FF Thread, Ezra Klein, The New York Times, And Rising Anti-Semitism Among Young People (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

Hey guys, don’t want to bemoan anything too much or get too emo but I felt like there was a day here that was completely ridiculous and I’ll be brief because the subject matter is way more important than I am —but I’ll address the “me” part up front and then end it.

My assertion about American young people and their spiking anti-Semitic attitudes was called “contrarian spew.” That is not to single the person out but to allow the reader a glimpse into the mindset with which the point was received.

I’ll get over the invective. But here is a link to the front section of the NYT app and the subject of The Ezra Klein Show dated Nov. 14th, 2025. The subject matter is about the exact specific thing and comes from the exact specific demographic and cultural POV from which I claimed it came.

This was not something so far out there and contrarian that it was ridiculously esoteric nor even anything but mainstream. And that should worry us. That it is a lead story of the **Paper of Record** two months hence is deeply troubling. It’s a serious issue that could use attention and recognition.

Video: Opinion | Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes and the Right’s ‘Groyper’ Problem

The political writer John Ganz dissects the Republican Party’s internal battle over antisemitism.

www.nytimes.com

 

[rockaction]

In case anybody is curious about the topic or what was said then it’s here. Not looking to re-litigate but to update. Peace.

Thread 'Is this ff team name offensive?'
https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/is-this-ff-team-name-offensive.817708/

 

[Northern Voice]

Have thoughts. Can't really state them here. I think not talking about it is a cowardly way out and generally symbolic of USA in 2025 but it is what it is.

 

[Mookie]

Would love to engage in a discussion but it's impossible here.

 

[Todem]

In case anybody is curious about the topic or what was said then it’s here. Not looking to re-litigate but to update. Peace.

Thread 'Is this ff team name offensive?'
https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/is-this-ff-team-name-offensive.817708/

This a "far right" and "far left" problem.....period. Most of us in the middle (the 80% in this country) are really taking notice at the rising anti semitism on both sides of the lunatic fringes and on our college campuses.

Social Media has given all the lunatics a loud voice on highly inflammatory views. And it's highly dangerous and spreading like a wild fire in our youth.

It's too bad we can't have adult conversations here.....it's literally impossible. I will leave it at that.

 

[squistion]

Have thoughts. Can't really state them here. I think not talking about it is a cowardly way out and generally symbolic of USA in 2025 but it is what it is.

Welcome to the club.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This is a platform, just like a myriad of other platforms around today, dealing with the issue of dissemination of misinformation & disinformation (or rather in this case not dealing with it). On this point, I refer you to my friends from Toronto:

You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that’s clear
I will choose free will.

Link.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

In case anybody is curious about the topic or what was said then it’s here. Not looking to re-litigate but to update. Peace.

Thread 'Is this ff team name offensive?'
https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/is-this-ff-team-name-offensive.817708/

This a "far right" and "far left" problem.....period. Most of us in the middle (the 80% in this country) are really taking notice at the rising anti semitism on both sides of the lunatic fringes and on our college campuses.

Social Media has given all the lunatics a loud voice on highly inflammatory views. And it's highly dangerous and spreading like a wild fire in our youth.

It's too bad we can't have adult conversations here.....it's literally impossible. I will leave it at that.

Yes, whenever I hear people trying to invoke antisemitism to score political points against the other side I remind them that, unfortunately, we Jews have never had the luxury of fighting a one-front war.

I think the point that Rock is making -- and if I'm reading him right, it's a point I totally agree with -- is that the young have always sought to find ways to "shock" their elders, but whereas in the past that might have meant smoking or growing their hair long or listening to punk rock, increasingly these days it means openly expressing bigotry.

Even if I did know what we as a society should do to combat this trend, I probably couldn't get into it in this forum. So I'll just say I find it both sad and scary and leave it at that

 

[rockaction]

In case anybody is curious about the topic or what was said then it’s here. Not looking to re-litigate but to update. Peace.

