Felix Jones vs Steve Slaton (1 Viewer)

[JAA]

I was reviewing the 2008 Scouts Inc. Live Mock Draft and something caught my eye at Dallas's 1st round pick @1.22. This quote:

Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas

What, you're surprised? Despite the obvious Arkansas ties, remember Jones has world-class speed but also has some power too. The Cowboys need a running back and Jones is a nice change-of-pace back to Marion Barber. He also can return kicks, something that Dallas needs as well.

-- Doug Kretz, Scouts Inc.

Of course we have seen most mocks with Jones in the 1st round. What caught my eye was the "world-class speed" comment. Of course I have to compare that to my homer boy Steve Slaton. Looking at NFL Draft Countdown Player Scouting Report, here is Felix Jones write-up: http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...felixjones.html

Felix Jones

Height: 5-101/8 | Weight: 207 | 40-Time: 4.47

Official Bio

Strengths:

Excellent speed and quickness...Explosive with a terrific burst...Elusive in the open field...Good feet...Nice balance and change of direction skills...Great vision...Terrific hands as a receiver and runs good routes...A legit big play threat who can take it the distance...Good production...Team player with good intangibles...There isn't a lot of wear and tear on his body....Versatile and also an outstanding kick returner.

Weaknesses:

Never carried the load in college...Size and bulk are just average...Not very strong or powerful...Doesn't break a lot of tackles or pick up many yards after contact...A sub par blocker...Needs to show more patience...Won't do much damage between the tackles...His upside could be limited to a change of pace role at the next level.

Notes:

Combined with Darren McFadden to form the premier running back tandem in the nation...Earned All-American honors as a kick returner...Finished with the second best career yards per carry average (7.6) in NCAA history behind only Glenn Davis of Army (8.26)...A multi-dimensional weapon...Probably won't ever be a workhorse in the NFL but could excel in a role similar to the one he played with the Hogs....If everything clicks just right he could be a Brian Westbrook-type but he is probably more of a poor-man's Reggie Bush..Looks like a late 1st or early 2nd round talent.

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Career Statistics

Year GP Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds TD

2005 11 99 626 6.3 3 8 100 0

2006 14 154 1,168 7.6 6 15 107 3

2007 13 133 1,162 8.7 11 16 176 0

Totals 38 386 2,956 7.6 20 39 383 3

Here is Slaton's write-up: http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...teveslaton.html

Steve Slaton

Height: 5-91/8 | Weight: 197 | 40-Time: 4.44

Official Bio

Strengths:

Excellent speed and quickness with a burst...Great agility, balance and change of direction...Can get outside and turn the corner...Nice vision and instincts...Elusive and very dangerous in the open field..Has very good hands and can be a weapon out of the backfield...A big play threat...Offers value as a return man....Productive.

Weaknesses:

Doesn't have the size or bulk that you look for...Lacks strength and power...Does not break a lot of tackles...Not much of an inside runner...Marginal blocker...Is not real physical...Very little return experience...Played in a spread offense...May have some minor durability concerns...He might be limited to a situation role in the NFL.

Notes:

Is also being looked at as a wide receiver prospect by some..Shared the spotlight with Pat White and was beginning to lose carries to true freshman Noel Devine in 2007...Didn't have a great junior campaign and saw his stock drop...Will never be a pro workhorse but could carve a niche for himself and excel as a 3rd down back.

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Career Statistics

Year GP Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds TD

2005 10 205 1,128 5.5 17 12 95 2

2006 13 248 1,744 7.0 16 27 360 2

2007 13 211 1,051 5.0 17 26 350 1

Totals 36 664 3,923 5.9 50 65 805 5

First, I dont get the "world-class speed" comment. Slaton was considered to have a slow combine and ran a 4.44 while Jones ran a 4.47 Jones is an inch tallen and 10lbs heavier. Jones didnt have half the college career as Slaton. Why do we always see Jones in the 1st round and Slaton not really a 1st day pick? Specifically, what is it about Jones that makes him so much more valuable?Im not saying Slaton should be drafted ahead of Jones. Im really saying that I am surprised Jones is always taken ahead (over a full round) of Slaton. Considering the stats and careers, wouldnt you think Slaton would be ahead of Jones in at least some of the 546584658765872658734 mock drafts this offseason?

