FBG Movie Club: DotM: Billy Wilder (1 Viewer)

[KarmaPolice]

I didn't talk him up much in the original review, but I think James Stewart is a national treasure. He can do no wrong in my eyes.

 

[Ilov80s]

I own it on blu ray

Yeah, my blu ray collection has gotten a little crazy. I love Billy Wilder so any time I see a movie of his on sale, I buy it.

Well, now we both own it. That's the movie that was getting shipped since I saw it was on sale for $15. I got Ninotchka from the library today as well, so the plan is to watch that first tonight and maybe do a true double feature with A Foreign Affair. If not, I will watch it on my day off tomorrow.

Ok good, now I'm not the only member of dork city lol

Nope, I have also noticed my bluray buying gaining steam. On rewatches I will poke at some special features, so I still prefer this mode over streaming, plus I don't have to risk our dumb internet flaking out. What I had planned on starting is buying 1 movie each month from the director of the month. I counted Schindler's for my month 1 even though it was a Christmas gift. The main reason for that is I noticed I only had Double Indemnity from Wilder (the Criterion 4K) and thought I'd like to get 2-3 from him instead. Not sure what else I will get - it looks like The Apartment is the only other 4k at the moment.

@Andy Dufresne or others - can you recommend a website that might show upcoming 4k releases? One reason I don't buy more is I get annoyed when I get something and the 4k comes out a few months later.

Some Like It Hot is on 4K... pretty sure at least

 

[Ilov80s]

The Shop Around the Corner

This was the movie hinted at that covered all the categories for "influences". I just loved this movie. Yeah, I've seen the Hanks/Ryan remake before knowing about this movie which is a reason I was dragging my feet a little watching this. My enjoyment of the movie had a lot to do with it's ability to still surprise me with the plot and humor. One thing that strikes me is how dark many of the classics I see get (Mr. Matuschek's subplot). It makes perfect sense, considering what the world was going through in 1940. As far as the funny, what really got me was the running gags - Pirovtch ducking out and the cigarette box. On top of that were the barbs back and forth and the looks from Jimmy. I'm trying to be vague so not to spoil it for anybody else who might to a first time watch.

The slight negatives were that I didn't fully love the female lead. Not sure who would have been better at that time, and I am sure some of it is my love of Jimmy Stewart and part was how she was written. I thought she was just a little too mean. I think that eroded a little at my desire for them to get together at the end. I thought the ending felt slightly abrupt and ended on a weird call back. Again, nitpicks - I really loved this movie. At least an 8.5/10 rating.

I see why it's on Wilder's list of all-timers and it was a slam dunk case for how he is connected to Lubitsch. All the things that come to mind when I think of most of the Wilder movies I've seen so far were front and center here: great laughs, great side characters, an undercurrent of darkness, and heart. I'm so glad I decided to squeeze this one in last night as I wait for tonight's movie to get shipped.

Agreed, Margaret Sullavan rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Not just in this movie but in general. She was reportedly very mean in real life. A bully who frightened a lot of people in Hollywood. She's fine in the movie and many people love her performance here but it's the weak spot for me. What I do love is the cast of supporting characters. That's something I think Wilder really took from Lubistch. No wasted parts, no wasted roles. No matter how small.

That's interesting about Sullavan. You are saying maybe it was a bit of her natural personality bubbling up, maybe making the meanness of the interactions stick out even more? I struggled with her character after the pivotal diner scene. Like I was mentally telling Jimmy to stay away. I was thinking about what I remember of Meg Ryan's role in the remake and was imagining her instead and how that would work with Jimmy in this movie.

Yeah and perhaps that is why Lubitsch cast her? He wanted a tough woman for the role to really sell the idea that her and Steward didn't care for each other.

 

[nightmare]

I own it on blu ray

Yeah, my blu ray collection has gotten a little crazy. I love Billy Wilder so any time I see a movie of his on sale, I buy it.

Well, now we both own it. That's the movie that was getting shipped since I saw it was on sale for $15. I got Ninotchka from the library today as well, so the plan is to watch that first tonight and maybe do a true double feature with A Foreign Affair. If not, I will watch it on my day off tomorrow.

Ok good, now I'm not the only member of dork city lol

Nope, I have also noticed my bluray buying gaining steam. On rewatches I will poke at some special features, so I still prefer this mode over streaming, plus I don't have to risk our dumb internet flaking out. What I had planned on starting is buying 1 movie each month from the director of the month. I counted Schindler's for my month 1 even though it was a Christmas gift. The main reason for that is I noticed I only had Double Indemnity from Wilder (the Criterion 4K) and thought I'd like to get 2-3 from him instead. Not sure what else I will get - it looks like The Apartment is the only other 4k at the moment.

