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Feeling bad for the wife..... (1 Viewer)

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Footballguy
My 18 year old son has been living with my MIL for the last 3 weeks. He basically moved out because of an argument we had because of his laziness towards everything besides sports. He went through high school with a C average because he didn't put forth the effort to do any better. No matter what we said or did, if it wasn't sports or music, he basically did very little towards it. Don't get me wrong he's not a bad kid, but he's just not a self-motivated person.

A little background, the wife and I have 3 other kids. We make decent money, but are by no means rich. Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school. He didn't want to hear that, words flew, he left.

The problem comes in when he leaves. He goes over to MILs and tells her we put him out (lie #1). He also tells her that we were talking "down" to him (lie #2 I'm guessing he means us calling him lazy/unmotivated, but as a dad, speaking to his son, I have to call a spade a spade.). My SIL lives right next door to MIL and must have been there to hear his story. She comes over to get his clothes, and doesn't really say much to the wife and I. My wife refuses to give her his cellphone because we pay the bill, and she feels if he's gonna move, he shouldn't have that benefit. About an hour later, we recieved nasty voicemails/texts from MIL and SIL about how we are bad/poor parents, how could we put our own son out, why do we belittle our son, why did you take his phone away, yada, yada, yada (Now SIL has no kids and she's the one claiming we're poor parents). This crushes the wife. She's in tears for the rest of the day. This is nothing new from the MIL; as she has always done stuff like this. But what get's to her is that it's also coming from her sister. With 4 kids, the wife has little time for friends. Her sister is the closes thing that she has to a real good friend, someone she can have girltalk with. Now my SIL has always been a *****, but my wife glosses over that by saying things like, "That's just the way she is," or "she won't listen to me." I tolerate her because she's my wife sister, and they are pretty close. After the voicemail/text, I tell the wife I'm done with both of them. They both made things worst by not minding their own business. I demand an apology. The wife agrees.

Fast foward a week after the argument, my son tells MIL/SIL that we didn't kick him out and that we're only trying to motivate him with the lazy comments. Also, that there are millions of of times where we've been encouraging and supportive. And that the only reason he left was because we were always on his case about studying, being motivated, and his laziness. MIL immediately comes over to apologize, hugs and kisses me and the wife, tells us both that she's sorry and loves us. SIL comes over about two days later and acts like nothing happened. Wife says she talked to her waiting on an apology , but it never came. I see my wife talking to her and it makes my blood boil because it looks like she's just going to let this go too. SIL leaves and I ask her what did she say? Did she apologize? She says, "no, she drop off a teacher manual she doesn't need (both are teachers)." At this point, I get angry. I tell her that if she doesn't apologize, I'm having nothing to do with her. There will be no more toleration. The wife tells me to let her handle it. Five days later, still no apology.

My wife seems ok, but I just hate that her and the only close friend she has are on bad terms. I feel bad for my wife because it almost feels like I'm making her chose between myself and her sister. But I also think that we did nothing wrong in this whole situation and they (MIL/SIL) made things much worse than they should have been. And to call us bad/poor parents is just completely out of line (especially when she has zero kids). We both deserve an apology.

What's the shark move here? Should I have done or do anything differently?

 
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from what I've read you & your wife were doing the right thing and your MIL/SIL are doing your son no favors at all

and let your wife handle the sil situation

 
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Tell the sil what you think as briefly as possible and be nice thereafter. I think a beautiful bouquet of flowers with a nasty little note is appropriate here. If I held out for every apology I deserved from menopausal women, my family would be a mess. Stepping between sisters by demanding an apology from one or else is not your best moment. Maybe, just maybe, you're taking this too seriously. ;)

Good luck with the kid.

 
Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own. If you're going to pay for his school, then pay for it with the understanding that it will only be as long as he maintains his grades. I don't think you have a right to tell him where to go to school. If the issue is paying for his rent, then you're better off telling him that he's responsible for paying that himself.
 
Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
 
Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
This is what the kid is hearing "We'll pay for your school if you live at home so we can micro-manage your studying because we think you are too irresponsible and lazy to do it on your own. You'll just be lazy and get kicked out of school if you move away."
 
Tell the sil what you think as briefly as possible and be nice thereafter. I think a beautiful bouquet of flowers with a nasty little note is appropriate here. If I held out for every apology I deserved from menopausal women, my family would be a mess. Stepping between sisters by demanding an apology from one or else is not your best moment. Maybe, just maybe, you're taking this too seriously. ;)

Good luck with the kid.
I was think something along these lines too. But then I ask myself, when does this crap stop? How much do I take? At some point, someone needs to put SIL in her place.
 
