on the field at the same time as McAllister b/c Bush can line up in the slot.

For only this year, I still see McAllister with decent TD numbers, and something like 800-1000 yards on 200ish carries.

I did not know this could happen in the NFL ....

I dont know the terms, but if the team takes a $5 million dollar salary cap hit for dumping him, they might as well keep him rostered and suited up. They may not owe salary, but the signing bonuses and such get rated against the cap. Thats how they get away with cap-onomics

I would just like some facts as to:1) When does Duece's contract run out

2) Cap hit if he is cut next year/traded

These FACTS may lead us to some idea of if a Henry/McGahee situation may take place this year

 

[valhallan]

Injuries aside, he has still looked awful for two years running.

This is key. Deuce hasn't been good since '03. Period. End of story. There is simply no reason to think he is a quality NFL starter anymore.

 

[3nOut]

I think McAllister is Bush's handcuff. I was doing a draft using Draft Dominator last night and came across an interesting situation. I drafted Bush and when it came to my turn to pick again, I was given the option of selected McAllister and Thomas Jones. Doesn't matter who I picked, the fact that I had to give it some thought before I decided in itself told me something.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Deuce signed an extension before last season that keeps him in a Saints uni until 2010. The signing bonus was 12.5 mill and the total contract is about 51 mill, if I recall correctly. Second only to LT and Portis at the RB position.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Deuce signed an extension before last season that keeps him in a Saints uni until 2010. The signing bonus was 12.5 mill and the total contract is about 51 mill, if I recall correctly. Second only to LT and Portis at the RB position.

Your right...just checked that linkHe will be forced to restructure his contract next year .... can't have two 50mil RB contracts on one team.

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

Deuce signed an extension before last season that keeps him in a Saints uni until 2010. The signing bonus was 12.5 mill and the total contract is about 51 mill, if I recall correctly. Second only to LT and Portis at the RB position.

Your right...just checked that linkHe will be forced to restructure his contract next year .... can't have two 50mil RB contracts on one team.

Agreed - the saints need to contract some of those guys that work on the contracts for Snyder in Washington

 

[mojorizin]

Injuries aside, he has still looked awful for two years running.

This is key. Deuce hasn't been good since '03. Period. End of story. There is simply no reason to think he is a quality NFL starter anymore.

IMO McAllister is one of those darlings that happen all the time nowadays. No real reason to think he'd be an NFL force, but all of a sudden the stars aline, he gets some holes and he looks like a helluva player. The team hits the skids, he doesnt have 5 ft holes to run through en route to 1500 yard season and he looks incredibly average again. He's only what, 28? Unless he goes somewhere that his big butt gets some good sized holes, I dont think we'll be drafting him early again.

 

[red]

Injuries aside, he has still looked awful for two years running.

This is key. Deuce hasn't been good since '03. Period. End of story. There is simply no reason to think he is a quality NFL or fantasy football starter anymore.

fixed

 

[Z-Dog]

The primary difference for me is the goaline issue. McGahee is a very powerful back, and could compete with Henry in every phase of the game, including short yardage. Also, Henry is a bit of a ########, whereas here, Bush is the more limited player when it comes to the traditional RB role, and is a bit of a ########.

Anyway, here's the deal. McAllister's contract is prohibitive. The Saints can't cut him this year, and they can't cut or trade him next year either, from my understanding. Given these cap realities, I think the Saints are honestly going to try to integrate them both into the offense.

Bush isn't a short-yardage back or a goaline back. McAllister will hold those roles. Also, Bush can be on the field at the same time as McAllister b/c Bush can line up in the slot.

For only this year, I still see McAllister with decent TD numbers, and something like 800-1000 yards on 200ish carries.

First, I don't get the impression that Bush is a doosh. He didn't hold out, he's not a media whore like TO, and he's helping the New Orleans community already.Second, New Orleans can cut or trade Deuce next year and not take a huge cap hit. There's more info on his contract situation in this thread.

I think the info in that thread is good, but the analysis is not.7 year deal. $7 million up-front, amoratized at $1 million per year. Meaning that after this year, $5 million remains unamoratized.

Then, $4 million option bonus and $1.5 million roster bonus in 2006. Option bonuses DO get spread out, so that's another $5.5 million over six years, so that's like $900k per year amoratization, and leaves $4.6 million unamoratized after this year. ( Relevant quote from the CBA: "Any amount specified to be paid for the exercise of an option by a Club to extend the term of a Player Contract shall be treated as signing bonus, prorated over the remaining term of the contract commencing in the League Year in which it is exercised or the last League Year in which the option may be exercised, whichever comes first.")

Cutting McAllister early next year is about a $9.6 million cap hit. Waiting until after 6/30 will change that math, but it will not cut it by 50%. It will simply allow that year's amoritization to count (which is about $2 million), and then the rest, $7.6 million, in the following year. Plus,. he gets a $1 million roster bonus after this season that I don't know the date for. If it's prior to 6/30, that's another $1 million to account for. If it's after, then it doesn't matter.

The above numbers are rather rough, b/c I don't ahve enough details to work with - most specifically, I don't have the language of the option bonus, so I don't know how long the original $7 million can be amoritized over - I actually think it's 5 years, not 7, but again, impossible to say without knowing more details.

Nonetheless, it will be around $9 million to cut him or trade him after this season, or about $2 million next year and $7 million the next. I don't see eitehr of those things as realistic possibliites.

 

[Jason Wood]

Travis Henry was never considered, nor should he have been, an elite talent; which Deuce proved when healthy he most certainly is. Henry's contract paled in comparison to Deuce's, as well.

Those two things may not matter in the grand scheme of things considering how talented (and paid) Bush is; but I still maintain that IF (a big IF) Deuce is healthy, they each get a heavy workload. If not, Bush will have a chance to live up to recent ADP which puts him in the late 1st, early 2nd round mix.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Difference is that Duece actually has the talent to prosper in another offense. He will be starting for some other team next year. I've said this before, but the situation actually reminds me more of when NO (just happens to be the same team) drafted Duece when Ricky was there. After...this season, Duece will move on. Ironic that Duece will be in the opposite situation that he was in before.

 

[saintfool]

Travis Henry was never considered, nor should he have been, an elite talent; which Deuce proved when healthy he most certainly is. Henry's contract paled in comparison to Deuce's, as well. Those two things may not matter in the grand scheme of things considering how talented (and paid) Bush is; but I still maintain that IF (a big IF) Deuce is healthy, they each get a heavy workload. If not, Bush will have a chance to live up to recent ADP which puts him in the late 1st, early 2nd round mix.

very good post on all accounts there...

 

[Todem]

Travis Henry was never considered, nor should he have been, an elite talent; which Deuce proved when healthy he most certainly is. Henry's contract paled in comparison to Deuce's, as well. Those two things may not matter in the grand scheme of things considering how talented (and paid) Bush is; but I still maintain that IF (a big IF) Deuce is healthy, they each get a heavy workload. If not, Bush will have a chance to live up to recent ADP which puts him in the late 1st, early 2nd round mix.

Great post.I agree that Deuce will get work, but they will spilt series (as long as it is effective) imo to ease Deuce back into playing on that knee. Also Deuce will clearly get the goalline work. In PPR Bush can be a nice RB2. I would not draft Bush this season earlier than the 4th so that means I will not get him. Deuce presents the value this season. as a nice RB3 bye week fill in/lineup depth type of back in 12 team leagues that start 2-3 backs.Bush is risk/reward in redrafts this year if Deuce stays healthy.