Drug Goes From $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight (1 Viewer)

[McGarnicle]

I didn't think anyone's face could be more punchable when this story originally broke. He has really outdone himself

Makes Trump look like Mr. Rogers. Would love to whack him across the head with a canoe paddle.

 

[Quez]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

 

[ShamrockPride]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Agreed, but guy does himself no favors by trying way too hard (and succeeding) at coming off as a cackling hyena looking doosh. He makes himself the face of the industry.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

1-2-3-4-F.I.F.

FIFTH

 

[McGarnicle]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

So if a CEO has an opportunity to potentially kill people, we can't blame him because it's legal?Also this POS was arrested separately for fraud. He's a bad guy no matter how you slice it.

 

[James Daulton]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Exactly what role do hospitals play except to try to get/keep patients healthy? Pretty sure I remember your hate of the healthcare system from another thread. I hope these feelings don't keep you or someone you love from using it if needed in the future.

Meanwhile people thank god everyday for the doctors, nurses, and hospitals that saved their families lives.

 

[Henry Ford]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Exactly what role do hospitals play except to try to get/keep patients healthy? Pretty sure I remember your hate of the healthcare system from another thread. I hope these feelings don't keep you or someone you love from using it if needed in the future.

Meanwhile people thank god everyday for the doctors, nurses, and hospitals that saved their families lives.

"Doctors and nurses" are a very different category from "hospital administrators." I'd imagine that's the line he's drawing here.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

I think you're half right. And putting his douchiness aside, this guy has no business being a CEO of a pharma company.

 

[cstu]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

I think you're half right. And putting his douchiness aside, this guy has no business being a CEO of a pharma company.

Right, they need to keep their ripping off of the American people on the down low.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I didn't think anyone's face could be more punchable when this story originally broke. He has really outdone himself

Makes Trump look like Mr. Rogers. Would love to whack him across the head with a canoe paddle.

Mr Rogers' face was pretty punchable

 

[James Daulton]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Exactly what role do hospitals play except to try to get/keep patients healthy? Pretty sure I remember your hate of the healthcare system from another thread. I hope these feelings don't keep you or someone you love from using it if needed in the future.

Meanwhile people thank god everyday for the doctors, nurses, and hospitals that saved their families lives.

"Doctors and nurses" are a very different category from "hospital administrators." I'd imagine that's the line he's drawing here.

What bad do hospital adminstrators do? Not kick people out of the ED who don't have insurance? Get payment well after the fact? While hospitals do strive to turn a small profit, to lump them in with insurers and drug companies is not even close to reality. That'd be like saying they're almost as bad as lawyers! Can you even imagine?

 

[Quez]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

 

[Good Posting Judge]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

I think you're half right. And putting his douchiness aside, this guy has no business being a CEO of a pharma company.

Right, they need to keep their ripping off of the American people on the down low.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

 

[RealReactions]

When has being an a$$hole become illegal? He hasn't don't anything wrong. Truthfully I kind of respect this guy. He completely owns up to what he really is and its rare for anybody in this day to do that so I kind of respect it. Maybe I'm young but I would be lying to say that I wouldn't do what he did in raising the medicines price if I was in the same situation.

 

[Sammy3469]

He hasn't done anything wrong....oh besides defrauding (i.e. Stealing money) from investors.

 

[RealReactions]

He hasn't done anything wrong....oh besides defrauding (i.e. Stealing money) from investors.

I was just talking about the medicine itself. I know he has done illegal things but raising the price wasn't illegal or anything and that is when the backlash began.

 

[bigbottom]

When has being an ####### become illegal? He hasn't don't anything wrong. Truthfully I kind of respect this guy. He completely owns up to what he really is and its rare for anybody in this day to do that so I kind of respect it. Maybe I'm young but I would be lying to say that I wouldn't do what he did in raising the medicines price if I was in the same situation.

Well, he may indeed have done something wrong. He's been indicted for securities fraud.

 

[massraider]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

Yes, he has.

 

[bigbottom]

This guy seems really shady. This allegation from 2011 for example:

In 2011, Shkreli filed requests with the FDA to reject a new cancer diagnostic device from Navidea Biopharmaceuticals and an inhalable insulin therapy from MannKind Corporation while publicly short-selling both companies' stocks, the values of which dropped after Shkreli's interventions. The companies had difficulty launching the products as a result, although the FDA ultimately approved both.

