Flacco, elite or not? (1 Viewer)

[RGIII HTTR]

Is it me or does the media just love to bandwagon on stuff...case in point, FLACCO! ALl this talk about him being elite, tiresome just scratches the surface on that merry go round. I have never seen an supposed to be elite QB throw off his back foot soooo much, but for some reason...never mentioned. In fairness, the knucklehead Mayock was leading the way in stupidity last night. ON a separate note Mayock has got to be the worst in the business!

Am I missing something or is this Flacco elite crap just hype?

 

[RGIII HTTR]

The constant "elite" talk and drooling over Flacco reminds me a bit of Madden's man crush on Favre.

 

[jim k]

He has the arm strength for sure. With Rice as a crutch hard to gauge. A good fit for this current offense but he is oblivious in the pocket and has no feel for the position. He is robot quarterback.

 

[Road Warriors]

He's very good and getting better. Elite? Not sure I'm putting him in the tier with Brees, Rodgers and Brady just yet.

I thought I heard Mayock say he's a top 3-4 QB in the league last night. Absolutely nuts.

QBs I'd take over Flacco ( for a season, so no age consideration )

Rodgers

Brees

Brady

Eli

Roethlisberger

Ryan

Romo

Stafford

Maybe Peyton, Alex Smith. IMO, puts Flacco near the end of the top 10. Very good, and showing improvement year to year. He has a chance to be among the elite, but it'll take some post-season heroics or a shift in the team dynamic where he's asked to carry the load to change the perception of his value.

In a way, his progression is similar to 2001-2005 Brady. Good with the ball, low int %, on a team defined more by its Defense than an offensive juggernaut. Brady was annointed early due to SB wins, but didn't put up the "elite stats" until later. Flacco could be headed toward a similar shift as the BAL defense ages and they continue to add weapons on offense.

 

[James Daulton]

Not elite. Late end of top ten. Good enough to win late games and win the superbowl with a good team, but can't carry a team for an entire season. A huge upgrade over the dreck the Ravens had troted out the prior 6 - 7 years before him.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

He's very good and getting better. Elite? Not sure I'm putting him in the tier with Brees, Rodgers and Brady just yet.

I thought I heard Mayock say he's a top 3-4 QB in the league last night. Absolutely nuts.

QBs I'd take over Flacco ( for a season, so no age consideration )

Rodgers

Brees

Brady

Eli

Roethlisberger

Ryan

Romo

Stafford

Maybe Peyton, Alex Smith. IMO, puts Flacco near the end of the top 10. Very good, and showing improvement year to year. He has a chance to be among the elite, but it'll take some post-season heroics or a shift in the team dynamic where he's asked to carry the load to change the perception of his value.

In a way, his progression is similar to 2001-2005 Brady. Good with the ball, low int %, on a team defined more by its Defense than an offensive juggernaut. Brady was annointed early due to SB wins, but didn't put up the "elite stats" until later. Flacco could be headed toward a similar shift as the BAL defense ages and they continue to add weapons on offense.

I could see debate about these two because of end performance and being injury prone, but overall a GREAT list in comparison. I don't think Flacco is a bum, but just don't see what the big deal is about him and why the word "elite" is even mentioned with him. As I said, I have never seen a QB that is supposed to be top tier throw off their back foot as much as him.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Not elite. Late end of top ten. Good enough to win late games and win the superbowl with a good team, but can't carry a team for an entire season. A huge upgrade over the dreck the Ravens had troted out the prior 6 - 7 years before him.

By saying that, you made it clear...that is not a definition of an ELITE QB.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

He has the arm strength for sure. With Rice as a crutch hard to gauge. A good fit for this current offense but he is oblivious in the pocket and has no feel for the position. He is robot quarterback.

Right! I don't see him a game changer, so how can someone be elite if they can't do that?

 

[sholditch]

Not elite. Late end of top ten. Good enough to win late games and win the superbowl with a good team, but can't carry a team for an entire season. A huge upgrade over the dreck the Ravens had troted out the prior 6 - 7 years before him.

By saying that, you made it clear...that is not a definition of an ELITE QB.

Haven't they gone to the playoffs every year he's been a starter? Or are you including playoffs in the season?

 

[Sinn Fein]

who cares if he is "elite"?

He has a favorable schedule, a good QB friendly offense, and an aging, mediocre defense, which will lead to many high scoring games. He is very likely going to be in the top-5 in almost any fantasy format this year.

 

[mr roboto]

who cares if he is "elite"?He has a favorable schedule, a good QB friendly offense, and an aging, mediocre defense, which will lead to many high scoring games. He is very likely going to be in the top-5 in almost any fantasy format this year.

Elite for FF or elite in the NFL?Maybe they are the same, maybe not. Cam was elite from a FF perspective last year, but the team didn't win. Not entirely his fault, but I would venture to guess that there are many nfl execs who would take Flacco, Schaub etc over Cam right now.

