What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Feinstein complains about CIA spying on Senate (1 Viewer)

The probe was launched in 2009, nearly three years after the CIA’s network of secret overseas prisons had been emptied, with the detainees seen as most valuable — and subjected to some of the harshest interrogation measures — transferred to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The investigation grew out of a smaller, earlier arrangement in which the CIA agreed to give committee aides access to some of the records of the interrogation program, partly to placate members outraged by the revelation that CIA officers had destroyed videotapes of some of those early sessions.

Staff members who reviewed those files discovered that “the interrogations and the conditions of confinement at the CIA detention sites were far different and far more harsh than the way the CIA had described them to us,” Feinstein said.

At the time, President Obama was newly sworn in and had made dismantling the program one of his first acts in office. His characterization of the program as torture had angered many in the George W. Bush administration and CIA veterans, sparking an intense public debate.

Feinstein, who had recently become chairman of the committee, envisioned the investigation as a way to answer one of the most contentious questions: whether harsh interrogation measures, including the simulated-drowning technique known as waterboarding, worked.

In March 2009, the committee voted 14 to 1 to open its formal probe. Only Sen. Saxby Chambliss (Ga.), who later became the ranking Republican on the panel, voted against it.

The committee wanted the CIA to turn over all of its documents relating to the program. But Panetta, newly installed as agency chief, proposed an alternative: putting the files on computers at a secret CIA facility miles from agency headquarters, where committee investigators could scour the documents.

The digital pile was unwieldy, with no index or structure. Investigators organized their searches around names of CIA prisoners, scanning for any references to Khalid Sheik Mohammed and others who had been held at the secret CIA sites.

Bipartisan backing for the probe unraveled when it became clear that CIA operatives, who also faced a Justice Department criminal inquiry, were not going to cooperate.

“I thought the investigation would be totally lacking” without the ability to interview CIA employees involved in the program, said former senator Christopher “Kit” Bond (Mo.), who was the ranking Republican. He and other GOP members backed out. Republicans also voiced concern that the report would be shaped by political interests.

The partisan split extended through the staff ranks. Republican aides who had been reviewing documents alongside their Democratic counterparts were soon kept out of the document facility by a newly installed security keypad on the door, officials said. They were later given access in a separate room so they could keep reviewing the raw files and possibly submit dissenting views on the final report.

Suspicion between the CIA and the Democratic staff also grew. Feinstein said investigators noticed that hundreds of documents had been removed from the database in 2010 with no explanation, possibly reeled back by agency officials worried that they could expose the names of sources and methods too sensitive to be disclosed.

The White House was called in to settle the dispute. But Feinstein cited that episode as one reason the committee later took printed copies of the Panetta review without notifying the agency, in apparent violation of the two sides’ arranged rules.

Precisely how the committee obtained that document remains unclear. Feinstein said it was found on the shared database using a search tool provided by the agency. “The committee staff did not hack into CIA computers to obtain these documents,” she said.

The CIA has declined to comment on the matter, but Brennan has struck a pose of confidence that an FBI investigation will uncover evidence that the committee’s actions were not as benign as Feinstein claimed.

U.S. officials said the network set up under Panetta included three distinct areas, each sealed off by a firewall — one accessible only to the committee, one exclusively for the CIA, and a shared space in the center where the agency could put records it wanted to share.

“The firewall was breached,” said a U.S. official briefed on the matter. “They figured out a work-around.”

If true, that would represent an embarrassing lapse in security in the computer system assembled by the agency. But, to agency officials, such a breach and a concern about getting caught would explain why the committee last year began asking for documents it already had.

Committee officials flatly deny that the files were obtained through surreptitious means.

The dispute has exposed a thicket of potential conflicts. Among them is the fact that the CIA’s acting general counsel, who Feinstein said is named in the report more than 1,600 times, made the criminal referral about committee staff to the Justice Department.

The fallout has also focused attention on Feinstein and Brennan, revealing a deep rupture between two of the most powerful figures in the U.S. intelligence community that has the potential to spill into other areas where spy agencies rely on Feinstein as an ally.

Feinstein has been among the most ardent backers of the CIA’s drone campaign, for example, citing a deep confidence in the information that she and her staff have gleaned from frequent and detailed briefings provided by the same agency she has now accused of a pattern of misconduct and deception.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/public-feud-between-cia-senate-panel-follows-years-of-tension-over-interrogation-report/2014/03/12/f0633d1c-aa1d-11e3-b61e-8051b8b52d06_story.html

 
White House withholds thousands of documents from Senate CIA probe, despite vows of help

By Jonathan S. Landay, Ali Watkins and Marisa Taylor

McClatchy Washington BureauMarch 12, 2014



WASHINGTON — The White House has been withholding for five years more than 9,000 top-secret documents sought by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for its investigation into the now-defunct CIA detention and interrogation program, even though President Barack Obama hasn’t exercised a claim of executive privilege.

