Eli Manning, Retired and the HoF Debate (3 Viewers)

[BoltNlava]

Partly. I think Eli is wildly overrated & that it’s taken an awful lot of luck for him to have put up the #s he has.

I’ve never been a fan, and his compiling stats don’t impress me much. 

And that helmet catch was absolutely a huge factor in building his resume. 

One could argue that two of his worst throws were responsible for both of his superbowl rings.  

UNluckiest QB -Rivers.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Eli to Jax for Bortles. - who says no?

Jacksonville

 

[matuski]

Not hating or coming in this thread to beat a dead horse...but I can no longer watch the Giants play.  Eli is so, so painful to watch at this point.

Eli to Jax for Bortles. - who says no?

Keep Bortles.  He can move.

 

[cjack]

Don't forget lucky.

A two time Super Bowl Champ and MVP.  And a terrible game manager.  And lucky.

At least one of those MVPs should have gone to someone else, Justin Tuck. 

 

[matuski]

At least one of those MVPs should have gone to someone else, Justin Tuck. 

Tuck rhymes with luck.. I see what you did there.

 

[simey]

Eli is a compiler who’s team helped him win 2 Super Bowls more than he helped his team win them. Fact. 

It is a team sport. Eli is a big reason his team won during both postseasons to even reach the Super Bowl. They were underdogs both times going into the postseason, and Eli played well. Fact.

 

[shadyridr]

#6 all time passing yards.

#7 all time passing TDs.

2 Super Bowls

2 Super Bowl MVPs

Yea.. luck.  WHOOPS, did I do that?

If he was so good, how come he rarely finished as a QB1 in fantasy?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It is a team sport. Eli is a big reason his team won during both postseasons to even reach the Super Bowl. They were underdogs both times going into the postseason, and Eli played well. Fact.

Helmet catch 3-flies up kinda throw. Eli played well enough to not lose a super bowl, but almost not.  

And yes, it’s a team sport as I pointed out. And it took Eli’s teammate bailing him out with a ridiculous catch to extend that game & win the Super Bowl.  one could argue that Eli’s throw was more detrimental to the Giants success.

that’s why it’s known as “the Tyree helmet catch” and not “the Eli awesome throw”.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If he was so good, how come he rarely finished as a QB1 in fantasy?

I’ll go one further - if Super Bowl wins are a mark of QB greatness, why isn’t Trent Dilfer considered one of the greats? 

 

[matuski]

If he was so good, how come he rarely finished as a QB1 in fantasy?

I completely relate to evaluating real life careers based on magic football.

Strongest argument against Eli's accomplishments yet.

 

[matuski]

I’ll go one further - if Super Bowl wins are a mark of QB greatness, why isn’t Trent Dilfer considered one of the greats? 

Luck right?  If he were luckier.. all time great.

 

[simey]

Helmet catch 3-flies up kinda throw. Eli played well enough to not lose a super bowl, but almost not.  

And yes, it’s a team sport as I pointed out. And it took Eli’s teammate bailing him out with a ridiculous catch to extend that game & win the Super Bowl.  one could argue that Eli’s throw was more detrimental to the Giants success.

Do you remember how many defenders were all over Eli to even make that throw? He got out of a gang on his back, and threw the ball high and Tyree jumped and caught it with two hands, but a defender got his hand on it and Tyree held on to it with his hand and helmet.  Eli threw a TD after that. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Luck right?  If he were luckier.. all time great.

Actually no - Dilfer was not lucky, other than lucky to be the QB for a team with one of the all-time great defenses. Dilfer was lucky in the same way that Stevie Ray Vaughn’s drummer & bassist were lucky. 

But in the games, he was a careful, safe, game manager. He showed poise under pressure & made good decisions in an offense that didn’t require much more from him.

there was no David Tyree helmet catch.

there was no corner of the end zone unbelievable toe tap catch. 

Dilfer was a good QB who’s team helped him win a Super Bowl. 

Eli was a mediocre QB who’s teams helped him win 2 Super Bowls, but needed a couple of really lucky catches to do it. 

 

[shadyridr]

I completely relate to evaluating real life careers based on magic football.

Strongest argument against Eli's accomplishments yet.

You quoted his touchdowns and yards as some great accomplishment. Last I checked the two biggest drivers of fantasy points are.... drum roll please.... touchdowns and yards. 