 

[matttyl]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense.

This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games.

As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

 

[otb_lifer]

The numbers don't lie; but that was one of the the most ho-hum 360/2 td games I ever saw.

From a fantasy standpoint, golden. But dude never seems to be " zoned" like the guys ranked/rated above him.

A stat compiler this year, will well outkick his adp coverage ... and he wins games.

Creeping into fantasy " elite" territory? Seems likely this year

NFL elite? not sold yet.

But Eisen made a great point last night .... no dropped pass at the end of last year's AFC championship game, and this discussion/debate is a whole hell of a lot more interesting.

 

[GManiac]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense. This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games. As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

Elite - A HOF player or borderline player. A player you can count on year in, year out to put up top QB stats regardless of type of offense they are working out of. The ability to win. The ability to take a game under control and carry the team on their back. The ability to adjust and correct having a bad game. Elite skill set, physical and mental attributes. IMO, Flacco only has an arm, decent brain, can win..... but that's it. He doesn't have it all. He's not elite. I also contribute his winning record more to the defense and run game. He is a good game manager. He is a QB who can have a few Pro Bowl years here and there. But he is not ELITE. He is not, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben, Brees or Rodgers. Also possibly, Newton, Ryan, Rivers, Vick. He probably IS similar to Romo, Cutler, or Palmer. If put any of Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Eli etc... and put them on Baltimore, I do believe they would take the team where Flacco cant. Just my observation and opinion.

 

[Warhogs]

This is really no different than the use of the term stud around here on these message boards. I guess it's all in an individuals definition. To me elite QB means to be in the top 3-5 range. Flacco is not. He is a pretty good QB with enough years left in him to possibly reach that level.

Of course I feel the same way about the term stud RB used around here. I think there are really only a handful of stud RBs in fantasy football but others choose to determine any RB in the top 20 a stud.

To each their own I guess.

 

[matttyl]

But Eisen made a great point last night .... no dropped pass at the end of last year's AFC championship game, and this discussion/debate is a whole hell of a lot more interesting.

Very, very good point. At what point did Eli become "Elite"? His 2007 Super Bowl win certainly helped those talks, though he only threw for 3,300 yards that year with 23 TDs to 20 INTs, a 73.9 passer rating and 13 recorded fumbles. The following year he had ever fewer passing yards and fewer passing TDs. Make no mistake about it, he's about to be paid like an ELITE QB!

 

[habsfan]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense.

This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games.

As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

Elite - A HOF player or borderline player. A player you can count on year in, year out to put up top QB stats regardless of type of offense they are working out of. The ability to win. The ability to take a game under control and carry the team on their back. The ability to adjust and correct having a bad game. Elite skill set, physical and mental attributes. IMO, Flacco only has an arm, decent brain, can win..... but that's it. He doesn't have it all. He's not elite. I also contribute his winning record more to the defense and run game. He is a good game manager. He is a QB who can have a few Pro Bowl years here and there. But he is not ELITE. He is not, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben, Brees or Rodgers. Also possibly, Newton, Ryan, Rivers, Vick. He probably IS similar to Romo, Cutler, or Palmer. If put any of Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Eli etc... and put them on Baltimore, I do believe they would take the team where Flacco cant. Just my observation and opinion.

Not saying I disagree but this makes a lot of "elite" guys not so elite.The term seems to get thrown around a lot and it seems to boil down to a QB getting membership in the "stop questioning every single thing he does" club.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

In the first quarter last night, he was bad Flacco. The interception was a horrendous decision and even his completion to Torrey Smith on the slant route just before was way behind the receiver and could have also resulted in disaster if Smith had deflected it instead of catching it cleanly (great catch btw). He turned in a decent fantasy performance but he's still a very erratic passer at times so by that defintion he's not an elite QB.

 

[mr roboto]

But Eisen made a great point last night .... no dropped pass at the end of last year's AFC championship game, and this discussion/debate is a whole hell of a lot more interesting.

Very, very good point. At what point did Eli become "Elite"? His 2007 Super Bowl win certainly helped those talks, though he only threw for 3,300 yards that year with 23 TDs to 20 INTs, a 73.9 passer rating and 13 recorded fumbles. The following year he had ever fewer passing yards and fewer passing TDs. Make no mistake about it, he's about to be paid like an ELITE QB!

I feel that the Flacco debate now is very similar to the Eli debate a few years ago. Now Eli is 'elite' because he chucks it a lot, won 2 superbowls, and has a top 5 receiving corps. He also got better. My hope and gut is that Flacco will progress similarly in the next few years. We may be seeing it now.

 

[DocHolliday]

Flacco is not elite in my mind either. Elite is the label for the very special players. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, and Brees are elite QBs today. Flacco belongs in that next tier with Rothlisburger and Eli. Rothlesburger and Eli are at the top of that group and Flacco is working his way up.