@Andy Dufresne or others - can you recommend a website that might show upcoming 4k releases? One reason I don't buy more is I get annoyed when I get something and the 4k comes out a few months later.

Best 4K Blu-ray Deals

www.blu-ray.com

Toolbar is set to Amazon but you can change it to Itunes, Google play, Vudu, etc.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I own it on blu ray

Yeah, my blu ray collection has gotten a little crazy. I love Billy Wilder so any time I see a movie of his on sale, I buy it.

Well, now we both own it. That's the movie that was getting shipped since I saw it was on sale for $15. I got Ninotchka from the library today as well, so the plan is to watch that first tonight and maybe do a true double feature with A Foreign Affair. If not, I will watch it on my day off tomorrow.

Ok good, now I'm not the only member of dork city lol

Nope, I have also noticed my bluray buying gaining steam. On rewatches I will poke at some special features, so I still prefer this mode over streaming, plus I don't have to risk our dumb internet flaking out. What I had planned on starting is buying 1 movie each month from the director of the month. I counted Schindler's for my month 1 even though it was a Christmas gift. The main reason for that is I noticed I only had Double Indemnity from Wilder (the Criterion 4K) and thought I'd like to get 2-3 from him instead. Not sure what else I will get - it looks like The Apartment is the only other 4k at the moment.

@Andy Dufresne or others - can you recommend a website that might show upcoming 4k releases? One reason I don't buy more is I get annoyed when I get something and the 4k comes out a few months later.

Some Like It Hot is on 4K... pretty sure at least

Ah, I see it farther down the list here. Looks like it is, but it's not the Criterion. Then I also see 4k of The Apartment and Stalag 17.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I own it on blu ray

Yeah, my blu ray collection has gotten a little crazy. I love Billy Wilder so any time I see a movie of his on sale, I buy it.

Well, now we both own it. That's the movie that was getting shipped since I saw it was on sale for $15. I got Ninotchka from the library today as well, so the plan is to watch that first tonight and maybe do a true double feature with A Foreign Affair. If not, I will watch it on my day off tomorrow.

Ok good, now I'm not the only member of dork city lol

Nope, I have also noticed my bluray buying gaining steam. On rewatches I will poke at some special features, so I still prefer this mode over streaming, plus I don't have to risk our dumb internet flaking out. What I had planned on starting is buying 1 movie each month from the director of the month. I counted Schindler's for my month 1 even though it was a Christmas gift. The main reason for that is I noticed I only had Double Indemnity from Wilder (the Criterion 4K) and thought I'd like to get 2-3 from him instead. Not sure what else I will get - it looks like The Apartment is the only other 4k at the moment.

@Andy Dufresne or others - can you recommend a website that might show upcoming 4k releases? One reason I don't buy more is I get annoyed when I get something and the 4k comes out a few months later.

The Digital Bits - The 4K Ultra HD Release List

thedigitalbits.com

 

[KarmaPolice]

The Shop Around the Corner

This was the movie hinted at that covered all the categories for "influences". I just loved this movie. Yeah, I've seen the Hanks/Ryan remake before knowing about this movie which is a reason I was dragging my feet a little watching this. My enjoyment of the movie had a lot to do with it's ability to still surprise me with the plot and humor. One thing that strikes me is how dark many of the classics I see get (Mr. Matuschek's subplot). It makes perfect sense, considering what the world was going through in 1940. As far as the funny, what really got me was the running gags - Pirovtch ducking out and the cigarette box. On top of that were the barbs back and forth and the looks from Jimmy. I'm trying to be vague so not to spoil it for anybody else who might to a first time watch.

The slight negatives were that I didn't fully love the female lead. Not sure who would have been better at that time, and I am sure some of it is my love of Jimmy Stewart and part was how she was written. I thought she was just a little too mean. I think that eroded a little at my desire for them to get together at the end. I thought the ending felt slightly abrupt and ended on a weird call back. Again, nitpicks - I really loved this movie. At least an 8.5/10 rating.

I see why it's on Wilder's list of all-timers and it was a slam dunk case for how he is connected to Lubitsch. All the things that come to mind when I think of most of the Wilder movies I've seen so far were front and center here: great laughs, great side characters, an undercurrent of darkness, and heart. I'm so glad I decided to squeeze this one in last night as I wait for tonight's movie to get shipped.

Agreed, Margaret Sullavan rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Not just in this movie but in general. She was reportedly very mean in real life. A bully who frightened a lot of people in Hollywood. She's fine in the movie and many people love her performance here but it's the weak spot for me. What I do love is the cast of supporting characters. That's something I think Wilder really took from Lubistch. No wasted parts, no wasted roles. No matter how small.

