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Free healthcare Free education (1 Viewer)

I don’t like simple arguments for complex subjects. And Rambling Wreck is right. If the government pays for these things rather than private individuals, they will still not be free; they still have to be paid for, in the form of taxation. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a bad idea, but we should be honest about what it is we’re talking about. 

 
With regard to the education part: 

My daughter applied to 4 University of California campuses, with tuitions averaging around $35,000 a year. 

She applied to Chapman University, a private university, with a tuition of $65,000 a year. 

She applied to San Diego State, Cal State Long Beach, and Cal State Fullerton, with tuitions around $20,000 a year. 

Which of these are to be covered under this proposal? All of them? All of the public universities? Only some of the public universities? What exactly would be the plan here? 

 
timschochet said:
With regard to the education part: 

My daughter applied to 4 University of California campuses, with tuitions averaging around $35,000 a year. 

She applied to Chapman University, a private university, with a tuition of $65,000 a year. 

She applied to San Diego State, Cal State Long Beach, and Cal State Fullerton, with tuitions around $20,000 a year. 

Which of these are to be covered under this proposal? All of them? All of the public universities? Only some of the public universities? What exactly would be the plan here? 
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Dang.  I thought California universities were afforded and a relative bargain for in state residents compare to other state's in state tuition?  Did that change one the last decade?

 
BassNBrew said:
Dang.  I thought California universities were afforded and a relative bargain for in state residents compare to other state's in state tuition?  Did that change one the last decade?
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I don’t know; I’ve no idea what other state tuitions are like. 

 
timschochet said:
BassNBrew said:
Dang.  I thought California universities were afforded and a relative bargain for in state residents compare to other state's in state tuition?  Did that change one the last decade?
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I don’t know; I’ve no idea what other state tuitions are like. 
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$25k for Chapel Hill (UNC)

$24k for NC State

$23K ($40k out of state) for VA Tech

That's tuition, room and board, and fees.  You stated tuition, but does that include room and board?

 
BassNBrew said:
$25k for Chapel Hill (UNC)

$24k for NC State

$23K ($40k out of state) for VA Tech

That's tuition, room and board, and fees.  You stated tuition, but does that include room and board?
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Yeah. 

Everything is more expensive here so no surprise. But it still begs the question- what would the government pay for? All of it? 

 
I agree that more public money should be spent on making Health Care and Education available to more people but there are only two ways to do it.  Either we take in more money (taxes) or we spend less on other things.  It's easy to say lets raise the taxes on the top 1% or higher but I'm not in that group so it seems disingenuous.  I do think that reducing spending on the military and  "fighting terrorist" would not be terribly detrimental to our country and that the money would produce more benefit if it were used on healthcare and education.

In my mind the cost of your education shouldn't be more than 1 - 1.5 times your expected first year salary from the job you get with your degree.  I went to a state university in the late 90's for Mechanical engineering.  With out scholorships and in state tuition was about 10K per year and my starting salary was about 45K.   My ex went to med school and her total bill was (6*30K) and she makes ~185K as a surgeon now.  What I don't get is the folks who spend $200K+  on a liberal arts degree to make significantly less than that.  It just doesn't make sense unless you have the money to burn.

 
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timschochet said:
Yeah. 

Everything is more expensive here so no surprise. But it still begs the question- what would the government pay for? All of it? 
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Which gov't?  Both state and feds play a component in funding college.  Let's assume CA schools are better, if the Feds are picking up the tab do kids in New Hampshire have an equal right to attend UCLA for free?

 
abbottjamesr said:
I agree that more public money should be spent on making Health Care and Education available to more people but there are only two ways to do it.  Either we take in more money (taxes) or we spend less on other things.  It's easy to say lets raise the taxes on the top 1% or higher but I'm not in that group so it seems disingenuous.  I do think that reducing spending on the military and  "fighting terrorist" would not be terribly detrimental to our country and that the money would produce more benefit if it were used on healthcare and education.

In my mind the cost of your education shouldn't be more than 1 - 1.5 times your expected first year salary from the job you get with your degree.  I went to a state university in the late 90's for Mechanical engineering.  With out scholorships and in state tuition was about 10K per year and my starting salary was about 45K.   My ex went to med school and her total bill was (6*30K) and she makes ~185K as a surgeon now.  What I don't get is the folks who spend $200K+  on a liberal arts degree to make significantly less than that.  It just doesn't make sense unless you have the money to burn.
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Though the federal government now funnels more money to higher education as a whole, states still supply a greater share of funding to public universities. Public colleges educate 68 percent of all students in the U.S., and in 2013 they received an average of 21 percent of their funding from state funds and 16 percent of their funding from the federal government. Tuition and fees also accounted for 21 percent of public university revenue.
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Looks like attendees are only paying 21% of the cost now.  

 
timschochet said:
With regard to the education part: 

My daughter applied to 4 University of California campuses, with tuitions averaging around $35,000 a year. 

She applied to Chapman University, a private university, with a tuition of $65,000 a year. 

She applied to San Diego State, Cal State Long Beach, and Cal State Fullerton, with tuitions around $20,000 a year. 

Which of these are to be covered under this proposal? All of them? All of the public universities? Only some of the public universities? What exactly would be the plan here? 
Click to expand...
I think community colleges, tech schools, and certain state schools that offer a partial/full scholarship to drive the cost down to a certain amount, should be covered.  We need kids to be smart today to compete with other nations, but writing a blank check for $100,000 is ridiculous (it would be much more than that when the government gets involved).  Lots of companies today help finish tuition as well, and more of that should be pushed.  

 
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timschochet said:
With regard to the education part: 

My daughter applied to 4 University of California campuses, with tuitions averaging around $35,000 a year. 