 

[DoubleG]

Flacco is not elite in my mind either. Elite is the label for the very special players. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, and Brees are elite QBs today. Flacco belongs in that next tier with Rothlisburger and Eli. Rothlesburger and Eli are at the top of that group and Flacco is working his way up.

That's where I seem him as well. You've got the big 3 (4 if you add P. Manning) in the "elite group.After that in the "very good, but not elite" tier (sometimes having to do with talent, situation, etc.) I would probably put:Big BenEliMatt RyanFlacco (maybe)I could also tolerate Cam and Romo in this group.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I think folks have trouble separating stats from skill sets, especially here. Elite is a tough word to find a common understanding for to begin with.

I don't know if he is an elite QB or not, but I do think that if he had been playing in NE or GB over the past 5 years or so, things would look very different.

 

[matttyl]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense. This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games. As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

Elite - A HOF player or borderline player. A player you can count on year in, year out to put up top QB stats regardless of type of offense they are working out of. The ability to win. The ability to take a game under control and carry the team on their back. The ability to adjust and correct having a bad game. Elite skill set, physical and mental attributes. IMO, Flacco only has an arm, decent brain, can win..... but that's it. He doesn't have it all. He's not elite. I also contribute his winning record more to the defense and run game. He is a good game manager. He is a QB who can have a few Pro Bowl years here and there. But he is not ELITE. He is not, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben, Brees or Rodgers. Also possibly, Newton, Ryan, Rivers, Vick. He probably IS similar to Romo, Cutler, or Palmer. If put any of Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Eli etc... and put them on Baltimore, I do believe they would take the team where Flacco cant. Just my observation and opinion.

Interesting names you threw in there as "Elite".First 4 years in the NFL -Flacco - 13,816 passing yards, 80 passing TDs, 4 rushing (84 total), 46 INTsEli - (took out his partial rookie season, as he only started 7 games his rookie year) 13,580 passing yards, 92 passing TDs, 3 rushing (95 total), 65 INTsBrees - (again, rookie season not included, and this only includes 58 games to Eli and Flacco's 64) 12,127 passing yards, 79 passing TDs, 4 rushing (83 total), 53 INTsBrady - (again, NOT counting rookie season) 13,919 passing yards, 97 passing TDs, 2 rushing (98 total), 52 INTsBen - 11,673 passing yards, 84 passing TDs, 8 rushing (92 total), 54 INTsOk, there is no comparison to Rodgers or Peyton's first 4 years. But Flacco holds his own against the Eli's, and Brees', and Brady's and Ben's of the world when you compare their first 4 years' stats, and he looks even better if you compare wins. If Lee Evans had made that catch in last year's AFC title game, he's also stack up very nicely against these guys in Super Bowl appearances/wins.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense. This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games. As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

Elite - A HOF player or borderline player. A player you can count on year in, year out to put up top QB stats regardless of type of offense they are working out of. The ability to win. The ability to take a game under control and carry the team on their back. The ability to adjust and correct having a bad game. Elite skill set, physical and mental attributes. IMO, Flacco only has an arm, decent brain, can win..... but that's it. He doesn't have it all. He's not elite. I also contribute his winning record more to the defense and run game. He is a good game manager. He is a QB who can have a few Pro Bowl years here and there. But he is not ELITE. He is not, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben, Brees or Rodgers. Also possibly, Newton, Ryan, Rivers, Vick. He probably IS similar to Romo, Cutler, or Palmer. If put any of Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Eli etc... and put them on Baltimore, I do believe they would take the team where Flacco cant. Just my observation and opinion.

Interesting names you threw in there as "Elite".First 4 years in the NFL -Flacco - 13,816 passing yards, 80 passing TDs, 4 rushing (84 total), 46 INTsEli - (took out his partial rookie season, as he only started 7 games his rookie year) 13,580 passing yards, 92 passing TDs, 3 rushing (95 total), 65 INTsBrees - (again, rookie season not included, and this only includes 58 games to Eli and Flacco's 64) 12,127 passing yards, 79 passing TDs, 4 rushing (83 total), 53 INTsBrady - (again, NOT counting rookie season) 13,919 passing yards, 97 passing TDs, 2 rushing (98 total), 52 INTsBen - 11,673 passing yards, 84 passing TDs, 8 rushing (92 total), 54 INTsOk, there is no comparison to Rodgers or Peyton's first 4 years. But Flacco holds his own against the Eli's, and Brees', and Brady's and Ben's of the world when you compare their first 4 years' stats, and he looks even better if you compare wins. If Lee Evans had made that catch in last year's AFC title game, he's also stack up very nicely against these guys in Super Bowl appearances/wins.

