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George R.R. Martin - "A Dance With Dragons" (1 Viewer)

To those who have read both; Malazan or Wheel of Time?
Never read Malazan, but WoT rocks. Some say the middle books drag, but I enjoy the extremely detailed character developement and interactions. During those middle books, you never really got the feel that you were nearing the end of the books, but that was fine with me. Nobody has ever developed the number of characters as fully as Jordan. The only one that's come close is Martin. That's not to say that Martin's books aren't as good. I put them on an equal footing.
IMO - WoT is great, but certainly bogs down in the middle books. I haven't read the new stuff - will have to tackle those soon.Malazan, IMO, is dreck. I think the author likes to jump around to make it seem like a complex piece of literature. The plot really isn't that complex, but his short, jumping writing style leaves a lot to be desired. He reminds me a lot of James Rollins - jumping all over the place to "keep the action going." Bleh.Anyway, in my humble opinion if you want to dive into a great series of books read the "First Law" series from Joe Abercrombie. Spectacular set of books. Better than WoT or (certainly) Malazan, IMO. If you wanted a great single book pick up the "Golden Key" by Rawn and company.
 
I just started listening to A Game of Thrones for a refresher. What strikes me is how the book just oozes with foreshadowing and symbolism. I just listed to the second Bran chapter where he climbs the broken tower. His wolf tries to warn him. He's up there with the crows. He's up there with the twisted gargoyles. He looks at the broken tower which once climbed the highest but was broken by lightning. It must mention falling 5 or 6 times. Such a sad passage, especially when you know what is coming next.

The Arya passage where Jon tells her she'll die with needle in her hand is also one that caught my attention. Also loved Tyrion's "Every dwarf is a *******, but every ******* need not be a dwarf" speech when he is talking to Jon Snow. I remembered this book being fantastic, but had forgotten just how good it really is.

I have no doubt that Jon Snow is the daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.
 
I just started listening to A Game of Thrones for a refresher. What strikes me is how the book just oozes with foreshadowing and symbolism. I just listed to the second Bran chapter where he climbs the broken tower. His wolf tries to warn him. He's up there with the crows. He's up there with the twisted gargoyles. He looks at the broken tower which once climbed the highest but was broken by lightning. It must mention falling 5 or 6 times. Such a sad passage, especially when you know what is coming next. The Arya passage where Jon tells her she'll die with needle in her hand is also one that caught my attention. Also loved Tyrion's "Every dwarf is a *******, but every ******* need not be a dwarf" speech when he is talking to Jon Snow. I remembered this book being fantastic, but had forgotten just how good it really is.

I have no doubt that Jon Snow is the daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.
When I heard the new book was coming back, I went back and started re-reading the series as well. Very cool. Knowing what is coming really makes the series more enjoyable.With regard to your spoiler, I'm not sure I understand why you feel that way....
 
I just started listening to A Game of Thrones for a refresher. What strikes me is how the book just oozes with foreshadowing and symbolism. I just listed to the second Bran chapter where he climbs the broken tower. His wolf tries to warn him. He's up there with the crows. He's up there with the twisted gargoyles. He looks at the broken tower which once climbed the highest but was broken by lightning. It must mention falling 5 or 6 times. Such a sad passage, especially when you know what is coming next. The Arya passage where Jon tells her she'll die with needle in her hand is also one that caught my attention. Also loved Tyrion's "Every dwarf is a *******, but every ******* need not be a dwarf" speech when he is talking to Jon Snow. I remembered this book being fantastic, but had forgotten just how good it really is.

I have no doubt that Jon Snow is the daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.
I was more interested in the foreshadowing of Bran "looking north and seeing what was coming and why he needed to live" (or something to that effect). I actually thought those "falling" foreshadowings were a bit heavy handed. I agree with you on thinking it's very well done, especially after trying a number of other series, none of which were anything more than average at best. As for your spoiler, I was wondering about the parentage and keeping an eye out for hints. I'll be looking for clues to support your theory now. I really can't wait to see how Dinklage does playing Tyrion. Probably my most anticipated character/actor of the series.
 
Just saw a new (to me at least) extended "Iron Throne" trailer for the series. Apparently there will be a 15m sneak peak of episode 1 on April 3 at 9pm, EST I assume though it didn't say.

 
To those who have read both; Malazan or Wheel of Time?
Never read Malazan, but WoT rocks. Some say the middle books drag, but I enjoy the extremely detailed character developement and interactions. During those middle books, you never really got the feel that you were nearing the end of the books, but that was fine with me. Nobody has ever developed the number of characters as fully as Jordan. The only one that's come close is Martin. That's not to say that Martin's books aren't as good. I put them on an equal footing.
IMO - WoT is great, but certainly bogs down in the middle books. I haven't read the new stuff - will have to tackle those soon.Malazan, IMO, is dreck. I think the author likes to jump around to make it seem like a complex piece of literature. The plot really isn't that complex, but his short, jumping writing style leaves a lot to be desired. He reminds me a lot of James Rollins - jumping all over the place to "keep the action going." Bleh.Anyway, in my humble opinion if you want to dive into a great series of books read the "First Law" series from Joe Abercrombie. Spectacular set of books. Better than WoT or (certainly) Malazan, IMO. If you wanted a great single book pick up the "Golden Key" by Rawn and company.
Thanks for the input(everyone). I actually started Malazan because Gardens of the Moon was a really cheap download. Not terribly taken with it yet.
 
I just started listening to A Game of Thrones for a refresher. What strikes me is how the book just oozes with foreshadowing and symbolism. I just listed to the second Bran chapter where he climbs the broken tower. His wolf tries to warn him. He's up there with the crows. He's up there with the twisted gargoyles. He looks at the broken tower which once climbed the highest but was broken by lightning. It must mention falling 5 or 6 times. Such a sad passage, especially when you know what is coming next. The Arya passage where Jon tells her she'll die with needle in her hand is also one that caught my attention. Also loved Tyrion's "Every dwarf is a *******, but every ******* need not be a dwarf" speech when he is talking to Jon Snow. I remembered this book being fantastic, but had forgotten just how good it really is.

I have no doubt that Jon Snow is the daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.
I really can't wait to see how Dinklage does playing Tyrion. Probably my most anticipated character/actor of the series.Me too. He is, far and away, the most interesting to me.
 
To those who have read both; Malazan or Wheel of Time?
Never read Malazan, but WoT rocks. Some say the middle books drag, but I enjoy the extremely detailed character developement and interactions. During those middle books, you never really got the feel that you were nearing the end of the books, but that was fine with me. Nobody has ever developed the number of characters as fully as Jordan. The only one that's come close is Martin. That's not to say that Martin's books aren't as good. I put them on an equal footing.
IMO - WoT is great, but certainly bogs down in the middle books. I haven't read the new stuff - will have to tackle those soon.Malazan, IMO, is dreck. I think the author likes to jump around to make it seem like a complex piece of literature. The plot really isn't that complex, but his short, jumping writing style leaves a lot to be desired. He reminds me a lot of James Rollins - jumping all over the place to "keep the action going." Bleh.Anyway, in my humble opinion if you want to dive into a great series of books read the "First Law" series from Joe Abercrombie. Spectacular set of books. Better than WoT or (certainly) Malazan, IMO. If you wanted a great single book pick up the "Golden Key" by Rawn and company.
At the suggestion of this post I read the first book of First Law. IMO it was absolute drivel. More happened in the first chapter of GoT than in the entire FB book. Two dimensional characters. Too many elliptical explanations/inner thoughts so the reader gets no chance to read the subtext. I felt like I was reading a large print choldren's fantasy book and immediately deleted the rest of the series. No way it's better than the first 3 WoT books by any scale. It's not even better than Lynch's Gentlemen Bastards series. I would rather read the boring WoT books over and over than finish the FL series. Glad you like it, but comparing it to Jordan is like comparing the Guardian Angels to a SEAL team.
 
