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Game Thread W9 - Dallas V Washington (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Andy Hicks
- Start date
fatness
Footballguy
After that they set it at 19-19 with no time left. It's still that way now.
RoarinSonoran
Footballguy
What phantom call? It was quite obvious to me as the play was running.
Did he rip his head off like AZ vs Larry Johnson a few weeks ago? No, but that doesn't matter. If you grab the mask and pull it (to any degree), it's 15.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
I don't think that block was all Vanderjagt's fault (not that he has been anything special this season).
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Anyone think Owens will blame himself for dropping a touchdown?
Cowboys#1
Footballguy
i am 100% serious when i say get rid of that #### kicker
he has done NOTHING for us.
ive watched that kick 8 times, what a horrible kick it was 5 feet high when it got to the line, surprised it didnt hit the center in the head
and that penalty!?!? you call that a 15 yarder?!? my grandmother wouldnt flich if she got caught by that facemask and you call a f'n 15 yard penalty
BS
he has done NOTHING for us.
ive watched that kick 8 times, what a horrible kick it was 5 feet high when it got to the line, surprised it didnt hit the center in the head
and that penalty!?!? you call that a 15 yarder?!? my grandmother wouldnt flich if she got caught by that facemask and you call a f'n 15 yard penalty
BS
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
I ugree with ewe.
Cowboys#1
Footballguy
that was not a 15 yarder a 5 yarder okay but 15!??! no wayWhat phantom call? It was quite obvious to me as the play was running.
fatness
Footballguy
She should play for the Cowboys. She sounds tough.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
A few comments here:
1) Can't believe that the announcers didn't mention that if the Cowboys had kicked the extra point earlier in the game, after Novak missed the first FG the game would have been over and Dallas would have won.
2) The facemask call was a good call. Taylor's head was turned by the facemask. That's a 15 yarder by rule.
3) Troy Vincent
4) Remember when Archuletta was given a ton of money and Redskins fans said it was such a great move?
1) Can't believe that the announcers didn't mention that if the Cowboys had kicked the extra point earlier in the game, after Novak missed the first FG the game would have been over and Dallas would have won.
2) The facemask call was a good call. Taylor's head was turned by the facemask. That's a 15 yarder by rule.
3) Troy Vincent
4) Remember when Archuletta was given a ton of money and Redskins fans said it was such a great move?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Pin this loss on Bill. You don't try for the 2pt conversion in the first quarter. Way too much football left to be played to be trying to match up the scores that early.
The first half is way too early to start chasing the points.
redman
Footballguy
I disagree with you. The ruling is based upon whether the face mask is merely touched, or whether it was more than that and the yank of the head is a dead giveaway to a 15-yarder. It's not debateable. I agree, it's a rough way to lose, but the penalty was correctly called.that was not a 15 yarder a 5 yarder okay but 15!??! no wayWhat phantom call? It was quite obvious to me as the play was running.
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fatness
Footballguy
So far Archuleta has been a significant step backward from the guy he replaced. To be fair, Redman and some other Skins fans were skeptical about the signing.4) Remember when Archuletta was given a ton of money and Redskins fans said it was such a great move?
redman
Footballguy
The drop in particular was a killer. That would have put them up by 2 TD's and forced Brunell to pass. Ware would have been licking his chops.
fatness
Footballguy
I'm surprised the Cowboys keep putting up with his poor pass coverage.
Capella
Footballguy
djcolts
Footballguy
Seriously - I feel your pain. He's horrible. My least favorite player in the NFL, bar none.
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Assani Fisher
Footballguy
snogger
Footballguy
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party but 
Was watching the Ticker tape on the bottom of the screen. saw.. Cowboys ball, 30 seconds left.. Tick, tick tick.. Cowboys ball, 4 seconds left tick, tick, tick... Then
Fianl score Redskins 22 - Dallas 19 and I'm thinking. Ahh, ticker was f'd up. Redskins had the ball not Dallas.
Now I go check the Play by play and see:
1-10-WAS17
06) M.Vanderjagt 35 yard field goal is BLOCKED (T.Vincent), Center-L.Ladouceur, Holder-T.Romo, RECOVERED by WAS-S.Taylor at WAS 26. S.Taylor to DAL 44 for 30 yards (J.Witten).