In contrast to public assertions that it supports the committee’s work, the White House has ignored or rejected offers in multiple meetings and in letters to find ways for the committee to review the records, a McClatchy investigation has found.

The significance of the materials couldn’t be learned. But the administration’s refusal to turn them over or to agree to any compromise raises questions about what they would reveal about the CIA’s use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques on suspected terrorists in secret overseas prisons.

The dispute indicates that the White House is more involved than it has acknowledged in the unprecedented power struggle between the committee and the CIA, which has triggered charges that the agency searched the panel’s computers without authorization and has led to requests to the Justice Department for criminal investigations of CIA personnel and Senate aides.

“These documents certainly raise the specter that the White House has been involved in stonewalling the investigation,” said Elizabeth Goitein, the co-director of the Brennan Center for Justice’s Liberty and National Security Program at the New York University Law School.

The committee and the CIA declined to comment.

In a statement to McClatchy, the White House confirmed that “a small percentage” of the 6.2 million pages of documents provided to the committee were “set aside because they raise executive branch confidentiality interests.”

The White House also said that it had worked closely with the committee “to ensure access to the information necessary to review the CIA’s former program.”

Speaking to reporters earlier during a White House event, Obama said that the administration has worked with the committee to ensure that its study is “well informed” and that he was committed to seeing the report declassified once a final version is completed. He said it wouldn’t be proper for him to comment directly on the battle between the CIA and the committee, except to say that CIA Director John Brennan had referred the issues to the “appropriate authorities and they are looking into it.”

The Democrat-controlled committee has largely kept silent about the tussle with the White House, even as some members have decried what they contend has been the CIA’s refusal to surrender key materials on the agency’s use under the Bush administration of interrogation methods denounced by the panel chairwoman as “un-American” and “brutal.”

The chairwoman, Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, made no mention of the White House documents during a blistering floor speech Tuesday in which she charged that the CIA may have undermined the Constitution and violated the law by searching computers used by her staff to compile the study. Brennan has denied her allegations and the White House has expressed continued confidence in his leadership of the CIA.

In question are some 9,400 documents that came to the committee’s attention in 2009, McClatchy has learned. It’s unclear whether the CIA first gave the committee staff access to the materials before the White House withheld them.

Obama, however, still hasn’t formally decreed that the documents are protected by executive privilege, McClatchy learned. Although the doctrine isn’t mentioned explicitly in the Constitution, the Supreme Court in 1974 recognized a limited power by the White House to withhold certain communications between high officials and close aides who advise and assist them.

The withholding of the documents “may not be a smoking gun” proving White House obstructionism, said Goitein, a former Senate Judiciary Committee legal adviser.

Among the other explanations: The White House might have determined that the documents are not relevant to the inquiry or that they are indeed covered by executive privilege but that the president has not yet been forced to assert the claim, she said.

“The most nefarious explanation is that they are not privileged and the White House simply doesn’t want to hand them over,” Goitein said. “Executive privilege is generally asserted after negotiations and brinksmanship behind the scenes. People put on paper what they want to be formalized, and these negotiations by their very nature are very informal.”

The committee, the CIA and the White House have held periodic talks on the materials since 2009. Their apparent failure to resolve the standoff prompted Feinstein to write several letters last year to Obama’s chief legal adviser, Kathryn Ruemmler, seeking a resolution, McClatchy has learned.

A White House official, who declined to be further identified as a matter of administration policy, said that Ruemmler responded to Feinstein’s letters, although information obtained by McClatchy indicated that she hadn’t.

It was not known if the materials came up during a visit that Ruemmler and White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough paid to Feinstein and the committee’s vice chairman, Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., on Tuesday after Feinstein delivered her speech.

To date, the most explicit public reference to documents being withheld by the White House appears to have been made last August by Sen. Mark Udall, D-Colo., an Intelligence Committee member who has led calls for a full disclosure of the CIA interrogation program.

In written questions that he submitted for the confirmation process of former CIA General Counsel Stephen W. Preston to be the Pentagon’s top lawyer, Udall asked Preston what role he’d played in an agency decision to withdraw documents that initially had been provided to the committee staff.

“During the CIA’s document production of more than six million pages of records, the CIA removed several thousand CIA documents that the CIA believed could be subject to executive privilege claims by the president,” Udall wrote. “While the documents represent an admittedly small percentage of the total number of records produced, the documents – deemed responsive – have nonetheless not been provided to the committee.”

Preston responded that “a small percentage of the total number of documents was set aside for further review. The agency (CIA) has deferred to the White House and has not been substantially involved in subsequent discussions about the disposition of those documents.”

In a related episode in 2010 as described by Feinstein in her speech on Tuesday, the committee staff discovered that it was no longer able to access hundreds of documents that it previously had been able to read.

“This was done without the knowledge or approval of committee members or staff and in violation of our written agreements,” she said.