 

[Quez]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

This is a capitalistic society. His role is to make shareholders money not the world a better place. He would never be in the role he is in if he didn't try and maximize profits.

Prison? Seriously?

 

[msommer]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

This is a capitalistic society. His role is to make shareholders money not the world a better place. He would never be in the role he is in if he didn't try and maximize profits.

Prison? Seriously?

For securities fraud, absolutely

 

[The Commish]

This whole fiasco is why healthcare shouldn't be a "business" in the first place.....IMO.

 

[Quez]

Ok, so I am defending the jerk off for raising the price on the drug. I'm not 100% sure about the security fraud. If he was running a ponzi scheme & defrauding investors then, yeah that's a crime.

However, I think this guy probably flies under the radar if the drug price wasn't raised. He got too flashy, played intk the evil schtick. & people really think he's a villan. Not to mention, he is all over social media. He made himself a huge target.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

This is a capitalistic society. His role is to make shareholders money not the world a better place. He would never be in the role he is in if he didn't try and maximize profits.

Prison? Seriously?

This is a very limited view of capitalism. Reputation with the public is an important facet of capitalism; it's the basis for the libertarian notion that for-profit entities can self-regulate to some degree because doing evil harms their reputation and ultimately their bottom line.

If every time someone does something horrible we just throw up our hands and say "well that's capitalism for ya!" instead of publicly condemning them, we've actually nullified an important element of what makes capitalism work.

 

[Quez]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

This is a capitalistic society. His role is to make shareholders money not the world a better place. He would never be in the role he is in if he didn't try and maximize profits.Prison? Seriously?

This is a very limited view of capitalism. Reputation with the public is an important facet of capitalism; it's the basis for the libertarian notion that for-profit entities can self-regulate to some degree because doing evil harms their reputation and ultimately their bottom line.

If every time someone does something horrible we just throw up our hands and say "well that's capitalism for ya!" instead of publicly condemning them, we've actually nullified an important element of what makes capitalism work.

The problem is he gave a face to condemn. Where are all the faces of the people that work at Purdue Pharmaceutical that keep increasing the number of oxycontins. Where are the faces of the hospital administrators that charge different prices to people with Medicare/insurance/no insurance. And billing $1.60 for Tylenol?

Imo, he is drawing attention to the larger overall problem of how F'd up the entire healthcare system is from top to bottom. I'm just a regular FBG, so i dont know the exact issue, or how to solve it. But it's a combination of the insurance companies, hospitals, and big pharma.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

This is a capitalistic society. His role is to make shareholders money not the world a better place. He would never be in the role he is in if he didn't try and maximize profits.Prison? Seriously?

This is a very limited view of capitalism. Reputation with the public is an important facet of capitalism; it's the basis for the libertarian notion that for-profit entities can self-regulate to some degree because doing evil harms their reputation and ultimately their bottom line.

If every time someone does something horrible we just throw up our hands and say "well that's capitalism for ya!" instead of publicly condemning them, we've actually nullified an important element of what makes capitalism work.

The problem is he gave a face to condemn. Where are all the faces of the people that work at Purdue Pharmaceutical that keep increasing the number of oxycontins. Where are the faces of the hospital administrators that charge different prices to people with Medicare/insurance/no insurance. And billing $1.60 for Tylenol?

Imo, he is drawing attention to the larger overall problem of how F'd up the entire healthcare system is from top to bottom. I'm just a regular FBG, so i dont know the exact issue, or how to solve it. But it's a combination of the insurance companies, hospitals, and big pharma.

Sure, but I think that's part of it. If we condemn this dooshbag and make an example of him hopefully that gives other dooshbags pause before doing something that keeps meds out of the hands of people that need them. Now we move on to the next dooshbag, and the one after that, and the one after that. I don't think it will help all that much, but at least it's a very small step in the right direction, which is why I'd say there's no reason to defend the guy. All part of the process.

 

[flapgreen]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Wrong!

 

[Brony]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Exactly what role do hospitals play except to try to get/keep patients healthy? Pretty sure I remember your hate of the healthcare system from another thread. I hope these feelings don't keep you or someone you love from using it if needed in the future.

Meanwhile people thank god everyday for the doctors, nurses, and hospitals that saved their families lives.

"Doctors and nurses" are a very different category from "hospital administrators." I'd imagine that's the line he's drawing here.

