Four wides all the time (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

1.All year long, the Patriots have looked the best ever at running the spread offense. (Note to haters: this is NOT another New England thread.)

2. On Thursday, Green Bay went four wide on several occasions and Farve looked like Brady with pinpoint accuracy. (I haven't seen enough of other Packer games to know whether or not they've been doing this for several weeks now.)

3. College football this year has been dominated by the success of spread offense teams (Missouri, West Virginia, Florida, Oregon, Illinois, etc.)

I am no football expert and am admittedly weak in discussing complex X's and O's. Is this spread offense simply superior to anything that has come before it? Is football going to be a less physical, more strategic game as a result? Is the fullback a dead or dying position? What is the best way for defenses to combat this, and how it will it change what you want in drafting defensive players in the future?

Please, those of you with some expertise on this subject contribute and educate the rest of us on the spread offense: how to win with it, and how to beat it.

 

[FavreCo]

Green Bay has been running it for a couple of weeks. It's tough to stop with sure handed WR's. But you have to have a great QB to run it. A hack would never be able to run it. Favre read a blitz Thursday and all the guy could do is run free straight at Favre and watch the ball leave before he could even get close.

 

[GregR_2]

There's a decent write up on some of the strengths of it over on ESPN by Bob Davie, though he's focusing more on the college versions.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1443120.html

 

[crowe1130]

Green Bay has been running it for a couple of weeks. It's tough to stop with sure handed WR's. But you have to have a great QB to run it. A hack would never be able to run it. Favre read a blitz Thursday and all the guy could do is run free straight at Favre and watch the ball leave before he could even get close.

The Pats may buck the trend as a result of their talent, but isn't this just a recycling of the "run and shoot" offense that has historically had very bad luck in the cold weather playoffs?

 

[Modog814]

I am by no means an expert or a coach, but this is my first intuition:

You beat it by getting pressure on the QB (easier said than done sometimes) and having the cornerbacks up playing physical against the WR's to disrupt any timing. However, if the cornerback tries to bump the WR and misses, it can lead to some very long plays. Spreading the offense also opens up delays and draws for the RB.

I do believe that their will always be a role for the fullback. Short yardage and goal line mostly. West Virginia i believe has a FB that plays a pretty decent size role in their offense. He's not always in there but when he is, he makes the most of it.

The problem with the spread offense is when the other team is successful at pressuring the QB without (or with) blitzing. It opens up the QB to taking a pounding because of the minimal pass protection. If he's not quick getting rid of the rock, it's trouble (This is why CB's need to bump the recievers) Just my

 

[Workhorse]

The problem with the spread offense typically had been you often times have trouble keeping your quarterback from getting killed on blitzes since there's rarely much help with TE/RB combos staying in to pick up extra rushers. You've got to have a really solid and disciplined O-Line to run it effectively.

 

[Jene Bramel]

1. Put your most athletic defenders on the field.

The spread offense is designed to stretch the field in all directions and create running lanes by moving defenders out of the box. We discussed this in the PHI gameplan thread when considering the 3-3-5 nickel package. Get your quickest and athletic players on the field to combat the stretch aspect of the offense.

2. Prevent mismatches wherever possible.

Put your best defender on the other team's best reciever. If there's still a mismatch, double cover in that area -- by zone or man with safety help over the top. The Eagles did this last night as well.

3. Isolate a mismatch on the offensive line and blitz at it -- overload that area where possible or move your best pass rusher over the weakest pass blocker.

The Eagles did this last night, too, frequently running an overloaded six man rush at one side of the Pats OL.

4. Disguise your coverage wherever possible.

It's very easy for the quarterback to determine your coverage and call a play at the line designed to create the biggest mismatch. It's easier said than done, but if you can move your FS around and use a good mix of zone and man concepts with help, you can help your defensive pass rush and make it difficult to exploit those mismatches.

 

[Spartans Rule]

The problem with the spread offense typically had been you often times have trouble keeping your quarterback from getting killed on blitzes since there's rarely much help with TE/RB combos staying in to pick up extra rushers. You've got to have a really solid and disciplined O-Line to run it effectively.

For an example of this problem, see the Detroit Lions.

 

[FavreCo]

Green Bay has been running it for a couple of weeks. It's tough to stop with sure handed WR's. But you have to have a great QB to run it. A hack would never be able to run it. Favre read a blitz Thursday and all the guy could do is run free straight at Favre and watch the ball leave before he could even get close.