Let's not use IF's cuz then someone can argue that IF Grossman had a brick wall for an OL and 10 ft WR's that had stick'em on their hands...he should be considered too. Interesting stats though, but maybe stats aren't everything. Of course, they are a good measure and make a valid argument.

 

[Road Warriors]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense. This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games. As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

Elite - A HOF player or borderline player. A player you can count on year in, year out to put up top QB stats regardless of type of offense they are working out of. The ability to win. The ability to take a game under control and carry the team on their back. The ability to adjust and correct having a bad game. Elite skill set, physical and mental attributes. IMO, Flacco only has an arm, decent brain, can win..... but that's it. He doesn't have it all. He's not elite. I also contribute his winning record more to the defense and run game. He is a good game manager. He is a QB who can have a few Pro Bowl years here and there. But he is not ELITE. He is not, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben, Brees or Rodgers. Also possibly, Newton, Ryan, Rivers, Vick. He probably IS similar to Romo, Cutler, or Palmer. If put any of Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Eli etc... and put them on Baltimore, I do believe they would take the team where Flacco cant. Just my observation and opinion.

Interesting names you threw in there as "Elite".First 4 years in the NFL -Flacco - 13,816 passing yards, 80 passing TDs, 4 rushing (84 total), 46 INTsEli - (took out his partial rookie season, as he only started 7 games his rookie year) 13,580 passing yards, 92 passing TDs, 3 rushing (95 total), 65 INTsBrees - (again, rookie season not included, and this only includes 58 games to Eli and Flacco's 64) 12,127 passing yards, 79 passing TDs, 4 rushing (83 total), 53 INTsBrady - (again, NOT counting rookie season) 13,919 passing yards, 97 passing TDs, 2 rushing (98 total), 52 INTsBen - 11,673 passing yards, 84 passing TDs, 8 rushing (92 total), 54 INTsOk, there is no comparison to Rodgers or Peyton's first 4 years. But Flacco holds his own against the Eli's, and Brees', and Brady's and Ben's of the world when you compare their first 4 years' stats, and he looks even better if you compare wins. If Lee Evans had made that catch in last year's AFC title game, he's also stack up very nicely against these guys in Super Bowl appearances/wins.

I made the Brady comparison earlier. Brady's first 4 years starting were better overall ( more TDs, more wins, etc), and included 3 SB wins, which is why his stats were overlooked and he was placed in the upper tier early. But Flacco is comparable at that stage of their careers.The question to be answered is whether or not Flacco takes the next step and becomes the focal point of the offense and gets some deeper playoff runs. Part of the perception is he's along for the ride rather than driving the bus ( the same was often said of Brady back then ). The interesting thing to watch is if he can flip that perception and be the leader on offense.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense. This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games. As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

Elite - A HOF player or borderline player. A player you can count on year in, year out to put up top QB stats regardless of type of offense they are working out of. The ability to win. The ability to take a game under control and carry the team on their back. The ability to adjust and correct having a bad game. Elite skill set, physical and mental attributes. IMO, Flacco only has an arm, decent brain, can win..... but that's it. He doesn't have it all. He's not elite. I also contribute his winning record more to the defense and run game. He is a good game manager. He is a QB who can have a few Pro Bowl years here and there. But he is not ELITE. He is not, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben, Brees or Rodgers. Also possibly, Newton, Ryan, Rivers, Vick. He probably IS similar to Romo, Cutler, or Palmer. If put any of Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Eli etc... and put them on Baltimore, I do believe they would take the team where Flacco cant. Just my observation and opinion.

Interesting names you threw in there as "Elite".First 4 years in the NFL -Flacco - 13,816 passing yards, 80 passing TDs, 4 rushing (84 total), 46 INTsEli - (took out his partial rookie season, as he only started 7 games his rookie year) 13,580 passing yards, 92 passing TDs, 3 rushing (95 total), 65 INTsBrees - (again, rookie season not included, and this only includes 58 games to Eli and Flacco's 64) 12,127 passing yards, 79 passing TDs, 4 rushing (83 total), 53 INTsBrady - (again, NOT counting rookie season) 13,919 passing yards, 97 passing TDs, 2 rushing (98 total), 52 INTsBen - 11,673 passing yards, 84 passing TDs, 8 rushing (92 total), 54 INTsOk, there is no comparison to Rodgers or Peyton's first 4 years. But Flacco holds his own against the Eli's, and Brees', and Brady's and Ben's of the world when you compare their first 4 years' stats, and he looks even better if you compare wins. If Lee Evans had made that catch in last year's AFC title game, he's also stack up very nicely against these guys in Super Bowl appearances/wins.

I made the Brady comparison earlier. Brady's first 4 years starting were better overall ( more TDs, more wins, etc), and included 3 SB wins, which is why his stats were overlooked and he was placed in the upper tier early. But Flacco is comparable at that stage of their careers.The question to be answered is whether or not Flacco takes the next step and becomes the focal point of the offense and gets some deeper playoff runs. Part of the perception is he's along for the ride rather than driving the bus ( the same was often said of Brady back then ). The interesting thing to watch is if he can flip that perception and be the leader on offense.