Thread 'Is this ff team name offensive?'
https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/is-this-ff-team-name-offensive.817708/

This a "far right" and "far left" problem.....period. Most of us in the middle (the 80% in this country) are really taking notice at the rising anti semitism on both sides of the lunatic fringes and on our college campuses.

Social Media has given all the lunatics a loud voice on highly inflammatory views. And it's highly dangerous and spreading like a wild fire in our youth.

It's too bad we can't have adult conversations here.....it's literally impossible. I will leave it at that.

Yes, whenever I hear people trying to invoke antisemitism to score political points against the other side I remind them that, unfortunately, we Jews have never had the luxury of fighting a one-front war.

I think the point that Rock is making -- and if I'm reading him right, it's a point I totally agree with -- is that the young have always sought to find ways to "shock" their elders, but whereas in the past that might have meant smoking or growing their hair long or listening to punk rock, increasingly these days it means openly expressing bigotry.

Even if I did know what we as a society should do to combat this trend, I probably couldn't get into it in this forum. So I'll just say I find it both sad and scary and leave it at that

Yes. This is not to score political points and that only became a bone of contention for a few. I am trying to keep it as honest as I can. People know my sympathies were lain quite seriously with the American Buckley-esque fusionist right and to have to witness this development in real time within the political world of the right is mortifying and shocking. I would throw the campus left in there whole hog because it is just as disgusting but from everything I’ve been exposed to or read it is the right and according to at least one study that hypothesized a “boomerang” of anti-semitism on both extreme left and right they’re finding it 7x or so more with the young 18-34 year old right. The older folks do look like a boomerang.

John Ganz, interviewed by Klein, posits (like I do) that it starts as meme and edgelord shock and then we have, in his words paraphrased, ““jokes about the Holocaust” which are sickening to people like me, but with Xers and Boomers being part of the problem (especially those of us involved with the “*****,” losing right of yesteryear, our distress is their victory in lulz. That said, Fuentes and others in that milieu love Mao and Stalin, so I do not know how tgeif. Ideology is in any way coherent, which makes it worse and scarier than it otherwise might be

I was never trying to score political points or blame a side—it kills me, actually. But this is where it is right now.

 

[urbanhack]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

 

[KarmaPolice]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Correct. I was going to ask what % of the issue could be attributed to the morphing definition of words we see.

 

[rockaction]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Dude, these days that's usually what flies out of the mouths of those about to launch into the most anti-semitic garbage you've ever heard while they strain to condemn the October 7th massacre which brought us protests Oct. 8th in anticipation of an Israeli response not yet commenced. It's almost as bad as "with all due respect . . . ". I'm not saying you do but I know I'm about to hear public criticism of "Israel" for the next few minutes and it's usually someplace in Los Angeles or Berzerkley with the same old agitating actors, but I'm going let the people to whom it's directed toward decide whether or not it qualifies and how they define it because that's just how I roll.

 

[the moops]

Dude, these days that's usually what flies out of the most anti-semitic of mouths.

I don't doubt there are some people that try and shield themselves with this, but that is not the norm.

 

[rockaction]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Correct. I was going to ask what % of the issue could be attributed to the morphing definition of words we see.

Yeah. It's been pretty standard for a long time. Don't let people who protested the Israeli on October 8th get it twisted for you. It includes accusations of loyalty to Israel before America or a European country, the thoughts that Jewish people control the banks, the information systems (the media), that Jews should feel ashamed or feel impelled to condemn Israel's military actions or settlers in the West Bank, any of the grotesqueries involving hook noses, cartoons with the same, calling people Shylock, etc. etc. and on and on

 

[urbanhack]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Dude, these days that's usually what flies out of the mouths of those about to launch into the most anti-semitic garbage you've ever heard while they strain to condemn the October 7th massacre which brought us protests Oct. 8th in anticipation of an Israeli response not yet commenced. That pathetic strip of land so crucial since 1946 that wanted all of it and went through several nationslist wars and on to jabberjawing everybody at the UN while dum**** with the ears ceded land to those grotesque, borderline conscious things over therre . It's almost as bad as "with all due respect . . . ". I'm not saying you do but I know I'm about to hear public criticism of "Israel" for the next few minutes and it's usually someplace in Los Angeles or Berzerkley with the same old agitating actors, but I'm going to the people who it's directed at decide whether or not it generally is because that's just how I roll.