%26%2339%3B timestamp='1312134089' post='13378501']

Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
This is what the kid is hearing "We'll pay for your school if you live at home so we can micro-manage your studying because we think you are too irresponsible and lazy to do it on your own. You'll just be lazy and get kicked out of school if you move away."
If every parent of a lazy 18-year-old said this to their kid, the world would be a better place.
 
Tell the sil what you think as briefly as possible and be nice thereafter. I think a beautiful bouquet of flowers with a nasty little note is appropriate here. If I held out for every apology I deserved from menopausal women, my family would be a mess. Stepping between sisters by demanding an apology from one or else is not your best moment. Maybe, just maybe, you're taking this too seriously. ;)

Good luck with the kid.
I was think something along these lines too. But then I ask myself, when does this crap stop? How much do I take? At some point, someone needs to put SIL in her place.
Give her the Eddie Murphy "Ice Cream" routine, but replace "ice cream" with "children".
 
%26%2339%3B timestamp='1312134089' post='13378501']

Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
This is what the kid is hearing "We'll pay for your school if you live at home so we can micro-manage your studying because we think you are too irresponsible and lazy to do it on your own. You'll just be lazy and get kicked out of school if you move away."
If every parent of a lazy 18-year-old said this to their kid, the world would be a better place.
No, this is what parents do today and a big part of the reason kids are so irresponsible.
 
Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own. If you're going to pay for his school, then pay for it with the understanding that it will only be as long as he maintains his grades. I don't think you have a right to tell him where to go to school. If the issue is paying for his rent, then you're better off telling him that he's responsible for paying that himself.
We've been telling him since the 9th grade that this would be the case if he didn't qualify for TOPS (state tuition exemption program - 3.0 overall required). So what your saying is to show my 3 other kids that they could be slackers in high school, but don't worry, mommy and daddy will still pay for you to go to the school of choice. If we let him go away to school, we may as well never open our mouth about grades and school to the other 3 kids.
 
Family fueds such as this are tough...i have a similar relationship with my father in law. I don't have much respect for him or the way he treats his family, although i generally just bite my tongue when we are together. I am not the kind of person that backs down from anyone however, for peace in the household i genarally just listen. Good luck with this.

 
%2526%252339%253B timestamp='1312134089' post='13378501']

Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
This is what the kid is hearing "We'll pay for your school if you live at home so we can micro-manage your studying because we think you are too irresponsible and lazy to do it on your own. You'll just be lazy and get kicked out of school if you move away."
If every parent of a lazy 18-year-old said this to their kid, the world would be a better place.
No, this is what parents do today and a big part of the reason kids are so irresponsible.
Yeah, right. Tough love makes kids lazy and entitled. :loco:
 
Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own. If you're going to pay for his school, then pay for it with the understanding that it will only be as long as he maintains his grades. I don't think you have a right to tell him where to go to school. If the issue is paying for his rent, then you're better off telling him that he's responsible for paying that himself.
We've been telling him since the 9th grade that this would be the case if he didn't qualify for TOPS (state tuition exemption program - 3.0 overall required). So what your saying is to show my 3 other kids that they could be slackers in high school, but don't worry, mommy and daddy will still pay for you to go to the school of choice. If we let him go away to school, we may as well never open our mouth about grades and school to the other 3 kids.
That's good that you laid it out years in advance, it seemed like it was something told to him his senior year. Kids need to understand the consequences of their actions and he's going to have to live with not trying harder.By the way, if he did so bad why does he even have a choice of schools?

 
Tough spot. I would be hard pressed not to dress down the SIL but you can only lose by doing that.

I would say the very best thing you could do was find a way to expand your wife's circle of friends. Maybe a couple half days of day care so she could do some Mommy day out thing. There are groups in every city that arrange lunches and outings for stay at homes Moms.

 
So your SIL acted like your SIL and your wife acted like your wife. What's there to do?
I don't know. That's why I'm here, but something needs to be done. I figured the FFA heads are better than one.
IMO, an apology that's given in response to a demand for one is worthless. And it's not like your SIL is going to change if you confront her.I'd watch a ball game and have a few beers.
 
How important is your relationship with your SIL?

Forgiveness and reconciliation are 2 different things. I see 4 options...

Option 1. You can forgive your SIL in your own mind without her admitting fault or apologizing, but the relationship will never be the same. But you can get the episode out of your mind (maybe).

Option 2. You could ask her to apologize, explain how it hurt you and your wife, and if she does, you would feel much closer to her than in #1, but if she refuses, then it would be even more difficult to forgive if it came to blows.

Options 3. Blow her off. Have as little to nothing to do with her as possible. She'll notice, but may not care. This is what most men would do, but I think it's the easiest way out but the least healthy.