CIA personnel initially accused computer technicians of removing the documents and then asserted that they were pulled on the White House’s orders, Feinstein said. The White House denied issuing such orders, she said, and “the matter was resolved” with renewed administration and CIA pledges that there would be no further intrusions into the staff’s database.

Feinstein, however, did not say what happened to the documents.

The records being held by the White House are separate from materials generated by an internal CIA review of some 6.2 million pages of operational cables, emails and other top-secret documents made accessible to committee staff in a secret CIA electronic reading room in Northern Virginia. The committee approved a final draft of the $40 million, 6,300-page study in December 2012.

In his first significant comments on the scandal, Chambliss took to the Senate floor late Wednesday afternoon to launch an apparent counterattack on Feinstein’s speech.

“Although people speak as though we know all the pertinent facts surrounding this matter, the truth is, we do not,” said Chambliss, who pointed out that the committee’s Republican staff didn’t participate in investigating the detention and interrogation program.

“We do not have the actual facts concerning the CIA’s alleged actions or all of the specific details about the actions by the committee staff regarding the draft of what is now referred to as the Panetta internal document,” Chambliss said. “Both parties have made allegations against one another, and even speculated (on) each other’s actions, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions that must be addressed.”

“No forensics have been run on the CIA computers . . . at the CIA facility to know what actually happened either regarding the alleged CIA search or the circumstances under which the committee came into possession of the Panetta internal review document.”

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/12/221033/despite-vows-of-help-white-house.html

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you read between the lines here does it now mean we have a divided Senate Intelligence Committee with the Dems on one side and the Repubs the other?

This has to be a united committee if we ever want to get any answers and is very troubling for the future if it continues.

 
If you read between the lines here does it now mean we have a divided Senate Intelligence Committee with the Dems on one side and the Repubs the other?

This has to be a united committee if we ever want to get any answers and is very troubling for the future if it continues.
They don't care....and if they do, they'll be told not to care and move on as if nothing ever happened.

 
If you read between the lines here does it now mean we have a divided Senate Intelligence Committee with the Dems on one side and the Repubs the other?

This has to be a united committee if we ever want to get any answers and is very troubling for the future if it continues.
It means the Democrats on the committee are on one side and the CIA is on the other side. I've only heard one Republican comment, and I think that was Graham who wanted an independent investigation. By the Justice Department, if I remember correctly. Not sure how independent that would be.

Earlier (before this blowup) in the investigation I believe there was one Republican who wanted the investigation slowed down or stopped because they wouldn't be able to interview CIA people.

Odd situation really You'd think there would be bipartisan objection from the committee to the CIA giving them documents then taking them back without saying so. Twice. I guess the Republicans are choosing between saying Feinstein's the problem (easy target, lets CIA off hook) or the CIA's the problem (making Obama the target indirectly). Hopefully it's the latter since this seems like a branch-vs.-branch government issue of some importance.

 
If you read between the lines here does it now mean we have a divided Senate Intelligence Committee with the Dems on one side and the Repubs the other?

This has to be a united committee if we ever want to get any answers and is very troubling for the future if it continues.
It means the Democrats on the committee are on one side and the CIA is on the other side. I've only heard one Republican comment, and I think that was Graham who wanted an independent investigation. By the Justice Department, if I remember correctly. Not sure how independent that would be.
From the article I posted above.Chambliss seems to be in the dark and isn't happy about it.

In his first significant comments on the scandal, Chambliss took to the Senate floor late Wednesday afternoon to launch an apparent counterattack on Feinstein’s speech.

“Although people speak as though we know all the pertinent facts surrounding this matter, the truth is, we do not,” said Chambliss, who pointed out that the committee’s Republican staff didn’t participate in investigating the detention and interrogation program.
 
If you read between the lines here does it now mean we have a divided Senate Intelligence Committee with the Dems on one side and the Repubs the other?

This has to be a united committee if we ever want to get any answers and is very troubling for the future if it continues.
It means the Democrats on the committee are on one side and the CIA is on the other side. I've only heard one Republican comment, and I think that was Graham who wanted an independent investigation. By the Justice Department, if I remember correctly. Not sure how independent that would be.
From the article I posted above.Chambliss seems to be in the dark and isn't happy about it.

In his first significant comments on the scandal, Chambliss took to the Senate floor late Wednesday afternoon to launch an apparent counterattack on Feinstein’s speech.

“Although people speak as though we know all the pertinent facts surrounding this matter, the truth is, we do not,” said Chambliss, who pointed out that the committee’s Republican staff didn’t participate in investigating the detention and interrogation program.
He was against the probe ever being started. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/public-feud-between-cia-senate-panel-follows-years-of-tension-over-interrogation-report/2014/03/12/f0633d1c-aa1d-11e3-b61e-8051b8b52d06_story.html

In March 2009, the committee voted 14 to 1 to open its formal probe. Only Sen. Saxby Chambliss (Ga.), who later became the ranking Republican on the panel, voted against it.
Bond was the guy who said the probe would be worthless. Republicans backed out of the probe. So they're voluntarily "in the dark".