Since Ray and Ed are getting long in the tooth, he might naturally start becoming the media focus. I think he play is good and I don't think anyone can argue that, but people throwing out "elite" already is a big stretch IMO. He has played with one of the better defenses helping him out every game since he started. Does he have the talent to lead a team far into the playoffs or win the SB if the Ravens have a marginal defense? I don't think so, at least not at this point.

 

[matttyl]

Sanchez got to what, 2 or 3 strait AFC titles or some crazy post season stat, I don't recall. Anyone calling him "elite"? Certainly won't be when a backup RB takes his QB spot!

Seriously, though, Flacco (at this stage in his young career) is doing very, very well. It's rare (almost never) that you call a guy "elite" after 4 years in the NFL at the QB position. Aside from Rodgers (who was on the bench for 3 years you have to consider), Brady, and Peyton, what QBs have been called "elite" after only 4 years?! Was Big Ben "elite" after 4 years and 2 super bowls?! Didn't think so.

 

[mr roboto]

Re:focus of the offense. It's pretty clear he is this year. No huddle, airing it out often, Rice quotes about this being joes team this year, and their play calling all show the beginning of the trend.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Elite QBs

Rodgers

Brady

Brees

Was elite when healthy, not sure now

Peyton

Very good QBs who get overrated due to team success and positive variance

Eli

Big Ben

Very good QBs who are just as good as the above tier but who get underrated due to lack of team success and negative variance

Romo

Rivers

Very good QBs, all of which could win a Super Bowl if the team around them is good enough

Matt Schaub

Matt Stafford

Matt Ryan

Cam Newton

Joe Flacco

Mike Vick

Jay Cutler

Too soon to tell, but looks like they are already very good and could be elite in a year or two

Luck

RG3

edit: The ordering within tiers is random, don't make anything of that. Also, theres not much difference, if any, between the 3 "very good" tiers....maybe I would ever so slightly prefer Romo/Big Ben/Eli/Rivers over the middle tier with Flacco in it, but its super close.

 

[sholditch]

In the first quarter last night, he was bad Flacco. The interception was a horrendous decision and even his completion to Torrey Smith on the slant route just before was way behind the receiver and could have also resulted in disaster if Smith had deflected it instead of catching it cleanly (great catch btw). He turned in a decent fantasy performance but he's still a very erratic passer at times so by that defintion he's not an elite QB.

By that definition there are no elite QBs.

 

[sholditch]

Elite QBs

Rodgers

Brady

Brees

Was elite when healthy, not sure now

Peyton

Very good QBs who get overrated due to team success and positive variance

Eli

Big Ben

Very good QBs who are just as good as the above tier but who get underrated due to lack of team success and negative variance

Romo

Rivers

Very good QBs, all of which could win a Super Bowl if the team around them is good enough

Matt Schaub

Matt Stafford

Matt Ryan

Cam Newton

Joe Flacco

Mike Vick

Jay Cutler

Too soon to tell, but looks like they are already very good and could be elite in a year or two

Luck

RG3

edit: The ordering within tiers is random, don't make anything of that. Also, theres not much difference, if any, between the 3 "very good" tiers....maybe I would ever so slightly prefer Romo/Big Ben/Eli/Rivers over the middle tier with Flacco in it, but its super close.

What year is this based on. Assuming not this one.

 

[doeseatplace]

I agree with OP

This is pure schtick from ESPN (TV and radio) & NFLN to provide more fodder for 24 hour/day gabbing, and its getting tiring. A QB strings together 3 good games and the discussion crescendoes until the inevitable bad game occurs. At any given time, according to the collective opinions of these yappers, 1/2 the league's QBs are "elite" or verging on elite.



Not everyone can be above average

 

[Assani Fisher]

It is based upon how I would rank them going forward from this current moment, so it takes into account all variables including, but not limited to, their play so far this year. Obviously Peyton, RGIII, and Luck are too tough to rank due to lack of information so I put them into their own special tiers.

 

[Sinn Fein]

QBs I would definitely want ahead of Flacco (right now)

Rodgers

Brady

Brees

QBs in the same tier as Flacco (right now)

Flacco

Manning,E

Roethlisberger

Ryan

Romo

Schaub

QBs I would probably put below Flacco (right now)

Manning,P

Luck

RGIII

Newton

Stafford

QBs I would definitely put below Flacco (right now)

Sanchez

Fitzpatrick

Tannehill

Dalton

Weeden

Gabbert

Locker

Palmer

Rivers

Cassel

Vick (more an injury hedge)

Ponder

Cutler

Freeman

Kolb/Skelton

Wilson

Bradford

Smith

 

[Darryl Talley]

I'm not even sure if Brady is superior to Flacco in fantasy football.