PENALTY on DAL-K.Kosier, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at DAL 44.
Washington Redskins at 00:00
1-10-DAL2900) N.Novak 47 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-E.Albright, Holder-D.Frost.
Was watching the Ticker tape on the bottom of the screen. saw.. Cowboys ball, 30 seconds left.. Tick, tick tick.. Cowboys ball, 4 seconds left tick, tick, tick... Then
Fianl score Redskins 22 - Dallas 19 and I'm thinking. Ahh, ticker was f'd up. Redskins had the ball not Dallas.
Now I go check the Play by play and see:
1-10-WAS17
06) M.Vanderjagt 35 yard field goal is BLOCKED (T.Vincent), Center-L.Ladouceur, Holder-T.Romo, RECOVERED by WAS-S.Taylor at WAS 26. S.Taylor to DAL 44 for 30 yards (J.Witten).PENALTY on DAL-K.Kosier, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at DAL 44.
Washington Redskins at 00:00
1-10-DAL29
00) N.Novak 47 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-E.Albright, Holder-D.Frost.
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redman
Footballguy
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party but
The ending was exactly as 
as the ticker indicated.
redman
Footballguy
redman
Footballguy
Lifelong 'Skins fan here and I feel your pain, I really do. This rivalry got pretty one-sided for a decade or so, but these two teams have a history of doing this stuff to each other. I'm just glad the karma's gotten evened up here a bit.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Random observations from a 'skins fan that steadfastly refuses to don the rose-colored glasses:
Karma is as Karma does...
Like it or not, by rule that facemask on Taylor was a legitimate 15 yard penalty...by rule, and rule alone.
If any Dallas fans want to talk about ticky-tack penalties, let's consider:
Roughing the passer on Sean Taylor early in the game, where he clearly hit Romo in the core, and wasn't going for his knees...
A 'no call' that went Dallas' way on a hit on Brunell that was almost a carbon copy of above...at least blow the call both ways...
Holding call on Fauria where DeMarcus Ware simply ran Fauria over and tripped trying to go for Brunell...
A no call on the Dallas Special Teams player who tripped ARE on a punt return that had the looks of a breakaway...
NUMEROUS Offensive Holding no-calls that went Dallas' way, most notably by Witten on the TD pass to Terry Glenn...
...and despite all of that, the penalties they DID call just killed the Cowboys. They beat the 'skins in almost every statistical category today.
I'm THRILLED the 'skins won, but once again, but my enthusiasm is (as usual) tempered by the fact that the breaks went their way, and this was in no way a convincing, or dominating win, much like the Jacksonville win, where if the 'skins didn't win the OT Coin Toss, it's quite likely they would have lost. Eight games into the season, and only one dominating performance (vs crappy Houston) so far this season. Inexcuseable, in terms of what was expected from this '06 team.
Strange as it sounds, Santana Moss not going today was probably one of the biggest +'s for the Redskins' offensive development going forward. Brunell is so dependant on him, there's no telling what kind of foolishness we might have seen if a less than 100% SMoss was out there running patterns. Deprived of SMoss, Brunell was forced to find other receivers on the field, and brought Cooley back into the game plan.
Randle-El is the goods...
T.O. and Vanderjagt absolutely blew it for Dallas. If I'm a Dallas fan, I'm furious my team came away with an L. The Redskins 2nd half offensive output was, in a word, morbid...
...they still have to go an improbable 7-1 over the next 8 games to have even a remote hope of sniffing the playoffs, which in terms of the expectations for this '06 team, is absolutely pathetic...
No calls or not, the Redskins front four has to be one of the worst in the League in generating pressure on opposing QB's, and we have yet to see aggressive blitz-calling on the part of Williams, almost as if they're hesitant to leave the 2ndary exposed, which is a massive departure from last years dominant scheme. Hard to see that going away any time soon...
Going into this season, Redskins and their fans had every right to EXPECT to, at worst, split with Dallas, so this win does nothing to make up for home losses vs the Vikings and Titans. We still have to find a way to make up for those sorry excuses for final scores.
