Edwin Jackson to the Tigers for Matt Joyce? (1 Viewer)

[Capella]

Rosenthal...

9:32 p.m. — Source: Tigers to aqcuire Edwin Jackson

The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. -- Ed Price

Love the internet. Insta-analysis:

Matt Joyce's name has come up a lot recently in Putz discussions. He's a 24 year old corner outfielder equipped with, at the very least, league-average defense and league-average offense. The former, though, may in actuality be quite a bit better than that, and he has enough upside to improve upon his standing in the latter as well. He's also under cheap team control for another five or six years.

In exchange for this nifty little player, the Tigers are getting a guy who sucks a lot. In 2007, Jackson's tRA ranked 122nd out of 129 qualified starting pitchers. In 2008, it ranked 110th out of 130. Everybody always talks about his awesome stuff, but all that awesome stuff has given him is a Major League career and wildly awful results, and while he may be able to put it together down the road, it's more likely that he just continues to be terrible until people stop giving him work.

A contract extension for Dontrelle Willis and a trade for Edwin Jackson. Congratulations, Detroit. You're ######ed.

 

[Capella]

sptimes..

Rays close to getting OF Matt Joyce for Edwin JacksonThe Rays may have found the outfield help they were looking for as they are about to acquire OF Matt Joyce from Detroit for pitcher Edwin Jackson. No confirmation yet from either team, but final details are being worked out.Joyce, 24, is an Armwood High grad who hit .252 with 12 homers and 33 RBIs in 92 games for the Tigers. The Florida Southern product made an impressive debut, hitting 10 homers in his first 36 big-league games (a feat matched by only three other players in the last 10 years). He is a left-handed hitter with a sweet swing. The Tigers sent him to the Mexican League to improve hitting off-speed pitches, and he has a .291 average, 8 homers and 25 RBIs in 30 games for Aguilas.The Rays save around $2-million in dealing Jackson, who was due for a big raise in his first year of arbitration eligibility after going 14-11, 4.42 during the season.Trading Jackson would appear to open a spot in the rotation for rookie sensation David Price, though Jason Hammel, Jeff Niemann and Mitch Talbot are other possibilities.At the least, Joyce gives the Rays outfield depth, as they seem likely to non-tender Jonny Gomes by Friday's midnight deadline.

rotonerd:

A source told FOXSports.com that the Rays are set to trade Edwin Jackson to the Tigers for Matt Joyce.Looks like a win for the Rays. Joyce is the player the Rays would really like Gabe Gross to be. Now Gross is completely expendable and could end up being non-tendered. The Rays still should go get themselves a legitimate DH, however. We imagine the Tigers are looking at Jackson as a starter, though there's always been plenty of speculation about how he might fare better as a closer. Dec. 10 - 9:53 pm et

 

[Bogart]

Them Rays are smart baseball people. Really like the trade for them.

 

[Capella]

Dr Detroit come in, Dr Detroit do you read me, over.

 

[skillz]

Joyce and Larish kept coming up as possible trade candidates all off season. I was hoping they would trade Larish before Joyce. Obviously that didn't happen. I am not happy with this deal although I have said that before and Dombrowski has proven me wrong. I think Joyce is going to be a solid power hitter in the majors.

 

[blackjack23]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

 

[skillz]

Dr Detroit come in, Dr Detroit do you read me, over.

He comments on the potential trade in the Tigers thread. Seems pretty optimistic about the deal from what I can tell.

 

[Shakespeare]

Lord what fools these Tigers be.

 

[Capella]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

Don't worry, we all still have plenty of time to laugh at the impending Derek Lowe deal.Besides he's going to be the starting RF for the defending AL champs.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

His offense doesn't warrant a corner OF position as a starter.

 

[whoknew]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

His offense doesn't warrant a corner OF position as a starter.

He'll make a fine platoon. Joyce faired pretty well as a 23 year old last year. And the Rays get like 6 years of him cheap. As I said in the Tiger thread, I keep trying to find the silver lining on this, but it's pretty difficult. I don't think Joyce will be a star, but he has a decent shot to be an above-average RF. And the Rays get him cheap for 6 years.