 

[MAC_32]

Short answer: Felix Jones is being severely over valued, he's not in my top 10 RBs. Then again, I don't think Slaton should be drafted, but that's mainly because he clearly lost a step on the field last season. Guys can train to nail an inflated 40 time, you can't fool anyone when it comes to on the field speed though.

 

[Wu-banger]

If I had the option I would much rather draft Slaton late (5th rd??) than take Jone in the 1st.

I think Jones is a better overall back and projects better in the NFL , but not by the difference in value that the projected draft rounds dictate of the two.

 

[switz]

First, I dont get the "world-class speed" comment. Slaton was considered to have a slow combine and ran a 4.44 while Jones ran a 4.47 Jones is an inch tallen and 10lbs heavier. Jones didnt have half the college career as Slaton. Why do we always see Jones in the 1st round and Slaton not really a 1st day pick? Specifically, what is it about Jones that makes him so much more valuable?

Im not saying Slaton should be drafted ahead of Jones. Im really saying that I am surprised Jones is always taken ahead (over a full round) of Slaton. Considering the stats and careers, wouldnt you think Slaton would be ahead of Jones in at least some of the 546584658765872658734 mock drafts this offseason?

To be honest, I think the bios are written but monkeys. It seems like certain phrases get repeated in each, which don't accurately portray players potential.For instance: "Size and bulk are just average.." or "doesn't have the size and bulk you look for...". OK, so what does that mean? Are they saying he's 5 or 25 pounds light? That's a big difference that often gets the same phrase thrown at it. Anyway, that's my issue with these bios... not all of them are bad, but some really do look like phrases pulled form a hat.

On the other hand, I really strongly suggest you watch a couple videos of both players. Jones is much more explosive than Slaton and faster overall. He appears to have better vision and instincts, and despite the knock on not breaking tackles, he has a very good stiff arm, and always falls forward. (He never really had to break tackles, so I find it hard for people to say he can't).

While both players could be the lightning in thunder-n-lightning combos, only Jones has the potential to be an every down back for a team.

BTW, if you are looking for decent draft bios, KFFL writes some nice ones, without the cookie cutter phrasing.

This is not off KFFL but, per Matt Miller of New Era Scouting:

Felix Jones may end up the best running back in this class, and I mean that. He's an excellent runner from the I formation and single back sets. He has the strength to run inside and the speed to turn the corner. He's an accomplished receiver and return man as well.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

i remember seeing some scouting reports prior to the 2007 season that had Slaton as the #1 RB. Things sure changed alot.

 

[EBF]

Slaton has a thin frame and he's not as shifty as Felix. He has less upside and less starting potential. I agree that Felix is probably a little overrated though. He seems more like a guy you draft in the 35-50 range than a guy you draft in the 20-35 range.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm tired of the "obvious Arkansas ties" causing Dallas to reach for Felix. It may yet happen. Dallas has been predictable for a couple years. And they've choked in the first round lately, imo. They need a couple RBs since an unsigned Barber is the only one almost on the roster right now. I expect them to take an RB with a first or second, another on the second day, and bring in some UFA prospects later. My only problem with Jones in the first is seeing that pick as the beginning of a second tier of RBs. I don't think that's the type of drafting or the type of value hunting Jerry talks about when he talks draft. He does talk a lot. He has a great grasp of the draft process and how to play it. I think if Mendenhall or Stewart fall to that first pick, 22, then it's a done deal. I think they may try to move up for one, or for a corner they value. But I think they also may move down for a back should the top tier be depleted. They have also discussed targetting a back "like" Barber, not someone much different. They like what Barber brings and aren't looking for change of pace support, just support.