I just started listening to A Game of Thrones for a refresher. What strikes me is how the book just oozes with foreshadowing and symbolism. I just listed to the second Bran chapter where he climbs the broken tower. His wolf tries to warn him. He's up there with the crows. He's up there with the twisted gargoyles. He looks at the broken tower which once climbed the highest but was broken by lightning. It must mention falling 5 or 6 times. Such a sad passage, especially when you know what is coming next. The Arya passage where Jon tells her she'll die with needle in her hand is also one that caught my attention. Also loved Tyrion's "Every dwarf is a *******, but every ******* need not be a dwarf" speech when he is talking to Jon Snow. I remembered this book being fantastic, but had forgotten just how good it really is.

I have no doubt that Jon Snow is the daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.
Daughter?
 
I like his series of short stories about Tuf and his seedship. Interesting stuff, similar wit.

This thread is almost 5 years old now. Yikes.

 
I just started listening to A Game of Thrones for a refresher. What strikes me is how the book just oozes with foreshadowing and symbolism. I just listed to the second Bran chapter where he climbs the broken tower. His wolf tries to warn him. He's up there with the crows. He's up there with the twisted gargoyles. He looks at the broken tower which once climbed the highest but was broken by lightning. It must mention falling 5 or 6 times. Such a sad passage, especially when you know what is coming next. The Arya passage where Jon tells her she'll die with needle in her hand is also one that caught my attention. Also loved Tyrion's "Every dwarf is a *******, but every ******* need not be a dwarf" speech when he is talking to Jon Snow. I remembered this book being fantastic, but had forgotten just how good it really is.

I have no doubt that Jon Snow is the daughter of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.
Daughter? :lmao: no...son. *******, as it were.
 
I just started listening to A Game of Thrones for a refresher. What strikes me is how the book just oozes with foreshadowing and symbolism. I just listed to the second Bran chapter where he climbs the broken tower. His wolf tries to warn him. He's up there with the crows. He's up there with the twisted gargoyles. He looks at the broken tower which once climbed the highest but was broken by lightning. It must mention falling 5 or 6 times. Such a sad passage, especially when you know what is coming next.

The Arya passage where Jon tells her she'll die with needle in her hand is also one that caught my attention. Also loved Tyrion's "Every dwarf is a *******, but every ******* need not be a dwarf" speech when he is talking to Jon Snow. I remembered this book being fantastic, but had forgotten just how good it really is.

I have no doubt that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.
When I heard the new book was coming back, I went back and started re-reading the series as well. Very cool. Knowing what is coming really makes the series more enjoyable.With regard to your spoiler, I'm not sure I understand why you feel that way....

Link...tons of spoilers in that link. Very interesting and extensive site.
 
'Matthias said:
Do you do anything outside of work? Pursue other hobbies or watch some football? Who cares what the guy does with his time? What a bunch of ungrateful whiners.
I view it as the other way around. If you're Joseph Heller and write Catch-22, a great piece of fiction that's a stand-alone story, and decide to wait 40 years or whatever it was to write an inferior sequel, then fine. You had your inspiration, you went with it, then you went away and did other things. That's cool.

But basically all of George Martin's fame, money, everything is wound up in this series. He wrote other things but nobody really cared about them. In my eyes, he is being ungrateful to the people who are letting him afford the life that he wants by breaking an implicit promise to them to finish the series. I'm not saying he's being malignant by doing this but I would say he's being irresponsible and, yes, ungrateful.

And part of this may be because of what I wrote a year and a half ago(?) that Martin creates intrigue and I'm not sure that he has a clear plan to resolve it. It just baits the reader along and sounds cool. And while the readers are wondering how Martin is going to resolve it, Martin may right now be wondering the same thing.

FWIW, I borrowed the last book from the library and plan to do the same for any future volumes. I refuse to give any more money to the man.
OK, I've resisted for a while now, but George R.R. Martin is not your bitch.HTH

 
To those who have read both; Malazan or Wheel of Time?
Never read Malazan, but WoT rocks. Some say the middle books drag, but I enjoy the extremely detailed character developement and interactions. During those middle books, you never really got the feel that you were nearing the end of the books, but that was fine with me. Nobody has ever developed the number of characters as fully as Jordan. The only one that's come close is Martin. That's not to say that Martin's books aren't as good. I put them on an equal footing.
IMO - WoT is great, but certainly bogs down in the middle books. I haven't read the new stuff - will have to tackle those soon.Malazan, IMO, is dreck. I think the author likes to jump around to make it seem like a complex piece of literature. The plot really isn't that complex, but his short, jumping writing style leaves a lot to be desired. He reminds me a lot of James Rollins - jumping all over the place to "keep the action going." Bleh.Anyway, in my humble opinion if you want to dive into a great series of books read the "First Law" series from Joe Abercrombie. Spectacular set of books. Better than WoT or (certainly) Malazan, IMO. If you wanted a great single book pick up the "Golden Key" by Rawn and company.
At the suggestion of this post I read the first book of First Law. IMO it was absolute drivel. More happened in the first chapter of GoT than in the entire FB book. Two dimensional characters. Too many elliptical explanations/inner thoughts so the reader gets no chance to read the subtext. I felt like I was reading a large print choldren's fantasy book and immediately deleted the rest of the series. No way it's better than the first 3 WoT books by any scale. It's not even better than Lynch's Gentlemen Bastards series. I would rather read the boring WoT books over and over than finish the FL series. Glad you like it, but comparing it to Jordan is like comparing the Guardian Angels to a SEAL team.
:lmao: Just goes to show how tastes are different. I'm glad you tried it - sorry you didn't like it. First Law isn't as deep as WoT (which was an incredible series through about book 4 or 5), but I found the storytelling to be excellent. I don't expect Umberto Eco in these books. I also happened to really like Lynch's books, too - good suggestion.
 
Here’s my 2c on the discussion of good current fantasy series.

GRRM and RJ are the cream of the crop. They have the interesting plots and characters, are easily readable and deliver the goods with big finishes. I am always left wanting more after finishing one of their books.

Steven Erikson’s Malazan books are fantastic. The depth of history, the huge cast of characters and all the different plotlines are what have drawn me in and made me such a big fan. The story lines are all seemingly distinct and unrelated at first, yet they are coming together as the overall arc of the series unfolds. The first book was pretty hard to get into and I actually gave up on it half way through the first time through. But I am so glad I gave it another read. The 2nd and 3rd books are among my fav books of the genre. The Chain of Dogs and the Siege of Capustan are very moving. My biggest criticism so far is that every other hero/villain seems to be powerful enough to destroy the world, but Its also part of the fun of the books. A couple of other books set in the Malazan world and written by Ian Cameron Esslemont have been very good as well (2nd is better than 1st) and have added even more detail and depth to the world and the main story line.

Glen Cook’s Black Company Series, which I have not seen mentioned yet is another great set of books. Also, R. Scott Bakker’s Prince of Nothing/Aspect Emperor series has been very enjoyable so far as well.

I read Abercrombie and while it was a pretty easy read with some memorable moments, I was overall a bit disappointed with the quality of the writing.

 
'Matthias said:
OK, I've resisted for a while now, but George R.R. Martin is not your bitch.

HTH
I read that a while ago; it's linked on p1 of this thread in fact.But as much as I respect Gaiman as a writer, I don't agree with his essay. It's a catchy phrase and all and strictly and legally he's right, George Martin is not working for any of us. But that conclusion really doesn't alter the meat of what he's writing about. If Martin had a contract with the publishing house to produce 1 book every 3 years and he was behind schedule, the substance of Gaiman's critique would be essentially unaltered. Sometimes writers do other stuff. Sometimes it's hard to write and sometimes not writing helps the writing. What can you do.

And sometimes I do other stuff. I might go to a baseball game instead of doing that week's laundry. Am I allowed to do that? Sure. Is it responsible for me to do that if my wife and I have divvied up the household chores and this is on my plate? No. Does that make me her #####? No. It's just not the right thing to do. There's an agreement, in my case explicit in Martin's case implicit, that this work will be done in a timeframe normally considered. One is always free to walk away from those agreements or expectations. But it's certainly not something I would approve of or defend.