 

[blackjack23]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

Don't worry, we all still have plenty of time to laugh at the impending Derek Lowe deal.Besides he's going to be the starting RF for the defending AL champs.

oof

 

[Capella]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

Don't worry, we all still have plenty of time to laugh at the impending Derek Lowe deal.Besides he's going to be the starting RF for the defending AL champs.

oof

I know you're trying but you're in no position to try and crack jokes here buddy.And let's face it, you never heard of the guy before I started this thread.

 

[blackjack23]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

Don't worry, we all still have plenty of time to laugh at the impending Derek Lowe deal.Besides he's going to be the starting RF for the defending AL champs.

oof

I know you're trying but you're in no position to try and crack jokes here buddy.And let's face it, you never heard of the guy before I started this thread.

Im a baseball fanatic. I follow it more than any other sport buddy.

 

[Capella]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

Don't worry, we all still have plenty of time to laugh at the impending Derek Lowe deal.Besides he's going to be the starting RF for the defending AL champs.

oof

I know you're trying but you're in no position to try and crack jokes here buddy.And let's face it, you never heard of the guy before I started this thread.

Im a baseball fanatic. I follow it more than any other sport buddy.

You have never heard of him before you logged on today. Be honest.

 

[MAC_32]

Rays get cheap, young, slightly above replacement value corner outfielder for a below average arm.

Tigers get a much needed arm for the short term at the price of a player at a position we were already relatively deep at.

I have no problems with this deal.

 

[Homer @ RJ]

Very underrated trade. EJax pitching well for Detroit and Joyce is beating the piss out of the ball (.430 OBP last I checked) in AAA.

 

[The Ghost of Common]

Im a baseball fanatic. I follow it more than any other sport buddy.

You have never heard of him before you logged on today. Be honest.

can't believe I missed this...

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Lord what fools these Tigers be.

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not, speak then unto me.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Dr Detroit come in, Dr Detroit do you read me, over.

I like it, thanks.

 

[meeka]

A little too much analysis for a trade for a backup OF.

Don't worry, we all still have plenty of time to laugh at the impending Derek Lowe deal.Besides he's going to be the starting RF for the defending AL champs.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

All-Star, still liking it.

 

[igbomb]

I like this tread.

 

[Knightro]

I'd still do the trade again today.

Jackson and Knapp in Detroit have clicked - something he and Hiccup Hickey could never do. Joyce is killing it in AAA and will be the Rays starting RF next year and beyond. Right now - trade very much in favor of Detroit if they resign Jackson as he's close to FA.

 

[Capella]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.

It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

Joyce is a 4th OFer, not sure why this is a complex concept.There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

 

[jobarules]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

ur overrating joyce

 

[Knightro]

There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

A plus-plus defender in RF who should get 450ish at bats (doesn't hit lefties well) - works fine for me with Upton in CF and Desmond Jennings in LF in the next 12 months. Matt LaPorta - a guy everyone calls a stud prospect - he and Joyce are neck and neck in stats in AAA this year. Joyce's wOBA is higher and he's showing speed with 11 steals. He could be a 20/20 guy in Tampa once he gets to run under Maddon's green-light system.

 

[Capella]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

Joyce is a 4th OFer, not sure why this is a complex concept.There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

Knightro knows more about prospects than you probably know about anything. I'm going to go with his word here.And Joyce has had a great year in Durham.

 

[Capella]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

Joyce is a 4th OFer, not sure why this is a complex concept.There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

by the way, one could also say you're going to be disappointed if you expect Jackson to be as good as he was in the first half for the next few years.you excited about your Lions this year?

 

[Capella]

There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

Matt LaPorta - a guy everyone calls a stud prospect - he and Joyce are neck and neck in stats in AAA this year. Joyce's wOBA is higher and he's showing speed with 11 steals. He could be a 20/20 guy in Tampa once he gets to run under Maddon's green-light system.