 

[Khy]

He's very good and getting better. Elite? Not sure I'm putting him in the tier with Brees, Rodgers and Brady just yet. I thought I heard Mayock say he's a top 3-4 QB in the league last night. Absolutely nuts.QBs I'd take over Flacco ( for a season, so no age consideration )RodgersBreesBradyEliRoethlisbergerRyanRomoStaffordMaybe Peyton, Alex Smith. IMO, puts Flacco near the end of the top 10. Very good, and showing improvement year to year. He has a chance to be among the elite, but it'll take some post-season heroics or a shift in the team dynamic where he's asked to carry the load to change the perception of his value.In a way, his progression is similar to 2001-2005 Brady. Good with the ball, low int %, on a team defined more by its Defense than an offensive juggernaut. Brady was annointed early due to SB wins, but didn't put up the "elite stats" until later. Flacco could be headed toward a similar shift as the BAL defense ages and they continue to add weapons on offense.

Drop Romo and Stafford from that list. Personlly I'd take Flacco over Romo most of the time. At least he can stay composed in a big game. Romo has proven time and time again that he can't win a big game and likely never will. As for Stafford, I just can't say I'd prefer him over Flacco when he's only really had one 'good healthy' season in his 4 year career. This year? He's already hurt again and he hasn't been nearly as impressive as he was last season. So for now? I'll take Flacco over him.

 

[GManiac]

I guess you first have to ask yourself how many "elite" QBs there are in the league. I mean, if there are going to be 8 QBs throw for 4,700+ yards this year, are all of them "elite"? Is "elite" based on winning? If so, there is no way you can't say that Flacco isn't elite as he's won more games since 2008 than any QB. Sure, he might be a "game manager", but that's all he's ever been asked to do so far in his career due to the defense they've had. You can't knock the guy cause they have such a great defense. This year might be a little different, though, with Suggs out (a huge hit to that great defense), yet Flacco is still winning games. As for fantasy, he's literally one single specifically placed passing yard away from having 300+ passing yards AND 2 TD performances in 75% of his games this season. For comparison, Eli and Rodgers each only did that in half their games last year, while Stafford only did it in 6 games last year (38%).

Elite - A HOF player or borderline player. A player you can count on year in, year out to put up top QB stats regardless of type of offense they are working out of. The ability to win. The ability to take a game under control and carry the team on their back. The ability to adjust and correct having a bad game. Elite skill set, physical and mental attributes. IMO, Flacco only has an arm, decent brain, can win..... but that's it. He doesn't have it all. He's not elite. I also contribute his winning record more to the defense and run game. He is a good game manager. He is a QB who can have a few Pro Bowl years here and there. But he is not ELITE. He is not, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ben, Brees or Rodgers. Also possibly, Newton, Ryan, Rivers, Vick. He probably IS similar to Romo, Cutler, or Palmer. If put any of Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Eli etc... and put them on Baltimore, I do believe they would take the team where Flacco cant. Just my observation and opinion.

Interesting names you threw in there as "Elite".First 4 years in the NFL -Flacco - 13,816 passing yards, 80 passing TDs, 4 rushing (84 total), 46 INTsEli - (took out his partial rookie season, as he only started 7 games his rookie year) 13,580 passing yards, 92 passing TDs, 3 rushing (95 total), 65 INTsBrees - (again, rookie season not included, and this only includes 58 games to Eli and Flacco's 64) 12,127 passing yards, 79 passing TDs, 4 rushing (83 total), 53 INTsBrady - (again, NOT counting rookie season) 13,919 passing yards, 97 passing TDs, 2 rushing (98 total), 52 INTsBen - 11,673 passing yards, 84 passing TDs, 8 rushing (92 total), 54 INTsOk, there is no comparison to Rodgers or Peyton's first 4 years. But Flacco holds his own against the Eli's, and Brees', and Brady's and Ben's of the world when you compare their first 4 years' stats, and he looks even better if you compare wins. If Lee Evans had made that catch in last year's AFC title game, he's also stack up very nicely against these guys in Super Bowl appearances/wins.

I made the Brady comparison earlier. Brady's first 4 years starting were better overall ( more TDs, more wins, etc), and included 3 SB wins, which is why his stats were overlooked and he was placed in the upper tier early. But Flacco is comparable at that stage of their careers.The question to be answered is whether or not Flacco takes the next step and becomes the focal point of the offense and gets some deeper playoff runs. Part of the perception is he's along for the ride rather than driving the bus ( the same was often said of Brady back then ). The interesting thing to watch is if he can flip that perception and be the leader on offense.