That's interesting about Sullavan. You are saying maybe it was a bit of her natural personality bubbling up, maybe making the meanness of the interactions stick out even more? I struggled with her character after the pivotal diner scene. Like I was mentally telling Jimmy to stay away. I was thinking about what I remember of Meg Ryan's role in the remake and was imagining her instead and how that would work with Jimmy in this movie.

Yeah and perhaps that is why Lubitsch cast her? He wanted a tough woman for the role to really sell the idea that her and Steward didn't care for each other.

I guess that's the tough balance to strike - that they don't like each other, but needing a spark there for the audience to want them together at the end.

 

[Ilov80s]

I own it on blu ray

Yeah, my blu ray collection has gotten a little crazy. I love Billy Wilder so any time I see a movie of his on sale, I buy it.

Well, now we both own it. That's the movie that was getting shipped since I saw it was on sale for $15. I got Ninotchka from the library today as well, so the plan is to watch that first tonight and maybe do a true double feature with A Foreign Affair. If not, I will watch it on my day off tomorrow.

Ok good, now I'm not the only member of dork city lol

Nope, I have also noticed my bluray buying gaining steam. On rewatches I will poke at some special features, so I still prefer this mode over streaming, plus I don't have to risk our dumb internet flaking out. What I had planned on starting is buying 1 movie each month from the director of the month. I counted Schindler's for my month 1 even though it was a Christmas gift. The main reason for that is I noticed I only had Double Indemnity from Wilder (the Criterion 4K) and thought I'd like to get 2-3 from him instead. Not sure what else I will get - it looks like The Apartment is the only other 4k at the moment.

@Andy Dufresne or others - can you recommend a website that might show upcoming 4k releases? One reason I don't buy more is I get annoyed when I get something and the 4k comes out a few months later.

Some Like It Hot is on 4K... pretty sure at least

Ah, I see it farther down the list here. Looks like it is, but it's not the Criterion. Then I also see 4k of The Apartment and Stalag 17.

Kino Lorber does a great job with their releases...oh and I am dumb ofcourse Stalag 17 is on 4K. I literally just watched it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I own it on blu ray

Yeah, my blu ray collection has gotten a little crazy. I love Billy Wilder so any time I see a movie of his on sale, I buy it.

Well, now we both own it. That's the movie that was getting shipped since I saw it was on sale for $15. I got Ninotchka from the library today as well, so the plan is to watch that first tonight and maybe do a true double feature with A Foreign Affair. If not, I will watch it on my day off tomorrow.

Ok good, now I'm not the only member of dork city lol

Nope, I have also noticed my bluray buying gaining steam. On rewatches I will poke at some special features, so I still prefer this mode over streaming, plus I don't have to risk our dumb internet flaking out. What I had planned on starting is buying 1 movie each month from the director of the month. I counted Schindler's for my month 1 even though it was a Christmas gift. The main reason for that is I noticed I only had Double Indemnity from Wilder (the Criterion 4K) and thought I'd like to get 2-3 from him instead. Not sure what else I will get - it looks like The Apartment is the only other 4k at the moment.

@Andy Dufresne or others - can you recommend a website that might show upcoming 4k releases? One reason I don't buy more is I get annoyed when I get something and the 4k comes out a few months later.

Some Like It Hot is on 4K... pretty sure at least

Ah, I see it farther down the list here. Looks like it is, but it's not the Criterion. Then I also see 4k of The Apartment and Stalag 17.

Kino Lorber does a great job with their releases...oh and I am dumb ofcourse Stalag 17 is on 4K. I literally just watched it.

Ah, that's what it's like to read one of my posts.

 

[KarmaPolice]

thanks for the links, @nightmare and @Andy Dufresne

However that was probably a "careful what you ask for" situation, as I didn't know there were so many 4Ks I could buy.

 

[KarmaPolice]

One of the many areas in movies and tech that I am behind on is what to look for with the 4Ks. What I mean is I assume there are good and bad transfers, but is that the correct assumption - are there bad 4k versions that make a bluray version still a better purchase? Or are 4Ks always going to look better than the bluray version? How do the Criterion discs factor in and how are their versions better than a standard bluray or 4k?

 

[KarmaPolice]

I mean, how the hell am I supposed to not buy Footloose in 4K after seeing Nightmare's link??

 

[Ilov80s]

One of the many areas in movies and tech that I am behind on is what to look for with the 4Ks. What I mean is I assume there are good and bad transfers, but is that the correct assumption - are there bad 4k versions that make a bluray version still a better purchase? Or are 4Ks always going to look better than the bluray version? How do the Criterion discs factor in and how are their versions better than a standard bluray or 4k?