Option 4. Tell her off. Go into the conversation not to seek resolution, but to put your foot down. This most certainly ruins relationships, but sometimes this is the only way to go with someone who has repeatedly and deeply hurt you. Last resort, hard boundary-setting.

Regardless, you should try to find out if your wife is really OK with her lack of apology or not. Chances are, she's not. And if that's the case, the next time SIL gets a little bossy or in her business, she will over-react, dragging her feelings from this episode into it. Then with 2 women being overly emotional, look out.

It is possible for your wife to have forgiven her in her heart. But it's really difficult, and takes time, without the participation of the offending party.

 
IMO, an apology that's given in response to a demand for one is worthless. And it's not like your SIL is going to change if you confront her.

I'd watch a ball game and have a few beers.
Options 3. Blow her off. Have as little to nothing to do with her as possible. She'll notice, but may not care. This is what most men would do, but I think it's the easiest way out but the least healthy.
Both of these posts resembles the way I feel, but I'm more worried about the wife and me having a problem with her one and only sister.
 
My 18 year old son has been living with my MIL for the last 3 weeks. He basically moved out because of an argument we had because of his laziness towards everything besides sports. He went through high school with a C average because he didn't put forth the effort to do any better. No matter what we said or did, if it wasn't sports or music, he basically did very little towards it. Don't get me wrong he's not a bad kid, but he's just not a self-motivated person.

A little background, the wife and I have 3 other kids. We make decent money, but are by no means rich. Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school. He didn't want to hear that, words flew, he left.
The two bolded sentences take care of the school situation. Got nothing for you regarding the SIL. :banned:
 
IMO, an apology that's given in response to a demand for one is worthless. And it's not like your SIL is going to change if you confront her.

I'd watch a ball game and have a few beers.
Options 3. Blow her off. Have as little to nothing to do with her as possible. She'll notice, but may not care. This is what most men would do, but I think it's the easiest way out but the least healthy.
Both of these posts resembles the way I feel, but I'm more worried about the wife and me having a problem with her one and only sister.
You can do that. Try your best to intentionally forgive her, just to yourself. Your wife needs to be way more careful though. This relationship is way more important to her that it is to you. Having your sister think poorly of your parenting is ####. Makes her self-conscious. My wife would let it slide too, but then I'd hear about every little comment that the SIL made for the rest of my life.

 
By this time in their life, your wife and her sister have their relationship established. It might be dysfunctional, but it seems to work for them. You can tell the sil how you feel for her interference and her jumping to conclusions about your parenting skills, but the hollow at best apology you get won't make you feel any better.

 
By this time in their life, your wife and her sister have their relationship established. It might be dysfunctional, but it seems to work for them. You can tell the sil how you feel for her interference and her jumping to conclusions about your parenting skills, but the hollow at best apology you get won't make you feel any better.
The apology I would say is secondary to her admitting/realizing she was completely wrong; which I really don't think she realizes. How long can one let the BS slide before something is said? The only other thing to do would be to completely avoid her, but then that causes tension in the family.
 
%26%2339%3B timestamp='1312134089' post='13378501']

Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
This is what the kid is hearing "We'll pay for your school if you live at home so we can micro-manage your studying because we think you are too irresponsible and lazy to do it on your own. You'll just be lazy and get kicked out of school if you move away."
If every parent of a lazy 18-year-old said this to their kid, the world would be a better place.
No, this is what parents do today and a big part of the reason kids are so irresponsible.
Wait, so paying for his school 5 hours away when he has never demonstrated any academic motivation/responsibility in the past would make him MORE responsible? Interesting...ETA: I don't know that it's terribly unreasonable to suggest that if you're using *my* money to go to school, you play by my rules...

 
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Tell your SIL what she said really hurt your feelings. If she still doesn't apologize then start sobbing. I guarantee she will be nicer to you after this exchange.

 
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IMO, an apology that's given in response to a demand for one is worthless. And it's not like your SIL is going to change if you confront her.

I'd watch a ball game and have a few beers.
Options 3. Blow her off. Have as little to nothing to do with her as possible. She'll notice, but may not care. This is what most men would do, but I think it's the easiest way out but the least healthy.
Both of these posts resembles the way I feel, but I'm more worried about the wife and me having a problem with her one and only sister.
Your wife can probably handle herself or you wouldn't have married her. Your caring is understandable, but it's her family. If it's your relationship with your in-laws you care about, address it head-on and tell your wife it's your family too.