Bipartisan backing for the probe unraveled when it became clear that CIA operatives, who also faced a Justice Department criminal inquiry, were not going to cooperate. “I thought the investigation would be totally lacking” without the ability to interview CIA employees involved in the program, said former senator Christopher “Kit” Bond (Mo.), who was the ranking Republican. He and other GOP members backed out.
Now Chambliss wants the Dept of Justice to investigate.

He said forensics have not been run on computers to determine precisely what happened and that no one has established precisely how the committee ended up with an internal policy review. The retiring Georgia Republican preached patience and said that ultimately an independent review may be necessary, echoing suggestions by some of his Republican colleagues.

“Both of these matters have been now referred to the Department of Justice. It may take us awhile before any accurate factual findings can be reached,” Chambliss said. “It may even call for some special investigator to be named to review the entire factual situation. Eventually, we will get to the bottom of this. But today I cannot make a statement that will reflect what actually occurred.”

Chambliss said he “reluctantly” took the Senate floor Wednesday evening to urge that the intelligence committee’s internal dealings remain within the committee. He also disassociated the committee’s GOP members from the interrogation report that the panel has been working on for years and may vote to declassify by the end of March.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/cia-saxby-chambliss-dianne-feinstein-104601.html

So for whatever reason (possibly because the probe was begun to investigate things done under a Republican president) Chambliss has been against the probe since 2009, and now wants the executive branch to handle it instead of the committee he's on in the legislative branch. I haven't heard any Republicans differing on that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the Senate Intelligence Committee has nothing to hide, why do they object to being monitored by the CIA?
It's been years since I'd heard anyone try to push this one through! :lmao:
Years? It was just a few months ago that Senator Lindsey Graham said this:

"Im a Verizon customer. I dont mind Verizon turning over records to the government if the government is going to make sure that they try to match up a known terrorist phone with somebody in the United States. I dont think youre talking to the terrorists. I know youre not. I know Im not. So we dont have anything to worry about.
I actually meant the justification by implication: "If you've got nothing to hide then why do you care?"
I think he was being sarcastic in that it would be something the Senate would say to a citizen when they pass a similar law to police the populace.

 
I know a lot of people here are going to disagree with me, and I probably shouldn't even post this because it's just going to subject me to abuse but here goes anyhow:

Feinstein is not being a hypocrite here, because what the NSA is doing (purportedly) is far different from what the CIA is doing in this case. The CIA is listening to specific calls without warrant, a clear invasion of privacy. The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants. As I have pointed out several times in the NSA thread, that is not, at least on paper, a violation of privacy, but a necessary tool for national security. There is no contradiction.
The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants.
So if you walk out your front door tomorrow and find your postman reading your mail, and he says 'don't worry, we're just seeing if we should put out a warrant on you and your neighbors but you're clean so far", you're cool with that, right?
No I'm not.

BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!
Sorry not getting this - how's it different?

Any distinction you can make here?

 
I know a lot of people here are going to disagree with me, and I probably shouldn't even post this because it's just going to subject me to abuse but here goes anyhow:

Feinstein is not being a hypocrite here, because what the NSA is doing (purportedly) is far different from what the CIA is doing in this case. The CIA is listening to specific calls without warrant, a clear invasion of privacy. The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants. As I have pointed out several times in the NSA thread, that is not, at least on paper, a violation of privacy, but a necessary tool for national security. There is no contradiction.
The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants.
So if you walk out your front door tomorrow and find your postman reading your mail, and he says 'don't worry, we're just seeing if we should put out a warrant on you and your neighbors but you're clean so far", you're cool with that, right?
No I'm not.

BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!
Sorry not getting this - how's it different?

Any distinction you can make here?
Actually I can, and I have. But almost all of you will disagree with me, and I'll just be called an ####### by Slapdash again, so I'll just keep it to myself.

 
I know a lot of people here are going to disagree with me, and I probably shouldn't even post this because it's just going to subject me to abuse but here goes anyhow:

Feinstein is not being a hypocrite here, because what the NSA is doing (purportedly) is far different from what the CIA is doing in this case. The CIA is listening to specific calls without warrant, a clear invasion of privacy. The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants. As I have pointed out several times in the NSA thread, that is not, at least on paper, a violation of privacy, but a necessary tool for national security. There is no contradiction.
The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants.
So if you walk out your front door tomorrow and find your postman reading your mail, and he says 'don't worry, we're just seeing if we should put out a warrant on you and your neighbors but you're clean so far", you're cool with that, right?
No I'm not.

BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!
Sorry not getting this - how's it different?

Any distinction you can make here?
Actually I can, and I have. But almost all of you will disagree with me, and I'll just be called an ####### by Slapdash again, so I'll just keep it to myself.
You should do that anytime you're thinking about posting. In any thread. And then don't post to tell us you're going to keep it to yourself. Just keep it to yourself. If you do all of the above I guarantee Slapdash won't ever call you a ######## ever again.