Don't bring stats and numbers into this. Dr. Seattle says he sucks. Deal with it.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

Matt LaPorta - a guy everyone calls a stud prospect - he and Joyce are neck and neck in stats in AAA this year. Joyce's wOBA is higher and he's showing speed with 11 steals. He could be a 20/20 guy in Tampa once he gets to run under Maddon's green-light system.

Don't bring stats and numbers into this. Dr. Seattle says he sucks. Deal with it.

Jesus you're a ####### tool when you know you look like a turd. I know you just started watching baseball last year but seriously just stiffle. 20/20 is not exactly the stud you think he's going to be and I think this points out what you know about Joyce and baseball: ****.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

 

[Doctor Detroit]

There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

A plus-plus defender in RF who should get 450ish at bats (doesn't hit lefties well) - works fine for me with Upton in CF and Desmond Jennings in LF in the next 12 months.

I don't think he's a plus defender but I've read various scouting reports over the past two+ years that were mixed in their opinions of his fielding ability and plus-plus is something he is definitely not. He may have a plus arm but he takes questionable angles to the ball and his instincts seem to be lacking but I think Tampa recognized this and are already working with him which shows Tampa not only has a lot of talent in their system, but is coaching that talent pretty well.

Moreover, the Rays want Joyce to work on his fielding. Apparently he had some adventures in right field for Tampa—even Joyce acknowledged as much in an interview conducted after his demotion. Fielding skills are notoriously difficult to gauge. The poster child for that is Derek Jeter, who looks in many ways like a terrific shortstop but whose ratings by most metrics are very low. In other words, although Joyce looked perfectly decent to me out in the field at the DBAP, clearly there are complicating factors.

But the best part about this whole fielding thing is the awesome quote it generated from Rays’ manager Joe Maddon: “We want Joyce to be a good defender also. We don’t want guys to come through here and try to pigeon-hole themselves in one aspect of the game. We want our guys to be aware of the liberal arts form of baseball.” The liberal arts form of baseball. Joyce also needs to write a paper on Socrates, study the Crimean War, and take a theater design course. I love Joe Maddon. I want to compare wine notes and discuss the cave paintings at Lascaux with Joe Maddon.

I also witnessed in the 2nd row in RF last, him make one of the worst plays I've ever seen an OFer make referenced here. It's something you rarely see at the major league level and frankly it's something you rarely see beyond little league. Also to get Joyce out just throw him a steady stream of off speed pitches which he has a lot of issues with. He can hit a fastball though, and he can hit fastballs from the best pitchers in baseball but so can a lot of guys. In time he should be able to handle the breaking stuff a little better but PECOTA seems to think for now he's going to have trouble with the off-speed stuff. A lot of that could be him jumping from Double A to the majors and then not getting a lot of ABs and maybe he's working out some of those bugs at AAA this year. I'm sure they are throwing him a steady stream of breaking balls there when he's hot so that may get him to the point where he's better equipped in the majors to handle various pitch count scenarios, which seemed to be his problem last year after teams didn't throw him fastballs in fastball counts after they figured out the guy can unload.

Still looks as though he is having trouble vs LH pitching:

AB H 2B 3B HR W IW HP K SH SF GDP AVG OBP SLG OPS BABIP vs. LH 62 16 7 0 1 4 0 2 20 0 1 2 0.258 0.319 0.419 0.738 0.366 vs. RH 182 53 16 1 9 34 1 0 44 0 1 3 0.291 0.401 0.538 0.939 0.341His career minor league OPS vs LHP is .724, that's not good for a corner OFer. He also is still striking out a ton regardless of what side he's facing. I'm not saying Joyce doesn't have the potential to be a good player, and they have control of him for a long time at a cheap price to watch him develop... I'm just saying all this kind of talk:

Joyce should be a stud in right for years

....is probably a little optimistic.

 

[meeka]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.