 

[IHEARTFF]

I feel like we have this discussion every 2 years or so. Eli was great in the 07 and 11 playoffs. Can't take that away from him just like you can't take 12 away from Flacco. But otherwise, the bulk of his career he has been mediocre. His best accomplishment is being healthy enough to play every week. His stats are not good and his teams are not successful.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Do you remember how many defenders were all over Eli to even make that throw? He got out of a gang on his back, and threw the ball high and Tyree jumped and caught it with two hands, but a defender got his hand on it and Tyree held on to it with his hand and helmet.  Eli threw a TD after that. 

I remember it well.

So are you gonna clain that was a great throw, or are you admitting that it was a really, really dumb throw into triple coverage that should have been intercepted but that Tyree bailed him out of? 

Because only one of those two things can be true. And the reality is Eli almost threw that game away by choking under pressure & throwing that ball. 

Question: if that ball was picked off, or incomplete, are we even having a conversation about whether Eli is a great QB? 

I’m thinking probably not. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I feel like we have this discussion every 2 years or so. Eli was great in the 07 and 11 playoffs. Can't take that away from him just like you can't take 12 away from Flacco. But otherwise, the bulk of his career he has been mediocre. His best accomplishment is being healthy enough to play every week. His stats are not good and his teams are not successful.

Well said. Compiler. He stayed healthy. He was part of a couple teams good enough to win, and I concede, he’s had some above average performances, some even bordering on great. 

But Eli is not as great as some contend, nor is he as great as the sum of his accomplishments.  

A pretty easy approach to the question of Eli’s greatness is to make a list of say, 30 QBs you’d want to start a franchise around. They can be from any era 

does Eli make the list? 

He doesnt make mine. 

How deep would I have to extend that list in order to include Eli? 

Man - that’s a tough one. That would have to be one long damn list.

 

[matuski]

You quoted his touchdowns and yards as some great accomplishment. Last I checked the two biggest drivers of fantasy points are.... drum roll please.... touchdowns and yards. 

This thread is awesome.

In the face of top 10 all time numbers, 2 super bowls, and 2 super bowl MVPs, we have:

1) SO LUCKY

2) MAGIC FOOTBALL

 

[matuski]

Also - I have never once in my life said Eli was great.

His accomplishments are great.  Simple fact of the matter.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This thread is awesome.

In the face of top 10 all time numbers, 2 super bowls, and 2 super bowl MVPs, we have:

1) SO LUCKY

2) MAGIC FOOTBALL

good job ignoring every point I made to mischaracterize what I’ve said as only being attributed to luck. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Also - I have never once in my life said Eli was great.

His accomplishments are great.  Simple fact of the matter.

He compiled. That’s his accomplishment. 

Also pulled a biotch move to avoid playing for the Chargers, which led to him being a Giant; which is why he has 2 rings. 

Simple fact of the matter.  

 

[simey]

I remember it well.

So are you gonna clain that was a great throw, or are you admitting that it was a really, really dumb throw into triple coverage that should have been Interceted but that Tyree bailed him out of? 

It was a throw under duress.  I never said it was great throw, but it went straight to the guy he threw it to.  He should have been sacked, but got out of it. He was a QB trying to make something happen on a third down with a minute and a few seconds left. 

 

[matuski]

He compiled. That’s his accomplishment. 

Also pulled a biotch move to avoid playing for the Chargers, which led to him being a Giant; which is why he has 2 rings. 

Simple fact of the matter.  

Emotions >< fact.

Calling him lucky, calling him names... really is the core of your posting here.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It was a throw under duress.  I never said it was great throw, but it went straight to the guy he threw it to.  He should have been sacked, but got out of it. He was a QB trying to make something happen on a third down with a minute and a few seconds left. 

So that’s probably why it’s referred to as the Tyree helmet catch, and not the Eli Manning throw. 

I’m just sayin. That was one lucky ### play/catch. Sure, Eli didn’t take the sack. But that was a pretty lucky catch. 

 

[matuski]

So that’s probably why it’s referred to as the Tyree helmet catch, and not the Eli Manning throw. 

I’m just sayin. That was one lucky ### play/catch. Sure, Eli didn’t take the sack. But that was a pretty lucky catch. 

Wait was the WR lucky or was the QB lucky?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Emotions >< fact.

Calling him lucky, calling him names... really is the core of your posting here.

