Frustrated Gates Owner (1 Viewer)

[red]

all reports were that he was fully healthy and having a great training camp. But, his performance suggests that he's washed up (at least for this year). is it because of phillip rivers and his struggles? is it because of norv turner and his ineptitude? is it because of defenses focusing on him? is it because of the game plan? for example, last week, the offense was trying to get the ball down field more instead of checking down to Gates or running him deep. then they tried to run the ball given how close the game was...i haven't watched any chargers game, so i'm looking to find out what the deal is.

he now faces the mediocre chiefs and their 18th ranked defense (11th in passing) tonight. i'm so done with this guy...i can't even trade him

OK...i just needed to vent...**SIGH**

 

[steveski]

I've only seen a couple of the Chargers games but it seems to be a combination of all of the things you said as well as Gates not getting separation like he has in years past. Malcom Floyd is really the only other receiving threat on the team so it's easy to lock up Gates. Having Rivers throwing the ball is far from helpful too. I own him as well and if he didn't have the one good week he would have been dropped. He's riding the bench in favor of Miller until he can string together back to back decent games.

 

[just_want_2_win]

I've only seen a couple of the Chargers games but it seems to be a combination of all of the things you said as well as Gates not getting separation like he has in years past. Malcom Floyd is really the only other receiving threat on the team so it's easy to lock up Gates. Having Rivers throwing the ball is far from helpful too. I own him as well and if he didn't have the one good week he would have been dropped. He's riding the bench in favor of Miller until he can string together back to back decent games.

I had Gates on one team earlier this year but got rid of him in a package deal. I mention that just to explain why I was following him during the first few weeks of this season. I don't have stats in front of me but one thing I'd add to the points made so far is that Floyd seemed to eat into Gates' end zone targets in the games I watched. Also, with the trend the last year or two of using Tolbert/Battle to run at the goal line, Gates has had his EZ targets diminished that much further.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Phillip Rivers - Marcus AureliusAntonio Gates - CommodusRonnie Brown - Maximushttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2jbK6dGLGc

Marcus Aurelius: Are you ready to do your duty for Rome?Commodus: Yes, father.Marcus Aurelius: You will not be emperor.Commodus: Which wiser, older man is to take my place?Marcus Aurelius: My powers will pass to Maximus, to hold in trust until the Senate is ready to rule once more. Rome is to be a republic again.Commodus: Maximus?Marcus Aurelius: Yes. My decision disappoints you?Commodus: You wrote to me once, listing the four chief virtues: Wisdom, justice, fortitude and temperance. As I read the list, I knew I had none of them. But I have other virtues, father. Ambition. That can be a virtue when it drives us to excel. Resourcefulness, courage, perhaps not on the battlefield, but... there are many forms of courage. Devotion, to my family and to you. But none of my virtues were on your list. Even then it was as if you didn't want me for your son.Marcus Aurelius: Oh, Commodus. You go too far.Commodus: I search the faces of the gods... for ways to please you, to make you proud. One kind word, one full hug... where you pressed me to your chest and held me tight. Would have been like the sun on my heart for a thousand years. What is it in me that you hate so much?Marcus Aurelius: Shh, Commodus.Commodus: All I've ever wanted was to live up to you, Caesar. Father.Marcus Aurelius: [Marcus Aurelius gets down on his knees] Commodus. Your faults as a son is my failure as a father. Come[Gives Commodus a hug]Commodus: [Commodus hugs Marcus and cries] Father. I would have butcher the whole world... if you would only love me![Commodus begins to asphyxiate Marcus while they hug, Marcus grunts]

Rivers has a dying arm, from years of bad mechanics. He's checking down and finding Ronnie Brown. Brown is taking a lot of the plate that Gates used to get. Gates has his own issues in terms of getting open and his general conditioning and his age, but you would be better off running Ronnie Brown and a high TE 2 than running Gates and a middling back like Alex Green. Rivers favored Gates, now he favors Brown.

Does this mean Gates will smother Rivers soon? I don't think Gates is a horrible play tonight. KC is stingy against TEs but Gates did post the highest yardage total (59) on them back in week 4.

 

[Shutout]

You know because you posted this, he will go 6/112/2 tonight, right?

I have watched two chargers games in their entirety this year and the difference I see is that he just does not seems to explode in his movements anymore. He appears to mosey.

The answer might be a combination of multiple things but the results are apparent.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

To me, Gates looks like he's running much better than he has in the past few years.