Gaiman writes from an easier position to say all this, of course, because the one series-related work which he did write, the Sandman, came out every single month. And the story arc concluded in a way that, reading the early issues, Gaiman laid out and set the stage for. And he actually concluded the series, or at least give it a conclusion that was acceptable to his readership. If Gaiman had just walked away after issue 25, people would be pissed at him, too.
I've seen people put forth these arguments of why Martin is screwing his fans by comparing them to examples from other aspects of life. But the fact is that you can't compare some mundane mechanical task to writing a freaking novel. As angry as everyone is, they would have been ten times as mad if he had just churned out some garbage with a neat little conclusion just to placate those that wanted their novel three years ago. Or you can argue that he could have written a high quality novel much quicker if he had just been a little more diligent. But to that I would argue that you have no idea whatsoever of what the guy could or couldn't have done if he had watched a little less football or gone to a few less cons, and it is awfully presumptuous to believe otherwise. Bunch of selfish jackals to suggest that the guy is breaking some implicit promise because they had to wait a few more years. He didn't walk away from the series. He didn't even say that he was going to take a break and chill for a while. What he did say is that he really, really wished he could get the book out there but he was flat-out stuck on some critical plot points. The fact that the response to that is anything but 'OK thanks George, take your time and get it right' astounds me.

 
Thanks for the input(everyone). I actually started Malazan because Gardens of the Moon was a really cheap download. Not terribly taken with it yet.
Gardens of the Moon is tough to get through, especially the first time. Many readers give up at that point. But those who push through and read the 2nd book usually get hooked. If you read the 2nd book and don't like it, then the series is not for you.
 
Thanks for the input(everyone). I actually started Malazan because Gardens of the Moon was a really cheap download. Not terribly taken with it yet.
Gardens of the Moon is tough to get through, especially the first time. Many readers give up at that point. But those who push through and read the 2nd book usually get hooked. If you read the 2nd book and don't like it, then the series is not for you.
funny - i thought gardens of the moon was pretty good - had no trouble going through it and buying everything else in the series that was already in print...i will say erikson has ruined me for fantasy. no one else comes close so i've reverted to hard-scifi/miltary sci-fi.
 
I'm excited for this news. Yeah, it's been tough waiting for the next book these last 4 years or so, but I'm glad it's finally arriving. I don't feel that I'm entitled to this series being finished like many in here seem too, so him taking a long time is more annoying than upsetting.

I don't think GRRM ever expected to make this series as deep as it is he first started writing the first book. However, now he's got 100 character arcs to take care of and needs to get them all either killed off or in position for the final struggle and it hasn't been easy figuring out how to do that. If he really has gotten the story arcs in a better position, then the final two books shouldn't be nearly as difficult to write IMO.

 
I'm excited for this news. Yeah, it's been tough waiting for the next book these last 4 years or so, but I'm glad it's finally arriving. I don't feel that I'm entitled to this series being finished like many in here seem too, so him taking a long time is more annoying than upsetting. I don't think GRRM ever expected to make this series as deep as it is he first started writing the first book. However, now he's got 100 character arcs to take care of and needs to get them all either killed off or in position for the final struggle and it hasn't been easy figuring out how to do that. If he really has gotten the story arcs in a better position, then the final two books shouldn't be nearly as difficult to write IMO.
Martin's original layout was for the series to be a trilogy. For example, the Red Wedding was originally supposed to happen in the first book not the 3rd. He also screwed himself in book 3 by getting his timelines all out of whack and also by scrapping the five year gap that was supposed to take place between book 3 and book 4. So he had to rewrite (or dispose of) much of what he already had, and also come up with new/expanded material to fill in the now-gone gap. Feast and Dance were, IMO, so hard for Martin to write and took so long because he had to fix those issues. It's my feeling that Dance will get him to where he wanted to be originally (though with obviously different details) and that the last two books will be easier for him to write.
 
'Uruk-Hai said:
'encaitar said:
I'm excited for this news. Yeah, it's been tough waiting for the next book these last 4 years or so, but I'm glad it's finally arriving. I don't feel that I'm entitled to this series being finished like many in here seem too, so him taking a long time is more annoying than upsetting. I don't think GRRM ever expected to make this series as deep as it is he first started writing the first book. However, now he's got 100 character arcs to take care of and needs to get them all either killed off or in position for the final struggle and it hasn't been easy figuring out how to do that. If he really has gotten the story arcs in a better position, then the final two books shouldn't be nearly as difficult to write IMO.
Martin's original layout was for the series to be a trilogy. For example, the Red Wedding was originally supposed to happen in the first book not the 3rd. He also screwed himself in book 3 by getting his timelines all out of whack and also by scrapping the five year gap that was supposed to take place between book 3 and book 4. So he had to rewrite (or dispose of) much of what he already had, and also come up with new/expanded material to fill in the now-gone gap. Feast and Dance were, IMO, so hard for Martin to write and took so long because he had to fix those issues. It's my feeling that Dance will get him to where he wanted to be originally (though with obviously different details) and that the last two books will be easier for him to write.
I agree with much of what you say here. My only pseudo-beef with GRRM is that during all the time since the last book, he has been very active on other projects. And very vocal about those projects. It kind of reminds me of how the Sopranos ultimately wound up. I loved the first few seasons and as it went on, I got the feeling the producers forgot what made the show so popular in the first place. I like a good dream sequence from time to time, but lets face it, I tuned in to watch the cool mob interactions, wacks, heists etc. I wouldn't mind the long layoff between books quite so much if everytime I went to the bookstore, I didn't see another book or short story of his coming out or reading how he is travelling all over the world promoting this or that.....just my two cents.
 
Thanks for the input(everyone). I actually started Malazan because Gardens of the Moon was a really cheap download. Not terribly taken with it yet.
Gardens of the Moon is tough to get through, especially the first time. Many readers give up at that point. But those who push through and read the 2nd book usually get hooked. If you read the 2nd book and don't like it, then the series is not for you.
i found gardens confusing at first but at about half way through or so it was a fast readagree the 2nd book is where things pick up and you never look back
 
RE: Malazan vs WoT, Malazan is a lot of work to get through. There are a billion characters to keep track of, many of whom disappear for books at a time, the narrators are frequently unreliable, it is bleak and dark and depressing a lot of the time, and characters that you get attached to die with alarming frequency. You will also end up wondering exactly WTF just happened a lot of the time at the end of a scene, and it may or may not be clarified by the end of the book or the series as a whole. My other main problem with Malazan is the relative power of the players - at different times, characters seem impotent and ominpotent, sometimes without having any apparent reason why. Erikson also has a bad habit of resolving a conflict by dropping a random passerby in at the exact moment needed to move the plot along.

All that said, I enjoyed Malazan a lot and look forward to a re-read in light of the ultimate conclusion of the story. I like that you never know who might die and as an earlier poster said, stuff happens in books 1 and 2 that matters and foreshadows events in books 9 and 10.

WoT is much easier to follow, has interesting and well-drawn characters, and is in a more conventional high-fantasy world. Criticim of the WoT mainly center in the bogging down of the plot in the middle of the series, the profusion of minor plot threads at the same time, the repetitive gender-based differences, and the emo-squallor of two of the main characters from time to time. That said, I re-read the whole thing in between the last two books and a lot of my problems with books 7-10 or so were based on having to WAIT SO DAMN LONG in between books. If you are coming to it fresh, it won't bother you so much to have to wade through crossroads of twilight to see what happens to Rand.

Sanderson is supposed to finish WoT off with the last book released in Spring 2012.

 
After the HBO series sparked my interest I decided to start reading the series. Seems like I lucked out just getting into it now and not having to endure the 5 year wait for books or so. In the past week I have read the GOT and Clash of Kings. Plan to start the third book in the series near the end of May. What would everyone say is the strongest book so far in the series?