It's always uplifting to beat the Cobwebs, of course. The subtle bright spot of the day for me is that Troy Vincent is relegating Archuleta to situational spot-duty, which is a big time plus. Arch still found a way to almost get us killed, as he was on coverage with Witten on that last completion that put Dallas in FG range at the end. Oh, and Andre Carter's 'big play count' is now up to two. Ugh.
Loved Novak in the post-game press conference. Emotionless and humble. Perfect. Vincent was the consummate professional in his interview as well. He fills a leadership void in that locker room, and provides Taylor with a running mate that goes a long way to making up for the loss of Ryan Clark and Pierson Priolau, which is absolutely a HUGE positive intangible...
Hopefully Vincent will have some insight on McNabb and the Eagles that the 'skins can use to their advantage, because a win in Philly would qualify as a make-up win. Home games vs Tampa and Atlanta are certainly 'winnable', but that still leaves another game vs Philly, vs NYG, vs Carolina, at NO and at STL, where they have to find, at a minimum 4 wins. Not the most pleasant of prospects by any means.
Great day, but plenty of work still to be done if there's any hope of salvaging the season based on the expectations everyone had going in...
Karma is as Karma does...
Like it or not, by rule that facemask on Taylor was a legitimate 15 yard penalty...by rule, and rule alone.
If any Dallas fans want to talk about ticky-tack penalties, let's consider:
Roughing the passer on Sean Taylor early in the game, where he clearly hit Romo in the core, and wasn't going for his knees...
A 'no call' that went Dallas' way on a hit on Brunell that was almost a carbon copy of above...at least blow the call both ways...
Holding call on Fauria where DeMarcus Ware simply ran Fauria over and tripped trying to go for Brunell...
A no call on the Dallas Special Teams player who tripped ARE on a punt return that had the looks of a breakaway...
NUMEROUS Offensive Holding no-calls that went Dallas' way, most notably by Witten on the TD pass to Terry Glenn...
...and despite all of that, the penalties they DID call just killed the Cowboys. They beat the 'skins in almost every statistical category today.
I'm THRILLED the 'skins won, but once again, but my enthusiasm is (as usual) tempered by the fact that the breaks went their way, and this was in no way a convincing, or dominating win, much like the Jacksonville win, where if the 'skins didn't win the OT Coin Toss, it's quite likely they would have lost. Eight games into the season, and only one dominating performance (vs crappy Houston) so far this season. Inexcuseable, in terms of what was expected from this '06 team.
Strange as it sounds, Santana Moss not going today was probably one of the biggest +'s for the Redskins' offensive development going forward. Brunell is so dependant on him, there's no telling what kind of foolishness we might have seen if a less than 100% SMoss was out there running patterns. Deprived of SMoss, Brunell was forced to find other receivers on the field, and brought Cooley back into the game plan.
Randle-El is the goods...
T.O. and Vanderjagt absolutely blew it for Dallas. If I'm a Dallas fan, I'm furious my team came away with an L. The Redskins 2nd half offensive output was, in a word, morbid...
...they still have to go an improbable 7-1 over the next 8 games to have even a remote hope of sniffing the playoffs, which in terms of the expectations for this '06 team, is absolutely pathetic...
No calls or not, the Redskins front four has to be one of the worst in the League in generating pressure on opposing QB's, and we have yet to see aggressive blitz-calling on the part of Williams, almost as if they're hesitant to leave the 2ndary exposed, which is a massive departure from last years dominant scheme. Hard to see that going away any time soon...
Going into this season, Redskins and their fans had every right to EXPECT to, at worst, split with Dallas, so this win does nothing to make up for home losses vs the Vikings and Titans. We still have to find a way to make up for those sorry excuses for final scores.
It's always uplifting to beat the Cobwebs, of course. The subtle bright spot of the day for me is that Troy Vincent is relegating Archuleta to situational spot-duty, which is a big time plus. Arch still found a way to almost get us killed, as he was on coverage with Witten on that last completion that put Dallas in FG range at the end. Oh, and Andre Carter's 'big play count' is now up to two. Ugh.