What bad do hospital adminstrators do? Not kick people out of the ED who don't have insurance? Get payment well after the fact? While hospitals do strive to turn a small profit, to lump them in with insurers and drug companies is not even close to reality. That'd be like saying they're almost as bad as lawyers! Can you even imagine?

I've worked across the healthcare industry for many years and the only common thread is that everyone is looking to turn a profit: doctors, hospital admins, insurers, pharmacies, service providers and drug cos. Don't kid yourself that your doctor or hospital isn't chasing a buck.

 

[matttyl]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Depends on what you feel the "problem" is.

United health is the largest health insurance company in the US (in terms of membership). The link is to their balance sheet for the past 5 years. You can see net income ranges from $4.6-5.6B annually. Yes, those are some large numbers - I get that.

Wellpoint (likely better known as Anthem) is the largest managed care company in the US. Same link. $148-731M annually. That's an M, not a B.

Aetna is the third largest health care provider in the US. Same link. $1.7-2B annually.

Pfizer is the largest RX company in the US I believe. The link is the same info as above. You can see their net income ranges from $8.3-22B annually. We're talking 2-4x as much per year as the largest health insurance company. 5-11x as much as Aetna.

Novartis is the next largest I believe. Same link for them. You can see their net income ranges from $9.1-17.8B annually. Again, 2-3x as much per year.

Merck is another large Rx company, considered top 3 world wide. Same link. Over the last 4 years their income ranges from $4.4-11.9B annually.

Yes, they are all there to make money - I get that. But the Rx companies are on a completely different tier of how much they are making - sometimes over 10x as much. I don't want to come across as defending the insurance companies, but I'm sure that is how this will be taken. I just hope people realize the reality of these numbers. If you feel "the problem" is "the game" as you put it - ok, that's a different discussion, but with "the game" as it is - some companies are in the big leagues while others are still in AAA.

Also, for what it's worth - the US accounts for roughly 5% of the world's population, but 75% of it's Rx consumption. That's very, very scary.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

This is a capitalistic society. His role is to make shareholders money not the world a better place. He would never be in the role he is in if he didn't try and maximize profits.Prison? Seriously?

This is a very limited view of capitalism. Reputation with the public is an important facet of capitalism; it's the basis for the libertarian notion that for-profit entities can self-regulate to some degree because doing evil harms their reputation and ultimately their bottom line.

If every time someone does something horrible we just throw up our hands and say "well that's capitalism for ya!" instead of publicly condemning them, we've actually nullified an important element of what makes capitalism work.

The problem is he gave a face to condemn. Where are all the faces of the people that work at Purdue Pharmaceutical that keep increasing the number of oxycontins. Where are the faces of the hospital administrators that charge different prices to people with Medicare/insurance/no insurance. And billing $1.60 for Tylenol?Imo, he is drawing attention to the larger overall problem of how F'd up the entire healthcare system is from top to bottom. I'm just a regular FBG, so i dont know the exact issue, or how to solve it. But it's a combination of the insurance companies, hospitals, and big pharma.

Sure, but I think that's part of it. If we condemn this dooshbag and make an example of him hopefully that gives other dooshbags pause before doing something that keeps meds out of the hands of people that need them. Now we move on to the next dooshbag, and the one after that, and the one after that. I don't think it will help all that much, but at least it's a very small step in the right direction, which is why I'd say there's no reason to defend the guy. All part of the process.

Aside from the guy coming across as a cocky, heartless jerk, I believe his biggest problem was setting a price that would essentially make the medicine unattainable for a large base of its customers. This stuff is how the industry works. Companies hire external firms to see what the can charge for medicines, will 1. Making the highest "achievable" profit, without alienating their customer bases, limiting accesses to the medicine, and not cause a PR nightmare.I always love the hospitalTylenol example. We've probably taken a 25-50 cent products and raised the price to $150. Sure, that a 300-600% increase, but most folks can handle $1.50.

Folks on HIV medicine probably can't handle 700% increase in a product that goes from $13.50 to over $100!- pill. Seems like some really shotty analysis, or if he did the work, then you had someone that dust understand this aspect of the market.

 

[cstu]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Depends on what you feel the "problem" is. United health is the largest health insurance company in the US (in terms of membership). The link is to their balance sheet for the past 5 years. You can see net income ranges from $4.6-5.6B annually. Yes, those are some large numbers - I get that.

Wellpoint (likely better known as Anthem) is the largest managed care company in the US. Same link. $148-731M annually. That's an M, not a B.

Aetna is the third largest health care provider in the US. Same link. $1.7-2B annually.