 
Thank g

I know a lot of people here are going to disagree with me, and I probably shouldn't even post this because it's just going to subject me to abuse but here goes anyhow:

Feinstein is not being a hypocrite here, because what the NSA is doing (purportedly) is far different from what the CIA is doing in this case. The CIA is listening to specific calls without warrant, a clear invasion of privacy. The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants. As I have pointed out several times in the NSA thread, that is not, at least on paper, a violation of privacy, but a necessary tool for national security. There is no contradiction.
The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants.
So if you walk out your front door tomorrow and find your postman reading your mail, and he says 'don't worry, we're just seeing if we should put out a warrant on you and your neighbors but you're clean so far", you're cool with that, right?
No I'm not.BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!
Sorry not getting this - how's it different?

Any distinction you can make here?
Actually I can, and I have. But almost all of you will disagree with me, and I'll just be called an ####### by Slapdash again, so I'll just keep it to myself.
Thank god, please actually do this time instead of your usual "I know I said I was done, but I HAVE to respond to this" shtick

 
timschochet said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I know a lot of people here are going to disagree with me, and I probably shouldn't even post this because it's just going to subject me to abuse but here goes anyhow:

Feinstein is not being a hypocrite here, because what the NSA is doing (purportedly) is far different from what the CIA is doing in this case. The CIA is listening to specific calls without warrant, a clear invasion of privacy. The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants. As I have pointed out several times in the NSA thread, that is not, at least on paper, a violation of privacy, but a necessary tool for national security. There is no contradiction.
The NSA is collecting mass data for the purpose of running algorithms, for which they are obtaining collective warrants.
So if you walk out your front door tomorrow and find your postman reading your mail, and he says 'don't worry, we're just seeing if we should put out a warrant on you and your neighbors but you're clean so far", you're cool with that, right?
No I'm not.

BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!
Sorry not getting this - how's it different?

Any distinction you can make here?
Actually I can, and I have. But almost all of you will disagree with me, and I'll just be called an ####### by Slapdash again, so I'll just keep it to myself.
Pretty odd response.

Actually the government has more of a right (none exists at all really but if you're going to argue for it) in the case of the US Mail because at least there the feds are charged with holding, delivering and controlling our mail. The postman could take notes on the sender, the addressee, the date, the size, and maybe even briefly open it or perhaps use technology (say even a simple steamer the way the KGB and Stassi used to) to reveal the basic subject matter of the correspondence. All of that is equivalent to metadata. When done, they could hand your mail to you.

At least in that situation they are supposed to be handling your mail. In the case of the internet it's supposed to be private servers with whom the users have privacy statements which are contracts, legal guarantees based on those contracts and the constitutional need for warrants to third parties and many other safeguards.

Using your logic yes the government should be reading our actual posted US Mail. That's never been acceptable and there's less of a reason for reading email and other electronic documents. If there's a real difference to you it's that there isn't some uniformed officer standing physically near you doing it, or say in your vicinity but rather some bureaucratic flunky under a mountain in the MST time zone without your ever knowing it. If that's the case then you're just kidding yourself (maybe we all are).

 
CIA and White House under pressure after Senate torture report leaks

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/11/cia-white-house-pressure-leaked-senate-report/print

A leak of the major findings of a landmark Senate inquiry into the CIA’s post-9/11 torture of terrorism detainees led, on Friday, to intensified pressure on the White House and the CIA to release the inquiry speedily and with a minimum of redactions.

The classified study, prepared by the Senate select committee on intelligence, concluded that the CIA’s interrogations, secret detentions and outsourced torture sessions were “brutal, and far worse than the agency communicated to policymakers.”

More suspected terrorists underwent the agency’s post-9/11 treatment, which largely lasted from 2002 to 2006, than the CIA has publicly admitted, according to the report’s findings, which were first reported by McClatchy. Last week, committee chairwoman Dianne Feinstein of California stated that the Senate investigated the cases of 100 detainees – dozens more than previously known to have gone through the CIA’s so-called “interrogation, detention and rendition” programs.

In addition to misleading policymakers, the Senate report charges the CIA with selectively and leaking classified and inaccurate information to journalists in order to portray the program in a positive light.

“The CIA manipulated the media by co-ordinating the leak of classified information, which inaccurately portrayed the effectiveness of the agency’s enhanced interrogation techniques,” the committee found.

The agency also, according to the report, provided factually inaccurate information to Bush administration lawyers, who relied on it to concoct the legal theories that underpinned an apparatus of torturous interrogations and detentions that quickly spread to US military facilities at Guantánamo Bay, Iraq and Afghanistan.

The study took four years and $40m to complete, and has brought the relationship between the CIA and the Senate panel overseeing it to perhaps its lowest ebb in history.