4K will always have better resolution and clarity but yes there are some 4K transfers that some people like less than the bluray. Often it's because they changed the color tinting or totally erased all the film grain to make it look like it was filmed digitally. A bunch of people are complaining about all the Jim Cameron 4Ks that are coming out. They are saying he's made them look too perfect and it doesn't look right. American Graffiti 4K got a similar review and it supposedly looks kind of plastic now when that was very much on film and kind of low budget.

I rely on reading reviews, I just search the movie and 4k review to see what a couple sites think. Also I sometimes search on Twitter if it's a newer release to see if people are talking about it. Youtube has reviews as well.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

One of the many areas in movies and tech that I am behind on is what to look for with the 4Ks. What I mean is I assume there are good and bad transfers, but is that the correct assumption - are there bad 4k versions that make a bluray version still a better purchase? Or are 4Ks always going to look better than the bluray version? How do the Criterion discs factor in and how are their versions better than a standard bluray or 4k?

4K will always have better resolution and clarity but yes there are some 4K transfers that some people like less than the bluray. Often it's because they changed the color tinting or totally erased all the film grain to make it look like it was filmed digitally. A bunch of people are complaining about all the Jim Cameron 4Ks that are coming out. They are saying he's made them look too perfect and it doesn't look right. American Graffiti 4K got a similar review and it supposedly looks kind of plastic now when that was very much on film and kind of low budget.

I rely on reading reviews, I just search the movie and 4k review to see what a couple sites think. Also I sometimes search on Twitter if it's a newer release to see if people are talking about it. Youtube has reviews as well.

If you dive into the BluRay/4k message boards you'll get a taste of what the dark web must me like.

If Joe Bryant went there he'd walk away thinking, "Well maybe our Politics Forum wasn't THAT bad ."

 

[Eephus]

What I do love is the cast of supporting characters. That's something I think Wilder really took from Lubistch. No wasted parts, no wasted roles. No matter how small.

Under the studio system, Lubitsch and Wilder had the greatest collection of character actors ever assembled at their disposal. When I see someone like Cuddles Sakall or Frank McHugh make his entrance, it's like seeing an old friend.

 

[Eephus]

Stalag 17

I didn't realize this would be such a good pairing with A Foreign Affair. Now it's certainly not for the romance. I don't think Stalag 17 has a single speaking role for a woman the closest we get to romance is an obsession with Betty Grable. Where they do connect is the World War 2 element. How do we take something deathly serious and make it funny? That's the Wilder specialty. Stalag 17 is maybe 80% successful for me. It certainly establishes the stakes: life or death. Yet, it also plays like a sitcom with goofy Cary Grant impressions, a doofy German officer and a guy named Animal who feels like he felt out of Delta Tau Chi in Animal House. I don't think it all totally works. William Holden is good but not sure why he got the Oscar for Best Actor. Using director Otto Preminger as the NAZI Colonel in charge is a genies stroke though. I liked Stalag 17 a lot more the first time I saw it. I think I was really into the mystery of who the rat is and the ingenuity of the Americans to hide their plotting the first time through. On re-watches, those elements aren't as intriguing and the characters seem a little too silly in spots.

Wilder listed La Grande Illusion among his ten favorite films. Erich von Stroheim's portrayal of the monocled captain who ran the prison set the mold for German officers in the movies. Wilder called on a different director in Preminger for a similar character in Stalag 17.

It's not easy to film a prison story that mixes comedy, drama and throws in a mystery as well. Wilder is able to thread that needle. It's especially impressive when you consider this was only eight years after the war.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not sure if anybody was planning on watching any newer ones, but what are some post 00s romantic comedies that people have really liked? Especially any that they think might have Wilder hallmarks.

 

[Don Quixote]

Not sure if anybody was planning on watching any newer ones, but what are some post 00s romantic comedies that people have really liked? Especially any that they think might have Wilder hallmarks.

Silver Linings Playbook comes to mind.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Cameron Crowe is a name I see mentioned several times when I search for directors influenced by Wilder as a starting point.

 

[Eephus]

4K will always have better resolution and clarity but yes there are some 4K transfers that some people like less than the bluray. Often it's because they changed the color tinting or totally erased all the film grain to make it look like it was filmed digitally. A bunch of people are complaining about all the Jim Cameron 4Ks that are coming out. They are saying he's made them look too perfect and it doesn't look right. American Graffiti 4K got a similar review and it supposedly looks kind of plastic now when that was very much on film and kind of low budget.

Meanwhile, my next contribution to this thread will be for a movie that I could only find as a dodgy SD print with slightly out of sync subtitles.