Pfizer is the largest RX company in the US I believe. The link is the same info as above. You can see their net income ranges from $8.3-22B annually. We're talking 2-4x as much per year as the largest health insurance company. 5-11x as much as Aetna.

Novartis is the next largest I believe. Same link for them. You can see their net income ranges from $9.1-17.8B annually. Again, 2-3x as much per year.

Merck is another large Rx company, considered top 3 world wide. Same link. Over the last 4 years their income ranges from $4.4-11.9B annually.

Yes, they are all there to make money - I get that. But the Rx companies are on a completely different tier of how much they are making - sometimes over 10x as much. I don't want to come across as defending the insurance companies, but I'm sure that is how this will be taken. I just hope people realize the reality of these numbers. If you feel "the problem" is "the game" as you put it - ok, that's a different discussion, but with "the game" as it is - some companies are in the big leagues while others are still in AAA.

Also, for what it's worth - the US accounts for roughly 5% of the world's population, but 75% of it's Rx consumption. That's very, very scary.

Don't see why it needs to be one vs. the other - get rid of insurance companies and force pharmaceutical companies to lower their prices.

 

[matttyl]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Depends on what you feel the "problem" is. United health is the largest health insurance company in the US (in terms of membership). The link is to their balance sheet for the past 5 years. You can see net income ranges from $4.6-5.6B annually. Yes, those are some large numbers - I get that.

Wellpoint (likely better known as Anthem) is the largest managed care company in the US. Same link. $148-731M annually. That's an M, not a B.

Aetna is the third largest health care provider in the US. Same link. $1.7-2B annually.

Pfizer is the largest RX company in the US I believe. The link is the same info as above. You can see their net income ranges from $8.3-22B annually. We're talking 2-4x as much per year as the largest health insurance company. 5-11x as much as Aetna.

Novartis is the next largest I believe. Same link for them. You can see their net income ranges from $9.1-17.8B annually. Again, 2-3x as much per year.

Merck is another large Rx company, considered top 3 world wide. Same link. Over the last 4 years their income ranges from $4.4-11.9B annually.

Yes, they are all there to make money - I get that. But the Rx companies are on a completely different tier of how much they are making - sometimes over 10x as much. I don't want to come across as defending the insurance companies, but I'm sure that is how this will be taken. I just hope people realize the reality of these numbers. If you feel "the problem" is "the game" as you put it - ok, that's a different discussion, but with "the game" as it is - some companies are in the big leagues while others are still in AAA.

Also, for what it's worth - the US accounts for roughly 5% of the world's population, but 75% of it's Rx consumption. That's very, very scary.

Don't see why it needs to be one vs. the other - get rid of insurance companies and force pharmaceutical companies to lower their prices.

The post I was replying to made it one vs the other, I was just hoping to lend some perspective to it.

As for your two ideas, I can at least understand the arguments of both (though don't agree with the first and feel that competition and such could be set up to deal with the later). If, though, you were able to get rid of the profits of each - doing so for the later would help far more than the former (again, if we're considering their profits to be "the problem").

 

[The Commish]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Depends on what you feel the "problem" is. United health is the largest health insurance company in the US (in terms of membership). The link is to their balance sheet for the past 5 years. You can see net income ranges from $4.6-5.6B annually. Yes, those are some large numbers - I get that.

Wellpoint (likely better known as Anthem) is the largest managed care company in the US. Same link. $148-731M annually. That's an M, not a B.

Aetna is the third largest health care provider in the US. Same link. $1.7-2B annually.

Pfizer is the largest RX company in the US I believe. The link is the same info as above. You can see their net income ranges from $8.3-22B annually. We're talking 2-4x as much per year as the largest health insurance company. 5-11x as much as Aetna.

Novartis is the next largest I believe. Same link for them. You can see their net income ranges from $9.1-17.8B annually. Again, 2-3x as much per year.

Merck is another large Rx company, considered top 3 world wide. Same link. Over the last 4 years their income ranges from $4.4-11.9B annually.

Yes, they are all there to make money - I get that. But the Rx companies are on a completely different tier of how much they are making - sometimes over 10x as much. I don't want to come across as defending the insurance companies, but I'm sure that is how this will be taken. I just hope people realize the reality of these numbers. If you feel "the problem" is "the game" as you put it - ok, that's a different discussion, but with "the game" as it is - some companies are in the big leagues while others are still in AAA.