She applied to Chapman University, a private university, with a tuition of $65,000 a year. 

She applied to San Diego State, Cal State Long Beach, and Cal State Fullerton, with tuitions around $20,000 a year. 

Which of these are to be covered under this proposal? All of them? All of the public universities? Only some of the public universities? What exactly would be the plan here? 
Click to expand...
 https://thinkprogress.org/how-obama-could-make-college-free-for-everyone-without-spending-a-dime-94281146e4b5/

Public only

Tuition capped at public schools if they receive funding. 

 
timschochet said:
I don’t like simple arguments for complex subjects. And Rambling Wreck is right. If the government pays for these things rather than private individuals, they will still not be free; they still have to be paid for, in the form of taxation. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a bad idea, but we should be honest about what it is we’re talking about. 
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We are arguably the richest country in the world and we choose to fund the military industrial complex to the detriment of these other issues. Sometimes it really is that simple.

 
dschuler said:
I think community colleges, tech schools, and certain state schools that offer a partial/full scholarship to drive the cost down to a certain amount, should be covered.  We need kids to be smart today to compete with other nations, but writing a blank check for $100,000 is ridiculous (it would be much more than that when the government gets involved).  Lots of companies today help finish tuition as well, and more of that should be pushed.  
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This is a standard conservative truism that simply isn’t true (and I used to believe it). You know what drives prices sky high?  Government providing incentives and private industry raking in profit (see also housing bubble, healthcare bubble). 

Governments all over the world deliver health care far cheaper than our private system. 

 
If it's government funded, what happens when there's a government shutdown? No school? No healthcare? No free lunches for school kids?

 
wikkidpissah said:
2-3 years of public service each in exchange
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It doesn’t even have to be military.  It could be working in a nursing home, habitat for humanity, or something similar.  A sense of accomplishment is a powerful tool to set someone on the right track in life. 

 
the rover said:
I’d be for this
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I understand how the people feel who wonder if we should have always and ever tried to keep govt from being an answer in peoples lives, but i've thought about it for 50+ yrs and i dont see us going back. But it all MUST be based in citizenship. It is truly unfortunate that more Americans than not live their entire lives without participating in our nation's welfare or honor - it's what has reduced our social & political manners to the juvenile level at which they currently stand. So, if we are to make part of the ride free, we must know that we asked the recipients to be citizens first.

 
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Sabertooth said:
Meh, we got plenty of money to kill people with, use some of that.  
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Not only that but if you transfer pell grant money to subsidize public universities (private would still have tuition just like in k-12) it’s actually revenue neutral.

i do love the “the government can’t afford it” while buying thousands of tanks we don’t need.

 
bagger said:
Not only that but if you transfer pell grant money to subsidize public universities (private would still have tuition just like in k-12) it’s actually revenue neutral.

i do love the “the government can’t afford it” while buying thousands of tanks we don’t need.
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Yeah we could afford it we just spend the money on other things.

 
Ketamine Dreams said:
I think this is a good idea and something I’d be for, but it’s not ‘free tuition’. Just clarifying that. 
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Do you make this painful argument about driving on roads or k-12 education?

hey everyone just so you know this isn’t free!!! Must be a blast at parties.

 
timschochet said:
I don’t like simple arguments for complex subjects. And Rambling Wreck is right. If the government pays for these things rather than private individuals, they will still not be free; they still have to be paid for, in the form of taxation. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a bad idea, but we should be honest about what it is we’re talking about. 
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Allocating our resources in a direction that allows every American citizen to be as healthy and educated as they want to be. 

 
KCitons said:
If it's government funded, what happens when there's a government shutdown? No school? No healthcare? No free lunches for school kids?
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We already have free lunch for school kids and it doesn't stop when there is a government shutdown.

 
Ilov80s said:
We already have free lunch for school kids and it doesn't stop when there is a government shutdown.
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Many government organizations that are “essential” are funded for future quarters, not the current one.  So when the government shutdown occurs, engineers working on technology are able to continue working unless the shutdown stayed for several months.  Non essential employees sign a paper that acknowledges they aren’t going to be working though.  Government paid college through many programs is paid semester by semester, so if there was a shutdown in March you would be good through the Spring semester since it has already been paid, but the government would need to be back together by the fall.  

 
bagger said:
Do you make this painful argument about driving on roads or k-12 education?

hey everyone just so you know this isn’t free!!! Must be a blast at parties.
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Yeah I am actually. Go ahead and keep up the personal attacks, gee, you must be a blast at parties too!!!!  

Our kids go to a private school because class sizes and education in our local public school isn’t up to par. Property and vehicle taxes are already too high where we live. It’s unrealistic to think that suddenly there will be money for college, health care and everything else under the sun. Especially when you consider how few people actually pay federal income tax anymore, (what, 47% or so don’t). 

 
timschochet said:
With regard to the education part: 

My daughter applied to 4 University of California campuses, with tuitions averaging around $35,000 a year. 

She applied to Chapman University, a private university, with a tuition of $65,000 a year. 

She applied to San Diego State, Cal State Long Beach, and Cal State Fullerton, with tuitions around $20,000 a year. 

Which of these are to be covered under this proposal? All of them? All of the public universities? Only some of the public universities? What exactly would be the plan here? 
Click to expand...
Tuition at UC schools has gone up above $35k for in state???? It was under $5k when I started there 20 years ago (Holy crap, it's been that long...)

Or are you taking about room and board as well as tuition?

 
The Z Machine said:
Tuition at UC schools has gone up above $35k for in state???? It was under $5k when I started there 20 years ago (Holy crap, it's been that long...)

Or are you taking about room and board as well as tuition?
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Prices are out of control for colleges. Those high end administrators have 2nd and 3rd homes to pay for.

 
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