Loved Novak in the post-game press conference. Emotionless and humble. Perfect. Vincent was the consummate professional in his interview as well. He fills a leadership void in that locker room, and provides Taylor with a running mate that goes a long way to making up for the loss of Ryan Clark and Pierson Priolau, which is absolutely a HUGE positive intangible...
Hopefully Vincent will have some insight on McNabb and the Eagles that the 'skins can use to their advantage, because a win in Philly would qualify as a make-up win. Home games vs Tampa and Atlanta are certainly 'winnable', but that still leaves another game vs Philly, vs NYG, vs Carolina, at NO and at STL, where they have to find, at a minimum 4 wins. Not the most pleasant of prospects by any means.
Great day, but plenty of work still to be done if there's any hope of salvaging the season based on the expectations everyone had going in...
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
good posting NL
redman
Footballguy
Nice post, nittanylion. Just a few thoughts in response.
Totally agree. The refs seemed to miss a lot of things that would have helped the Redskins today. It doesn't always work that way, but today that was my impression.
Agreed again, except that Cooley has been in the game plan for the last several games actually. The real beneficiary of this may be Lloyd, who is clearly capable of a lot more contribution to the offense than they've let him give. Also, we saw not a single WR "bubble screen".
He's awesome. A total spark plug. He has many attributes in common with Moss with the ball in his hands - no small compliment. He's not quite as good as Moss at getting the ball in the air though, which is why he's not quite as good as a WR. The good news is that he's so versatile that there are many ways to get him involved. His value as a PR is immense.
Agreed on the front four, disagree on the blitzing. Today we saw the defense healthy for the first time, and not coincidentally the blitzing came back big time. I'm not sure how you missed that watching the game as you obviously did. As far as the front four goes, I fail to see why they can't rotate Daniels to the right side and take Carter out on obvious run downs. Daniels found his groove last year at RDE late in the year, but now he's been stuck over on the left side and is virtually invisible.
I'm drawing no final conclusions about this team just yet. Twice in the last five years they've won five games in a row, and the character and professionalism on this team is great. Gibbs remains a steady leader. They're capable of getting on a hot streak, and nobody they play is such an elite team that they don't have a chance to beat them. Still, it's a very tall order to be sure. I agree that they've underperformed, but it's still not clear whether the bulk of the blame for that rests with the coaches and management making too many offseason changes to a team that won a playoff game last year, or with the players for just underperforming. There have also of course been injury problems that have hurt them. I do believe that Archuleta will not be playing for them next season.
Yeah cut him. He sucks.
NO blue dog
Footballguy
The skins should have won with the first FG. Three running plays from the 35 when your kicker is Nick Novack. Give me a break. I'm sick of this kicker stuff. Move the ball and your kicker isn't kicking from 49 yards out. Throw the ball. Get some first downs.
redman
Footballguy
Just to put the Taylor facemask penalty discussion to rest, here's a series of still shots showing the infraction, and the rule link and rule are listed and quoted, respectively, below:
First shot
Second shot
Third Shot
Fourth Shot
First shot
Second shot
Third Shot
Fourth Shot
NFL.com rules page
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I didn't see the highlights until a bit ago, but yeah, that was definitely a 15-yard facemasking penalty. I mean, he grabbed the facemask, and then pulled enough to where the head of the player was turned in the opposite direction of where his body was facing. If that isn't a 15-yarder, then I don't know what is.
fatness
Footballguy
The game was blacked out here and I didn't see the blocked FG and runback until last night. Man, what a play. Sean Taylor was running backwards for awhile looking for somewhere, anywhere to run. I half-expected to see the band come onto the field and watch players running through the band. What an ending.
What an ending.
redman
Footballguy
The game was blacked out here and I didn't see the blocked FG and runback until last night. Man, what a play. Sean Taylor was running backwards for awhile looking for somewhere, anywhere to run. I half-expected to see the band come onto the field and watch players running through the band.