 
After the HBO series sparked my interest I decided to start reading the series. Seems like I lucked out just getting into it now and not having to endure the 5 year wait for books or so. In the past week I have read the GOT and Clash of Kings. Plan to start the third book in the series near the end of May. What would everyone say is the strongest book so far in the series?
Storm of Swords is awesome. The weakest was the latest one Feast for Crows. You will regret your decision in time, when the next wait is in excess of 5 years after you are caught up. :yes:
 
After the HBO series sparked my interest I decided to start reading the series. Seems like I lucked out just getting into it now and not having to endure the 5 year wait for books or so. In the past week I have read the GOT and Clash of Kings. Plan to start the third book in the series near the end of May. What would everyone say is the strongest book so far in the series?
Storm of Swords is awesome. The weakest was the latest one Feast for Crows. You will regret your decision in time, when the next wait is in excess of 5 years after you are caught up. :yes:
This is Gospel. I think Feast reads better on reread (it ends really strongly but meanders in the middle) but it is the weakest and Storm is clearly better than Clash and Game which are both great.
 
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After the HBO series sparked my interest I decided to start reading the series. Seems like I lucked out just getting into it now and not having to endure the 5 year wait for books or so. In the past week I have read the GOT and Clash of Kings. Plan to start the third book in the series near the end of May. What would everyone say is the strongest book so far in the series?
Storm Of Swords (book 3). One punch to the gut after another. Twice I had to walk away from the book(I'm sure people know which two incidences I'm referring to) and there were several others that were almost as powerful.As for Feast For Crows (book 4), I think it's a misunderstood entry in the series. Just taken on its own, I can see where people are disappointed in it - no Tyrion, Jon, or Dany. That's on Martin and the publishers for the way they split AFFC & Dance (book 5 that's coming out this summer) - originally scheduled to be one book before it got too unwieldy - by character rather than time. It's compounded by the fact that we've had to wait 6 years for the other "half" to come out. Once the series is finished (or really - once Dance is issued), in theory a reader could tear the two books apart & reorder the chapters. I think then, that "A Dance With Crows" would be much more enjoyable. I also think had Tyrion and/or Jon and/or Dany been in it, a lot of the flak it gets would go away.

That having been said, I like Feast a lot. It's a resetting of the stage after the breakneck, brutal pace of Storm. But I think it's got some of Martin's best writing and those who say "nothing happens" may really mean "nothing happens to my favorite characters". A LOT happens and there's also a ton of (mostly) necessary exposition for the rest of the series.

 
Well, instead of waiting for my local library to have the books returned to finish the series I just decided to take the jump and get a Kindle and ended up finishing a Feast for Crows today. The books were/are really addicting... Within a weeks time I finished all four of the published books, just couldn't really put them down. Good to know that the next book should be coming out soon.

Was a little disappointed with a Feast for Crows but that was expected from the comments I saw here. I have never really been invested in the ironblood storyline so it was somewhat of a task to muscle through those chapters. Found myself being a little more sympathetic to Jaime as a character as well as enjoying the Arya storylines.

Not sure if people use spoilers in this thread but not sure how I feel about Littlefinger. I find him to be one of the most fascinating characters in the storylines but also cringe at times with him but it seems that all his actions are meticulously planned. I didn't like the scene with him and Sansa kissing but figure that he knew Lysa would be watching and it was all part of a plan to kill her rather than an attraction to Sansa. Also very glad that Sansa has matured a little bit, some of her actions in the previously books just really frustrated me kinda like a Kim Bauer character in 24.

I might have missed it when reading but where is Rickon off to? In the third book you get plenty of Bran and it seems he has gone off past the wall in search of some old magic or the children of the forest but no mention of Rickon through any of the other characters and I don't think he shows up anywhere within someone else's chapters kinda like Arya popping up in Samwell's chapter.

Finally the Red Wedding was just brutal to read. I really liked Robb as a character but figured he would die off soon enough since he never got a narrative.
 
I'm excited for this news. Yeah, it's been tough waiting for the next book these last 4 years or so, but I'm glad it's finally arriving. I don't feel that I'm entitled to this series being finished like many in here seem too, so him taking a long time is more annoying than upsetting. I don't think GRRM ever expected to make this series as deep as it is he first started writing the first book. However, now he's got 100 character arcs to take care of and needs to get them all either killed off or in position for the final struggle and it hasn't been easy figuring out how to do that. If he really has gotten the story arcs in a better position, then the final two books shouldn't be nearly as difficult to write IMO.
Martin's original layout was for the series to be a trilogy. For example, the Red Wedding was originally supposed to happen in the first book not the 3rd. He also screwed himself in book 3 by getting his timelines all out of whack and also by scrapping the five year gap that was supposed to take place between book 3 and book 4. So he had to rewrite (or dispose of) much of what he already had, and also come up with new/expanded material to fill in the now-gone gap. Feast and Dance were, IMO, so hard for Martin to write and took so long because he had to fix those issues. It's my feeling that Dance will get him to where he wanted to be originally (though with obviously different details) and that the last two books will be easier for him to write.
I agree with much of what you say here. My only pseudo-beef with GRRM is that during all the time since the last book, he has been very active on other projects. And very vocal about those projects. It kind of reminds me of how the Sopranos ultimately wound up. I loved the first few seasons and as it went on, I got the feeling the producers forgot what made the show so popular in the first place. I like a good dream sequence from time to time, but lets face it, I tuned in to watch the cool mob interactions, wacks, heists etc. I wouldn't mind the long layoff between books quite so much if everytime I went to the bookstore, I didn't see another book or short story of his coming out or reading how he is travelling all over the world promoting this or that.....just my two cents.
:goodposting: I will also add that I do consider it to be a responsibility of a popular and ESTABLISHED writer to finish a series that he has started when the story is continuous (as this one is). I do in fact take offense at such a long break.
 
Was checking out a message board and they had an interesting theory about Jon Snow's parents, was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this,

Seems like a vast majority of people believe in the R + L = J theory, being Prince Rhaegar and Lyanna had a son which would be Jon Snow and Eddard took an oath to protect him
 
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Was checking out a message board and they had an interesting theory about Jon Snow's parents, was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this,

Seems like a vast majority of people believe in the R + L = J theory, being Prince Rhaegar and Lyanna had a son which would be Jon Snow and Eddard took an oath to protect him
There's an 800* page thread over at FoIF dedicated to this. I think it's a foregone conclusion, especially after re-reading the books with that theory in mind and the deliberately vague ways GRRM describes the flashbacks.
Given that I think it's a given, the questions I have on it are was it consensual? Did Rhaegar kidnap her or did she "elope" with him. And what made her die? Regular complications of childbirth? Supernatural/Valyrian/Magic issues of prophecy requiring the death of the mother of the One?
Another thought I have on this is, how much does an author benefit from this type of debate about his books? This one seems like something that was planned from the start, but with so many people delving into the books so deeply and creatively, I wonder how many ideas for the series GRRM never even thought of that he can just lift from forums? Because most of the time the theories get so flushed out and hashed over that all the homework needed to make it a "planned" part of the story are already done by fan theorists.*not really 800, but it is THE big pinned thread in the forums.

 
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I'm excited for this news. Yeah, it's been tough waiting for the next book these last 4 years or so, but I'm glad it's finally arriving. I don't feel that I'm entitled to this series being finished like many in here seem too, so him taking a long time is more annoying than upsetting.

I don't think GRRM ever expected to make this series as deep as it is he first started writing the first book. However, now he's got 100 character arcs to take care of and needs to get them all either killed off or in position for the final struggle and it hasn't been easy figuring out how to do that. If he really has gotten the story arcs in a better position, then the final two books shouldn't be nearly as difficult to write IMO.
Martin's original layout was for the series to be a trilogy. For example, the Red Wedding was originally supposed to happen in the first book not the 3rd. He also screwed himself in book 3 by getting his timelines all out of whack and also by scrapping the five year gap that was supposed to take place between book 3 and book 4. So he had to rewrite (or dispose of) much of what he already had, and also come up with new/expanded material to fill in the now-gone gap. Feast and Dance were, IMO, so hard for Martin to write and took so long because he had to fix those issues. It's my feeling that Dance will get him to where he wanted to be originally (though with obviously different details) and that the last two books will be easier for him to write.
I agree with much of what you say here. My only pseudo-beef with GRRM is that during all the time since the last book, he has been very active on other projects. And very vocal about those projects. It kind of reminds me of how the Sopranos ultimately wound up. I loved the first few seasons and as it went on, I got the feeling the producers forgot what made the show so popular in the first place. I like a good dream sequence from time to time, but lets face it, I tuned in to watch the cool mob interactions, wacks, heists etc.