The Pats may buck the trend as a result of their talent, but isn't this just a recycling of the "run and shoot" offense that has historically had very bad luck in the cold weather playoffs?

Looks like it but with vastly superior QBs. That being said, you better have the backup plan in place if the weather is crappy.

 

[FavreCo]

I am by no means an expert or a coach, but this is my first intuition:You beat it by getting pressure on the QB (easier said than done sometimes) and having the cornerbacks up playing physical against the WR's to disrupt any timing. However, if the cornerback tries to bump the WR and misses, it can lead to some very long plays. Spreading the offense also opens up delays and draws for the RB. I do believe that their will always be a role for the fullback. Short yardage and goal line mostly. West Virginia i believe has a FB that plays a pretty decent size role in their offense. He's not always in there but when he is, he makes the most of it. The problem with the spread offense is when the other team is successful at pressuring the QB without (or with) blitzing. It opens up the QB to taking a pounding because of the minimal pass protection. If he's not quick getting rid of the rock, it's trouble (This is why CB's need to bump the recievers) Just my

Your 2 cents was well spent.

 

[FavreCo]

The problem with the spread offense typically had been you often times have trouble keeping your quarterback from getting killed on blitzes since there's rarely much help with TE/RB combos staying in to pick up extra rushers. You've got to have a really solid and disciplined O-Line to run it effectively.

For an example of this problem, see the Detroit Lions.

Martz stupidity cancels out any attempt at a spread offense.

 

[Pskov1420]

Green Bay has been running it for a couple of weeks. It's tough to stop with sure handed WR's. But you have to have a great QB to run it. A hack would never be able to run it. Favre read a blitz Thursday and all the guy could do is run free straight at Favre and watch the ball leave before he could even get close.

The Pats may buck the trend as a result of their talent, but isn't this just a recycling of the "run and shoot" offense that has historically had very bad luck in the cold weather playoffs?

Run and shoot was about consistently sending 3 or 4 guys on deep patterns, trying to isolate them one on one against nickel and dime backs and burning them for the deep play. The spread which the Pats and Packers have been running this year is more about hitting guys on quick slants, curls, screens, short in and out routes etc. while the other WRs set up blocks upfield creating good yards after the catch. With a good, accurate QB who can read a defence and a deep enough WR core it is very difficult to stop. Your completion percentage is ridiculously high because with 4 or 5 options on each play a good QB will almost always find an open guy and short routes make for easier throws and catches. If your WR blocking is good (Green Bay are exceptional in this aspect of the offense) then maybe a third of the time you can break that short 6-10 yard catch into a 30-40 yard play. Of course if the defence decides to press up on the line of scrimmage and play bump and run to try to knock the receivers off their short routes then the QB can audible a guy or two deep and burn the defence for a big play, as Moss and Jennings have done more than a few times this season.The bottom line is that if you have 4 good WRs, a good pass blocking O-line so you don't need to rely on having men back to block and an exceptional QB it is very, very hard to stop. But when you put it that way it doesn't exactly sound like rocket science does it?

 

[Max Power]

I think Allstot was the last of his kind. I am shocked some teams carry more than 2 FBs.

10 years ago I could rattle of at least a Dozen quality FBs, now I am lucky to even know a dozen.

 

[DawnBTVS]

The Pats may buck the trend as a result of their talent, but isn't this just a recycling of the "run and shoot" offense that has historically had very bad luck in the cold weather playoffs?

Houston Oilers (1989): Went 2-2 in Weeks 13-16 and lost the Wildcard game.Houston Oilers (1990): Went 3-2 in Weeks 13-17 and lost the Wildcard game.

Houston Oilers (1991): Went 2-3 in Weeks 13-17 and won their Wildcard game. Lost the divisional game.

Houston Oilers (1992): Went 4-1 in Weeks 13-17 and lost the Wildcard game (It is notable that they were up 35-3 at one point. So the R&S offense was doing its job)

Atlanta Falcons (1994): Went 2-3 in Weeks 13-17.

Atlanta Falcons (1995): Went 2-3 in Weeks 13-17 and lost the Wildcard game.

Detroit Lions (1991): Went 5-0 in Weeks 13-17 and won their Divisional game. Lost in the NFC Championship.

Detroit Lions (1993): Went 3-2 in Weeks 13-17 and lost the Wildcard game.