No; pointing out that some folks are overrating him based on compiled stats & a couple fortunate Super Bowl wins is the point of my participating

calling him names for the move he pulled in screwing the Chargers is just a personal opinion & pet peeve, since it circumvents the purpose of the NFL draft. And it was a biotch move. It was mostly his dad that deserves the scorn for the move, because reportedly Archie was behind it. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Wait was the WR lucky or was the QB lucky?

Both. It was the David Tyree helmet catch. It was a crazy insane lucky catch, and Eli was lucky it wasn’t picked, and that it was caught. Obviously. 

 

[matuski]

  OK i'll let the name calling go on.  Was a fun run.

I'll be here when luck gets him into the Hall of Fame.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So @matuski - I’m curious. Make a list of 30 QBs you’d start a franchise around. They can be from any era. 

Does Eli make your list? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

  OK i'll let the name calling go on.  Was a fun run.

I'll be here when luck gets him into the Hall of Fame.

That’s pretty much what’ll get him in, along with having the last name “manning”. 

He will be one of the most controversial HOF inclusions to date. 

 

[IHEARTFF]

Surely he has plenty of memorable moments and seasons worthy of an all time great and future hall of famer. Let us regale the many highlights of his illustrious 15 year career.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Dilfer was lucky in the same way that Stevie Ray Vaughn’s drummer & bassist were lucky. 

Waded in here to see what the discussion was about, and to say that for a thread that started back a full 5 years ago, despite his up and downs Eli certainly has stayed relevant enough in this league -- while not anyone I'd trust this year, that alone is impressive.

Then saw this line -- what a fantastic analogy to bolster a point, well done.

I will say that Stevie Ray Vaughn's bassist wasn't just "lucky" to hit gold latching on to SRV -- the guy played with Johnny Winter at Woodstock after all. Solid bassist in and of his own right.

Point being, you can't simply rely on luck to have a successful career, no matter what the industry. Manning will understandably be a polarizing QB in terms of belief in his talents, but again, not many QBs have been a central topic for conversation for nearly a decade and a half. That isn't just luck.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Waded in here to see what the discussion was about, and to say that for a thread that started back a full 5 years ago, despite his up and downs Eli certainly has stayed relevant enough in this league -- while not anyone I'd trust this year, that alone is impressive.

Then saw this line -- what a fantastic analogy to bolster a point, well done.

I will say that Stevie Ray Vaughn's bassist wasn't just "lucky" to hit gold latching on to SRV -- the guy played with Johnny Winter at Woodstock after all. Solid bassist in and of his own right.

Point being, you can't simply rely on luck to have a successful career, no matter what the industry. Manning will understandably be a polarizing QB in terms of belief in his talents, but again, not many QBs have been a central topic for conversation for nearly a decade and a half. That isn't just luck.

Yep - I wasn’t denigrating SRV’s bassist at all. He was amazing, as was his drummer. SRV surrounded himself with talent. But undoubtedly they were lucky to have a otherworldly talent as a frontman. Much like Dilfer was talented, but very lucky to have an amazing run game & defense around him. 

 

 

[Faust]

Eli Manning: 'Hard to imagine' not playing for Giants

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

UNluckiest QB -Rivers.

I would put Steve McNair in that unluckiest  convo. His receiver was 1 yard away from a ring in Super Bowl XXXIV. AKA, “The Tackle”.

....then getting shot & killed by his ex g/f is pretty unlucky as well, of course - but that’s unrelated to his NFL production. :(  

 

[Tau837]

I have hope for Spencer Pulley because a year ago he was a highly rated C according to PFF

This is blatantly incorrect. In 2017, PFF graded 47 centers, and Pulley ranked as follows:

• #45 overall
  
• #46 for pass blocking
  
• #44 for run blocking
  

That's why Pulley is no longer on the Chargers roster and they went out and signed vet FA Pouncey in the offseason.

 

[The Frankman]

This is blatantly incorrect. In 2017, PFF graded 47 centers, and Pulley ranked as follows:

• #45 overall
  
• #46 for pass blocking
  
• #44 for run blocking
  

That's why Pulley is no longer on the Chargers roster and they went out and signed vet FA Pouncey in the offseason.

That's weird, I saw a stat where he got excellent marks with the Eagles. Was that 2016 instead?

EDIT: Found it

Pulley started all 16 games for the Chargers in 2017, including playing through a knee injury through the second-half of the season. Prior to getting hurt, Pulley rated as one of the NFL's premier centers. 