Not only does Langley contend that the committee has developed a factually inaccurate picture of the since-shuttered program, it has appealed to the Justice Department to open a criminal inquiry into Senate staffers for taking a classified agency document out of a secured facility – a move Feinstein has called an attempt at intimidation.

In March, on the Senate floor, Feinstein accused the CIA of breaching a network barrier on a system it set up to allow the agency to share documents with the committee electronically. She said the move meant the agency spied on the Senate staff, which she said violated the separation of powers outlined in the constitution.

Despite the acrimony, the White House announced last week that the CIA will lead the executive-branch panel that will recommend how much of the Senate report’s executive summary, findings and recommendations to make public, a decision blasted by human-rights groups and intelligence scholars as a conflict of interest.

On Thursday, 40 Democratic members of the House of Representatives wrote to President Obama urging him to declassify the committee’s executive summary and major findings “expeditiously and in their entirety.”

“The American people need and deserve a full account of the actions that were taken in their name through the use of torture and enhanced interrogations on detainees. As you have said publicly, the report must be declassified “so that the American people can understand what happened in the past’,” the legislators wrote.

After the committee voted last week to authorize declassification of aspects of its report, Feinstein challenged the administration to release the executive summary, findings and recommendations with minimal redactions and within 30 days. She said that the committee could hold a subsequent vote on declassifying the entire 6,000-plus page study, which some observers understood as a tactic to give the committee leverage in case the CIA’s redactions of the current portions up for review are extensive.

“Some ... do not want this report to become public and are seeking to discredit it,” Feinstein wrote on Thursday in the Washington Post, along with former committee chairman Jay Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat.

According to the leaked conclusions, the committee found that that the agency poorly managed its interrogation and detention efforts. It relied extensively on outside contractors for design and implementation, especially “two contract psychologists,” whom an earlier Senate Armed Services Committee investigation identified as Bruce Jessen and Jim Mitchell. Both men were influential in retrofitting techniques that had been designed to train captured US troops to survive and resist torture by foreign adversaries for use on detainees.

“Numerous internal critiques and objections concerning the CIA’s management and use of the Detention and Interrogation [sic] were ignored,” according to the committee findings. Those internal critiques include a now partially declassified 2004 inspector general’s report.

Human rights groups cited the leaked conclusions to pressure the administration to fully declassify the Senate report’s major aspects – and to take responsibility for its release out of the CIA’s hands.

"The legal foundation for this program was always broken, but this also shows that it was resting on thin air. These conclusions only reinforce that torture is a brutal, unlawful practice that is unnecessary for protecting our national security,” said former navy general counsel Alberto Mora in a statement released by Human Rights First.

“It’s important to have as much of the report made public as possible to put these findings in context. The White House should lead the declassification process and ensure that the American people can understand the true costs of our experiment with torture.”

In a letter he sent to President Obama on Friday, Senator Mark Udall, a Democrat from Colorado, wrote, "[T]he most pressing reason for the White House to step in and manage this process is the CIA's clear conflict of interest on this issue and its demonstrated inability to face the truth about this program. … The CIA is certainly entitled to issue a public response to the Committee's study, but not to impede the declassification of the study itself."
 
C.I.A. Admits Penetrating Senate Intelligence Computers

An internal investigation by the Central Intelligence Agency has found that its officers improperly penetrated a computer network used by the Senate Intelligence Committee in preparing its report on the C.I.A.'s detention and interrogation program.

In a statement issued Thursday morning, a C.I.A. spokesman said that agency’s inspector general had concluded that C.I.A. officers had acted inappropriately by gaining access to the computers.

The statement said that John O. Brennan, the C.I.A. director, had apologized to the two senior members of the Senate Intelligence Committee and that he would set up an internal accountability board to review the matter.
When the C.I.A.'s monitoring of the committee became public in March, Mr. Brennan said, “When the facts come out on this, I think a lot of people who are claiming that there has been this tremendous sort of spying and monitoring and hacking will be proved wrong.”
:lmao:

 
C.I.A. Admits Penetrating Senate Intelligence Computers

An internal investigation by the Central Intelligence Agency has found that its officers improperly penetrated a computer network used by the Senate Intelligence Committee in preparing its report on the C.I.A.'s detention and interrogation program.

In a statement issued Thursday morning, a C.I.A. spokesman said that agency’s inspector general had concluded that C.I.A. officers had acted inappropriately by gaining access to the computers.

The statement said that John O. Brennan, the C.I.A. director, had apologized to the two senior members of the Senate Intelligence Committee and that he would set up an internal accountability board to review the matter.
When the C.I.A.'s monitoring of the committee became public in March, Mr. Brennan said, “When the facts come out on this, I think a lot of people who are claiming that there has been this tremendous sort of spying and monitoring and hacking will be proved wrong.”
:lmao:
But what does it matter? The govt. has come to realize that there isn't anything anyone can do if they don't follow the law. I'm not going to say it started with him but it's appalling at how much Obama has literally ignored, or even changed, the law as he sees fit. So get used to it. This is the new U.S..