While they did lose games in the playoffs, they also had quite a bit of success at making the playoffs in the first place, which is key. I read somewhere that the Indianapolis Colts were also using bits of the Run and Shoot in their offense in the early 90's and they went at least .500 in 3 of 4 seasons (including making it to the AFC Championship game) from 1992 - 1995.

June Jones only lasted 3 seasons with Atlanta, where he went 19-29. Mike Holmgren, under the successful and accepted West Coast Offense upon joining Seattle made the playoffs once, losing the Wildcard game and went 31-33 in his first 4 seasons.

Personally, I love the spread offense/run and shoot at Hawai'i because they are just fun to watch and am a proponent of the success they can have if they get good stability on the offensive line.

It's not surprising to see the success that the Patriots are having with the spread offense. Charlie Weis was running 4 Wide and even ran the run and shoot at the high school level when he was in between pro jobs, so he definitely had experience with that kind of offense. I'd be curious to see how many times teams run the spread offense (i.e. Cincinnati, Indianapolis, New Orleans, etc.) in a game and whether it grows week by week or not.

 

[massraider]

With the blocking the Pats have gotten this season, they could be running two-tight end formations, and you could easily be asking if double-tights was the wave of the future. I just think it is faster for the Pats to score points in 4-wides, and they have great WR's, so that's what they've been doing. Their line has been exceptional.

There has always been spread offenses in college, at least as far back as I go. Mouse Davis didn't set the NFL on fire, so I'm not too worried about the 4-wides being the future. Sooner or later, you have to run the ball. For that, generally, you need tight ends.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Blocking and QB are paramount. Oregon is a perfect example. Dixon, good QB in spread, has Oregon primed for Rose Bowl and or National Championship game. Dixon gets hurt, in comes back up QB. Oregon looks like a low end PAC10 team. Perhaps its not that simple, but without excellent QB play, spread offense = the suck.

 

[stevegamer]

As well as the Patriots & the Packers are running the spread offense this year, they can turn it up a notch, if they can get the kind of RB that can run effectively and split out wide to cause even more mismatches. Putting Tomlinson or Westbrook on one of those teams would be downright scary - see what the Eagles did last night with some lesser WR's (excepting Curtis as a #2) & a (normally) lesser QB.

You get all the goodness of the passing game, with a credible running threat in the lineup. Note how when Maroney was in, the Pats were generally running.

I also think this may bode well for Colt Brennan's draft prospects.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

As a Houston Oiler fan back in the day, it is my opinion that you need to be able to bring in a fullback or some tight ends at certain times. It's OK to run for certain matchups and even long periods of time, but it can beat up your QB as well b/c you're at minimum protection all the time. The biggest problem, though, is playing with a lead. If you're married to the strategy, it becomes difficult to protect a lead b/c it's not suited to running clock. Texas Tech could have easily blown that game against Oklahoma a few weeks ago. They did nothing in the 4th quarter, but didn't run any clock either. They were lucky that the Sooners failed to cash in on a couple of their possessions. My Oilers suffered the worst comeback loss in history to Bills a long time back. They had a 35-3 lead in the 3rd quarter and quit playing. Their inability to shift to run-first attack and string together a few first downs with the clock running helped Buffalo immensely. It's fine for New England and Green Bay to run a lot of 4 and 5 wides, but they need to be able to bring in the TEs and FBs sometimes as well. I'd only worry about them if they get rid of all the TEs and FBs on the roster. It used to drive me nuts when the Oilers were in short-yardage (especially at the goalline) and still had 4 WRs out there. It's great as a dimension within your offense, but if that's all you do eventually you'll be in trouble. Your offense needs to be diverse enough and have the personnel to do other things.

 

[massraider]

I also think this may bode well for Colt Brennan's draft prospects.

Somewhere, Kliff Klingsbury stares at his phone with renewed intensity.

 

[Incogneto]

I also think this may bode well for Colt Brennan's draft prospects.

Somewhere, Kliff Klingsbury stares at his phone with renewed intensity.

He's too busy morning the loss of the grey cup. He is playing 3rd String for the Wpg Blue Bombers of the CFL.