Also, for what it's worth - the US accounts for roughly 5% of the world's population, but 75% of it's Rx consumption. That's very, very scary.

Don't see why it needs to be one vs. the other - get rid of insurance companies and force pharmaceutical companies to lower their prices.

Who's going to force pharm companies to lower their prices?? The government?

 

[Quez]

Watch this vice interview with him. He explains his arguments. He is a quirky, nerdy, young immature dude, but he hasn't done anything nearly worthy of the hate he is getting.

https://youtu.be/2PCb9mnrU1g

I watched it. He is an example of what is wrong with raw capitalism. Just because its technically legal doesn't mean your own dad wouldn't kick your ###. This guy needs a serious beatdown.

Let him do to prison and maintain that attitude. He doesn't care about anyone he harmed.

This is a capitalistic society. His role is to make shareholders money not the world a better place. He would never be in the role he is in if he didn't try and maximize profits.Prison? Seriously?

This is a very limited view of capitalism. Reputation with the public is an important facet of capitalism; it's the basis for the libertarian notion that for-profit entities can self-regulate to some degree because doing evil harms their reputation and ultimately their bottom line.

If every time someone does something horrible we just throw up our hands and say "well that's capitalism for ya!" instead of publicly condemning them, we've actually nullified an important element of what makes capitalism work.

The problem is he gave a face to condemn. Where are all the faces of the people that work at Purdue Pharmaceutical that keep increasing the number of oxycontins. Where are the faces of the hospital administrators that charge different prices to people with Medicare/insurance/no insurance. And billing $1.60 for Tylenol?Imo, he is drawing attention to the larger overall problem of how F'd up the entire healthcare system is from top to bottom. I'm just a regular FBG, so i dont know the exact issue, or how to solve it. But it's a combination of the insurance companies, hospitals, and big pharma.

Sure, but I think that's part of it. If we condemn this dooshbag and make an example of him hopefully that gives other dooshbags pause before doing something that keeps meds out of the hands of people that need them. Now we move on to the next dooshbag, and the one after that, and the one after that. I don't think it will help all that much, but at least it's a very small step in the right direction, which is why I'd say there's no reason to defend the guy. All part of the process.

I believe his biggest problem was setting a price that would essentially make the medicine unattainable for a large base of its customers. I always love the hospitalTylenol example. We've probably taken a 25-50 cent products and raised the price to $150. Sure, that a 300-600% increase,

Folks on HIV medicine probably can't handle 700% increase in a product that goes from $13.50 to over $100!- pill. Seems like some really shotty analysis, or if he did the work, then you had someone that dust understand this aspect of the market.

He did say in the vice interview like 60% of people got the drug for free. He claims that he basically raised the price for Microsoft, Walmart, exon mobile, etc. The companies that self insure.

 

[TobiasFunke]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Depends on what you feel the "problem" is. United health is the largest health insurance company in the US (in terms of membership). The link is to their balance sheet for the past 5 years. You can see net income ranges from $4.6-5.6B annually. Yes, those are some large numbers - I get that.

Wellpoint (likely better known as Anthem) is the largest managed care company in the US. Same link. $148-731M annually. That's an M, not a B.

Aetna is the third largest health care provider in the US. Same link. $1.7-2B annually.

Pfizer is the largest RX company in the US I believe. The link is the same info as above. You can see their net income ranges from $8.3-22B annually. We're talking 2-4x as much per year as the largest health insurance company. 5-11x as much as Aetna.

Novartis is the next largest I believe. Same link for them. You can see their net income ranges from $9.1-17.8B annually. Again, 2-3x as much per year.

Merck is another large Rx company, considered top 3 world wide. Same link. Over the last 4 years their income ranges from $4.4-11.9B annually.

Yes, they are all there to make money - I get that. But the Rx companies are on a completely different tier of how much they are making - sometimes over 10x as much. I don't want to come across as defending the insurance companies, but I'm sure that is how this will be taken. I just hope people realize the reality of these numbers. If you feel "the problem" is "the game" as you put it - ok, that's a different discussion, but with "the game" as it is - some companies are in the big leagues while others are still in AAA.

Also, for what it's worth - the US accounts for roughly 5% of the world's population, but 75% of it's Rx consumption. That's very, very scary.

Don't see why it needs to be one vs. the other - get rid of insurance companies and force pharmaceutical companies to lower their prices.

Who's going to force pharm companies to lower their prices?? The government?