I wouldn't mind the long layoff between books quite so much if everytime I went to the bookstore, I didn't see another book or short story of his coming out or reading how he is travelling all over the world promoting this or that.....just my two cents.
:goodposting: I will also add that I do consider it to be a responsibility of a popular and ESTABLISHED writer to finish a series that he has started when the story is continuous (as this one is). I do in fact take offense at such a long break.
I disagree. Look how King got villified for rushing the last three books of the Dark Tower (no doubt by some of the same that were pissed he took so long between 3-4 and 4-5). And wouldn't Martin stand to benefit the most the faster he got the books out? Being 10-11 years into this series, I want it done as much as anyone. But as frustrating as the wait is, I can't find it in me to be offended at Martin doing his thing.
 
Was checking out a message board and they had an interesting theory about Jon Snow's parents, was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this,

Seems like a vast majority of people believe in the R + L = J theory, being Prince Rhaegar and Lyanna had a son which would be Jon Snow and Eddard took an oath to protect him
There's an 800* page thread over at FoIF dedicated to this. I think it's a foregone conclusion, especially after re-reading the books with that theory in mind and the deliberately vague ways GRRM describes the flashbacks.
Given that I think it's a given, the questions I have on it are was it consensual? Did Rhaegar kidnap her or did she "elope" with him. And what made her die? Regular complications of childbirth? Supernatural/Valyrian/Magic issues of prophecy requiring the death of the mother of the One?
Another thought I have on this is, how much does an author benefit from this type of debate about his books? This one seems like something that was planned from the start, but with so many people delving into the books so deeply and creatively, I wonder how many ideas for the series GRRM never even thought of that he can just lift from forums? Because most of the time the theories get so flushed out and hashed over that all the homework needed to make it a "planned" part of the story are already done by fan theorists.*not really 800, but it is THE big pinned thread in the forums.

That thread is in about its millionth edition now, so I think 800 pages is a low estimate (I think that MB stops threads after 20 or 21 pages, so new threads need to be started to continue).I think your last thought is very interesting. Martin says he doesn't cruise the forums that discuss his books, but his wife does (she's a member at the ASOIAF mb, but doesn't get into plot discussions). I could see where a writer might get swayed on future plot points, but I have a feeling that Hardhead Martin doesn't. And I'm sure that the message board posters go further into detail than the author (generally speaking) ever dreamed, which I guess could be a royal PITA.
I think RL was consensual and that her death was an accident.
 
Back when I split A FEAST FOR CROWS into two books, I said in my infamous afterword, "Meanwhile, Back at the Wall..." that Tyrion, Dany, and Jon Snow would be back in the next book, and so they are. Those three characters dominate A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Out of 73 chapters, 35 concern their exploits; sixteen viewpoints, aye, but just three of them make up almost half of the book. The next largest chunk o' chapters belongs to an old POV character who has been missing for a couple of books, but now returns to us... rather the worse for wear.

Yes, some of the characters who were featured as POVs in A FEAST FOR CROWS will reappear, since the timeframe covered by DANCE extends well beyond that of FEAST. Tyrion is not the only Lannister with a viewpoint. Cersei and Jaime will have chapters as well, though... be warned... not a lot of them. Arya is also on hand. And we'll check in with Bran and his companions as well, on their long cold trek beyond the Wall. There are two Dornish POVs (one old, one new), and three ironborn(all previous POVs).
It's gotta be Theon Greyjoy right?
 
Back when I split A FEAST FOR CROWS into two books, I said in my infamous afterword, "Meanwhile, Back at the Wall..." that Tyrion, Dany, and Jon Snow would be back in the next book, and so they are. Those three characters dominate A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Out of 73 chapters, 35 concern their exploits; sixteen viewpoints, aye, but just three of them make up almost half of the book. The next largest chunk o' chapters belongs to an old POV character who has been missing for a couple of books, but now returns to us... rather the worse for wear.

Yes, some of the characters who were featured as POVs in A FEAST FOR CROWS will reappear, since the timeframe covered by DANCE extends well beyond that of FEAST. Tyrion is not the only Lannister with a viewpoint. Cersei and Jaime will have chapters as well, though... be warned... not a lot of them. Arya is also on hand. And we'll check in with Bran and his companions as well, on their long cold trek beyond the Wall. There are two Dornish POVs (one old, one new), and three ironborn(all previous POVs).
It's gotta be Theon Greyjoy right?
Hopefully it isn't Ned Stark!
 
Back when I split A FEAST FOR CROWS into two books, I said in my infamous afterword, "Meanwhile, Back at the Wall..." that Tyrion, Dany, and Jon Snow would be back in the next book, and so they are. Those three characters dominate A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Out of 73 chapters, 35 concern their exploits; sixteen viewpoints, aye, but just three of them make up almost half of the book. The next largest chunk o' chapters belongs to an old POV character who has been missing for a couple of books, but now returns to us... rather the worse for wear.

Yes, some of the characters who were featured as POVs in A FEAST FOR CROWS will reappear, since the timeframe covered by DANCE extends well beyond that of FEAST. Tyrion is not the only Lannister with a viewpoint. Cersei and Jaime will have chapters as well, though... be warned... not a lot of them. Arya is also on hand. And we'll check in with Bran and his companions as well, on their long cold trek beyond the Wall. There are two Dornish POVs (one old, one new), and three ironborn(all previous POVs).
It's gotta be Theon Greyjoy right?
Theon is now known as Reek.....

An extract from George R R Martin’s A Dance with Dragons

The rat squealed as he bit into it, squirming wildly in his hands. The belly was the softest part. He tore at the sweet meat, the warm blood running over his lips. It was so good that it brought tears to his eyes. His belly rumbled and he swallowed. By the third bite the rat had ceased to struggle, and he was feeling almost content.

Then he heard the sounds of voices outside the dungeon door.

At once he stilled, fearing even to chew. His mouth was full of blood and flesh and hair, but he dared not spit or swallow. He listened in terror to the scuff of boots and the clanking of iron keys. No, he thought, please gods, not now. It had taken him so long to catch the rat. If they catch me with it they will take it away, and then Lord Ramsay will hurt me.

He knew he ought to hide the rat, but he was so hungry. It had been two days since he had eaten, or maybe three. Down here in the dark it was hard to tell. Though his arms and legs were thin as reeds, his belly was swollen and hollow, and ached so much that he found himself remembering Lady Hornwood. After their wedding, Lord Ramsay had locked her away in a tower and starved her to death. In the end she had eaten her own fingers.

He crouched down in a corner of his cell, clutching his prize. Blood ran from the corners of his mouth as he tore at the rat with his teeth, trying to bolt down as much of the warm flesh as he could. The meat was stringy, but so rich he thought he might be sick. He chewed and swallowed, feeling the small bones crunch between his teeth.

The sounds were growing louder. Please gods, he isn’t coming for me. There were other cells, other prisoners. Sometimes he heard them screaming, even through the thick stone walls. The women always scream the loudest. He sucked at the raw meat and tried to spit out the leg bone, but it only dribbled over his lower lip and tangled in his beard. Go away, he prayed, go away, pass me by, please, please.

But the footsteps stopped just when they were loudest, and the keys clattered right outside the door. The rat fell from his fingers. His heels scrabbled at the straw as he tried to push himself into the corner.

The sound of the lock turning was the most terrible of all. When the light hit him full in the face, he let out a shriek.

“That’s not him,” said a boy’s voice. “Look at him. We’ve got the wrong cell.”

“Last cell on the left,” another boy replied. “This is the last cell on the left, isn’t it?”

“Aye.” A pause. “What’s he saying?”

“I don’t think he likes the light.”

“Would you, if you looked like that?” The boy hawked and spat. “And the stench of him. I’m like to choke.”

“He’s been eating rats,” said the second boy. “Look.”

The first boy laughed. “He has. That’s funny.”

I had to, he thought. The rats bit him when he slept, gnawing at his fingers and his toes, even at his face, so when he got his hands on one he did not hesitate. Eat or be eaten, those were the only choices. “I did it,” he mumbled, “I did, I did, I ate him, they do the same to me, please...”