The Steve Slaton I saw as a freshman is apparently no more. He was a dynamic and explosive back with some of the best burst, moves and hands I have seen. He looked very similar to what Reggie looked like at USC, very very similar. Then he put up big numbers again as a sophomore, playing through injury, and some people started questioning his game. I didn't see the issues they saw, but they sure appear to have it right, because Slaton did not look like an NFL RB as a junior. He looked slower, he coughed up the ball, he folded on contact, showed very little elusiveness, and basically looked like a guy who needed a ton more strength, power, and agility. I'm one of those who had him very near the top of this class, and I have him well out of the top ten backs now. I doubt he can find what he had as a freshman, and it could have been a mirage based on lucky plays happening at an unusual rate. I don't know, but I'm not too interested in Slaton beyond hoping he proves us all wrong and returns to form. He was great fun to watch three years ago.

 

[johnnyshaka]

I'll throw this out there...I think the "Devin Hester Effect" (formerly known as the "X-Factor" trademarked by D. Hall) may be kicking in here. Teams have noticed over the past couple of years how he has changed how teams deal with the Bears' return game and want to be able to exert that kind of pressure, too. Is that worth a first round pick?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I'm tired of the "obvious Arkansas ties" causing Dallas to reach for Felix. It may yet happen. Dallas has been predictable for a couple years. And they've choked in the first round lately, imo. They need a couple RBs since an unsigned Barber is the only one almost on the roster right now. I expect them to take an RB with a first or second, another on the second day, and bring in some UFA prospects later. My only problem with Jones in the first is seeing that pick as the beginning of a second tier of RBs. I don't think that's the type of drafting or the type of value hunting Jerry talks about when he talks draft. He does talk a lot. He has a great grasp of the draft process and how to play it. I think if Mendenhall or Stewart fall to that first pick, 22, then it's a done deal. I think they may try to move up for one, or for a corner they value. But I think they also may move down for a back should the top tier be depleted. They have also discussed targetting a back "like" Barber, not someone much different. They like what Barber brings and aren't looking for change of pace support, just support. The Steve Slaton I saw as a freshman is apparently no more. He was a dynamic and explosive back with some of the best burst, moves and hands I have seen. He looked very similar to what Reggie looked like at USC, very very similar. Then he put up big numbers again as a sophomore, playing through injury, and some people started questioning his game. I didn't see the issues they saw, but they sure appear to have it right, because Slaton did not look like an NFL RB as a junior. He looked slower, he coughed up the ball, he folded on contact, showed very little elusiveness, and basically looked like a guy who needed a ton more strength, power, and agility. I'm one of those who had him very near the top of this class, and I have him well out of the top ten backs now. I doubt he can find what he had as a freshman, and it could have been a mirage based on lucky plays happening at an unusual rate. I don't know, but I'm not too interested in Slaton beyond hoping he proves us all wrong and returns to form. He was great fun to watch three years ago.

Who told you this at the beginning of the season?

 

[Chaos Commish]

Who told you this at the beginning of the season? :(

I think it was EBF??

 

[Holy Schneikes]

It's funny, depending on the point they are trying to make, or the player they are talking about, folks seem to be selective about how much stock they put in combine/pro-day 40 times.

Based on 40 time alone, yeah, you'd say Slaton's speed was comparable to Jones'. But there just doesn't seem to be the "wow" factor with Slaton that you seem to get with Jones. Draftnicks (some of whom are hacks, no doubt) almost universally refer to Jones' speed as a huge strong point. They don't seemed to be phased by his somewhat average 40 time.

As a TON of folks mention on this board, 40 time is NOT necessarily the same thing as functional RB playing speed for a lot of reasons. I think 40 times are helpful for evaluation purposes, but FAR, FAR from perfect. We are talking about one or two runs from a sprinter's stance for exactly 40 yards in shorts. You can get really good at starting and shave a 10th off of your time. You can have perfect sprinter's form and shave some time. Neither of things (or any of the other sprinting nuances) translates AT ALL to real-world NFL RB running speed.

For me it kind of leans in one direction. If you have a good/great 40 time (say low 4.4s), it means you are pretty much are a fast guy. You have to have SOME speed to get that good of a time. HOWEVER, a remarkably "fast" guy, could easily run a 4.5 or a 4.6 if he doesn't know what he is doing or simply has a bad couple of starts (starts are critical for short sprints).