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

 

[Quez]

Another interesting note from the vice interview,

-Drugs are 20% of healthcare cost

-Dr's & hospitals are 80%

This all comes back to the even more screwed up secondary education system. Dr's cost too much, because their schooling cost like half a million dollars.

 

[matttyl]

Another interesting note from the vice interview,

-Drugs are 20% of healthcare cost

-Dr's & hospitals are 80%

This all comes back to the even more screwed up secondary education system. Dr's cost too much, because their schooling cost like half a million dollars.

Those rough numbers are true. Which makes the above income numbers I posted even more scary. Rx companies are making multiple billions of income each from their small piece of the overall pie.

And Dr.'s don't just cut their rates back when they pay off their school loans, either. Sure, many are there to help people - but they are making very good coin doing it.

 

[The Commish]

This guy isn't the problem. It's a witch hunt / circus. The insurance companies & hospitals are a bigger problem than the pharmacy guys. I have listened to him a few times, and he is just doing what his shareholders want. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Depends on what you feel the "problem" is. United health is the largest health insurance company in the US (in terms of membership). The link is to their balance sheet for the past 5 years. You can see net income ranges from $4.6-5.6B annually. Yes, those are some large numbers - I get that.

Wellpoint (likely better known as Anthem) is the largest managed care company in the US. Same link. $148-731M annually. That's an M, not a B.

Aetna is the third largest health care provider in the US. Same link. $1.7-2B annually.

Pfizer is the largest RX company in the US I believe. The link is the same info as above. You can see their net income ranges from $8.3-22B annually. We're talking 2-4x as much per year as the largest health insurance company. 5-11x as much as Aetna.

Novartis is the next largest I believe. Same link for them. You can see their net income ranges from $9.1-17.8B annually. Again, 2-3x as much per year.

Merck is another large Rx company, considered top 3 world wide. Same link. Over the last 4 years their income ranges from $4.4-11.9B annually.

Yes, they are all there to make money - I get that. But the Rx companies are on a completely different tier of how much they are making - sometimes over 10x as much. I don't want to come across as defending the insurance companies, but I'm sure that is how this will be taken. I just hope people realize the reality of these numbers. If you feel "the problem" is "the game" as you put it - ok, that's a different discussion, but with "the game" as it is - some companies are in the big leagues while others are still in AAA.

Also, for what it's worth - the US accounts for roughly 5% of the world's population, but 75% of it's Rx consumption. That's very, very scary.

Don't see why it needs to be one vs. the other - get rid of insurance companies and force pharmaceutical companies to lower their prices.

Who's going to force pharm companies to lower their prices?? The government?

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

agreed...that's certainly part of it. Are we to believe the gov't is going to make them lower their prices?

 

[ShamrockPride]

For anyone who is interested, his half hour interview with The Breakfast Club, a popular NYC hip hop based radio show. They talk about the Wu-Tang album, his upbringing, as well as the price gouging decision.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JTNOWSKMS10

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Aside from right/wrong, the guy is just stupid. Provoking Congress is a bad idea -- Congresspeople are vain, have long memories, and have enough power to make things complicated for you.

If you get called to testify and don't plan to say anything you stay calm and polite and repeatedly invoke the 5th in the most boring way possible.

 

[matttyl]

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

Are you saying that Rx companies shouldn't have patent protection? I think their protection now last 20 years. I have a list of drugs getting a generic equivalent this year on my desk (as you know what it is I do). The big ones (the ones I recognize right off) are Crestor, Benicar, Vytorin, Strattera, and yes....Viagra - as well as a few other caner and HIV drugs.

 

[James Daulton]

Another interesting note from the vice interview,

-Drugs are 20% of healthcare cost

-Dr's & hospitals are 80%

This all comes back to the even more screwed up secondary education system. Dr's cost too much, because their schooling cost like half a million dollars.

Ugh. You think doctors cost too much? It's ok for lawyers, investment bankers, etc to make large cash, but the people who are responsible for healing us shouldn't? You seem to have some odd priorities, I'd much prefer our best and brightest become doctors and not lawyers.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

Are you saying that Rx companies shouldn't have patent protection? I think their protection now last 20 years. I have a list of drugs getting a generic equivalent this year on my desk (as you know what it is I do). The big ones (the ones I recognize right off) are Crestor, Benicar, Vytorin, Strattera, and yes....Viagra - as well as a few other caner and HIV drugs.