He's had a few drops. But the bigger problem is that without other receiving threats, the Chargers can't keep defenses from smothering Gates. Vincent Jackson used to occupy defensive attention in a way that Robert Meachem isn't. Eddie Royal has been banged up, and hasn't been the underneath threat that the Chargers were counting on. It's just Gates and Floyd, so defenses are largely taking them away.

And Rivers is constantly under immediate pressure, so he can't wait for Gates to shake free of the double teams.

 

[Chaka]

The O-line sucks and they miss Vincent Jackson far more than they thought they would.

ETA: I see MT already made those points.

 

[SameSongNDance]

To me, Gates looks like he's running much better than he has in the past few years.

He's had a few drops. But the bigger problem is that without other receiving threats, the Chargers can't keep defenses from smothering Gates. Vincent Jackson used to occupy defensive attention in a way that Robert Meachem isn't. Eddie Royal has been banged up, and hasn't been the underneath threat that the Chargers were counting on. It's just Gates and Floyd, so defenses are largely taking them away.

And Rivers is constantly under immediate pressure, so he can't wait for Gates to shake free of the double teams.

I watched him put a double move on a LB a few weeks ago that had his head spinning. IMO, I think Gates losing a step has been overly exaggerated. On a competent offense/team he'd still be a top 5 TE.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

To me, Gates looks like he's running much better than he has in the past few years.

He's had a few drops. But the bigger problem is that without other receiving threats, the Chargers can't keep defenses from smothering Gates. Vincent Jackson used to occupy defensive attention in a way that Robert Meachem isn't. Eddie Royal has been banged up, and hasn't been the underneath threat that the Chargers were counting on. It's just Gates and Floyd, so defenses are largely taking them away.

And Rivers is constantly under immediate pressure, so he can't wait for Gates to shake free of the double teams.

I watched him put a double move on a LB a few weeks ago that had his head spinning. IMO, I think Gates losing a step has been overly exaggerated. On a competent offense/team he'd still be a top 5 TE.

Gates is a risky buy, but if he and Rivers keep this up for the whole year I think the price may be right for 2013. You might get a year or two of fantastic production for next to nothing.

 

[tsarc888]

in the last game vs the Chiefs, it may not show up in the box score but he absolutely ABUSED Eric Berry who was flagged for 2 PI calls because he couldn't stay with Gates. Has he lost a step? eh, maybe half a step but his struggles are mostly related to:

A: his worst surrounding receiving cast in forever

B: horrible O-line play that gives Rivers no time or when they do, it's because an additional TE is staying in to block resulting in few people in the pattern and therefore more attention to Gates.

C: Rivers struggling even on the rare occasions he does get time.

 

[Team Smokin']

Ditto - frustrated. Is he too old now? Is he not hungry anymore? C'mon Antonio, c'mon Rivers, c'mon Chargers Let's Go!!!

No where else to go - gotta ride Gates

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

2-35-1 on the first drive. He's already put up a usable score in PPR leagues.

 

[BobbyLayne]

2-35-1 on the first drive. He's already put up a usable score in PPR leagues.

2 decent weeks out of 8.But, yeah, at this point you're pretty much stuck with him. Hope he comes on in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[zandbak]

 

[Bobby Guano]

He's still a turd. I don't see how anyone could or would trust him in their lineup this season unless they were desperate.

I'm only going to say this becasue I know deep down everyone in the shark pool cares about my fantasy team and its continued success this season.....thank God Heath Miller was on the WW after I didn't draft a back up.

 

[SameSongNDance]

He's still a turd. I don't see how anyone could or would trust him in their lineup this season unless they were desperate.I'm only going to say this becasue I know deep down everyone in the shark pool cares about my fantasy team and its continued success this season.....thank God Heath Miller was on the WW after I didn't draft a back up.

I'll remember this when Gates outscores Miller this week.

 

[Mario Kart]

So, did Gates get hurt or what?

 

[Clorox]

So, did Gates get hurt or what?

Offense hasn't been on the field for a long time. And the last time they were, they ran 7 straight plays then threw a TD to Floyd.

 

[Bobby Guano]

He's still a turd. I don't see how anyone could or would trust him in their lineup this season unless they were desperate.I'm only going to say this becasue I know deep down everyone in the shark pool cares about my fantasy team and its continued success this season.....thank God Heath Miller was on the WW after I didn't draft a back up.

I'll remember this when Gates outscores Miller this week.

It's fine if he does, I'm perfectly cool with it one way or another...we will see. All I'm saying is that with the way Gates has been playing this year if you have a guy like Miller who has been far more productive on a week to week basis you have to go with the guy scoring more points. If you missed out on a decent WW TE and have relied on Gates all season then you've had a pretty big hole in your lineup for 7 out of 9 weeks.