It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

Joyce is a 4th OFer, not sure why this is a complex concept.There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

by the way, one could also say you're going to be disappointed if you expect Jackson to be as good as he was in the first half for the next few years.you excited about your Lions this year?

Proof of grasping for straws or just acting like a dolt.

 

[Capella]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.

It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

Joyce is a 4th OFer, not sure why this is a complex concept.There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

by the way, one could also say you're going to be disappointed if you expect Jackson to be as good as he was in the first half for the next few years.you excited about your Lions this year?

Proof of grasping for straws or just acting like a dolt.

Hi dummy. He's a Seahawks fans. Loves Detroit though. Making fun of him for that has been my shtick for years now.Might not want to stick your beak in.

 

[Capella]

There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

A plus-plus defender in RF who should get 450ish at bats (doesn't hit lefties well) - works fine for me with Upton in CF and Desmond Jennings in LF in the next 12 months.

I don't think he's a plus defender but I've read various scouting reports over the past two+ years that were mixed in their opinions of his fielding ability and plus-plus is something he is definitely not. He may have a plus arm but he takes questionable angles to the ball and his instincts seem to be lacking but I think Tampa recognized this and are already working with him which shows Tampa not only has a lot of talent in their system, but is coaching that talent pretty well.

Moreover, the Rays want Joyce to work on his fielding. Apparently he had some adventures in right field for Tampa—even Joyce acknowledged as much in an interview conducted after his demotion. Fielding skills are notoriously difficult to gauge. The poster child for that is Derek Jeter, who looks in many ways like a terrific shortstop but whose ratings by most metrics are very low. In other words, although Joyce looked perfectly decent to me out in the field at the DBAP, clearly there are complicating factors.

But the best part about this whole fielding thing is the awesome quote it generated from Rays’ manager Joe Maddon: “We want Joyce to be a good defender also. We don’t want guys to come through here and try to pigeon-hole themselves in one aspect of the game. We want our guys to be aware of the liberal arts form of baseball.” The liberal arts form of baseball. Joyce also needs to write a paper on Socrates, study the Crimean War, and take a theater design course. I love Joe Maddon. I want to compare wine notes and discuss the cave paintings at Lascaux with Joe Maddon.

I also witnessed in the 2nd row in RF last, him make one of the worst plays I've ever seen an OFer make referenced here. It's something you rarely see at the major league level and frankly it's something you rarely see beyond little league. Also to get Joyce out just throw him a steady stream of off speed pitches which he has a lot of issues with. He can hit a fastball though, and he can hit fastballs from the best pitchers in baseball but so can a lot of guys. In time he should be able to handle the breaking stuff a little better but PECOTA seems to think for now he's going to have trouble with the off-speed stuff. A lot of that could be him jumping from Double A to the majors and then not getting a lot of ABs and maybe he's working out some of those bugs at AAA this year. I'm sure they are throwing him a steady stream of breaking balls there when he's hot so that may get him to the point where he's better equipped in the majors to handle various pitch count scenarios, which seemed to be his problem last year after teams didn't throw him fastballs in fastball counts after they figured out the guy can unload.

Still looks as though he is having trouble vs LH pitching:

AB H 2B 3B HR W IW HP K SH SF GDP AVG OBP SLG OPS BABIP vs. LH 62 16 7 0 1 4 0 2 20 0 1 2 0.258 0.319 0.419 0.738 0.366 vs. RH 182 53 16 1 9 34 1 0 44 0 1 3 0.291 0.401 0.538 0.939 0.341His career minor league OPS vs LHP is .724, that's not good for a corner OFer. He also is still striking out a ton regardless of what side he's facing. I'm not saying Joyce doesn't have the potential to be a good player, and they have control of him for a long time at a cheap price to watch him develop... I'm just saying all this kind of talk:

Joyce should be a stud in right for years

....is probably a little optimistic.

