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DON'T BRING EXTINCT CREATURES BACK TO LIFE - IQ2 debate (1 Viewer)

Dedfin

Footballguy
I thought this was a fun debate, and something people here can disagree with that IS NOT on the standard Trump battle lines. Plus it's cool science fiction stuff. I put it here because it actually has some potential science policy discussion.

https://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/dont-bring-extinct-creatures-back-life

The audio link is above, the debaters seem all super smart, and one of which is a personal science hero of mine (George Church). Is anyone here interested in sharing an opinion?

We have the technology to bring back extinct species (at least some of them right now). Should we?

 

supermike80

Footballguy
I thought this was a fun debate, and something people here can disagree with that IS NOT on the standard Trump battle lines. Plus it's cool science fiction stuff. I put it here because it actually has some potential science policy discussion.

https://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/dont-bring-extinct-creatures-back-life

The audio link is above, the debaters seem all super smart, and one of which is a personal science hero of mine (George Church). Is anyone here interested in sharing an opinion?

We have the technology to bring back extinct species (at least some of them right now). Should we?
Nope..They're extinct for a reason.  Nature has spoken and those species that went extinct should stay there.   

 

Brony

Footballguy
I recently read that the pace of species extinction occurring now is faster than the pace during the dinosaur extinction era. So how about we work on stop killing off current creatures?

 

supermike80

Footballguy
I recently read that the pace of species extinction occurring now is faster than the pace during the dinosaur extinction era. So how about we work on stop killing off current creatures?
Never a word about anything else, even considering the OP said it was a fun debate.  No?  Can't do?   

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
Same opinion.
Really?  What if one day the US decided it wanted to eradicate a certain animal then 5 years later we found out that it has major negative effects on us as humans.  You'd still be against bringing it back if you had the ability to?

 

Osaurus

Footballguy
Really?  What if one day the US decided it wanted to eradicate a certain animal then 5 years later we found out that it has major negative effects on us as humans.  You'd still be against bringing it back if you had the ability to?
You ripped off this thought from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, didn’t you?

 

supermike80

Footballguy
Interesting.  Why do you feel that way?
Why do I feel what way?  That I wouldn't against bringing back a creature we decided to go destroy and then found out later it was a life saving creature and could, I don't know , cure cancer or something?  Why do I feel that creature should be brought back to life?  You mean THAT feeling?

 

supermike80

Footballguy
Really?  What if one day the US decided it wanted to eradicate a certain animal then 5 years later we found out that it has major negative effects on us as humans.  You'd still be against bringing it back if you had the ability to?
Ohhh...Mr smart guy.  What if in order to cure a human life we had to torture this animal in order to get it to release a fluid that could cure autism? huh huh huh?  What then huh?

JFC....   

 

tonydead

Footballguy
The question should be answered by the reason why.  So everyone can have a pet velociraptor, no.  So we can bring back plant species that eat up large amounts of CO2 that scientists tell us would have major positive effects on climate change, yes. We should rely on the science to tell us.

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
Why do I feel what way?  That I wouldn't against bringing back a creature we decided to go destroy and then found out later it was a life saving creature and could, I don't know , cure cancer or something?  Why do I feel that creature should be brought back to life?  You mean THAT feeling?
Yeah, I'm curious why you wouldn't want to bring back a species that was eliminated by humans.  I can understand the "Nature has spoken" opinion but once man decides to step in that kind of changes things.  At least that's how I feel.

 

supermike80

Footballguy
Yeah, I'm curious why you wouldn't want to bring back a species that was eliminated by humans.  I can understand the "Nature has spoken" opinion but once man decides to step in that kind of changes things.  At least that's how I feel.
And you and feel different. Is that OK?  I believe that humans are part of nature....I mean is that OK?

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
Ohhh...Mr smart guy.  What if in order to cure a human life we had to torture this animal in order to get it to release a fluid that could cure autism? huh huh huh?  What then huh?