 

[Chase Stuart]

As a Houston Oiler fan back in the day, it is my opinion that you need to be able to bring in a fullback or some tight ends at certain times. It's OK to run for certain matchups and even long periods of time, but it can beat up your QB as well b/c you're at minimum protection all the time. The biggest problem, though, is playing with a lead. If you're married to the strategy, it becomes difficult to protect a lead b/c it's not suited to running clock. Texas Tech could have easily blown that game against Oklahoma a few weeks ago. They did nothing in the 4th quarter, but didn't run any clock either. They were lucky that the Sooners failed to cash in on a couple of their possessions. My Oilers suffered the worst comeback loss in history to Bills a long time back. They had a 35-3 lead in the 3rd quarter and quit playing. Their inability to shift to run-first attack and string together a few first downs with the clock running helped Buffalo immensely. It's fine for New England and Green Bay to run a lot of 4 and 5 wides, but they need to be able to bring in the TEs and FBs sometimes as well. I'd only worry about them if they get rid of all the TEs and FBs on the roster. It used to drive me nuts when the Oilers were in short-yardage (especially at the goalline) and still had 4 WRs out there. It's great as a dimension within your offense, but if that's all you do eventually you'll be in trouble. Your offense needs to be diverse enough and have the personnel to do other things.

The big problem with the high octage, 4-WR offense is that it's not a very good offense when you have the lead. Similarly, a power rushing attack isn't a very good offense when you're losing. Up by 14, a team with a great rushing attack almost never loses. Down by 14, a team with a great passing offense is always in the game.

 

[Liquid Tension]

1. Put your most athletic defenders on the field.

The spread offense is designed to stretch the field in all directions and create running lanes by moving defenders out of the box. We discussed this in the PHI gameplan thread when considering the 3-3-5 nickel package. Get your quickest and athletic players on the field to combat the stretch aspect of the offense.

2. Prevent mismatches wherever possible.

Put your best defender on the other team's best reciever. If there's still a mismatch, double cover in that area -- by zone or man with safety help over the top. The Eagles did this last night as well.

3. Isolate a mismatch on the offensive line and blitz at it -- overload that area where possible or move your best pass rusher over the weakest pass blocker.

The Eagles did this last night, too, frequently running an overloaded six man rush at one side of the Pats OL.

4. Disguise your coverage wherever possible.

It's very easy for the quarterback to determine your coverage and call a play at the line designed to create the biggest mismatch. It's easier said than done, but if you can move your FS around and use a good mix of zone and man concepts with help, you can help your defensive pass rush and make it difficult to exploit those mismatches.

 

[mbuehner]

Ok, i've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. The spread offense works, but (like everybody above notes) you need a really accurate QB to do it, and receivers that run great routes.

But its much more than that. The number 1 thing that offense demands is discpline.

-It starts up front- the defense is going to overload the line so each guy is required to take care of his assignment. The one thing that can break this offense immediately is a blitzer or tackle coming loose up the middle. That cant happen. Someone WILL be unaccounted for on the outside, but the ball has to be out before he can impact the play. The QB will need a space to step up in the pocket and deliver the throw with strength. The line needs to take care of their assignments without trying to do too much to help out or get out position- if they need to block longer than about 3 seconds its not their fault, your start seeing holds at that point which you cant hang on the line.

-The QB as stated must deliver the throw to the correct reciever (which depends on the coverage). Yes, he must be very accurate, but he also must throw with strength. Ball MUST come out on the 3rd or 5th step (depending on the play)- this is the discipline. Most NFL QBs will hold the ball and try to make a play- thats not how this offense works. You get the ball out in rythem. You don't see Tom Brady sliding around the pocket much less bootlegging out very often. He sets and throws to a spot his guy can catch it and nobody else can. This takes pressure off his line and lets them feel confident in creating his pocket without in the back of their minds worrying he will hold the ball an extra second and get creamed by the guy running free that if you juuuust edge over you might get a chip on. You do that and the guy you are SUPPOSED to be handling gets a hand in the QBs face and everything goes wrong.

-WRs must get off blocks and run precise, disciplined routs predicated on the defense. The hot reciever on a blitz must be ready to catch the ball immediately after the snap and he must knife his way to his spot and take a hit. Wes Welker is great at that. WRs have to block downfield- yac's are important and downfield blocking is what makes them.

How do you stop it? Well IF you can run this offense you've already proven your offense is REALLY good. So its not easy. You have to find a way to get immediate pressure up the middle and disrupt the QB- thats the key. A dominent defensive tackle can do that, nothing like an unstoppable bullsrush collapsing the pocket to break up a quick pass. Once the QB cant step up into his throws he has a real problem, because as I said if he holds the ball there will be unblocked pass rushers closing in. The D-line should be looking to take get to the space the QB steps into- not to get to the QB. You get a hand in his face or in his throwing lanes and he cant deliver a precise strike. Containment isnt an issue, collapsing the front is everything.