The boys moved closer, the straw crunching softly under their feet. “Talk to me,” said one of them. He was the smaller of the two, a thin boy, but clever. “Tell me your name.”

My name. A scream caught in his throat. They had taught him his name, they had, but it had been so long that he’d forgotten. If I say it was wrong he’ll take another finger, or worse, he’ll... “Please,” he squeaked, his voice thin and weak. He sounded a hundred years old. Perhaps he was. How long have I been in here?

“Reek,” said the larger of the boys. “Your name is Reek. Remember?” He was the one with the torch. The smaller boy had the ring of iron keys.

Reek? Tears ran down his cheeks. “I remember. I do.” His mouth opened and closed. “My name is Reek. It rhymes with bleak.” In the dark he did not need a name, so it was easy to forget. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. He had not been born with that name. In another life he had been someone else, but here and now, his name was Reek. He remembered.

He remembered the boys as well. They were clad in matching lambswool doublets, silver-grey with dark blue trim. Both were squires, both were eight, and both were Walder Frey. Big Walder and Little Walder, yes. Only the big one was Little, and the little one was Big, which amused the boys and confused the rest of the world. “I know you,” he whispered, through cracked lips. “I know your names.”

“You’re to come with us,” said Little Walder.

“His lordship has need of you,” said Big Walder.

Fear went through him like a knife. They are only children, he thought. Two boys of eight. He could overcome two boys of eight, surely. Even as weak as he was, he could take the torch, take the keys, take the dagger sheathed on Little Walder’s hip, escape. No, it is too easy. It is a trap. If I run, he will take another finger from me, he will take more of my teeth.

Serve and obey and remember who you are, and no more harm will come to you. He promised, his lordship promised. Even if he had wanted to resist, he did not have the strength. It had been scourged from him, starved from him, flayed from him. When Big Walder pulled him up and Little Walder waved the torch at him to herd him from the cell, he went along as docile as a dog. If he had a tail, he would have tucked it down between his legs.

Out in the yard, night was settling over the Dreadfort and a full moon was rising over the castle’s eastern walls. Its pale light cast the shadows of the tall triangular merlons across the frozen ground, a line of sharp black teeth. The air was cold and damp and full of half-forgotten smells. The world, Reek told himself, this is what the world smells like. He did not know how long he had been down there in the dungeons, but it had to have been half a year at least. What if it had been five years, or ten, or twenty? Would I even know? What if I went mad down there, and half my life is gone? But no, that was folly. The boys were still boys. If it had been ten years, they would have grown into men. He had to remember that. I must not let him drive me mad. He can take my fingers and my toes, he can put out my eyes and slice my ears off, but he cannot take my wits unless I let him.

Little Walder led the way with torch in hand. Reek followed meekly, with Big Walder just behind him. The dogs in the kennels barked as they went by. Wind swirled through the yard, cutting through the thin cloth of the filthy rags he wore and raising gooseprickles on his skin. The night air was cold and damp, but he saw no sign of snow, though surely winter was close at hand. Reek wondered if he would be alive to see the snows come. How many fingers will I have? How many toes? When he raised a hand, he was shocked to see how white it was, how fleshless. I have an old man’s hands. Could he have been wrong about the boys? What if they were not Little Walder and Big Walder after all, but the sons of the boys he’d known?

The great hall was dim and smoky. Rows of torches burned to the left and right, grasped by skeletal human hands jutting from the walls. High overhead were wooden rafters black from smoke, and a vaulted ceiling lost in shadow. The air was heavy with the smells of wine and ale and roasted meat. Reek’s stomach rumbled noisily at the scents, and his mouth began to water.

Little Walder pushed him stumbling past the long tables where the men of the garrison were eating. He could feel their eyes upon him. The best places, up near the dais, were occupied by Ramsay’s favorites. But there were strangers too, faces he did not know. Some wrinkled their noses as he passed, whilst others laughed at the sight of him.

At the high table the ******* of Bolton sat in his lord father’s seat, drinking from his father’s cup. Two old men shared the high table with him, and Reek knew at a glance that both were lords. One was gaunt, with flinty eyes, a long white beard, and a face as hard as a winter frost. His jerkin was a ragged bearskin, worn and greasy. Underneath he wore a ringmail byrnie, even here at table. The second lord was thin as well, but twisted where the first was straight. One of his shoulders was much higher than the other, and he stooped over his trencher like a vulture over carrion. His eyes were grey and greedy, his teeth yellow, his forked beard a tangle of snow and silver. Only a few wisps of white hair still clung to his spotted skull, but the cloak he wore was soft and fine, grey wool trimmed with clack sable and fastened at the shoulder with a starburst wrought in beaten silver.

Ramsay was clad in black and pink; black boots, black belt and scabbard, black leather jerkin over a pink velvet doublet slashed with dark red satin. In his right ear gleamed a garnet cut in the shape of a drop of blood. Yet for all the splendor of his garb, he remained an ugly man, big-boned and slope-shouldered, with a fleshiness to him that suggested that in later life he would run to fat. His skin was pink and blotchy, his nose broad, his mouth small, his hair long and dark and dry. His lips were wide and meaty, but the thing men noticed first about him were his eyes. He had his lord father’s eyes; small, close-set, queerly pale. Ghost grey, some men called the shade, but in truth his eyes were all but colorless, like two chips of dirty ice.

At the sight of Reek, he smiled. “There he is. My sour old friend.” To the men beside him he said, “Reek has been with me since I was a boy. My lord father gave him to me, as a token of his love.”

The two lords exchanged a look. “I had heard your serving man was dead,” said the one with the stooped shoulder. “Slain by the Starks, they said.”

Lord Ramsay chuckled. “The ironmen will tell you that what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. Like Reek. He smells of the grave, though, I grant you that.”

“He smells of nightsoil and stale vomit.” The stoop-shouldered old lord tossed aside the bone that he’d been gnawing on and wiped his fingers on the tablecloth. “Is there some reason you must needs inflict him upon us whilst we’re eating?”

The straight-backed old man in the mail byrnie studied Reek with flinty eyes. “Look again,” he urged the other lord. “His hair’s gone white and he is three stone thinner, but this is no serving man. Have you forgotten?”

The crookback lord looked again and gave a sudden snort. “Him? Can it be? Stark’s ward. Smiling, always smiling.”

“He smiles less often now,” Lord Ramsay confessed. “I may have broken some of his pretty white teeth.”

“You would have done better to slit his throat,” said the lord in mail. “A dog who turns against his master is fit for naught but skinning.”

“Oh, he’s been skinned, here and there,” said Ramsay.

“Yes, my lord. I was bad, my lord. Insolent and...” He licked his lip, trying to think of what else he had done. Serve and obey, he told himself, and he’ll let you live, and keep the parts that you still have. Serve and obey and remember your name. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with meek.

“There’s blood on your mouth,” Ramsay observed. “Have you been chewing on your fingers again, Reek?”

“No. No, my lord, I swear.” Reek had tried to bite his own ring finger off once, to stop it hurting after they had stripped the skin from it. Lord Ramsay would never simply cut off a man’s finger. He preferred to flay it, and let the exposed flesh dry and crack and fester. Reek had been whipped and racked and cut, but there was no pain half so excruciating as the pain that followed flaying. It was the sort of pain that drove men mad, and it could not be endured for long. Sooner or later the victim would scream, “Please, no more, stop it hurting, cut it off,” and Lord Ramsay would oblige. It was a game they played. Reek had learned the rules well, but the one time he had forgotten and tried to end the pain himself with his teeth, Ramsay had not been pleased, and the offense had cost Reek another toe. “I ate a rat,” he mumbled.

“A rat?” Ramsay’s pale eyes glittered in the torchlight. “All the rats in the Dreadfort belong to my lord father. How dare you make a meal of one without my leave?”

Reek did not know what to say, so he said nothing. One wrong word could cost him another toe, even a finger. Thus far he had lost two fingers off his left hand and the pinky off his right, but only the little toe off his right foot against three from his left. Sometimes Ramsay would make japes about balancing him out. He does not want to hurt me, he told me so, he only does it when I give him cause. His lord was merciful and kind. He might have flayed his face off for some of the things Reek had said, before he learned his true name and proper place.