You are completely wrong here.

 

[rockaction]

Dude, these days that's usually what flies out of the most anti-semitic of mouths.

I don't doubt there are some people that try and shield themselves with this, but that is not the norm.

Not even remotely close to my experience. Perhaps that is the case in the welcoming arms and the cool summer breeze blowing in from the once-placid enclaves that had previously dotted Lake Somaliasota, but not where I am, which is a convenient inland hour-thirty from Los Angeles. Any time I hear or have heard that phrase it's been uttered by some twit at a Students for Justice in Palestine protest—and by the way, if you supported the main BDS movement or them, you were finding common cause with hard, hardcore communists and students who were shadily funded by terrorists and put out the nicest literature by the gentlest folk whose goal was the edifying state of affairs where "the Palestinians have already won" and that is was time to begin the project of continu[ing] to dismantle the Zionist Project and the U.S. Empire from within. Glory to the martyrs. Until liberation, Editorial Board, National Students for a Justice in Palestine"

Was so nice that our last administration had two members of this group close to and brokering the "peace" between Hamas (oh, this was forward-thinking!) and Israel. With the young right the way it is, the SJP Editorial Board may yet be proved prescient rather than foolish.

 

[rockaction]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Dude, these days that's usually what flies out of the mouths of those about to launch into the most anti-semitic garbage you've ever heard while they strain to condemn the October 7th massacre which brought us protests Oct. 8th in anticipation of an Israeli response not yet commenced. That pathetic strip of land so crucial since 1946 that wanted all of it and went through several nationslist wars and on to jabberjawing everybody at the UN while dum**** with the ears ceded land to those grotesque, borderline conscious things over therre . It's almost as bad as "with all due respect . . . ". I'm not saying you do but I know I'm about to hear public criticism of "Israel" for the next few minutes and it's usually someplace in Los Angeles or Berzerkley with the same old agitating actors, but I'm going to the people who it's directed at decide whether or not it generally is because that's just how I roll.

You are completely wrong here.

No, if I scratch the surface for about one minute I've usually gotten to the center of that Tootsie Pop like the owl in the '70s commercials. Not my fight, though, so I tend to let my Jewish brothers-in-arms take up their own cause, so I don't destroy their agency or get confused with some of those with political convenience or motive.

You can take it up with them.

 

[urbanhack]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Dude, these days that's usually what flies out of the mouths of those about to launch into the most anti-semitic garbage you've ever heard while they strain to condemn the October 7th massacre which brought us protests Oct. 8th in anticipation of an Israeli response not yet commenced. That pathetic strip of land so crucial since 1946 that wanted all of it and went through several nationslist wars and on to jabberjawing everybody at the UN while dum**** with the ears ceded land to those grotesque, borderline conscious things over therre . It's almost as bad as "with all due respect . . . ". I'm not saying you do but I know I'm about to hear public criticism of "Israel" for the next few minutes and it's usually someplace in Los Angeles or Berzerkley with the same old agitating actors, but I'm going to the people who it's directed at decide whether or not it generally is because that's just how I roll.

You are completely wrong here.

No, if I scratch the surface for about one minute I've usually gotten to the center of that Tootsie Pop like the owl in the '70s commercials. Not my fight, though, so I tend to let my Jewish brothers-in-arms take up their own cause, so I don't destroy their agency or get confused with some of those with political convenience or motive.

You can take it up with them.

There are jewish people who feel this exact same way.

I'm done.

No need to reply.

 

[rockaction]

There are jewish people who feel this exact same way.

I know there are.

You don't set the terms of anything, bro, especially what I reply to in a public forum. I'm not looking for your input in any way, shape, or . . . you know the rest. You had to come in here and make sure you had the right to criticize "Israel."