Last season, Pulley and Eagles center Jason Kelce were PFF's highest-graded centers through the first three weeks, both garnering grades of 93.9. 

The Giants signed Pulley of waivers on Sept. 2, after he was released by the Chargers coming out of the preseason. 

Did very well early in the season, got hurt but played through it and his performance suffered.

 

[Tau837]

He will be one of the most controversial HOF inclusions to date

I don't think so. Controversy implies that there will be serious debate about whether or not he should make the HOF. There won't be.

Rightly or wrongly, QBs tend to be judged against these criteria:

• Winning, particularly in postseason, particularly championships. Regardless of how well he played, how lucky he was, etc., he was the QB for two championships. Check.
  
• Stats. Eli will retire in the top 5-10 in a number of categories. Yes, in compiling statistics, not rate statistics, but ranking very high in compiling statistics is still a significant accomplishment. Check.
  
• Honors/awards. Eli won 2 Super Bowl MVPs. Check.
  
• Signature accomplishments. Eli had the long durability streak, which will end up 2nd or 3rd longest in NFL history for QBs, depending on whether or not Rivers passes him. Check.
  

In addition to that stuff, he played in the nation's #1 media market and has generally been well liked by the media. Media includes many HOF voters.

No controversy there.

Now, it is a different question to judge how well he compares to his peers and other historically great QBs. I wouldn't personally rate him very high in that kind of comparison, but that is a different subject than HOF worthiness.

 

[Tau837]

This is blatantly incorrect. In 2017, PFF graded 47 centers, and Pulley ranked as follows:

• #45 overall
  
• #46 for pass blocking
  
• #44 for run blocking
  

That's why Pulley is no longer on the Chargers roster and they went out and signed vet FA Pouncey in the offseason.

That's weird, I saw a stat where he got excellent marks with the Eagles. Was that 2016 instead?

They also graded him poorly in 2016. I don't have the full position lists, so don't have the ranks, but the actual grades were similar, a bit better on run blocking and a bit worse at pass blocking.

 

[dhockster]

I don't think so. Controversy implies that there will be serious debate about whether or not he should make the HOF. There won't be.

Rightly or wrongly, QBs tend to be judged against these criteria:

• Winning, particularly in postseason, particularly championships. Regardless of how well he played, how lucky he was, etc., he was the QB for two championships. Check.
  
• Stats. Eli will retire in the top 5-10 in a number of categories. Yes, in compiling statistics, not rate statistics, but ranking very high in compiling statistics is still a significant accomplishment. Check.
  
• Honors/awards. Eli won 2 Super Bowl MVPs. Check.
  
• Signature accomplishments. Eli had the long durability streak, which will end up 2nd or 3rd longest in NFL history for QBs, depending on whether or not Rivers passes him. Check.
  

In addition to that stuff, he played in the nation's #1 media market and has generally been well liked by the media. Media includes many HOF voters.

No controversy there.

Now, it is a different question to judge how well he compares to his peers and other historically great QBs. I wouldn't personally rate him very high in that kind of comparison, but that is a different subject than HOF worthiness.

Add in that he is Peyton's brother and Archie's son and that seals the deal.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Surely he has plenty of memorable moments and seasons worthy of an all time great and future hall of famer. Let us regale the many highlights of his illustrious 15 year career.

::crickets::

 

[Tau837]

That's weird, I saw a stat where he got excellent marks with the Eagles. Was that 2016 instead?

EDIT: Found it

Did very well early in the season, got hurt but played through it and his performance suffered.

That is odd. I don't understand how he could have had a 93.9 grade after 3 games in 2017, when his overall game grades for the first 3 weeks were 69.1, 60.5, and 83.0. It is definitely true, however, that his grade fell from there, ending up at 53.5 on the season. And that was pretty consistent with his 54.1 grade for 2016. So far in 2018, they have him at 60.3.

Regardless, I would put more stock in his 2 full season grades built on a large sample than on a 3 game sample to open last season.

 

[dhockster]

I believe Eli Manning will get into the Hall of Fame. I believe his 2 Super Bowl MVP's, his overall numbers due to playing a long time and never getting hurt, and his family name recognition will get him in.