JFC....   
Is there a reason why you're getting all defensive here?  I thought it was a fun topic to discuss here.  Sorry I tried to have a discussion.

 

tonydead

Footballguy
Yeah, I'm curious why you wouldn't want to bring back a species that was eliminated by humans.  I can understand the "Nature has spoken" opinion but once man decides to step in that kind of changes things.  At least that's how I feel.
I don't think the reason necessarily has anything to do with whether we should or shouldn't.  Unless there was a really good reason humans eliminated them in the first place

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
The question should be answered by the reason why.  So everyone can have a pet velociraptor, no.  So we can bring back plant species that eat up large amounts of CO2 that scientists tell us would have major positive effects on climate change, yes. We should rely on the science to tell us.
That's the kind of stuff I find really interesting.  Have to also think if there can be negative effects as well.

 

supermike80

Footballguy
Is there a reason why you're getting all defensive here?  I thought it was a fun topic to discuss here.  Sorry I tried to have a discussion.
I answered, then you completely and totally changed the question and that's massively annoying.  And instead of just stating the opinion, you decided to challenge mine.  No need.  State your opinion and leave it alone.  Why did you need to challenge mine, by making up something utterly ridiculous, when it didn't mesh with yours? Do you not see how horrible that is?  I've been dealing with this crap on the board all ####### day.  Why does it always seem to not be enough to just have an opinion---and instead the need is to change others???   I hate that about religion too.  Exact same thing

 
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Hawkeye21

Footballguy
I don't think the reason necessarily has anything to do with whether we should or shouldn't.  Unless there was a really good reason humans eliminated them in the first place
I was thinking of a scenario where the negatives ended up outweighing the benefits it had.  It kind of reminds me of how species have been introduced into the country to solve one issue only to create new issues.

 

sho nuff

Footballguy
That's the kind of stuff I find really interesting.  Have to also think if there can be negative effects as well.
Yeah there have been plenty of times we unleash something on an environment thinking it will help (or removing something)...only to have the negative outweigh the positive.

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
I answered, then you completely and totally changed the question and that's massively annoying.  And instead of just stating the opinion, you decided to challenge mine.  No need.  State your opinion and leave it alone.  Why did you need to challenge mine, by making up something utterly ridiculous, when it didn't mesh with yours? Do you not see how horrible that is?
I was just looking for a little bit more detail to why you had that opinion.  It's how I learn to understand people's opinions, I ask questions.  It's how most constructive discussions are made.  My intent was not to challenge you at all but to gain more perspective on why you share that opinion.  I never even said that you're opinion was wrong or that I disagreed with it.

Also, why was my scenario ridiculous?

 
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cosjobs

Footballguy
Really?  What if one day the US decided it wanted to eradicate a certain animal then 5 years later we found out that it has major negative effects on us as humans.  You'd still be against bringing it back if you had the ability to?
not if it was a mosquito

 

supermike80

Footballguy
There has been a project to revive the extinct American Passenger Pigeon from DNA and there hasn't been much of an outcry against that.

https://reviverestore.org/about-the-passenger-pigeon/
Swear to God this looked like a recipe:

HOW TO MAKE A PASSENGER PIGEON

Developing de-extinction science for the Passenger Pigeon has helped define the scientific path for the genetic rescue of all bird species. This path consists of five stages from research to restoration: in silico, in vitro, in vivo, ex situ, and in situ. These five stages can be grouped into three overarching phases given their interdependent technologies and overlapping resource requirements: genome research, revival, and restoration.

For the Passenger Pigeon, the five stages of de-extinction are:

Comparing the genomes of the Passenger Pigeon and Band-tailed Pigeon

Identifying regions of the living Band-tailed Pigeons genome to edit

Editing the germ-line of living Band-tailed Pigeons

Breeding a new generation of Passenger Pigeons in captivity

Reintroducing Passenger Pigeons to the wild through proper conditioning and monitoring.