Of course they should. But Commish asked who could force Rx companies to limit their prices and seemed incredulous at the idea that the government could/should do it, which seems a little weird to me since the only reason they are able to charge high prices is the government protection afforded to them.

Government and health care are inextricably linked. This just isn't an industry that can operate in a lightly regulated free market type situation.

 

[matttyl]

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

Are you saying that Rx companies shouldn't have patent protection? I think their protection now last 20 years. I have a list of drugs getting a generic equivalent this year on my desk (as you know what it is I do). The big ones (the ones I recognize right off) are Crestor, Benicar, Vytorin, Strattera, and yes....Viagra - as well as a few other caner and HIV drugs.

Of course they should. But Commish asked who could force Rx companies to limit their prices and seemed incredulous at the idea that the government could/should do it, which seems a little weird to me since the only reason they are able to charge high prices is the government protection afforded to them.

Government and health care are inextricably linked. This just isn't an industry that can operate in a lightly regulated free market type situation.

But isn't it also the government that limits that protection to "only" 20 years? I'm not very keen on the subject of patent law, but aren't most of them indefinite?

Anyway, wouldn't it also be correct to say that the only reason generic Rx exist in the US (with their typically much lower prices) is also because of government?

 

[The Commish]

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

Are you saying that Rx companies shouldn't have patent protection? I think their protection now last 20 years. I have a list of drugs getting a generic equivalent this year on my desk (as you know what it is I do). The big ones (the ones I recognize right off) are Crestor, Benicar, Vytorin, Strattera, and yes....Viagra - as well as a few other caner and HIV drugs.

He can speak for himself, but I took it to mean he's just pointing out one of the realities. Personally? I think 20 years is way too long in this industry to hold a patent like that. But, I'm not a big fan of health care being a "business" in the first place, so I am biased.

 

[cstu]

Another interesting note from the vice interview,

-Drugs are 20% of healthcare cost

-Dr's & hospitals are 80%

This all comes back to the even more screwed up secondary education system. Dr's cost too much, because their schooling cost like half a million dollars.

Ugh. You think doctors cost too much? It's ok for lawyers, investment bankers, etc to make large cash, but the people who are responsible for healing us shouldn't? You seem to have some odd priorities, I'd much prefer our best and brightest become doctors and not lawyers.

Doctors' salaries are not the problem.

 

[The Commish]

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

Are you saying that Rx companies shouldn't have patent protection? I think their protection now last 20 years. I have a list of drugs getting a generic equivalent this year on my desk (as you know what it is I do). The big ones (the ones I recognize right off) are Crestor, Benicar, Vytorin, Strattera, and yes....Viagra - as well as a few other caner and HIV drugs.

Of course they should. But Commish asked who could force Rx companies to limit their prices and seemed incredulous at the idea that the government could/should do it, which seems a little weird to me since the only reason they are able to charge high prices is the government protection afforded to them.

Government and health care are inextricably linked. This just isn't an industry that can operate in a lightly regulated free market type situation.

You misunderstood my comment then. I think the government should absolutely hold their feet to the fire, but they go out of their way not to do it. They've successfully put insurance companies between us and big pharm so they wouldn't have to deal with it and look like the bad guys. I have zero reason to believe that the government is going to willingly bite the hand that feeds them

I can hope, but I'd believe it when I saw it. This, actually, is one of the reasons I'd like to see what happens in a universal healthcare solution....to see what the government would do.

 

[matttyl]

The government is the one that enables their high prices in the first place by giving them patent protection.

Are you saying that Rx companies shouldn't have patent protection? I think their protection now last 20 years. I have a list of drugs getting a generic equivalent this year on my desk (as you know what it is I do). The big ones (the ones I recognize right off) are Crestor, Benicar, Vytorin, Strattera, and yes....Viagra - as well as a few other caner and HIV drugs.

He can speak for himself, but I took it to mean he's just pointing out one of the realities. Personally? I think 20 years is way too long in this industry to hold a patent like that. But, I'm not a big fan of health care being a "business" in the first place, so I am biased.

So lets say we shorten it to 10 years. Rx companies aren't stupid, they will just jack up their prices even more for those 10 years - making these potentially lifesaving drugs even more out of reach for many people. That's also just "one of the realities".

Another reality is that the government (through the FDA) gets to decide what drugs even make it to the market in the first place.

 

[cstu]

agreed...that's certainly part of it. Are we to believe the gov't is going to make them lower their prices?

Other governments can do, why can't ours?