Lord Ramsay filled his cup with ale. “Reek, I have glad tidings for you. I am to be wed. My lord father is bringing me a Stark girl. Lord Eddard’s daughter, Arya. You remember little Arya, don’t you?”

Arya Underfoot, he almost said. Arya Horseface. Robb’s younger sister, brown-haired, long-faced, skinny as a stick, always dirty. Sansa was the pretty one. He remembered a time when he had thought that Lord Eddard Stark might marry him to Sansa and claim him for a son, but that had only been a child’s fancy. Arya, though... “I remember her. Arya.”

“She shall be the Lady of Winterfell, and me her lord.”

She is only a girl. “Yes, my lord. Congratulations.”

“Will you attend me at my wedding, Reek?”

He hesitated. “If you wish it, my lord.”

“Oh, I do.”

He hesitated again, wondering if this was some cruel trap. “Yes, my lord. If it please you. I would be honored.”

“We must take you out of that vile dungeon, then. Scrub you pink again, get you some clean clothes, some food to eat. I have a little task for you, and you’ll need your strength back if you are to serve me. You do want to serve me, I know.”

“Yes, my lord. More than anything.” A shiver went through him. “I’m your Reek. Please let me serve you. Please.”

“Since you ask so nicely, how can I deny you?” Ramsay Bolton smiled. “I ride to war, Reek. And you will be coming with me, to help me fetch home my virgin bride.”
 
Back when I split A FEAST FOR CROWS into two books, I said in my infamous afterword, "Meanwhile, Back at the Wall..." that Tyrion, Dany, and Jon Snow would be back in the next book, and so they are. Those three characters dominate A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Out of 73 chapters, 35 concern their exploits; sixteen viewpoints, aye, but just three of them make up almost half of the book. The next largest chunk o' chapters belongs to an old POV character who has been missing for a couple of books, but now returns to us... rather the worse for wear.

Yes, some of the characters who were featured as POVs in A FEAST FOR CROWS will reappear, since the timeframe covered by DANCE extends well beyond that of FEAST. Tyrion is not the only Lannister with a viewpoint. Cersei and Jaime will have chapters as well, though... be warned... not a lot of them. Arya is also on hand. And we'll check in with Bran and his companions as well, on their long cold trek beyond the Wall. There are two Dornish POVs (one old, one new), and three ironborn(all previous POVs).
It's gotta be Theon Greyjoy right?
yep
 
Back when I split A FEAST FOR CROWS into two books, I said in my infamous afterword, "Meanwhile, Back at the Wall..." that Tyrion, Dany, and Jon Snow would be back in the next book, and so they are. Those three characters dominate A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Out of 73 chapters, 35 concern their exploits; sixteen viewpoints, aye, but just three of them make up almost half of the book. The next largest chunk o' chapters belongs to an old POV character who has been missing for a couple of books, but now returns to us... rather the worse for wear.

Yes, some of the characters who were featured as POVs in A FEAST FOR CROWS will reappear, since the timeframe covered by DANCE extends well beyond that of FEAST. Tyrion is not the only Lannister with a viewpoint. Cersei and Jaime will have chapters as well, though... be warned... not a lot of them. Arya is also on hand. And we'll check in with Bran and his companions as well, on their long cold trek beyond the Wall. There are two Dornish POVs (one old, one new), and three ironborn(all previous POVs).
It's gotta be Theon Greyjoy right?
Theon is now known as Reek.....

An extract from George R R Martin’s A Dance with Dragons

The rat squealed as he bit into it, squirming wildly in his hands. The belly was the softest part. He tore at the sweet meat, the warm blood running over his lips. It was so good that it brought tears to his eyes. His belly rumbled and he swallowed. By the third bite the rat had ceased to struggle, and he was feeling almost content.

Then he heard the sounds of voices outside the dungeon door.

At once he stilled, fearing even to chew. His mouth was full of blood and flesh and hair, but he dared not spit or swallow. He listened in terror to the scuff of boots and the clanking of iron keys. No, he thought, please gods, not now. It had taken him so long to catch the rat. If they catch me with it they will take it away, and then Lord Ramsay will hurt me.

He knew he ought to hide the rat, but he was so hungry. It had been two days since he had eaten, or maybe three. Down here in the dark it was hard to tell. Though his arms and legs were thin as reeds, his belly was swollen and hollow, and ached so much that he found himself remembering Lady Hornwood. After their wedding, Lord Ramsay had locked her away in a tower and starved her to death. In the end she had eaten her own fingers.

He crouched down in a corner of his cell, clutching his prize. Blood ran from the corners of his mouth as he tore at the rat with his teeth, trying to bolt down as much of the warm flesh as he could. The meat was stringy, but so rich he thought he might be sick. He chewed and swallowed, feeling the small bones crunch between his teeth.

The sounds were growing louder. Please gods, he isn’t coming for me. There were other cells, other prisoners. Sometimes he heard them screaming, even through the thick stone walls. The women always scream the loudest. He sucked at the raw meat and tried to spit out the leg bone, but it only dribbled over his lower lip and tangled in his beard. Go away, he prayed, go away, pass me by, please, please.

But the footsteps stopped just when they were loudest, and the keys clattered right outside the door. The rat fell from his fingers. His heels scrabbled at the straw as he tried to push himself into the corner.

The sound of the lock turning was the most terrible of all. When the light hit him full in the face, he let out a shriek.

“That’s not him,” said a boy’s voice. “Look at him. We’ve got the wrong cell.”

“Last cell on the left,” another boy replied. “This is the last cell on the left, isn’t it?”

“Aye.” A pause. “What’s he saying?”

“I don’t think he likes the light.”

“Would you, if you looked like that?” The boy hawked and spat. “And the stench of him. I’m like to choke.”

“He’s been eating rats,” said the second boy. “Look.”

The first boy laughed. “He has. That’s funny.”

I had to, he thought. The rats bit him when he slept, gnawing at his fingers and his toes, even at his face, so when he got his hands on one he did not hesitate. Eat or be eaten, those were the only choices. “I did it,” he mumbled, “I did, I did, I ate him, they do the same to me, please...”

The boys moved closer, the straw crunching softly under their feet. “Talk to me,” said one of them. He was the smaller of the two, a thin boy, but clever. “Tell me your name.”

My name. A scream caught in his throat. They had taught him his name, they had, but it had been so long that he’d forgotten. If I say it was wrong he’ll take another finger, or worse, he’ll... “Please,” he squeaked, his voice thin and weak. He sounded a hundred years old. Perhaps he was. How long have I been in here?

“Reek,” said the larger of the boys. “Your name is Reek. Remember?” He was the one with the torch. The smaller boy had the ring of iron keys.

Reek? Tears ran down his cheeks. “I remember. I do.” His mouth opened and closed. “My name is Reek. It rhymes with bleak.” In the dark he did not need a name, so it was easy to forget. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. He had not been born with that name. In another life he had been someone else, but here and now, his name was Reek. He remembered.

He remembered the boys as well. They were clad in matching lambswool doublets, silver-grey with dark blue trim. Both were squires, both were eight, and both were Walder Frey. Big Walder and Little Walder, yes. Only the big one was Little, and the little one was Big, which amused the boys and confused the rest of the world. “I know you,” he whispered, through cracked lips. “I know your names.”

“You’re to come with us,” said Little Walder.

“His lordship has need of you,” said Big Walder.

Fear went through him like a knife. They are only children, he thought. Two boys of eight. He could overcome two boys of eight, surely. Even as weak as he was, he could take the torch, take the keys, take the dagger sheathed on Little Walder’s hip, escape. No, it is too easy. It is a trap. If I run, he will take another finger from me, he will take more of my teeth.

Serve and obey and remember who you are, and no more harm will come to you. He promised, his lordship promised. Even if he had wanted to resist, he did not have the strength. It had been scourged from him, starved from him, flayed from him. When Big Walder pulled him up and Little Walder waved the torch at him to herd him from the cell, he went along as docile as a dog. If he had a tail, he would have tucked it down between his legs.

