Eviloutsider
Footballguy
Why are those headlines? They could walk, they could play. Where is Jones-Drew's tweets about them? Where is Deon questioning their heart?
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Erik Walden quit on the Packers.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eviloutsider
- Start date
TheChairman
Footballguy
Because they won.
scooterg61
Footballguy
cutler walked up and down the sidelines damn near the whole 2nd half... Pouncey was on crutches.. kinda hard to play on crutches.. duh!!
smackdaddies
Footballguy
while I agree with you overall thought, Walden is 3rd team, playing only because 1 and 2 are out. Where are those guys! All of em, quiters!
Dr. Gobbler
Footballguy
The sauce, it's weak.
A sprained MCL shouldn't keep your leader out of the NFC Championship game, especially against the Packers. With a brace and drugs he should/could have played. It's been done before.
A sprained MCL shouldn't keep your leader out of the NFC Championship game, especially against the Packers. With a brace and drugs he should/could have played. It's been done before.
MrSoup
Footballguy
Grade II MCL Tear which usually costs players 3-4 weeks. Let's see you do ANYTHING on that, let alone plant it in the ground to make an accurate throw or scramble away from pressure.
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scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Oh no, this is about Erik Walden, and I for one am mad as heck at him!
Dr. Gobbler
Footballguy
According to reports I just heard on ESPN radio they state it was not as bad as initially reported. Called a mild sprain from more than one report, according to the radio.
massraider
Footballguy
Sean Jensen, reporter for Chicago Sun-Times confirms a Grade II tear.
Doug B
Footballguy
Medically, any ligament tear is a sprain.
Gamblin'man
Footballguy
Sure looked fine dropping back in the 3rd quarter and pacing up and down the sidelines.
Bit odd this "serious" injury didn't get his leg iced or heavily taped.
...but keep telling yourself he had such a horrific injury that nobody could do ANYTHING on it lol.
Bit odd this "serious" injury didn't get his leg iced or heavily taped.
...but keep telling yourself he had such a horrific injury that nobody could do ANYTHING on it lol.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
MJD quit on the Jags, missing a big game and parts of others while still in the playoff race.
massraider
Footballguy
That's the difference. People giving Cutler the benefit of the doubt aren't telling themselves anything, they waited till the diagnosis, which, lo and behold, was that it was a 3 to 4 week injury. The people telling themselves things are the ones that decided, from their couches, that he should have been playing. LOL indeed.
Resident A
Footballguy
A Grade 2 MCL sprain is a tear, it's just not a complete rupture.
I had a grade 2 MCL sprain last year. I wasn't able to put all my weight on it for 2 days, and I limped for about a week. I couldn't run on it until the 4th week, and cutting would've been very painful before the 5th or 6th week.
They probably could've shot Cutler's knee up & put him in a brace to allow him to play, but I doubt he'd have been very effective. I can't see somebody moving around much at all. The Bears were better off with Hanie. I'm not a Bears or Cutler fan, but if he really has a grade 2 sprain, I understand why he sat. If it were me, I'd have said F-it and done whatever possible to finish the NFC Championship game.
I had a grade 2 MCL sprain last year. I wasn't able to put all my weight on it for 2 days, and I limped for about a week. I couldn't run on it until the 4th week, and cutting would've been very painful before the 5th or 6th week.
They probably could've shot Cutler's knee up & put him in a brace to allow him to play, but I doubt he'd have been very effective. I can't see somebody moving around much at all. The Bears were better off with Hanie. I'm not a Bears or Cutler fan, but if he really has a grade 2 sprain, I understand why he sat. If it were me, I'd have said F-it and done whatever possible to finish the NFC Championship game.
Barry Foster
Footballguy
So, does this mean Ryan Grant quit on the Packers? WOW, what's going to happen to him? I mean, the dude "quit" on his team for 16+ games. Cutler ain't got nothing on THAT!
(extreme sarcasm noted)
(extreme sarcasm noted)
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Don't forget Finley!So, does this mean Ryan Grant quit on the Packers? WOW, what's going to happen to him? I mean, the dude "quit" on his team for 16+ games. Cutler ain't got nothing on THAT!(extreme sarcasm noted)
Sinrman
Footballguy
Didn't Rivers play with a torn or sprained MCL in the playoffs a few years back...?
Phlash
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Different injuries, and Rivers got a cortisone shot, which diabetics cannot do.Apologize for the facts, hope they don't get in the way of the witch hunt!