Since Ray and Ed are getting long in the tooth, he might naturally start becoming the media focus. I think he play is good and I don't think anyone can argue that, but people throwing out "elite" already is a big stretch IMO. He has played with one of the better defenses helping him out every game since he started. Does he have the talent to lead a team far into the playoffs or win the SB if the Ravens have a marginal defense? I don't think so, at least not at this point.

I definitely think Stats are only part of the picture. Flacco can put up stats. that goes along with him having a great arm and being in an offense with nice weapons. I don't think he can go past that. And if you arn't winning and taking games over and doing all the other stuff, and just putting up stats, then you better be Dan Marino to be Elite. And yes, i do think those QBs I mentioned ahead of Flacco have more to offer than he does all around. Stats are only part of the picture. Gannon put up good stats I think when he was around. Hassel had some nice years.

 

[Shlon]

Could be a changing of the old guard, guys like Ryan & Flacco on the uptick while Brady / Brees / Manning trending down.

 

[Jaruta]

I've watched every Ravens game this season and I'll say that Flacco is just like last year in the sense that he's still inconsistent. Defenses win when they get 3 and outs. Offenses win when they get first downs. When the offense is on, he'll bring them down the field quick. It's wicked, at times. But they still don't have a feel for what they can do. Still rotate two TE's even though Boldin does what they do better than they do it. They're not getting Jones on the field enough... He's better than Romo, that's for sure.

Add: They're still not getting first downs and keeping the other offense off the field. Ray lewis looks slow. There's no pass rush.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

I watched not even a half of the football game and noticed at least 3 times that he was throwing from his back foot, but no comments. It always known that throwing from the back foot is not good thing as you can get as much velocity and accuracy on the ball. Anyone else notice this from this supposed elite/top QB? Odd that the expurts give no comment about it, but are quick to point it out with other QBs.

 

[Run It Up]

Its gonna take a while for me to consider him anything more than a QB2.

Pass Rush Rece Scor Rk G Date Age Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD Rec Yds Y/R TD TD Pts1 1 2011-09-11 26-238 BAL PIT W 35-7 * 17 29 58.6% 224 3 0 117.6 7.72 9.79 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 02 2 2011-09-18 26-245 BAL TEN L 13-26 * 15 32 46.9% 197 1 2 51.2 6.16 3.97 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 03 3 2011-09-25 26-252 BAL STL W 37-7 * 27 48 56.3% 389 3 0 103.6 8.10 9.35 8 27 3.38 0 0 0 0 0 04 4 2011-10-02 26-259 BAL NYJ W 34-17 * 10 31 32.3% 163 0 1 37.4 5.26 3.81 3 -3 -1.00 0 0 0 0 0 05 5 2011-10-16 26-273 BAL HOU W 29-14 * 20 33 60.6% 305 0 1 78.5 9.24 7.88 3 -1 -0.33 1 0 0 0 1 66 6 2011-10-24 26-281 BAL JAX L 7-12 * 21 38 55.3% 137 1 1 61.0 3.61 2.95 0 0 0 1 -8 -8.00 0 0 07 7 2011-10-30 26-287 BAL ARI W 30-27 * 31 51 60.8% 336 0 1 72.0 6.59 5.71 4 15 3.75 0 0 0 0 0 08 8 2011-11-06 26-294 BAL PIT W 23-20 * 28 47 59.6% 300 1 0 85.4 6.38 6.81 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 09 9 2011-11-13 26-301 BAL SEA L 17-22 * 29 52 55.8% 255 1 1 67.4 4.90 4.42 2 8 4.00 0 0 0 0 0 010 10 2011-11-20 26-308 BAL CIN W 31-24 * 17 27 63.0% 270 2 1 105.5 10.00 9.81 3 -2 -0.67 0 0 0 0 0 011 11 2011-11-24 26-312 BAL SFO W 16-6 * 15 23 65.2% 161 1 0 100.1 7.00 7.87 6 2 0.33 0 0 0 0 0 012 12 2011-12-04 26-322 BAL CLE W 24-10 * 10 23 43.5% 158 0 0 66.9 6.87 6.87 4 -1 -0.25 0 0 0 0 0 013 13 2011-12-11 26-329 BAL IND W 24-10 * 23 31 74.2% 227 2 1 102.5 7.32 7.16 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 014 14 2011-12-18 26-336 BAL SDG L 14-34 * 23 34 67.6% 226 2 2 81.3 6.65 5.18 1 12 12.00 0 0 0 0 0 015 15 2011-12-24 26-342 BAL CLE W 20-14 * 11 24 45.8% 132 2 1 73.6 5.50 5.29 4 30 7.50 0 0 0 0 0 016 16 2012-01-01 26-350 BAL CIN W 24-16 * 15 19 78.9% 130 1 0 112.7 6.84 7.89 1 1 1.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 Games 312 542 57.6% 3610 20 12 80.9 6.66 6.40 39 88 2.26 1 1 -8 -8.00 0 1 6
10 Games with one or no tds, 7 games with less than 200 yards.