Downfield you need to HIT the WRs when the catch the ball, and hit them hard. Even if they are on the ground. They need to fear going over the middle. Dont let them get out of bounds, every catch needs to be punished. If you take just a quarter step out of their route or a quick glance at the strong safety they wont be where they need to be, and they wont catch the ball in stride. I cant stress enough that even if the WR goes to the carpet after making his first down catch over the middle, you need to unload on him.

This is exactly the way the Patriots beat the vaunted Rams in their first Superbowl btw.

 

[timschochet]

Great commentar so far. I'm buying into the Colt Brennan assessment. He is amazingly accurate throwing the ball. He could be the steal of the entire draft.

 

[Bri]

Ok, i've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. The spread offense works, but (like everybody above notes) you need a really accurate QB to do it, and receivers that run great routes. But its much more than that. The number 1 thing that offense demands is discpline. -It starts up front- the defense is going to overload the line so each guy is required to take care of his assignment. The one thing that can break this offense immediately is a blitzer or tackle coming loose up the middle. That cant happen. Someone WILL be unaccounted for on the outside, but the ball has to be out before he can impact the play. The QB will need a space to step up in the pocket and deliver the throw with strength. The line needs to take care of their assignments without trying to do too much to help out or get out position- if they need to block longer than about 3 seconds its not their fault, your start seeing holds at that point which you cant hang on the line.-The QB as stated must deliver the throw to the correct reciever (which depends on the coverage). Yes, he must be very accurate, but he also must throw with strength. Ball MUST come out on the 3rd or 5th step (depending on the play)- this is the discipline. Most NFL QBs will hold the ball and try to make a play- thats not how this offense works. You get the ball out in rythem. You don't see Tom Brady sliding around the pocket much less bootlegging out very often. He sets and throws to a spot his guy can catch it and nobody else can. This takes pressure off his line and lets them feel confident in creating his pocket without in the back of their minds worrying he will hold the ball an extra second and get creamed by the guy running free that if you juuuust edge over you might get a chip on. You do that and the guy you are SUPPOSED to be handling gets a hand in the QBs face and everything goes wrong.-WRs must get off blocks and run precise, disciplined routs predicated on the defense. The hot reciever on a blitz must be ready to catch the ball immediately after the snap and he must knife his way to his spot and take a hit. Wes Welker is great at that. WRs have to block downfield- yac's are important and downfield blocking is what makes them.How do you stop it? Well IF you can run this offense you've already proven your offense is REALLY good. So its not easy. You have to find a way to get immediate pressure up the middle and disrupt the QB- thats the key. A dominent defensive tackle can do that, nothing like an unstoppable bullsrush collapsing the pocket to break up a quick pass. Once the QB cant step up into his throws he has a real problem, because as I said if he holds the ball there will be unblocked pass rushers closing in. The D-line should be looking to take get to the space the QB steps into- not to get to the QB. You get a hand in his face or in his throwing lanes and he cant deliver a precise strike. Containment isnt an issue, collapsing the front is everything.Downfield you need to HIT the WRs when the catch the ball, and hit them hard. Even if they are on the ground. They need to fear going over the middle. Dont let them get out of bounds, every catch needs to be punished. If you take just a quarter step out of their route or a quick glance at the strong safety they wont be where they need to be, and they wont catch the ball in stride. I cant stress enough that even if the WR goes to the carpet after making his first down catch over the middle, you need to unload on him.This is exactly the way the Patriots beat the vaunted Rams in their first Superbowl btw.

Nothing in this post is different in a 4 WR offense vs other setsRunning a 4 WR offense does not prove you are really good. The Bears years ago ran 4 and 5 WR sets pretty poorly

 

[Jene Bramel]

The big problem with the high octage, 4-WR offense is that it's not a very good offense when you have the lead. Similarly, a power rushing attack isn't a very good offense when you're losing. Up by 14, a team with a great rushing attack almost never loses. Down by 14, a team with a great passing offense is always in the game.

It shouldn't be difficult to run out of the spread offense, provided you have offensive linemen that can run block as well as they theoretically pass block. The offensive set stretches the field and provides alleys. Often, pro spread sets will use a TE in a three-by-one formation to help block on run plays. It looks like five on six (in the box) but is really closer to six-on-six, with plenty of space to move because there are relatively fewer players in the box.