Okay.

eta* I think I'm pretty careful about not only respecting individuals that belong to a religion and culture as large and diverse as Jews or Judaism but in also treading lightly in that respect. What I started the thread for was both to alert, which was a sign of distress, but also that I had not been nuts to address this several months ago and declare that it was a large phenomenon that was a very, very bad one.

 

[urbanhack]

There are jewish people who feel this exact same way.

I know there are.

You don't set the terms of anything, bro, especially what I reply to in a public forum. I'm not looking for your input in any way, shape, or . . . you know the rest. You had to come in here and make sure you had the right to criticize "Israel."

Okay.

"side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism"

hint: That's not me being critical of Israel.

 

[rockaction]

There are jewish people who feel this exact same way.

I know there are.

You don't set the terms of anything, bro, especially what I reply to in a public forum. I'm not looking for your input in any way, shape, or . . . you know the rest. You had to come in here and make sure you had the right to criticize "Israel."

Okay.

"side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism"

hint: That's not me being critical of Israel.

I'm glad you took it upon yourself to provide the definition of what was and wasn't. Statutory drafting and deciding what counts as a member of a class of things requires a lot more consideration than a slogan that portends to establish an absolute prophylactic rule about everything within a particular rubric of that which is and isn't. It isn't simply ontological.

 

[KarmaPolice]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Correct. I was going to ask what % of the issue could be attributed to the morphing definition of words we see.

Yeah. It's been pretty standard for a long time. Don't let people who protested the Israeli on October 8th get it twisted for you. It includes accusations of loyalty to Israel before America or a European country, the thoughts that Jewish people control the banks, the information systems (the media), that Jews should feel ashamed or feel impelled to condemn Israel's military actions or settlers in the West Bank, any of the grotesqueries involving hook noses, cartoons with the same, calling people Shylock, etc. etc. and on and on

Yeah, this is what I am getting at. By your post, I am antisemitic, and tosses a pretty wide net that includes criticism of a country's military and actions as a government. That isn't my idea of the term, but I will also admit it's not a topic and issue I was ever really familiar with so I could be wrong. I will say I have seen a warping of a few other similar terms in the last several years, and that was the reason I asked the above question.

 

[rockaction]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

Correct. I was going to ask what % of the issue could be attributed to the morphing definition of words we see.

Yeah. It's been pretty standard for a long time. Don't let people who protested the Israeli on October 8th get it twisted for you. It includes accusations of loyalty to Israel before America or a European country, the thoughts that Jewish people control the banks, the information systems (the media), that Jews should feel ashamed or feel impelled to condemn Israel's military actions or settlers in the West Bank, any of the grotesqueries involving hook noses, cartoons with the same, calling people Shylock, etc. etc. and on and on

Yeah, this is what I am getting at. By your post, I am antisemitic, and tosses a pretty wide net that includes criticism of a country's military and actions as a government. That isn't my idea of the term, but I will also admit it's not a topic and issue I was ever really familiar with so I could be wrong. I will say I have seen a warping of a few other similar terms in the last several years, and that was the reason I asked the above question

No, I didn’t say that at all. Please do me the favor of reading it again. I get your confusion. Allow me and I shouldn’t have listed anything. Usually when people expect somebody to feel impelled to apologize for a country where they don’t live you’ve diminished their status as Americans or, say, Frenchmen and done a thing where you no longer treating them as individuals but as a member of a group. It’s dehumanizing and assigns them a group when they might prefer to be individuals.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I think the Israeli government killed too many innocents with their response to October 7th. I protest the continued killing of innocents in Gaza. Does that make me anti-Semitic?

 

[rockaction]

I think the Israeli government killed too many innocents with their response to October 7th. I protest the continued killing of innocents in Gaza. Does that make me anti-Semitic?

I don’t know if that’s directed at me but I already expressed a desire to let others determine that. I will say that i always knew who was putting on any protest that was coming to our area and I didn’t even go to them. It always seemed to me that if you cared enough to protest and organize you would want to find out who you were allying yourself with.