Truly surreal. For an instant I thought he'd run it back for a TD, then he got tackled but I remembered that the flag had been thrown and was wondering whether Dallas would be considered a "defense" for the purposes of that penalty (for a free play) given that they'd started out with possession. Once I'd gotten it figured out, I couldn't believe the good fortune. It's funny because I didn't really have any fear of Novak missing, not to say I was thinking he was guaranteed to make it, but I guess I was so amused at the extra opportunity that I just viewed it as mana from heaven and didn't question it. Truly ridiculous. According to the Washington Post, Jason Witten who had of course made that nice catch to set up Vanderjagt's FG attempt was talking trash across the line of scrimmage about Archuleta who he'd beaten on the play. Vincent of course cut in between Witten and Columbo on the left side of the Cowboys line to make the FG block.
fatness
Footballguy
According to the Washington Post, Jason Witten who had of course made that nice catch to set up Vanderjagt's FG attempt was talking trash across the line of scrimmage about Archuleta who he'd beaten on the play. Vincent of course cut in between Witten and Columbo on the left side of the Cowboys line to make the FG block.
Priceless stuff. From scattered listening to the game and seeing highlights, it sounds like both Owens and Cooley had some critical drops in the game?Wasn't the face mask penalty at the farthest back point of the return? In those cases, I think the 15 yards should be from the spot of the foul and you have to choose to accept or decline the penalty based on the result of the play.
redman
Footballguy
You're thinking in terms of a blocking infraction which is measured from the spot of the foul, the idea behind which is that the penalty should not benefit the ball carrier. This was a personal foul, though, and those are always tacked on to the end. I agree that there are far more egregious personal foul penalties and even facemask infractions that I've seen, but this one definitely was called consistent with the rules and the ball was placed accordingly. Credit goes to Sean Taylor for making something happen on the return. If he doesn't get every yard of that return the Redskins probably don't make that FG.
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
Marc Columbo's blown block on the FG attempt lost the game for Dallas. That's about all there is to it. That guy completely manhandles Julius Peppers last week and brainfarts his way through the game yesterday.
Dallas will be lucky to finish 10-6 with the defense doing its best sieve impersonation and the offensive line blowing blocking assignments consistently.
Tony Romo played his ### off and was rewarded with the special teams giving the game away.
I think Dallas has taken more bad losses like this... converting imminently winnable games into head-scratching defeats... under the Parcells regime than it did at any other time in Cowboys history. Landry teams didn't lose like this. Johnson teams didn't have room for errors like this.
I've never seen a team beat themselves like this.
Dallas will be lucky to finish 10-6 with the defense doing its best sieve impersonation and the offensive line blowing blocking assignments consistently.
Tony Romo played his ### off and was rewarded with the special teams giving the game away.
I think Dallas has taken more bad losses like this... converting imminently winnable games into head-scratching defeats... under the Parcells regime than it did at any other time in Cowboys history. Landry teams didn't lose like this. Johnson teams didn't have room for errors like this.
I've never seen a team beat themselves like this.
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As much as I hate to admit it, the Cowboys are nothing more than an average team. No excuses, no qualifications, no "blame the refs" blather will change that.
The same mistakes get made over and over and over again (ie:lots of pre-snap penalties, Roy Williams either giving up a long pass play or getting a major PI penalty, Julius Jones being the wholly average RB that he is, unable to make a big play, and generally poor OL play) Parcells has brought the Cowboys from the dregs of the league to mediocrity. His tenure has been a disappointment. He has had less success in Dallas than anywhere else. This team will finish either 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7 and likely miss the playoffs.
As for the Redskins they will join the Cowboys on the road to nowhere. They may have won yesterday, but they aren't very good either.
The same mistakes get made over and over and over again (ie:lots of pre-snap penalties, Roy Williams either giving up a long pass play or getting a major PI penalty, Julius Jones being the wholly average RB that he is, unable to make a big play, and generally poor OL play) Parcells has brought the Cowboys from the dregs of the league to mediocrity. His tenure has been a disappointment. He has had less success in Dallas than anywhere else. This team will finish either 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7 and likely miss the playoffs.
As for the Redskins they will join the Cowboys on the road to nowhere. They may have won yesterday, but they aren't very good either.
Hey, it was a FEAR THE TURTLE weekend as Novak's sucessor with Maryland beat Clemson with a no time left FG as well. BTW, who'd a thunk it that Wake and Maryland are tied for first in one of the ACC divisions. Next up for the Terps is Miami, then BC and then a showdown with those dreaded Demon Deacons!
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