 

[SameSongNDance]

He's still a turd. I don't see how anyone could or would trust him in their lineup this season unless they were desperate.I'm only going to say this becasue I know deep down everyone in the shark pool cares about my fantasy team and its continued success this season.....thank God Heath Miller was on the WW after I didn't draft a back up.

I'll remember this when Gates outscores Miller this week.

It's fine if he does, I'm perfectly cool with it one way or another...we will see. All I'm saying is that with the way Gates has been playing this year if you have a guy like Miller who has been far more productive on a week to week basis you have to go with the guy scoring more points. If you missed out on a decent WW TE and have relied on Gates all season then you've had a pretty big hole in your lineup for 7 out of 9 weeks.

I agree and luckily in the single league I own him in the WW is loaded with TEs since we don't flex them and it's a 10-teamer. However, I just don't think he's a turd lol.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

He's still a turd. I don't see how anyone could or would trust him in their lineup this season unless they were desperate.I'm only going to say this becasue I know deep down everyone in the shark pool cares about my fantasy team and its continued success this season.....thank God Heath Miller was on the WW after I didn't draft a back up.

U were right. Noone cares.

 

[kinghill]

He's still a turd. I don't see how anyone could or would trust him in their lineup this season unless they were desperate.I'm only going to say this becasue I know deep down everyone in the shark pool cares about my fantasy team and its continued success this season.....thank God Heath Miller was on the WW after I didn't draft a back up.

To me, desperate would be dropping Gates for Brandon Myers, or trading Gates for someone like Brent Celek.Good job picking up Miller early though.

 

[gradin123]

He may have some good weeks down the stretch and is still a useable TE but this offense just isn't that good this year as they miss Jackson and he is drawing a lot of attention as a result. In slightly positive news Alexander looked better tonight than Meacham has at any point this year and if Alexander continues to start it might take some heat of Gates and Floyd in the future.

Also, Gates looks a step slower and a bit heavier.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I know hes slowed down alot, but he still has good body control on LBs/DBs that try to cover him and gets a bunch of PIs called, whats I can't understand is the lack of targets. I knew I wasn't going to get the explosive Gates anymore but figured he'd be a target hog on the team and his production would stay about the same due to it. Wrong!!!

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The fact that opposing coaches are doubling him with two DBs tells you all you need to know.

 

[Shutout]

I'm sure gates owners will take last night's game a little bitter sweet. You have to say "Ok, I'll take that" but at the same time, you have to be a bit concerned that you are a coin toss away from almost nothing. A penalty on that first drive or just a simple decision to go the other way on that TD and you are looking at yet another 2/25 night.

In related news, for IDP'ers, apparantly all you need to breathe life into Eric Berry is a TE threat. They seemed to just put him on Gates for a while or let him take whoever broke inside on teh Gates side (news you can use going forward..he's been a tricky one to figure out).

 

[Chazzhawk]

The problem is this used to be a matchup where Gates would go 6 for 65 and 2 touchdowns.

 

[JuniorNB]

In case people haven't noticed, Tight End has been a horribly inconsistant position this year. Just ask Vernon Davis owners. And those who picked up Bennett and Rudolph because of a few good weeks early. Gates has had two good games out of his last three. And three TDs in his last three games. I was very displeased with hi early on, but I like the turnaround I'm seeing. I think Rivers is wising up.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Phillip Rivers - Marcus AureliusAntonio Gates - CommodusRonnie Brown - Maximushttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2jbK6dGLGc

Marcus Aurelius: Are you ready to do your duty for Rome?Commodus: Yes, father.Marcus Aurelius: You will not be emperor.Commodus: Which wiser, older man is to take my place?Marcus Aurelius: My powers will pass to Maximus, to hold in trust until the Senate is ready to rule once more. Rome is to be a republic again.Commodus: Maximus?Marcus Aurelius: Yes. My decision disappoints you?Commodus: You wrote to me once, listing the four chief virtues: Wisdom, justice, fortitude and temperance. As I read the list, I knew I had none of them. But I have other virtues, father. Ambition. That can be a virtue when it drives us to excel. Resourcefulness, courage, perhaps not on the battlefield, but... there are many forms of courage. Devotion, to my family and to you. But none of my virtues were on your list. Even then it was as if you didn't want me for your son.Marcus Aurelius: Oh, Commodus. You go too far.Commodus: I search the faces of the gods... for ways to please you, to make you proud. One kind word, one full hug... where you pressed me to your chest and held me tight. Would have been like the sun on my heart for a thousand years. What is it in me that you hate so much?Marcus Aurelius: Shh, Commodus.Commodus: All I've ever wanted was to live up to you, Caesar. Father.Marcus Aurelius: [Marcus Aurelius gets down on his knees] Commodus. Your faults as a son is my failure as a father. Come[Gives Commodus a hug]Commodus: [Commodus hugs Marcus and cries] Father. I would have butcher the whole world... if you would only love me![Commodus begins to asphyxiate Marcus while they hug, Marcus grunts]