But your question is more than that—it either seeks no answer because it’s tone is sarcastic and rhetorical and/or embedded within is a clearly bad faith argument that takes my mention of “this is who your allies are indeed,” and somehow takes that off handed comment and claims I am implying that if you protested then you are anti-Semitic. I said no such thing nor could a reasonable person conclude that in any thoughtful way unless they were filling in gaps with conclusions not inhering anywhere in order to discredit the discussion.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Incorrect assumptions usually lead to incorrect conclusions.

 

[scorchy]

Hey rock. Definitely not wanting to wade too much into the Israel debate here, but rising anti-semitism among younger folks is something that the kid and I were just talking about. As I think you and I have discussed before, it's something he's seen a lot of in his current campus environs (mainly from the left). OTOH, one of his best friends from HS just finished basic training a few months back and was telling him how ingrained it seemed to be in the conservative dudes he's serving with (and from what I can tell, has nothing to do with Israel at all). Similar to what someone wrote above, it's like a horseshoe where folks on both ends are converging into a prejudice that seems as old as time.

 

[dickey moe]

side note: being critical of the state of Israel is NOT antisemitism.

This really is is the crux of the discussion.

 

[Ilov80s]

I feel like anti-everything is on the rise right now. Anti-Fill-in-the-Blank.

 

[rockaction]

Hey rock. Definitely not wanting to wade too much into the Israel debate here, but rising anti-semitism among younger folks is something that the kid and I were just talking about. As I think you and I have discussed before, it's something he's seen a lot of in his current campus environs (mainly from the left). OTOH, one of his best friends from HS just finished basic training a few months back and was telling him how ingrained it seemed to be in the conservative dudes he's serving with (and from I can tell, has nothing to do with Israel at all). Similar to what someone wrote above, it's like a horseshoe where folks on both ends are converging into a prejudice that seems as old as time.

Hey scorchy,

Good to see you! I am sorry to hear that is the case. I am saddened but not surprised. I am sure that there is plenty of it on the left as well. I watched the campus protests through the independent journalists (whatever one thinks of them) and was so sickened by the state of the campus and this exact phenomenon that it took me months to sort of come down, as it were. Talked to an old friend of mine I was close with some time ago and we sort of got on the subject and I was expressing that I was sick for him and he said at one point—and he has lived in New York since our mid-twenties—that there was a “non-zero chance” he would consider moving to Israel, which wasn’t something he had ever previously expressed.

But this really isn’t—as you point out—about Israel. It’s about a hatred and scapegoating that, as you point out again, is age-old and is finding expression in our youth. And I only attributed it to one side because the stuff I was reading and seeing was coming from there, and while I saw the campuses and the tropes and the hatred; you have an ecosystem that has allowed an avowed neo-Nazi the largest platform one side has. Then there is another popular media figure using a man’s death to push an entire story concocted from thin air to pin it on The Mossad. 2016 saw rightist 4Chan threatening writers with animated ovens and other depraved imagery. I wandered into conservative Twitter/X and left after a few weeks completely sapped of all hope and shaken. Eugenics within the social sciences had gotten a return foothold in the nineties with The Bell Curve ushering in old hereditarian arguments about IQ and demography and once that was established it was no longer taboo to mention racial difference as a function of nature.

So fast forward and it’s extra prevalent. It’s just part of the environment and then you throw in the clowns, satirists, and social butterflies and it becomes a scene with an ecosystem and credits. But your campus experience is all-too familiar and there is plenty of anti-semitism to go around.

 

[Northern Voice]

As I read through this thread it just feels like another instance of religion/lack of religion? spreading hate and division am I wrong?

 

[Northern Voice]

I feel like anti-everything is on the rise right now. Anti-Fill-in-the-Blank.

Mostly agree, but it's usually in the name of... something (usually some undefinable God that doesn't exist).

 

[Captain Cranks]

Things like this certainly aren't helping.