In the range we are talking about for these two guys - mid 4.4s, it could really go either way. It's hard to say that they have the same speed because they had the same times. One of them could be significantly faster than the other.

For me, the thing that leads me to believe Jones is a pretty fast guy is the fact that he AVERAGED a 9 yard gain every time he ran with the ball this year, which was basically a modern era record. You can make all kinds of claims about McFadden's presence factoring into that (and I'm sure it did to SOME degree), but 9 YPC is beyond elite, and it doesn't happen without significant functional speed (i.e. a lot of long runs).

Also kind of cracks me up when people talk about how Jones goes down on first contact. I'm not claiming he's a power runner, but if he went down on first contact on every run, and STILL averaged 9 YPC, it tells you he doesn't get touched a lot doesn't it. If he broke a tackle or two would he be getting 15 YPC?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Who told you this at the beginning of the season?

I think it was EBF??

:finger:

 

[ConstruxBoy]

It's funny, depending on the point they are trying to make, or the player they are talking about, folks seem to be selective about how much stock they put in combine/pro-day 40 times.Based on 40 time alone, yeah, you'd say Slaton's speed was comparable to Jones'. But there just doesn't seem to be the "wow" factor with Slaton that you seem to get with Jones. Draftnicks (some of whom are hacks, no doubt) almost universally refer to Jones' speed as a huge strong point. They don't seemed to be phased by his somewhat average 40 time.As a TON of folks mention on this board, 40 time is NOT necessarily the same thing as functional RB playing speed for a lot of reasons. I think 40 times are helpful for evaluation purposes, but FAR, FAR from perfect. We are talking about one or two runs from a sprinter's stance for exactly 40 yards in shorts. You can get really good at starting and shave a 10th off of your time. You can have perfect sprinter's form and shave some time. Neither of things (or any of the other sprinting nuances) translates AT ALL to real-world NFL RB running speed.For me it kind of leans in one direction. If you have a good/great 40 time (say low 4.4s), it means you are pretty much are a fast guy. You have to have SOME speed to get that good of a time. HOWEVER, a remarkably "fast" guy, could easily run a 4.5 or a 4.6 if he doesn't know what he is doing or simply has a bad couple of starts (starts are critical for short sprints).In the range we are talking about for these two guys - mid 4.4s, it could really go either way. It's hard to say that they have the same speed because they had the same times. One of them could be significantly faster than the other.For me, the thing that leads me to believe Jones is a pretty fast guy is the fact that he AVERAGED a 9 yard gain every time he ran with the ball this year, which was basically a modern era record. You can make all kinds of claims about McFadden's presence factoring into that (and I'm sure it did to SOME degree), but 9 YPC is beyond elite, and it doesn't happen without significant functional speed (i.e. a lot of long runs).Also kind of cracks me up when people talk about how Jones goes down on first contact. I'm not claiming he's a power runner, but if he went down on first contact on every run, and STILL averaged 9 YPC, it tells you he doesn't get touched a lot doesn't it. If he broke a tackle or two would he be getting 15 YPC?

If you watch the Draftguys TV segment about 40 times, I think it's pretty obvious why 40 times and functional times don't match. The two most important things that the trainer is teaching the player about the 40 times is to get a great start out of the blocks and to really swing their arms. Well, a NFL RB is not starting their runs out of a block, with all their power condensed as their legs are "cocked" in the starting block. A NFL RB is also not going to be able to swing their arms quite as quickly or much with a football cradled in one of them. So I think that most RBs can be taught to increase their speed for the 4o at the combine or Pro Day. But that increase in speed is unlikely to carry back over to running with a football.

 

[bcr8f]

Why? The NFL drools over anything the Pats and Cowboys do.

 

[Mr. Chumley]

I'll throw this out there...I think the "Devin Hester Effect" (formerly known as the "X-Factor" trademarked by D. Hall) may be kicking in here. Teams have noticed over the past couple of years how he has changed how teams deal with the Bears' return game and want to be able to exert that kind of pressure, too. Is that worth a first round pick?

Unfortunately, it was to the Dolphins last year.

 

[JAA]

Very interesting

My guess is both players will see about the same amount of opportunity.