 

[Eephus]

Cameron Crowe is a name I see mentioned several times when I search for directors influenced by Wilder as a starting point.

Crowe did a series of interviews with Wilder and published them as a book in 1999.

Wilder's style is subtle and doesn't lend itself to homage/parody. He's kind of a chameleon who changes his technique to suit his material. That's a throwback to when he got his start when you worked on whatever ou were assigned by the studio. With popularity he was able to get more power and control over his projects.

I enjoy Cameron Crowe's work but I couldn't see him envisioning and executing something like Sunset Boulevard.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Cameron Crowe is a name I see mentioned several times when I search for directors influenced by Wilder as a starting point.

Crowe did a series of interviews with Wilder and published them as a book in 1999.

Wilder's style is subtle and doesn't lend itself to homage/parody. He's kind of a chameleon who changes his technique to suit his material. That's a throwback to when he got his start when you worked on whatever ou were assigned by the studio. With popularity he was able to get more power and control over his projects.

I enjoy Cameron Crowe's work but I couldn't see him envisioning and executing something like Sunset Boulevard.

I should have been more clear- I was specifically talking rom coms there (in my head I was at least). Even there I don't see Cameron Crowe, but that could be my Jerry Maguire hatred talking.

 

[Eephus]

I should have been more clear- I was specifically talking rom coms there (in my head I was at least). Even there I don't see Cameron Crowe, but that could be my Jerry Maguire hatred talking.

I can't think of any better modern comps either.

 

[Eephus]

The Wilder character actors discussion sent me down an IMDB rabbit hole to The Penitent (1988), the only film written and directed by Cliff Osmond. Wilder used Osmond in a number of his late-career films, most memorably as the private investigator Chester Purkey in The Fortune Cookie.

I was able to find a streaming print of The Penitent but a couple of really poor reviews made me think better (for the moment).

The Penitent (1988) ⭐ 6.5 | Drama

1h 34m | PG-13

www.imdb.com

 

[KarmaPolice]

Right on brand instead of getting to Ninotchka, I went down a little rabbit hole thinking about my question to the group last night about modern romantic comedies.

Cameron Crowe didn't make sense to me when I read it like I said. Just going on the base idea presented that Wilder excels at dialogue, humor, side characters, and a mix of darkness/sadness the name that popped into my head first was Richard Curtis. I've soured on Love Actually over the years but I am still a huge fan of Four Weddings and a Funeral, Notting Hill, and About Time. Now, I am not making any claims of making a 1:1 comparison and realize Wilder is a GOAT, but I think people will find those pieces we love from Wilder in those movies. There's DNA there, but in no way do I think any person we name could also do the other genres like Wilder did at a high level. I couldn't find 4 Weddings for free for a rewatch, and I've seen Notting Hill too many times, so instead I watched...

ENOUGH SAID

And I am sooo glad I did. This was a movie that I always rank highly, tell other people to watch, and it came to mind right away after I asked about modern romantic comedies. A gem of a movie that I think also mostly fits the questions we are asking about influences. Louis-Dreyfus and Gandolfini are great together, and I laughed a lot. It's pg-13 so it doesn't go too hard on the serious topics, but there is also some genuire heart and sadness as well. Just an all-around great movie. Great ending and a couple I am rooting for always is a bonus for the genre. I don't want to talk about it too much in case others haven't seen this one. I can't recommend it enough for a modern romantic comedy.

That also got me watching another output from Nicole Holofcener (who wrote and directed Enough Said) this morning - You Hurt My Feelings. This one also has a Louis-Dreyfus in it, and this time she plays a writer who overhears her husband talk honestly about a book she is trying to get published. I didn't like it quite as much as Enough Said, but similar DNA we are talking about again. The core theme to the movie - how you react to somebody you love's work, was handled well here. I also sense she has some frustration with therapists too, and David Cross is awesome as one member of a couple in Dreyfus' husband's office. I remember seeing Friends with Money and thinking it was OK, and at least not a typical rom-com. A couple others of Nicole's I see got some critical praise, so I plan on checking those out soon too. I think her name should be explored for this discussion as well.

 

[KarmaPolice]

It's odd that I would pimp any TV shows, but I love series that have the ability to get belly laughs and cries out of me. That goes along with what we are talking about with some of what draws me to Wilder. 3 shows that come to mind that have done that in the last decade are: Ted Lasso, Atypical, and After Life.

 

[Ilov80s]

Haven’t seen Enough Said but recently rewatched 4 Weddings and a Funeral. I can see the Wilder connection- it held up quite well. I think when I first saw it when I was like 14 the fact the 2 guys were lovers went right over my head lol. How the heck did miss that?