 
I'm curious to know who told the CIA to go after these computers?You don't just hack in these by "accident".
The CIA.
Who gave the direct order is my question?
Col. Jessup would be my guess.
It's almost like these agencies(CIA,FBI,NSA etc) have become a 4th branch of government with nobody to really answer to.Brennan has no idea who is doing what so how can he accurately report to Congress?

Heads need to roll for this IMO

 
I'm curious to know who told the CIA to go after these computers?You don't just hack in these by "accident".
The CIA.
Who gave the direct order is my question?
We will likely never know. I would guess it came from some section chief. Brennan knows better and I don't think he'd order it but who knows? The problem with secret agencies is that they operate with little true oversight. And the guys who really run them aren't the guys we know. It's the career guys who aren't elected officials. They are there no matter who is president.

 
The C.I.A.’s Reckless Breach of Trust

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD


In March, John Brennan, the C.I.A. director, was indignant when Senator Dianne Feinstein charged that the agency had broken into computers used by staff investigators from the Senate Intelligence Committee, which she leads. “As far as the allegations of C.I.A. hacking into Senate computers,” he said, “nothing could be further from the truth. I mean, we wouldn’t do that. I mean, that’s just beyond the scope of reason.”
But reason seems to have little to do with the C.I.A.’s operations, as Mr. Brennan apparently discovered far too late. On Thursday, the Central Intelligence Agency admitted that it did, indeed, use a fake online identity to break into the Senate’s computers, where documents connected to a secret report on the agency’s detention and torture program were being stored. Mr. Brennan apologized privately to Ms. Feinstein and to Senator Saxby Chambliss, the vice chairman of the intelligence committee, and promised to set up an accountability board to determine who did the hacking and whether and how they should be punished.

The accountability and the apologies, however, will have to go much further. It’s not just two senators that the C.I.A. has offended by this shocking action. It is all of Congress and, by extension, the American public, which is paying for an intelligence agency that does not seem to understand the most fundamental concept of separation of powers. That concept means that Congress is supposed to oversee the intelligence community and rein in its excesses. It cannot possibly do so effectively if it is being spied on by the spy agency, which is supposed to be directing its efforts against foreign terrorists and other threats to national security.

The committee has been working since 2009 on a comprehensive history of the agency’s antiterror program during the George W. Bush administration, which involved illegal rendition to other countries, detention, and torture of suspects, all producing little useful intelligence. It has been frustrated at many points by stonewalling from the agency, which provided misleading information, hid important facts inside a blizzard of excess documents, and forced endless delays in the declassification process. The 6,300-page report still has not been made public, though parts of it may be released later this month, and it is expected to undercut the Bush administration’s claims that its actions were both legal and effective.

Late last year, the agency suspected that Senate investigators had obtained an internal C.I.A. review of the torture program. Senate officials said the review was in a database they were allowed to see, but realized that the C.I.A. had broken into a private Senate computer server and found the review. A summary of an agency inspector general’s report, released Thursday, said C.I.A. hackers even read the emails of Senate staffers. Then they exhibited a “lack of candor” to agency investigators.

In an extraordinary speech on the Senate floor in March, Ms. Feinstein accused the agency of having “undermined the constitutional framework essential to effective congressional oversight of intelligence activities or any other government function.” The institutional affront even drew Republican criticism. If the charge was true, said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, “heads should roll, and people should go to jail.”

One of those heads may need to be Mr. Brennan’s. If he knew about the break-in, then he blatantly lied. If he did not, then apparently he was unaware of the lawless culture that has festered within the C.I.A. since the moment it was encouraged by George W. Bush and **** Cheney to torture suspects and then lie about it. That recklessness extended to the point where agency officials thought nothing of burglarizing their own overseer. Senator Mark Udall of Colorado said the action was illegal and required the resignation of Mr. Brennan.

The C.I.A. needs far more than a few quiet personnel changes, however. Its very core, and basic culture, needs a thorough overhaul.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/01/opinion/The-CIAs-Reckless-Breach-of-Trust.html?_r=0
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gee if only the Congress and Senate were as offended over the abuses that lead to ordinary citizens being monitored. Yeah the CIA is wrong and heads should roll but these hypocrites have no moral high ground to stand on.

 
I'm curious to know who told the CIA to go after these computers?You don't just hack in these by "accident".
The CIA.
Who gave the direct order is my question?
Col. Jessup would be my guess.
It's almost like these agencies(CIA,FBI,NSA etc) have become a 4th branch of government with nobody to really answer to.Brennan has no idea who is doing what so how can he accurately report to Congress?

Heads need to roll for this IMO
If the heads of the NSA and CIA are going to flat out lie to their bosses, what can you really do about it?