Rivers has a dying arm, from years of bad mechanics. He's checking down and finding Ronnie Brown. Brown is taking a lot of the plate that Gates used to get. Gates has his own issues in terms of getting open and his general conditioning and his age, but you would be better off running Ronnie Brown and a high TE 2 than running Gates and a middling back like Alex Green. Rivers favored Gates, now he favors Brown.

This post made me laugh. But it also made me seriously think about picking up Ronnie Brown and starting him as a desperation bye week start. I'd have never have even considered Brown or even look for him on waivers if I didn't read this. Ended up finding him on waivers a half hour before game time, picked him up for FREE. Great start, Brown ended up producing a very nice statline as bye week filler RB (12.3 pts in PPR). The Gladiator screenplay served to emphasize just how involved Ronnie Brown is in this offense. I'm glad I bought this script. It may be the difference this week in a win and a loss. Good Stuff!!!

 

[steveski]

In case people haven't noticed, Tight End has been a horribly inconsistant position this year. Just ask Vernon Davis owners. And those who picked up Bennett and Rudolph because of a few good weeks early. Gates has had two good games out of his last three. And three TDs in his last three games. I was very displeased with hi early on, but I like the turnaround I'm seeing. I think Rivers is wising up.

Don't forget Pitta! He was all the craze!

 

[JuniorNB]

In case people haven't noticed, Tight End has been a horribly inconsistant position this year. Just ask Vernon Davis owners. And those who picked up Bennett and Rudolph because of a few good weeks early. Gates has had two good games out of his last three. And three TDs in his last three games. I was very displeased with hi early on, but I like the turnaround I'm seeing. I think Rivers is wising up.

Don't forget Pitta! He was all the craze!

Exactly! Gronk and Graham (when healthy) are pure studs. After them, it's a crapshoot. I hope that what we've seen of Gates over the last few games (the exception being the bad weather game in Cleveland) is what we can start to expect from Gates.

 

[FF Ninja]

Keep in mind there were only 13 passes attempted to non-RBs last night. Can't expect too much from nights like that. But the week before was a little disturbing. In a close game he only saw 4 targets. Out of 34 attempts, 12 went to the RBs, but I'd still expect more than 4 to go to Gates given the lack of options.

 

[fightingillini]

In case people haven't noticed, Tight End has been a horribly inconsistant position this year. Just ask Vernon Davis owners. And those who picked up Bennett and Rudolph because of a few good weeks early. Gates has had two good games out of his last three. And three TDs in his last three games. I was very displeased with hi early on, but I like the turnaround I'm seeing. I think Rivers is wising up.

Unless you have Gronkowski, Graham or Witten, you're going to have games with little prodution at TE. Even Gonzalez looks like he's starting to wear down a little.Remember that Rivers only threw the ball 20 times last night, and 3 after halftime. They pretty much ran the ball and played defense in the 2nd half. I will take 11.5 points from Gates. But I am tempering my expectations from him.

 

[MCguidance]

They quickly doubled him after the opening drive once he abused his single coverage. Doesn't take a football genius IQ to figure it out.

 

[LargeMouthBass]

If you are frustrated with Gates, you should trade him for Vernon Davis...

 

[PhantomJB]

Anyone see Gates as a mid-tier TE1 going forward? I know SD is in some turmoil but at this point his perceived value is very low.

Last two games have been solid though not spectacular. He was something like 3/50/1 on just the opening drive vs. KC then SD got up so big they didn't need him. Also hit paydirt last week so his red zone targets haven't gone away.

With D.Alexander stretching the field like VJax used to it could be a nice buying oppty.

 

[mere blitzianity]

I was at the SD/TB this weekend and spent much of the afternoon watching Gates, since I own him in my big money league. A few observations:

1) He's still moving very well and was fluid in and out if his breaks. He's definitely not the same dominant force he was two years ago, but make no mistake about it, his talent is still elite. IMO, any lack of production is due more to the poor offensive line play, lack of other dangerous weapons and Rivers' deteriorating skills. With better o-line/QB play, Gates easily goes for 100 and 2 scores.