As to whether he should get in, I don't think so. His QB rating rank among QB's by year is as follows: 23rd, 18th, 25th, 15th,  11th, 17th, 7th, 14th, 35th, 15th, 13th, 22nd, and 25th. So only once in his career was he ranked in the top 10 in QB rating. So how about QBR, that is a little better (one less year because QBR started in 2005): 17th, 18th, 12th, 8th, 12th, 9th, 9th, 34th, 14th, 13th, 25th, and 26th. So 3 times in the top ten, none in the top 5. Keep in mind that QB rating and QBR factors in all the relevant passing stats: Completion %, TD %, Int. %, average yards per attempt, etc. If Eli were a running QB, you could say I am not factoring that in by looking at QB rating, but if there is anything Eli is not, it is a running QB.

So he is an average to good QB who had two good playoff runs at exactly the same time the Giants defense stepped it up. While I give Eli quite a bit of credit for the 2nd Super Bowl, the first one is due much more to the Giants defense holding Tom Brady and the Patriots offense to 14 points.

I think it is significant that other than the two super bowl seasons, Eli has not won a playoff game going 0-4. His QB ratings in those 4 loses? 35.0, 85.6, 40.7, 72.1.

Perhaps I have a bias against Eli because I am an Eagles fan and Eli's record is bad against the Eagles, 10-19 in the regular season and 0-2 in the playoffs. He is 4-17 in his last 21 games against the Eagles. Needless to say, I do not fear playing the Giants because of Eli Manning.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I believe Eli Manning will get into the Hall of Fame. I believe his 2 Super Bowl MVP's, his overall numbers due to playing a long time and never getting hurt, and his family name recognition will get him in.

As to whether he should get in, I don't think so. His QB rating rank among QB's by year is as follows: 23rd, 18th, 25th, 15th,  11th, 17th, 7th, 14th, 35th, 15th, 13th, 22nd, and 25th. So only once in his career was he ranked in the top 10 in QB rating. So how about QBR, that is a little better (one less year because QBR started in 2005): 17th, 18th, 12th, 8th, 12th, 9th, 9th, 34th, 14th, 13th, 25th, and 26th. So 3 times in the top ten, none in the top 5. Keep in mind that QB rating and QBR factors in all the relevant passing stats: Completion %, TD %, Int. %, average yards per attempt, etc. If Eli were a running QB, you could say I am not factoring that in by looking at QB rating, but if there is anything Eli is not, it is a running QB.

So he is an average to good QB who had two good playoff runs at exactly the same time the Giants defense stepped it up. While I give Eli quite a bit of credit for the 2nd Super Bowl, the first one is due much more to the Giants defense holding Tom Brady and the Patriots offense to 14 points.

I think it is significant that other than the two super bowl seasons, Eli has not won a playoff game going 0-4. His QB ratings in those 4 loses? 35.0, 85.6, 40.7, 72.1.

Perhaps I have a bias against Eli because I am an Eagles fan and Eli's record is bad against the Eagles, 10-19 in the regular season and 0-2 in the playoffs. He is 4-17 in his last 21 games against the Eagles. Needless to say, I do not fear playing the Giants because of Eli Manning.

This is why I believe he’s 

1. Not as good as the sum of his accomplishments (e.g. a compiler who’s longevity is his most significant factor)

and

2. Going to be a highly controversial HOF selection

to me, a Hall of Fame player must

• dominate the era in which he played

• lead the league in statistical categories - how many times did Eli lead the league in yards? TDs? QBR? None?

• and/or have a significant impact on how the game is played. 

As far as I know,, Eli Manning is none of those things. His SB MVP awards were  judgement calls, not an “achievement”. And some might (correctly) argue that others were more deserving for their infividual performances in those 2 games. And even if Eli were deserving of those two Super Bowl MVPs, that’s a pretty insignificant “achievement” compared to his total body of work, which is pretty mediocre.

in that regard, longevity works against him, because he played so many games that it’s hard to say, “yeah but those two games!”

and what about those two Super Bowls that people keep trying to use to justify HOF status / all-time great status?

• 2007, 19/34 (55.9%) for 255 yards,2 TDs & 1 Int

• 2011 30/40 for 297 yards, 1 TD, 0 Ints. 75% completion, but just 7.4 yards per pass attempt. Checkdown Charlie for sure. 

“Super Bowl MVP” looks better on a resume than “mediocre QB who’s team played great defense & bailed him out of a couple of terrible passes under pressure” I guess.  