 
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%26%2339%3B timestamp='1312134089' post='13378501']

Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
This is what the kid is hearing "We'll pay for your school if you live at home so we can micro-manage your studying because we think you are too irresponsible and lazy to do it on your own. You'll just be lazy and get kicked out of school if you move away."
If every parent of a lazy 18-year-old said this to their kid, the world would be a better place.
No, this is what parents do today and a big part of the reason kids are so irresponsible.
Wait, so paying for his school 5 hours away when he has never demonstrated any academic motivation/responsibility in the past would make him MORE responsible? Interesting...ETA: I don't know that it's terribly unreasonable to suggest that if you're using *my* money to go to school, you play by my rules...
Curious, has this been the theme throughout HS or has it been more "we'll take care of everything and ask you to try with school?" I just wonder if instead of making him demonstrate his worthiness by attending a local school, it might make more sense to let him fail on his own dime?

 
A little background, the wife and I have 3 other kids. We make decent money, but are by no means rich. Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school. He didn't want to hear that, words flew, he left.
I keep thinking about this. While you probably don't mean it as I'm inferring, this is a problem IMO. He hasn't shown any motivation to you yet, and he most likely won't if you continue to treat him like you have been, but it's not whether he's "worthy". It's whether he's ready to try to be an adult. IMO there comes a point when you show him the door, tell him you'll be happy to have him over for dinner and meet up with him whenever you can, but he's an adult. He'll either prove his worthiness for his own sake or he won't. But, my oldest is 8, so I'm mostly talking out of my ### with theory.

 
My mother has five sisters. Their seems to always be a rift amongst someone or another and reason has never been a solution. Reason in a specific incident tends to fail because the irrational action is usually payback for something else. A way-oversimplification but this is what it boils.

 
What's the shark move here? Should I have done or do anything differently?
I would have confronted the SIL. "You might be able to get away with that kind of crap with your sister, but not with me. You owe her an apology for your behavior."
Not to mention the SIL insulted HIM and his parenting. I wouldn't tell anyone to do this but I probably would have talked to the SIL."1. don't ever call into doubt our parenting again.2. You owe BOTH of us an apology. Your sister might be willing to let it go but I don't like being treated like that."
 
%26%2339%3B timestamp='1312134089' post='13378501']

Basically, my son wants the wife and I to send him to a state school that's about 5 hours away from home. But we both think he should commute to another state school that's 20 minute away for the first year to prove his worthiness due to his lack of effort in high school.
I don't like this thinking since you're already telling him you think he'll fail on his own.
That's not what he's saying at all.
This is what the kid is hearing "We'll pay for your school if you live at home so we can micro-manage your studying because we think you are too irresponsible and lazy to do it on your own. You'll just be lazy and get kicked out of school if you move away."
If every parent of a lazy 18-year-old said this to their kid, the world would be a better place.
No, this is what parents do today and a big part of the reason kids are so irresponsible.
Wait, so paying for his school 5 hours away when he has never demonstrated any academic motivation/responsibility in the past would make him MORE responsible? Interesting...ETA: I don't know that it's terribly unreasonable to suggest that if you're using *my* money to go to school, you play by my rules...
The issue of paying for it or not is a different story, but the main thing IMO is the constant hand-holding by parents and not letting their kids fail on their own. If the kid lives at home he won't change at all and it will be like an extended high school with his parents always on his back. He will continue to bring home grades just good enough to prevent his parents from kicking him out.What I would do is pay to send the kid to the college he wants but give him one year to do well. If he doesn't then he's cut off and on his own.

 
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What I would do is pay to send the kid to the college he wants but give him one year to do well. If he doesn't then he's cut off and on his own.
Why send him to school at all? Nothing like a ####ty, go-nowhere job to create a little motivation.
Problem with that is it may take him a long time to realize this. My brother really regrets not finishing college. He's 37 now and had a decent job but the company closed up. He's been working in a high-end wine and liquor shop for the last 8 months. He has very little options for a good career right now. And he's smart and has become a hard worker since his failures in his early 20's.
 
What's the shark move here? Should I have done or do anything differently?
I would have confronted the SIL. "You might be able to get away with that kind of crap with your sister, but not with me. You owe her an apology for your behavior."
Not to mention the SIL insulted HIM and his parenting. I wouldn't tell anyone to do this but I probably would have talked to the SIL."1. don't ever call into doubt our parenting again.2. You owe BOTH of us an apology. Your sister might be willing to let it go but I don't like being treated like that."
These guys have the correct answer, IMO. :goodposting:
 
What I would do is pay to send the kid to the college he wants but give him one year to do well. If he doesn't then he's cut off and on his own.
Why send him to school at all? Nothing like a ####ty, go-nowhere job to create a little motivation.
Problem with that is it may take him a long time to realize this. My brother really regrets not finishing college. He's 37 now and had a decent job but the company closed up. He's been working in a high-end wine and liquor shop for the last 8 months. He has very little options for a good career right now. And he's smart and has become a hard worker since his failures in his early 20's.
Just because he goes doesn't mean he'll finish. Plenty of people drop out.
 

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