 

[Eephus]

That also got me watching another output from Nicole Holofcener (who wrote and directed Enough Said) this morning - You Hurt My Feelings.

I watched this one recently and enjoyed it a lot. I thought it was very well written; it worked in her theme in a variety of different ways without feeling forced.

 

[Eephus]

Happy 99th birthday to Jack Lemmon

 

[Dr. Octopus]

James Stewart

You can call him "Jimmy".

 

[Ilov80s]

James Stewart

You can call him "Jimmy".

Big Jimmy from what I’ve heard

 

[Don Quixote]

Not related to Billy Wilder, but not sure where else to put… Spike Lee and Denzel remaking “High and Low”… not sure how I feel about that. Initial reaction was sort of a “why?” But there have been some other good Kurosawa remakes.

Anyway, I’m sure KP and 80s are miles ahead of me, but Kurosawa could be a good one for this concept between his films and films influenced by Kurosawa.

 

[Eephus]

Cafe Society (2016)

Woody Allen is a name we haven't mentioned as a modern filmmaker influenced by Wilder but that may be because he's been making movies for so long that he doesn't fit the modern category. Like Wilder, he's a true auteur as both the writer and director of his films. We've mentioned how Wilder was equally adept at comedy and drama. Allen is primarily known as a comedian but some of his finest films are serious stories.

Cafe Society stars Jesse Eisenberg as an ambitious young man trying to make it in 1930s Hollywood. There are numerous hat tips to Wilder and other classic Hollywood figures in a script that really overdoes the name dropping. One of the characters mentions Wilder's name in passing and there are visual shoutouts to two of his greatest female leads: Gloria Swanson and Barbara Stanwyck. Allen has called The Apartment the greatest American film--Cafe Society's central love story between Eisenberg and Kristen Stewart has echoes of the Wilder classic. Eisenberg's performance contains equal parts of Allen and Jack Lemmon while Stewart brings a gamine charm that's kind of like Shirley McLaine. Their love triangle includes an older man in a position of power that's similar to Fred McMurray in The Apartment. Events don't play out the same way but it does end on New Year's Eve. I think the big difference is Cafe Society lacks the cynical edge of Wilder. Whatever Allen's failings as a human being, as an artist he's an incontrovertible romantic. The multiple relationships in this movie are all pure of heart which works against this somewhat shapeless movie. The characters make big pronouncements about life and love but their actions don't follow their words.

I wanted to love Cafe Society more than I did. It's a beautiful film shot with a golden glow by the great cinematographer Vittorio Storaro. It looks better than other Allen films I've seen perhaps because he was given a bigger budget to work with than usual. As a romance, the interlocking love stories lack passion and don't come to much of a resolution when the credits roll. As a comedy, what laughs there are all come from the supporting cast rather than Eisenberg and Stewart's relationship. I also felt their looks and manner seemed out of place in a period piece which may be based more on my preconceptions of the actors than their on-screen performances. In retrospect, I probably should have watched Match Point and compared it to Double Indemnity.

 

[Ilov80s]

Oh duh didn’t even think of the Wilder influence on the writer-director in general.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Also, not directly related to Wilder but I have been watching a great documentary series on Prime - The Story of Film: An Odyssey

I figure anybody who is movie enough to poke their head in here will dig this. It's a slow, in depth, 15 hour series about the history of film. I have found it endlessly interesting and so far (I've gotten through 4 Episodes so far). I am just rounding into the 40s now I believe. I love how it progresses and you see the stacking of ideas and tech and how themes of movies progressed around the world.

 

[Eephus]

15 hours definitely qualifies as an odyssey

 

[Eephus]

Johnny Dangerously (1984)

When Johnny Dangerously came out in 1984, Young Eephus was way cooler than he'd ever be again so he had no time for a movie that seemed really dumb. When an older me finally got around to watching it 40 years later, I discovered it indeed is really dumb but also really funny--I can't remember the last movie that made me laugh this much. I think I'm in a better position now to appreciate the movie's extreme silliness.

Johnny Dangerously is the third comedy set in the 1930s that I've watched this month. The script parodies old gangster movies turning as many movie cliches as possible on their heads. There are gags on top of gags--even one one fails there's another coming right up. A lot of the jokes hit their mark for me although the batting average fell off a little towards the end. Michael Keaton delivers a preposterous over-the-top portrayal of the title character but his total commitment to the Cagney bit makes it work. The movie has a strong supporting cast of character actors; Maureen Stapleton is hilarious as Keaton's mother and even Joe Piscopo is enjoyable one time (Once!) as a violent gangster named Danny Vermin.