 

[stevegamer]

The big problem with the high octage, 4-WR offense is that it's not a very good offense when you have the lead. Similarly, a power rushing attack isn't a very good offense when you're losing. Up by 14, a team with a great rushing attack almost never loses. Down by 14, a team with a great passing offense is always in the game.

It shouldn't be difficult to run out of the spread offense, provided you have offensive linemen that can run block as well as they theoretically pass block. The offensive set stretches the field and provides alleys. Often, pro spread sets will use a TE in a three-by-one formation to help block on run plays. It looks like five on six (in the box) but is really closer to six-on-six, with plenty of space to move because there are relatively fewer players in the box.

You also want a running back who is a threat in the passign game who can also run, so that you don't tip off the D when you plan to run. Maroney is not that back.

 

[montanagold]

Actually, the run-n-shoot, pole cat, or spread offense... originally was designed for teams that lacked overall talent to compete with superior teams. Offensive players... had to have semi decent speed and hands.. and historically almost no college QBs running this offense have transitioned well to the NFL.

The original offense... relied on the WRs running to the OPEN spot in the field.. there was a simple system of reads of simply running the opposite way from the defenders momentum.

It's more complex than that... but, wrinkles have been added over time. It spreads and bends the defense cover scheme. Which is why it's really effective.

 

[chris1969]

I can't see the spread offense being consistently effective long term for one reason. Injuries. If you want to run 4 WR's all the time, you better have 6 that your comfortable with playing. WR's with speed pull hammies all the time. The defense is gonna be playing these guys physical at the line at that takes it's toll over a 20 week play-off season. Also when your guys have to go out and make their cuts in December at Lambeau either they'll slip and get hurt or they'll slip and blow their timing and your QB will get hurt. Speaking of your QB getting hurt, all it takes is a lineman blowing a block once and your QB can get killed. There is nobody in the backfield to pick up the blitz. Can it work for a season? Yes, if your lucky. 2 seasons? Maybe if your really lucky. 3 seasons? Forget about it.

 

[FavreCo]

I can't see the spread offense being consistently effective long term for one reason. Injuries. If you want to run 4 WR's all the time, you better have 6 that your comfortable with playing. WR's with speed pull hammies all the time. The defense is gonna be playing these guys physical at the line at that takes it's toll over a 20 week play-off season. Also when your guys have to go out and make their cuts in December at Lambeau either they'll slip and get hurt or they'll slip and blow their timing and your QB will get hurt. Speaking of your QB getting hurt, all it takes is a lineman blowing a block once and your QB can get killed. There is nobody in the backfield to pick up the blitz. Can it work for a season? Yes, if your lucky. 2 seasons? Maybe if your really lucky. 3 seasons? Forget about it.

On the other hand, Driver got injured last week when they changed from the 4 WR set to a normal 2 WR set with Driver close to the RT. He got his ankle rolled up on the play trying to block.

 

[montanagold]

Well... there are reason's why it's even more effective. You can have less talented lineman because they are essentially pass blocking most of the time. Which everyone know's that is easier to do. Start adding in some play action and wrinkles... and having already spread the field out 4 wide.. and that aids the running game. You RB has to be a good blocker.

Your wr's can be average players. But, yes... look back at some Run N Shoot rosters and they had a good # of WRs.

 

[nygiants56]

Green Bay has been running it for a couple of weeks. It's tough to stop with sure handed WR's. But you have to have a great QB to run it. A hack would never be able to run it. Favre read a blitz Thursday and all the guy could do is run free straight at Favre and watch the ball leave before he could even get close.

The Pats may buck the trend as a result of their talent, but isn't this just a recycling of the "run and shoot" offense that has historically had very bad luck in the cold weather playoffs?

ture.correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Warren Moon and the Oilers run 4-wides and run-n-shoot style offense the year they lost to buffalo in the game they led 34-3 at one point..they were a fantastic team to watch, lots of talent, tons of passing..not sure it was purely a 4-wide offense, but it was a thing of beauty! and they played well in the cold in December..same with Minnesota with R. Cunningham under center! wow, was that a good offense.

 

[montanagold]

It used to be very in vogue. If I can remember right... the following teams ran it: Minnesota, Atlanta, Houston, Cleveland.. Detroit... pretty much got killed by the zone blitz. But, there's new wrinkles now. Like I said, the game has changed so much it's not even funny.