 
The Justice Department is investigating the CIA’s actions, but Feinstein said that the CIA had stated at one point that “the removal of the documents was ordered by the White House.” The White House denied the claim. That would be a good matter for a special prosecutor to examine.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-allegations-of-cia-spying-on-the-senate-deserve-investigation/2014/03/11/96105150-a95b-11e3-8d62-419db477a0e6_story.html
Figured I would bump this once again since I had asked the question about who gave the orders.

 
I'm curious to know who told the CIA to go after these computers?You don't just hack in these by "accident".
The CIA.
Who gave the direct order is my question?
Col. Jessup would be my guess.
It's almost like these agencies(CIA,FBI,NSA etc) have become a 4th branch of government with nobody to really answer to.Brennan has no idea who is doing what so how can he accurately report to Congress?

Heads need to roll for this IMO
If the heads of the NSA and CIA are going to flat out lie to their bosses, what can you really do about it?
I guess the better question is once you have found them out to be lying and nothing is being done about it what next?

 
The Justice Department is investigating the CIA’s actions, but Feinstein said that the CIA had stated at one point that “the removal of the documents was ordered by the White House.” The White House denied the claim. That would be a good matter for a special prosecutor to examine.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-allegations-of-cia-spying-on-the-senate-deserve-investigation/2014/03/11/96105150-a95b-11e3-8d62-419db477a0e6_story.html
Figured I would bump this once again since I had asked the question about who gave the orders.
For all the things I dislike about Obama, and there are many, I don't think he is this stupid. If this is traced to the Oval it is as big as Watergate and would be an impeachable offense IMO.

 
I'm curious to know who told the CIA to go after these computers?You don't just hack in these by "accident".
The CIA.
Who gave the direct order is my question?
Col. Jessup would be my guess.
It's almost like these agencies(CIA,FBI,NSA etc) have become a 4th branch of government with nobody to really answer to.Brennan has no idea who is doing what so how can he accurately report to Congress?Heads need to roll for this IMO
If the heads of the NSA and CIA are going to flat out lie to their bosses, what can you really do about it?
Cut funding. I don't think that will ever happen, but if the CIA/NSA keep pushing the envelope they could go in that direction.

Unfortunately, I can't see change coming from the executive branch anytime soon. I expect things would have to get a lot worse before that happens.

 
The Justice Department is investigating the CIA’s actions, but Feinstein said that the CIA had stated at one point that “the removal of the documents was ordered by the White House.” The White House denied the claim. That would be a good matter for a special prosecutor to examine.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-allegations-of-cia-spying-on-the-senate-deserve-investigation/2014/03/11/96105150-a95b-11e3-8d62-419db477a0e6_story.html
Figured I would bump this once again since I had asked the question about who gave the orders.
For all the things I dislike about Obama, and there are many, I don't think he is this stupid. If this is traced to the Oval it is as big as Watergate and would be an impeachable offense IMO.
I would like this statement made by Feinstein to be followed up on with a special prosecutor to try and get to the bottom of this but I am very skeptical of that happening.She seemed to be content with the apology being enough which seems odd considering how upset she was.

 
Just to correct myself on what Feinstein said and a few others speaking up on this

Update at 1:44 p.m. ET. In Violation Of Separation Of Powers:

In a statement, Feinstein said the CIA Inspector General investigation confirms what she said on the Senate floor in March. The violation of the agreement, Feinstein said, was also "in violation of the constitutional separation of powers."

"Director Brennan apologized for these actions and submitted the IG report to an accountability board," Feinstein added. "These are positive first steps. This IG report corrects the record and it is my understanding that a declassified report will be made available to the public shortly."

Update at 1:29 p.m. ET. An Apology Not Enough:

In a statement, Christopher Anders, the American Civil Liberties Union's senior legislative counsel, said an apology was not enough and that the CIA should refer this matter to the Justice Department.

Anders said:

"It is hard to imagine a greater threat to the Constitution's system of checks and balances than having the CIA spy on the computers used by the very Senate staff carrying out the Senate's constitutional duty of oversight over the executive branch. It was made worse by CIA Director John Brennan's misleading the American people in denying any wrongdoing. These latest developments are only the most recent manifestations of a CIA that seems to believe that it is above and beyond the law. An uncontrolled – and seemingly uncontrollable – CIA threatens the very foundations of our Constitution."



Sen. Mark Udall, who serves on the Intelligence Committee, went further, saying he has lost confidence in Brennan.
"During CIA Director John Brennan's confirmation hearings, he promised to fundamentally change the culture at the CIA and to respect vigorous and independent congressional oversight. His actions and those of CIA officials whom he oversees have proven otherwise," Udall said in a statement. "From the unprecedented hacking of congressional staff computers and continued leaks undermining the Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation of the CIA's detention and interrogation program to his abject failure to acknowledge any wrongdoing by the agency, I have lost confidence in John Brennan."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/07/31/336855226/cia-chief-apologizes-sens-feinstein-chambliss-over-computer-intrusion
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top