So where's the Billy Wilder connection? Johnny Dangerously was directed by Amy Heckerling who is best known for Fast Times at Ridgemont High (1982) and Clueless (1991). She's also a great admirer of Wilder and has mentioned Ace in the Hole as one of her favorite movies. Wilder returned the favor by sponsoring Heckerling's application to join the Directors Guild of America. Other than that, there's an obvious point of comparison to Some Like It Hot because of the 30s gangster subject matter but Johnny Dangerously's style and pace is much more reminiscent of Airplane! or Mel Brooks than Wilder's classic comedy.

Directing comedy movies is tough because humor evolves quickly as the audience rolls over to the next generation. It was probably even tougher for a woman director in an industry that's still dominated by men. Johnny Dangerously was Heckerling's second feature after making a huge debut with Fast Times. She didn't write the script for either but Clueless, which she wrote and directed, was a huge hit, a fixture of 90s culture and a career peak. She notoriously followed that by recycling the plot of The Apartment for her career-killing bomb Loser (2000). A couple of her early naughts comedies got caught up in studio politics and never got a proper release. So a little more than a decade after Clueless, she transitioned to doing stuff for TV where she still works today. It does make you appreciate Wilder's longevity. He directed comedy for parts of six decades (although funny ones for only five). Reputation doesn't go as far as it used to in Hollywood and for later generations of comedic director, you're only as good as your last picture.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Fargin bastages!!!

 

[Keith R]

Irma La Douce

This was another I had DVRed off of TCM months ago but hadn't watched. This is a witty, unconventional romance even for today; I imagine it was pretty cutting edge in 1963. Quite clearly based on a play, which I have a slight bias against unless the transition from stage to film is seamless (the best example of this being done right I can think of is A Few Good Men). This is from the "romantic" category, which usually isn't my wheelhouse. So I did like this movie and would recommend but for my tastes, this was a step behind Wilder's other film I saw this month, Witness for the Prosecution.

Looking at the two films together, the traits I can ascribe to Wilder's films begin with quick, witty dialogue. He is able to make that a staple regardless of setting. Another thing that stood out after the fact was the economical use of set design. These do not look like expensive movies to film, but that did not affect the quality. The final commonality is having a loaded third act. I'll check out some more films of his later on and hope they all have these traits.

 

[Eephus]

Irma La Douce

This was another I had DVRed off of TCM months ago but hadn't watched. This is a witty, unconventional romance even for today; I imagine it was pretty cutting edge in 1963. Quite clearly based on a play, which I have a slight bias against unless the transition from stage to film is seamless (the best example of this being done right I can think of is A Few Good Men). This is from the "romantic" category, which usually isn't my wheelhouse. So I did like this movie and would recommend but for my tastes, this was a step behind Wilder's other film I saw this month, Witness for the Prosecution.

Looking at the two films together, the traits I can ascribe to Wilder's films begin with quick, witty dialogue. He is able to make that a staple regardless of setting. Another thing that stood out after the fact was the economical use of set design. These do not look like expensive movies to film, but that did not affect the quality. The final commonality is having a loaded third act. I'll check out some more films of his later on and hope they all have these traits.

I haven't watched this in decades but I still remember Shirley McLaine's green dress.




But that's another story.

 

[Eephus]

Ace in the Hole (1951)

Ace in the Hole was a critical and box office failure when released but has come to be regarded as one of Wilder's greatest films. What it says about truth and corruption is as relevant in 2024 as it was in 1951. It does so in a taut and entertaining package that's never dull.

Kirk Douglas stars as a disgraced newspaper reporter who's exiled to New Mexico at the beginning of the story. He stumbles upon the story of a lifetime and makes the most of his big break dragging everyone he meets along with him. He is a classic cynical and arrogant Wilder anti-hero, similar to the characters WIlliam Holden played in Sunset Boulevard and Stalag 17. Douglas goes big with his performance but he's always believable even in his most scenery-chewing monologues.

Wilder co-wrote the script along with Walter Newman and Lesser Samuels. It's a terrific piece of writing loaded with dialog that cuts to the quick. Supporting characters are each given their own individual moral dilemmas but these don't bog down the momentum of the plot. Wilder's direction makes the most of the Southwestern setting. There are a number of outstanding overhead shots to illustrate how the story has grown in importance. These contrast with the cramped quarters inside of the cave which were obviously filmed on a soundstage but effective cinematography and lighting make them look more realistic than some other films I can name (King Solomon's Mines). The sound design is notable as well with the sound of the drill and carnival music adding to the atmosphere.

I suspect the ending was somewhat dictated by the Hollywood production code as all the characters' decisions must ultimately bear consequences. The movie might have been even darker if Wilder didn't have to satisfy the censors but it's hard to imagine how it could have been much better.