 

supermike80

Footballguy
I was just looking for a little bit more detail to why you had that opinion.  It's how I learn to understand people's opinions, I ask questions.  It's how most constructive discussions are made.  My intent was not to challenge you at all but to gain more perspective on why you share that opinion.  I never even said that you're opinion was wrong or that I disagreed with it.
No you didn't.    You wanted to ask my opinion so you could challenge it...you did it from square one, immediately out of the gate..so don't for a minute try to convince me you were interested in what I had to say.  You wanted to jump on me for having it.  If you didn't, you wouldn't have come out with guns blazing from the very first post.

Man..this bored has really frosted me today.

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
Yeah there have been plenty of times we unleash something on an environment thinking it will help (or removing something)...only to have the negative outweigh the positive.
Wouldn't that be kind of similar to eradicating a species to solve an issue only to create a bigger issue? 

 

supermike80

Footballguy
I don't really like messing with nature.  I like to let things go how they go.  Yes, even if that means humans(who are a part of nature) are directly responsible for the demise of a species.   I'd rather leave nature alone--at least today.  Maybe someday when we are more educated on the pros and cons of manipulating nature could we take on these kinds of things.

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
No you didn't.    You wanted to ask my opinion so you could challenge it...you did it from square one, immediately out of the gate..so don't for a minute try to convince me you were interested in what I had to say.  You wanted to jump on me for having it.  If you didn't, you wouldn't have come out with guns blazing from the very first post.

Man..this bored has really frosted me today.
You would be incorrect sir.  Sorry I made you upset.  I was generally interested to find out why you had that opinion.  You did not go into much detail why you had that opinion so I asked more questions.  I don't even disagree with you.

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
It depends on the creature - and even moreso when it became extinct.

I'm not sure where I'd set the line - but something that hasn't been in the ecosystem for thousands of years I am definitely against bringing back, and something that went extinct, say, last year I'm all about bringing back.  Each case would probably have to be extensively studied first.

 

Hawkeye21

Footballguy
I don't really like messing with nature.  I like to let things go how they go.  Yes, even if that means humans(who are a part of nature) are directly responsible for the demise of a species.   I'd rather leave nature alone--at least today.  Maybe someday when we are more educated on the pros and cons of manipulating nature could we take on these kinds of things.
I agree with this as well but the whole human aspect got me rethinking it a bit.  Thinking about bringing back an extinct species seems like something that belongs in a movie.

 

Dedfin

Footballguy
For those that havent listened/watched, one of the species brought up is the dodo bird. Any harm in bringing back the dodo to zoos?

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
For those that havent listened/watched, one of the species brought up is the dodo bird. Any harm in bringing back the dodo to zoos?
Almost 350 years ago is a tough question for me.  Within 100 years, I probably wouldn't protest, over 1000 I would definitely be against it.

There's a species of tree from Mauritius that was thought to be going extinct recently that would probably come back if dodos were reintroduced.  Which was going to, in turn, continue to change that ecosystem.  Turns out they were wrong about some things, but at first blush, I'm pro-dodo, and actually pro- reintroducing them into the wild.

 
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squistion

Footballguy
For those that havent listened/watched, one of the species brought up is the dodo bird. Any harm in bringing back the dodo to zoos?
I don't see why not. The dodo went extinct not because of being stupid as per popular folklore. The bird evolved into a wingless avian species because on the island of Mauritius it had no natural predators and didn't need to fly. Predators (rats in particular) were introduced on the island by man and the birds were sitting ducks (so to speak) and were wiped out in little over a hundred years.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
The question should be answered by the reason why.  So everyone can have a pet velociraptor, no.  So we can bring back plant species that eat up large amounts of CO2 that scientists tell us would have major positive effects on climate change, yes. We should rely on the science to tell us.
That... is an interesting thought.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
It’s stunning how much ecological damages humans - including our early forbears - have exacted. I’d be open to anything we’ve knocked out by our ways.

 

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