Don't have a lot of time to respond to all of this...but what young player doesn't struggle against off-speed stuff? Also, pretty common for lefties to have a hard time against lefties at the dish. I also don't mind a .738 OPS against lefties. That's not great, but it's also not exactly Ben Grieve either, when you also consider his numbers against righties.Two other things...this is the team that took Carlos Pena, Ben Zobrist and Jason Bartlett from also-rans to all-stars. I'll take my chances that they can turn this guy (more purely talented than those guys, save Pena) into a legit corner-outfielder. And also, once again, the trade was essentially (in Rays terms) Niemann and Joyce for Jackson. Niemann would've been squeezed, and he's been terrific.

 

[meeka]

Obviously working for Detroit, but as Knightro said, Tampa Bay would still do this deal. Joyce should be a stud in right for years, and if they had kept Jackson, the Rays wouldn't have room for Niemann...who is killing it right now.

It's a good trade for both teams. Not sure why that's a complex concept.

Joyce is a 4th OFer, not sure why this is a complex concept.There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

by the way, one could also say you're going to be disappointed if you expect Jackson to be as good as he was in the first half for the next few years.you excited about your Lions this year?

Proof of grasping for straws or just acting like a dolt.

Hi dummy. He's a Seahawks fans. Loves Detroit though. Making fun of him for that has been my shtick for years now.Might not want to stick your beak in.

Mayday, mayday, he's going down.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Don't have a lot of time to respond to all of this...but what young player doesn't struggle against off-speed stuff? Also, pretty common for lefties to have a hard time against lefties at the dish. I also don't mind a .738 OPS against lefties. That's not great, but it's also not exactly Ben Grieve either, when you also consider his numbers against righties.Two other things...this is the team that took Carlos Pena, Ben Zobrist and Jason Bartlett from also-rans to all-stars. I'll take my chances that they can turn this guy (more purely talented than those guys, save Pena) into a legit corner-outfielder. And also, once again, the trade was essentially (in Rays terms) Niemann and Joyce for Jackson. Niemann would've been squeezed, and he's been terrific.

This is all great for Tampa and I don't disagree with it. Really all I've ever said in this thread was I liked the trade for Detroit. If Tampa keeps having these guys like Zobrist have these incredible years with all that pitching, they'll be competitive with the elite teams for many years. Pena to a lesser extent, I just think he finally found the right situation with the right support and everything clicked. Maybe the same thing is happening to Jackson.

 

[igbomb]

There was no room for Jackson in Tampa, they got what they could get for him which makes sense to me but if you are expecting Joyce to be a "stud," you are going to be disappointed.

A plus-plus defender in RF who should get 450ish at bats (doesn't hit lefties well) - works fine for me with Upton in CF and Desmond Jennings in LF in the next 12 months. Matt LaPorta - a guy everyone calls a stud prospect - he and Joyce are neck and neck in stats in AAA this year. Joyce's wOBA is higher and he's showing speed with 11 steals. He could be a 20/20 guy in Tampa once he gets to run under Maddon's green-light system.

You guys are deluding yourselves. While Joyce certainly still has time to turn himself into something more than he is, up to this point he's been nothing more than a 4A player, of which the Tigers have several others already.While I hope Joyce turns into a good player, to say that Tampa would do the same trade today if they knew then what they know now is just silly.Also, the only thing that makes this thread funny is how several posters lampooned the Tigers for the trade when it happened. There were no comments of 'let's see how things worked out', just several along the lines of 'Tigers are doomed!". Pretty funny to look back now.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

the only thing that makes this thread funny is how several posters lampooned the Tigers for the trade when it happened. There were no comments of 'let's see how things worked out', just several along the lines of 'Tigers are doomed!". Pretty funny to look back now.

 

[iSnitch]

I think it's too early to say which team got the better end of this deal. We'll just have to wait and see how things turn out.

 

[meeka]

I think it's too early to say which team got the better end of this deal. We'll just have to wait and see how things turn out.

So far things look to favor the Tigs, but time will tell how this all works out.

 

[Green94]

Joyce is a 4th OFer, not sure why this is a complex concept.