Eli Manning has never been a “great” QB. He’s been a decent, sometimes mediocre QB who twice played well enough for his team not to lose the super bowl, and was unfairly handed the MVP both years because his last name is Manning. 

Never led the league in any meaningful category any year, despite it adding up to “all-time” numbers. 

It’s going to be a sad day when they let a compiler into the Hall of Fame.  Hat tip to the old expression, they may actually need to rename it the, “Hall of Pretty Good” at that point, because Eli will be wholly undeserving. 

 

[Tau837]

to me, a Hall of Fame player must

Your criteria are interesting, and they represent most HOFers... but not all. That is because your criteria are not complete.

His SB MVP awards were  judgement calls, not an “achievement”... And even if Eli were deserving of those two Super Bowl MVPs, that’s a pretty insignificant “achievement” compared to his total body of work, which is pretty mediocre.

All honors/awards are subjective. Just like HOF voting. And some of the same voters vote on both.

Disagree completely that it is an insignificant achievement. It represents that he was the most valuable player on the winning side in a championship game. You may not agree, but the voters agreed, and it is absolutely significant. The complete list of players who have won at least 2 SBMVPs is Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, and Eli. Eli is clearly inferior to those other QBs, but that is elite company.

just 7.4 yards per pass attempt. Checkdown Charlie for sure.

The average YPA in the league that season was 7.2. 7.4 YPA is not "Checkdown Charlie."

You are just searching for stuff to pile on to support your opinion.

I agree with your general take that Eli has been a mediocre to good QB and generally has not been as good as most HOF players. But you are not objective in your assessment of him.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

All honors/awards are subjective. Just like HOF voting. And some of the same voters vote on both.

Disagree completely that it is an insignificant achievement. It represents that he was the most valuable player on the winning side in a championship game.

No, it doesnt “represent that he was the most valuable player on the winning side in a championship game” a it represents that some committee said he was - a judgement call, and one that may (absolutely was) strongly influenced politically, because his last name is “Manning”. 

Eli was wholly undeserving of that award. I’ve never heard anyone successfully defend it. It’s also meaningless compared to his otherwise mediocre career, since it’s a 2-game sample size.

and even if it were releavant, it only further proved how mediocre he is since he was utterly mediocre in those games.

as for my criteria, those are the metrics that the HOF committee typically uses to evaluate worthiness. 

But they won’t in Eli’s case because his last name is “Manning”. 

 

[Tau837]

No, it doesnt “represent that he was the most valuable player on the winning side in a championship game” a it represents that some committee said he was - a judgement call, and one that may (absolutely was) strongly influenced politically, because his last name is “Manning”. 

It absolutely represents that. That is the purpose of the award. Yes, it is subjective, and you obviously don't agree with his selection, but that is what the award means.

(Actually, it is typically a player from the winning side, but doesn't have to be, so that part isn't fully correct.)

as for my criteria, those are the metrics that the HOF committee typically uses to evaluate worthiness

Your list is too narrowly defined, incomplete, and remains subjective. As much as you may want to represent that all HOF voters use your list defined exactly the way you define it, that is not correct.

I'm not an Eli fan, and I'm going to bow out of this discussion, since it is clear you are not participating in this conversation with an open mind. Carry on with your bashing.

 

[dhockster]

It absolutely represents that. That is the purpose of the award. Yes, it is subjective, and you obviously don't agree with his selection, but that is what the award means.

(Actually, it is typically a player from the winning side, but doesn't have to be, so that part isn't fully correct.)

Your list is too narrowly defined, incomplete, and remains subjective. As much as you may want to represent that all HOF voters use your list defined exactly the way you define it, that is not correct.

I'm not an Eli fan, and I'm going to bow out of this discussion, since it is clear you are not participating in this conversation with an open mind. Carry on with your bashing.

QB's from the winning team have won the MVP 29 times out of 52. In a lot of games, the QB deserved the award. I would say that in games where nobody distinguished themselves, the default is to give the award to the QB on the winning team. I believe the 2007 Super Bowl was one of those games.

 

[thecardiackid]

why does anyone really care?

Eli had his moments.  and more pick 6s than anyone i can remember.   It's kinda sad to see him go out like this.

 

[dhockster]

why does anyone really care?

Eli had his moments.  and more pick 6s than anyone i can remember.   It's kinda sad to see him go out like this.

Because we like football and we like to talk about football? 

Why does anyone talk about anything?