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
This is a very good point.
cr8f
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
I don't get it.
switz
Footballguy
Except for the fact it's not true, and it's not the only anti-inflammatory they have available. Cortisone may cause a spike in blood sugar, but it also may not. Is there any record of Cutler reacting adversely to cortisone?
massraider
Footballguy
Not true?Well, it's not the whole story, that's for sure.Rivers sat out the 4th quarter of the game he was injured in, and had surgery, fitted with a brace, then a shot.Other than that, exact same situations!
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I am not a Bear fan ad have no dog in the fight, but I have a hard time believing that Cutler could have played on the knee. Cutler have taken many big hits from sacks the last two seasons and always got up and played on. I truly believe that if he could have played he would have played. Cutler is far from soft.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
An ACL is far less important than an MCL. Lots of people have torn ACL's and not known it.
cr8f
Footballguy
If Cutler defenders would let it go most who bashed him I think would get over it. I didn't think he tried after getting hurt but looking at the game again he did try. Early in the 3rd he wasn't planting because he looked to be in pain.But bringing it up again by saying Walden got better treatment just keeps the story alive.
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
Are you sure? I thought it was the other way around. I don't think lots of athletes have torn their ACL and not known it.http://espn.go.com/trainingroom/s/1999/1005/98677.html
Jeremy: What is an MCL? How does that differ from a ACL. which one is worse?
Dr. King: MCL stands for medial collateral ligament. ACL stands for anterior cruciate ligament. The MCL is a ligament that is outside of the knee joint and located on the innner aspect of the knee. The ACL is located inside the knee joint in the center of the knee. Tearing the MCL is better than tearing the ACL because the MCL will heal itself because it has adequate blood supply on the outside of the knee joint. The ACL, because it's located inside the knee joint, loses blood supply when torn and has no capability of repair. Most ACL injuries require surgery to prevent instability. Most MCL injuries can be treated without surgery when they occur in isolation.
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thatguy
Footballguy
I actually had this exact injury while wrestling in high school. There was absolutely no way I could have continued wrestling that day. I did suck it up and wrestle for reginoals the following week, against the advice of my doctor, and did a lot of further damage. This type of injury makes it difficult to put any sort of pressure on the injured leg, let alone the pressure necessary to plant and throw the ball downfield. I fully beleive that had Jay been phsyically capable of not only playing, but playing well, he'd have been out there. No doubt in my mind.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I think there are a lot of factors in play. But I do think that one CAN be functional with an ACL tear. If I am not mistaken, Brian Westbrook tore his ACL in college (or high school) and never had it repaired. It was a big medical "red flag" and was one of the reasons he dropped in the draft. I wouldn't be at all surprised to know I popped my ACL 15 years ago or so. I had all of the symptoms, just never bothered having it diagnosed, because I didn't have the time/money to have a surgery at that point in my life anyway. It's still a little wobbly, but I can play most sports nearly as well as I ever did (aside from being old, fat and out of shape that is). Just my memory of things here, take it for what it's worth.The fact that the ACL doesn't heal as well (or at all) as the MCL, doesn't necessarily mean it provides more or less support for the joint or fills a more important function etc.
To me the bottom line is that every injury is different, and unless I have a clear diagnosis from someone I believe saying there is no significant injury, I'm never going to judge a pro athlete for not performing with any particular injury. Just doesn't make sense. We have no idea what the guy feels like or what he can and can't do with that injury. Basing your expectations for a guy on anecdotal BS like we've been seeing around here is pretty lame IMO.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Yes I am very sure. ACL injuries take a long time to recover from, but it terms of mechanical importance to the knee, it is no contest. The MCL is far more important. If you read the answer that is basically what he says. Second, I know a lot more about knee mechanics than King does.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
There are plenty of examples of athletes having torn their ACL and never get it repaired. Curtis Martin and DeJuan Blair are two that come to mind.
buck naked
Footballguy
While I would normally agree with you on this point, considering that Cutler has no mechanics and just whips it with his arm, your point loses its emphasis. For any sound QB mechanically, your point would be true.
thatguy
Footballguy
Seriously. I'm thinking about checking out the Megalodon Pool.
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doowain
Footballguy
MJD played nearly the entire season on a torn meniscus. I wouldn't call that "quitting".
treat88
Footballguy
I don't think it's fair at all to attack Cutler for coming off the field because of the whole if you don't know, don't judge argument.
So, for me I have no reason to question his toughness.
He absolutely displayed a stunning lack of leadership on the sidelines though. Hood up, sullen faced, sitting by himself on the bench with his team in a tight game battling for the win. 100% unacceptable.
Dude's an ahole, but McDaniels absolutely knew what he was doing in Cutler's case.