2) The SD line is not very good and Rivers rarely threw from a clean pocket. I counted at least 5 times where he had Gates either open or one on one with a DB, but either failed to see him or didn't have enough time. BTW, Gates was not double teamed by two DB's and often times was in single coverage against Barron.

3) I'm came away from the game wondering if Rivers will be under center next year in SD. We all know Norv is a goner, but PR's skills have deteriorated so rapidly that you have to question if he's a legitimate starter anymore. He's still better than some starting QB's in the league, but I can't see many teams looking to sign him (should he get cut--I don't know his cap hit).

4) Alexander and Meachem are at best marginal number three WR's and don't strike fear in the heart of the defense. As much as I couldn't stand VJax's inconsistency, he was a major cog in that offense and forced opposing D's to gameplan stopping him. Maybe Brown would have helped this year, but the current roster is bereft of any real talent at the WR position.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Phillip Rivers is almost as bad as the o-line that protects him. This entire team is a trainwreck.

 

[shadyridr]

I just wish there was a decent tight end available on the ww in my league but I'm pretty much stuck with him.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Depending how tonight's game goes I might cut him for Martellus or Finley. Watching San Diego's offense is painful.

 

[The General]

Just cut him. You'll feel so much better.

You can rotate through waiver wire guys, get similar or more likely better production, and don't have dread looking at the SD box score to see the line on Gates reading 2 catches 21 yards every week.

 

[shadyridr]

Depending how tonight's game goes I might cut him for Martellus or Finley. Watching San Diego's offense is painful.

Extremely painful. I don't mind cutting him but neither of those guys are available in my league. I'm looking at guys like Lewis, houser, and tamme in my league. I still might do it.And FYI I'm not even blaming gates here. It's the oline and rivers

 

[VikingFrog]

Just cut him. You'll feel so much better. You can rotate through waiver wire guys, get similar or more likely better production, and don't have dread looking at the SD box score to see the line on Gates reading 2 catches 21 yards every week.

Haha, I was triying to dig up the thread to say the same thing, but couldn't find it and gave up.The guy is miserable and the only reason I haven't been able to drop him was due to his game against KC when he finally got a TD.Picked up Ridley to back him up who ended the day with a concussion today, so it might be straight back to Gates next week and just cross my fingers.

 

[Ghost Rider]

And FYI I'm not even blaming gates here. It's the oline and rivers

I blame them all. They all stink.

 

[Zab]

I just wish there was a decent tight end available on the ww in my league but I'm pretty much stuck with him.

You echo my sentiments exactly.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Dropping him this week. Will just put WW fodder in there the last 2 weeks and the playoffs. Surely can't do any worse.

 

[The General]

Depending how tonight's game goes I might cut him for Martellus or Finley. Watching San Diego's offense is painful.

Extremely painful. I don't mind cutting him but neither of those guys are available in my league. I'm looking at guys like Lewis, houser, and tamme in my league. I still might do it.And FYI I'm not even blaming gates here. It's the oline and rivers

I don't blame Gates, he's just aged really fast. He is huge and cannot separate anymore. The team is just hard to watch on many levels. Rivers is running for his life on at least half of the passing plays, they have no sustained run game. Then they feel obligated to show Norm on the sidelines who in HD is really rough to look at.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I just wish there was a decent tight end available on the ww in my league but I'm pretty much stuck with him.

I'm not using that excuse anymore. You could pick up a rookie backing up Ben Watson (to use one example from today) and do better. You could grab Pettigrew's backup, he spends most of his time in the slot. You could probably grab Allen or Chandler or Moeaki or Paulson - and in every instance, you would be upgrading.Just let the worthless #### go. Make your league one of the the 7% that don't own Gates. Biggest turd in FF this year.

 

[shadyridr]

I just wish there was a decent tight end available on the ww in my league but I'm pretty much stuck with him.

I'm not using that excuse anymore. You could pick up a rookie backing up Ben Watson (to use one example from today) and do better. You could grab Pettigrew's backup, he spends most of his time in the slot. You could probably grab Allen or Chandler or Moeaki or Paulson - and in every instance, you would be upgrading.Just let the worthless #### go. Make your league one of the the 7% that don't own Gates. Biggest turd in FF this year.

Fair point. I'm gonna shoot for Lewis, houser, Clark, or paulsen

 

[Bobby Guano]

Hes a turd im done with him. Cutting him and rolling with Heath regardless of his ####ty QB situation.