Out in the yard, night was settling over the Dreadfort and a full moon was rising over the castle’s eastern walls. Its pale light cast the shadows of the tall triangular merlons across the frozen ground, a line of sharp black teeth. The air was cold and damp and full of half-forgotten smells. The world, Reek told himself, this is what the world smells like. He did not know how long he had been down there in the dungeons, but it had to have been half a year at least. What if it had been five years, or ten, or twenty? Would I even know? What if I went mad down there, and half my life is gone? But no, that was folly. The boys were still boys. If it had been ten years, they would have grown into men. He had to remember that. I must not let him drive me mad. He can take my fingers and my toes, he can put out my eyes and slice my ears off, but he cannot take my wits unless I let him.

Little Walder led the way with torch in hand. Reek followed meekly, with Big Walder just behind him. The dogs in the kennels barked as they went by. Wind swirled through the yard, cutting through the thin cloth of the filthy rags he wore and raising gooseprickles on his skin. The night air was cold and damp, but he saw no sign of snow, though surely winter was close at hand. Reek wondered if he would be alive to see the snows come. How many fingers will I have? How many toes? When he raised a hand, he was shocked to see how white it was, how fleshless. I have an old man’s hands. Could he have been wrong about the boys? What if they were not Little Walder and Big Walder after all, but the sons of the boys he’d known?

The great hall was dim and smoky. Rows of torches burned to the left and right, grasped by skeletal human hands jutting from the walls. High overhead were wooden rafters black from smoke, and a vaulted ceiling lost in shadow. The air was heavy with the smells of wine and ale and roasted meat. Reek’s stomach rumbled noisily at the scents, and his mouth began to water.

Little Walder pushed him stumbling past the long tables where the men of the garrison were eating. He could feel their eyes upon him. The best places, up near the dais, were occupied by Ramsay’s favorites. But there were strangers too, faces he did not know. Some wrinkled their noses as he passed, whilst others laughed at the sight of him.

At the high table the ******* of Bolton sat in his lord father’s seat, drinking from his father’s cup. Two old men shared the high table with him, and Reek knew at a glance that both were lords. One was gaunt, with flinty eyes, a long white beard, and a face as hard as a winter frost. His jerkin was a ragged bearskin, worn and greasy. Underneath he wore a ringmail byrnie, even here at table. The second lord was thin as well, but twisted where the first was straight. One of his shoulders was much higher than the other, and he stooped over his trencher like a vulture over carrion. His eyes were grey and greedy, his teeth yellow, his forked beard a tangle of snow and silver. Only a few wisps of white hair still clung to his spotted skull, but the cloak he wore was soft and fine, grey wool trimmed with clack sable and fastened at the shoulder with a starburst wrought in beaten silver.

Ramsay was clad in black and pink; black boots, black belt and scabbard, black leather jerkin over a pink velvet doublet slashed with dark red satin. In his right ear gleamed a garnet cut in the shape of a drop of blood. Yet for all the splendor of his garb, he remained an ugly man, big-boned and slope-shouldered, with a fleshiness to him that suggested that in later life he would run to fat. His skin was pink and blotchy, his nose broad, his mouth small, his hair long and dark and dry. His lips were wide and meaty, but the thing men noticed first about him were his eyes. He had his lord father’s eyes; small, close-set, queerly pale. Ghost grey, some men called the shade, but in truth his eyes were all but colorless, like two chips of dirty ice.

At the sight of Reek, he smiled. “There he is. My sour old friend.” To the men beside him he said, “Reek has been with me since I was a boy. My lord father gave him to me, as a token of his love.”

The two lords exchanged a look. “I had heard your serving man was dead,” said the one with the stooped shoulder. “Slain by the Starks, they said.”

Lord Ramsay chuckled. “The ironmen will tell you that what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. Like Reek. He smells of the grave, though, I grant you that.”

“He smells of nightsoil and stale vomit.” The stoop-shouldered old lord tossed aside the bone that he’d been gnawing on and wiped his fingers on the tablecloth. “Is there some reason you must needs inflict him upon us whilst we’re eating?”

The straight-backed old man in the mail byrnie studied Reek with flinty eyes. “Look again,” he urged the other lord. “His hair’s gone white and he is three stone thinner, but this is no serving man. Have you forgotten?”

The crookback lord looked again and gave a sudden snort. “Him? Can it be? Stark’s ward. Smiling, always smiling.”

“He smiles less often now,” Lord Ramsay confessed. “I may have broken some of his pretty white teeth.”

“You would have done better to slit his throat,” said the lord in mail. “A dog who turns against his master is fit for naught but skinning.”

“Oh, he’s been skinned, here and there,” said Ramsay.

“Yes, my lord. I was bad, my lord. Insolent and...” He licked his lip, trying to think of what else he had done. Serve and obey, he told himself, and he’ll let you live, and keep the parts that you still have. Serve and obey and remember your name. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with meek.

“There’s blood on your mouth,” Ramsay observed. “Have you been chewing on your fingers again, Reek?”

“No. No, my lord, I swear.” Reek had tried to bite his own ring finger off once, to stop it hurting after they had stripped the skin from it. Lord Ramsay would never simply cut off a man’s finger. He preferred to flay it, and let the exposed flesh dry and crack and fester. Reek had been whipped and racked and cut, but there was no pain half so excruciating as the pain that followed flaying. It was the sort of pain that drove men mad, and it could not be endured for long. Sooner or later the victim would scream, “Please, no more, stop it hurting, cut it off,” and Lord Ramsay would oblige. It was a game they played. Reek had learned the rules well, but the one time he had forgotten and tried to end the pain himself with his teeth, Ramsay had not been pleased, and the offense had cost Reek another toe. “I ate a rat,” he mumbled.

“A rat?” Ramsay’s pale eyes glittered in the torchlight. “All the rats in the Dreadfort belong to my lord father. How dare you make a meal of one without my leave?”

Reek did not know what to say, so he said nothing. One wrong word could cost him another toe, even a finger. Thus far he had lost two fingers off his left hand and the pinky off his right, but only the little toe off his right foot against three from his left. Sometimes Ramsay would make japes about balancing him out. He does not want to hurt me, he told me so, he only does it when I give him cause. His lord was merciful and kind. He might have flayed his face off for some of the things Reek had said, before he learned his true name and proper place.

Lord Ramsay filled his cup with ale. “Reek, I have glad tidings for you. I am to be wed. My lord father is bringing me a Stark girl. Lord Eddard’s daughter, Arya. You remember little Arya, don’t you?”

Arya Underfoot, he almost said. Arya Horseface. Robb’s younger sister, brown-haired, long-faced, skinny as a stick, always dirty. Sansa was the pretty one. He remembered a time when he had thought that Lord Eddard Stark might marry him to Sansa and claim him for a son, but that had only been a child’s fancy. Arya, though... “I remember her. Arya.”

“She shall be the Lady of Winterfell, and me her lord.”

She is only a girl. “Yes, my lord. Congratulations.”

“Will you attend me at my wedding, Reek?”

He hesitated. “If you wish it, my lord.”

“Oh, I do.”

He hesitated again, wondering if this was some cruel trap. “Yes, my lord. If it please you. I would be honored.”

“We must take you out of that vile dungeon, then. Scrub you pink again, get you some clean clothes, some food to eat. I have a little task for you, and you’ll need your strength back if you are to serve me. You do want to serve me, I know.”

“Yes, my lord. More than anything.” A shiver went through him. “I’m your Reek. Please let me serve you. Please.”

“Since you ask so nicely, how can I deny you?” Ramsay Bolton smiled. “I ride to war, Reek. And you will be coming with me, to help me fetch home my virgin bride.”
Wow, reading that section just serves to remind you how brutal this story is. I'm going to have to read the whole series again just to get back up to speed. I don't how that character landed where they are in that excerpt.
 
'PIK95 said:
I thought he was dead and Reek was someone else. I'm confused myself.
Theon wasn't killed. Ramsay Bolton (who initially posed as "Reek") kept him as a hostage after sacking Winterfell. There was another Reek, but he was killed and Ramsay pretended to be Reek to get away.
 

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