So, for me I have no reason to question his toughness.
He absolutely displayed a stunning lack of leadership on the sidelines though. Hood up, sullen faced, sitting by himself on the bench with his team in a tight game battling for the win. 100% unacceptable.
Dude's an ahole, but McDaniels absolutely knew what he was doing in Cutler's case.
Ookie Pringle
Footballguy
Where in that answer does he say the MCL is more important than the ACL? You know more about knee injuries than Dr. Warren King?
http://www.warrenkingmd.com/mp_bio.htmlDr. Warren King joined the Palo Alto Medical Foundation's Sports Medicine Department in 1991. He received his medical degree from the University of Southern California in Los Angeles and did his surgical internship and residency at the University of Southern California’s Los Angeles County Medical Center. He then spent one year receiving specialized training in sports medicine as a fellow with the Kerlin-Jobe Orthopedic Clinic in Los Angeles. While at the Kerlin-Jobe Clinic, he worked with the Los Angeles Lakers, Dodgers and Kings, caring for numerous professional and amateur athletes.
Dr. King came to the San Francisco Bay Area to work with the San Francisco 49ers before joining PAMF. While at PAMF, Dr. King has been the team orthopedic surgeon for the San Francisco Giants, assistant
orthopedic surgeon for the San Jose Sharks, and currently serves as the
head orthopedic surgeon for the Oakland Raiders and co-orthopedic
surgeon for the Golden State Warriors.
. In addition, he is the chief orthopedic surgeon for the United States Rugby Organization and has provided medical coverage of several professional soccer events, including the World Cup. Dr. King also cares for many local high school and college athletes, including those at the College of San Mateo.
Dr. King is the director of PAMF’s sports medicine fellowship, through which he oversees the education and surgical training of orthopedic doctors interested in developing additional expertise in sports medicine. He is actively involved in orthopedic research and serves on the advisory boards of a number of orthopedic organizations.
His hobbies include surfing, skiing, fishing, running and cycling, and he owns and pilots his own airplane.
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Ookie Pringle
Footballguy
Plenty? How many pro athletes are there? It is by far an exception if an athlete plays with a torn ACL and not getting it repaired. Let's not make this seem like it happens all they time. It doesn't.
switz
Footballguy
Either you are being sarcastic, or you misunderstood King's quote. ACLs are more important than MCLs. In reality, all the ligaments are equally important, but an ACL injury is worse than an MCL injury. Also MCL damage is less likely to cause damage to other ligaments than an ACL.
switz
Footballguy
Urban legend. And the disintegration you are referring to is the meniscus, it's not a ligament, it is just a cushion between the bones. Losing your meniscus is painful, but doesn't structurally impact a knee like losing a ligament does.
trader jake
Footballguy
[/thread]
Road Dogg
Footballguy
ALLEGED Grade II MCL Tear
I want independent analysis of this so called MRI, assuming an MRI was taken, which I do not believe
what? LOSING?
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Where in that answer does he say the MCL is more important than the ACL? You know more about knee injuries than Dr. Warren King?
Dr. Warren King joined the Palo Alto Medical Foundation's Sports Medicine Department in 1991. He received his medical degree from the University of Southern California in Los Angeles and did his surgical internship and residency at the University of Southern California’s Los Angeles County Medical Center. He then spent one year receiving specialized training in sports medicine as a fellow with the Kerlin-Jobe Orthopedic Clinic in Los Angeles. While at the Kerlin-Jobe Clinic, he worked with the Los Angeles Lakers, Dodgers and Kings, caring for numerous professional and amateur athletes.
Dr. King came to the San Francisco Bay Area to work with the San Francisco 49ers before joining PAMF. While at PAMF, Dr. King has been the team orthopedic surgeon for the San Francisco Giants, assistant
orthopedic surgeon for the San Jose Sharks, and currently serves as the
head orthopedic surgeon for the Oakland Raiders and co-orthopedic
surgeon for the Golden State Warriors.
. In addition, he is the chief orthopedic surgeon for the United States Rugby Organization and has provided medical coverage of several professional soccer events, including the World Cup. Dr. King also cares for many local high school and college athletes, including those at the College of San Mateo.
Dr. King is the director of PAMF’s sports medicine fellowship, through which he oversees the education and surgical training of orthopedic doctors interested in developing additional expertise in sports medicine. He is actively involved in orthopedic research and serves on the advisory boards of a number of orthopedic organizations.
His hobbies include surfing, skiing, fishing, running and cycling, and he owns and pilots his own airplane.