There's a rip of the restored Criterion edition in the Internet Archive.

 

[Don Quixote]

Reminder that A Foreign Affair on TCM at noon ET tomorrow.

I haven’t seen that one yet, but DVR is set.

 

[Eephus]

Shampoo (1975)

I wasn't planning to write a DotM mini-essay when I sat down to watch Shampoo last night but I realized the many differences between it and Wilder's comedies made it worth writing about.

The basic premise of Shampoo isn't too far removed from Wilder's comedies--it's not hard to imagine Wilder casting Jack Lemmon or Tony Curtis as a LA hairdresser caught up in a love polygon with a number of his customers. But Shampoo plays out differently than the kind of comedies Wilder directed. Unlike Wilder's films which tend to be very efficiently plotted, the story of Shampoo meanders along as Warren Beatty's character hops from bed to bed. His character and the film itself are is obsessed with sexuality in more overt ways than Wilder was ever allowed by the censors. Beatty's character George thinks with his #### and as a result is rather inarticulate--the supporting cast gets most of the good lines. Shampoo is a comedy and a good one at that but it probably has fewer outright jokes than even many of Wilder's more dramatic efforts. Aside from a couple of slapstick moments, the humor is almost entirely character-based.

Shampoo is a great snapshot of LA in the late sixties. The Nixon stuff must have hit differently in 1975 but it serves as a good backdrop for George to reassess his life. He's shown constantly in motion during the movie whether riding through the canyons on his Triumph or in tracking shots through the salon. But for all his movement, he's going nowhere. By the time he realizes this, his world has changed from beneath him. Beatty is excellent in the role with equal parts of charm and confusion. His love interests are all beautiful and fascinating, especially Lee Grant in an Oscar-winning performance.

When Shampoo was made in 1975, Hollywood was very different from the town Wilder came to four decades earlier. The power structure had shifted away from the studios toward more star-oriented projects. Warren Beatty not only stars in Shampoo but also produced and co-wrote it (along with Robert Towne). Hal Ashby is onboard as the director but it's Beatty's project. I don't doubt that an artist as gifted as Wilder could have adapted to the changing times but he was nearing 70 at the time and his race was run.

 

[Ilov80s]

My wife and I are going to watch Enough Said tonight while we eat dinner and have some wine- I've never seen a Nicole Holofcener movie but I think it was mentioned upthread that she might fall into a Wilder archetype of funny sentimental romantic comedy.

 

[Eephus]

My wife and I are going to watch Enough Said tonight while we eat dinner and have some wine- I've never seen a Nicole Holofcener movie but I think it was mentioned upthread that she might fall into a Wilder archetype of funny sentimental romantic comedy.

You Hurt My Feelings was reminiscent of some of Woody Allen's comedies

 

[Eephus]

You know how I hate rankings but a few days ago, somebody at Collider took a shot at ranking Wilder's films. It's pretty chalky except for One, Two, Three which the writer called "one of his funniest and breeziest"

All 26 Billy Wilder Movies, Ranked

From timeless comedies like The Apartment to film noir classics like Double Indemnity, this is a ranking of every movie Billy Wilder directed.

collider.com

 

[KarmaPolice]

My wife and I are going to watch Enough Said tonight while we eat dinner and have some wine- I've never seen a Nicole Holofcener movie but I think it was mentioned upthread that she might fall into a Wilder archetype of funny sentimental romantic comedy.

Nice! I think you will enjoy this one.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not that I saw a ton of Wilder in the movie, but I landed on it because of our adventure here so I will post here that I watched Past Lives last night. It checks off the writer/director box anyway. I liked it a lot, but I get the impression I am a tad less enamored with it than the public. That it was a debut does give it extra marks, so it could be that adding to other people's scores as well. I think it was the male lead that held me back, but I need to think more on it. Last night I thought it would make a fantastic double feature with After Life, another international movie I saw recently and gushed over. Maybe I'll make that my rewatch of each later in the year.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I watched Past Lives because I like my Tuesday Night New Release theme, even when doing these director projects. What I wanted was more of a rom/com that was heavier on laughs, but they all looked pretty bad to me last night. Closest was the Jennifer Lawrence one, but I thought Past Lives sounded like a better use of my 2 hours last night.

Weds are Hump day rewatches, so I think I will ask the Mrs. what her favorite romantic comedy is and watch. She hates me asking that stuff usually, so I might have to figure out what my favorites are instead. .

 

[Eephus]

Weds are Hump day rewatches, so I think I will ask the Mrs. what her favorite romantic comedy is and watch. She hates me asking that stuff usually, so I might have to figure out what my favorites are instead. .

I think you lovebirds would really enjoy Mac & Me