 

[lbouchard]

Its gonna take a while for me to consider him anything more than a QB2.

                                              Pass                                        Rush              Rece              Scor    Rk    G       Date    Age  Tm  Opp  Result GS  Cmp Att  Cmp%  Yds TD Int  Rate   Y/A AY/A  Att Yds   Y/A TD  Rec Yds   Y/R TD   TD Pts1     1 2011-09-11 26-238 BAL  PIT  W 35-7  *   17  29 58.6%  224  3   0 117.6  7.72 9.79    0   0        0    0   0        0    0   02     2 2011-09-18 26-245 BAL  TEN L 13-26  *   15  32 46.9%  197  1   2  51.2  6.16 3.97    0   0        0    0   0        0    0   03     3 2011-09-25 26-252 BAL  STL  W 37-7  *   27  48 56.3%  389  3   0 103.6  8.10 9.35    8  27  3.38  0    0   0        0    0   04     4 2011-10-02 26-259 BAL  NYJ W 34-17  *   10  31 32.3%  163  0   1  37.4  5.26 3.81    3  -3 -1.00  0    0   0        0    0   05     5 2011-10-16 26-273 BAL  HOU W 29-14  *   20  33 60.6%  305  0   1  78.5  9.24 7.88    3  -1 -0.33  1    0   0        0    1   66     6 2011-10-24 26-281 BAL  JAX  L 7-12  *   21  38 55.3%  137  1   1  61.0  3.61 2.95    0   0        0    1  -8 -8.00  0    0   07     7 2011-10-30 26-287 BAL  ARI W 30-27  *   31  51 60.8%  336  0   1  72.0  6.59 5.71    4  15  3.75  0    0   0        0    0   08     8 2011-11-06 26-294 BAL  PIT W 23-20  *   28  47 59.6%  300  1   0  85.4  6.38 6.81    0   0        0    0   0        0    0   09     9 2011-11-13 26-301 BAL  SEA L 17-22  *   29  52 55.8%  255  1   1  67.4  4.90 4.42    2   8  4.00  0    0   0        0    0   010   10 2011-11-20 26-308 BAL  CIN W 31-24  *   17  27 63.0%  270  2   1 105.5 10.00 9.81    3  -2 -0.67  0    0   0        0    0   011   11 2011-11-24 26-312 BAL  SFO  W 16-6  *   15  23 65.2%  161  1   0 100.1  7.00 7.87    6   2  0.33  0    0   0        0    0   012   12 2011-12-04 26-322 BAL  CLE W 24-10  *   10  23 43.5%  158  0   0  66.9  6.87 6.87    4  -1 -0.25  0    0   0        0    0   013   13 2011-12-11 26-329 BAL  IND W 24-10  *   23  31 74.2%  227  2   1 102.5  7.32 7.16    0   0        0    0   0        0    0   014   14 2011-12-18 26-336 BAL  SDG L 14-34  *   23  34 67.6%  226  2   2  81.3  6.65 5.18    1  12 12.00  0    0   0        0    0   015   15 2011-12-24 26-342 BAL  CLE W 20-14  *   11  24 45.8%  132  2   1  73.6  5.50 5.29    4  30  7.50  0    0   0        0    0   016   16 2012-01-01 26-350 BAL  CIN W 24-16  *   15  19 78.9%  130  1   0 112.7  6.84 7.89    1   1  1.00  0    0   0        0    0   0          16 Games                             312 542 57.6% 3610 20  12  80.9  6.66 6.40   39  88  2.26  1    1  -8 -8.00  0    1   6

10 Games with one or no tds, 7 games with less than 200 yards.

Bro just admit you were wrong and move on.

 

[Run It Up]

Bro just admit you were wrong and move on.

Plenty of time left in the season, I dont have anything to prove, own him if you want. His decision making hasnt gotten any better, Torrey Smith has stepped up, Pitta has proved to be worth his weight in the passing game, cant wait to see his stat line at the end of the year. But I suspect it will be the same as the previous 4 years, with more attempts lower completion percentage and about a 2/2.5:1 td int ratio (QB2 territory).

 

[chinawildman]

All this elite talk is media garbage. The players/coaches all talk about letting your play do the talking for you. But the networks want to pester the athletes into proclaiming their "eliteness". Bottom line is, nobody should really care.

 

[fredsavage]

Fact is the term ELITE refers to skill relative to one's peers. Fantasy and real life are two separate arguments obviously. As far as the eyeball test goes IRL there are probably at least 15 QBs I would want helming my team over Flacco. Eyeball test does not favor Joe Flacco unless you mean how far he can out-throw Torry.In fantasy he might crack the top 10 but maybe not, and he's mainly considered because he has perhaps the best receiving back in the league and three star receivers (Pitta budding, Smith fully arrived, and Bolding aging but still a performer).

Elite? No.