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Getting antsy with your preseason LB rankings? (1 Viewer)

Jene Bramel

Footballguy
I thought I’d throw this out there for general and specific discussion since it was on my mind as I wrote this week’s subscriber column and I’ve gotten bunches of emails and PMs from folks that are dealing with this quandary in their lineups and those in smaller leagues on their rosters. I was going to hold it until next week’s column, but I’m interested in the thoughts of the Forum. Apologies in advance if this gets long-winded (as usual :lmao: ).

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I had Barrett Ruud, Jon Beason and DJ Williams in my preseason top four. I was confident that talent and scheme would dovetail into a huge season for Ruud, that the loss of Kemoeatu and a spare Tampa-2 snap or three wouldn’t hurt Beason much and that Williams would continue to beat his weak competition to the ball for tackles on a bad defense. I still think these guys are on the elite side of the talent and opportunity curve and I’m generally against changing course during the first two weeks without good reason.But I was extremely high on Curtis Lofton, EJ Henderson and Justin Durant this offseason, too. Guys like David Harris and Thomas Davis have begun to win me over with efforts that backed up what we saw in the preseason and some role changes in their defensive schemes. All seem like high-upside guys that have already solidified themselves as no longer risky upside props.

And it’s got my spidey senses tingling a bit. At a minimum, I’ve been advocating getting the second group in the lineup over the first group. It’s been very hard to preach my usual “patience with studs” angle with some of these guys.

What I’m seeing:

Ruud: Defensive tackles allowing too many offensive linemen to the second level. Not shedding blocks as well. Has had better competition than expected from the secondary and OLBs for tackles. Still around the ball based on game and stat review, but much of the added scheme value being negated.

Beason: Mobility improved last week. Facing more blockers than expected due to continued injury to the DT corps. Team playing much more Tampa-2 than expected, giving added value to Thomas Davis (see this week’s RTD).

Williams: Long noted issues with instincts and general linebacker play more an issue this year than ever. Andra Davis beginning the season hotter than he ever has in role that’s not that much different than he’s played in the past. Brian Dawkins making a difference.

Durant: Everywhere on a defense struggling to find itself and little competition for tackles in a target-rich environment.

Lofton: Exactly what I thought he’d be. No concern for missed nickel snaps. Continuing to make plays despite big OLB tackle numbers.

Henderson: One of the rare backers to survive the DET matchup. Williams Wall to play all year.

Harris: Jets playing 4-3 and using Harris at MLB in a big play role.

Davis: Panthers look like a Tampa-2 team and Davis compares very favorably to Derrick Brooks/Lance Briggs.

You can add guys like Vilma (tackle opportunity and scheme concerns) and Laurinaitis (opportunity and competition more in his favor than expected) here, too.

What I’m thinking:

Durant/Lofton and possibly Henderson/Harris/Davis are emerging as more likely 100 solo tackle threats than Ruud/Beason/Williams. I’d almost certainly be dumping my preseason #4 LB (Williams) for any of the Emerging Five. I’m having a very hard time thinking that my top five backers for the rest of 2009 would not be Willis-Durant-Lofton and some combination of Ruud/Beason/Laurinaitis/Harris/Henderson with Mayo/Cooper/Lewis/etc behind.

My concern:

Upside vs patience. Am I overrating the upside guys who started hot and turning my back on the patience argument too soon?

My conclusion:

Trust the spidey senses. I’d think hard about moving on/starting Durant and Lofton over Beason and Williams and possibly Ruud. I’d also think hard on grabbing/starting Davis and Laurinaitis over guys like Morrison and Briggs and Fletcher and Lewis.

What are you guys seeing?

 
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:coffee:

Great summary Jene. I'm stuck squarely in the middle of this dilemma. Jene and I have discussed this at length. Interested to hear others chime in with their updated thoughts on how the top 5 or so will shake out this year.

:moneybag:

 
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Im pretty sure thats a complete list, might be worth bumpn this post Sunday. Im starting a couple of these players and it be nice to know sooner thn later that it may be safer bet to roster say Oaklands Thomas Howard. Ive already seen a few stud players dropped to add for instance Laurinatis. It will be interesting to see how Davis performs based on the matchup. Im actually off Sunday, so I hope too see some good football!!

p.s. It is still early though (2wks) a guy who might not hit 100 tackles but be worth a roster spot Eagles Akeem Jordan? << wasnt a player on my personal watchlist but hes got my attention...

 
I think you're spot on Jene - it's important to know how our scoring compares to the one you use in evaluating tiers and production as well. In a redraft league every starter counts and every week a LB gives youa 2-3 kills ya - so I understand the need to loose patience and grab the "hot guy" - Dynasty and keeper leagues you can afford to wait for production since you have deeper rosters.

I just cut Ruud loose and picked up Lofton. Im in a redraft league with big play scoring and I just didnt see Ruud making many big plays - on the flip side I see lofton as a consistant tackle producer - even if he doesnt generate many big plays I wont be stuck with a 3 - 4 tackle game like w/Ruud

 
I liked Lofton, DJ, Fetcher, Foote and Thomas Davis to finish top numbers but be decent bargains. I liked Foote on that defense too(with Levy as a handcuff).

 
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Good stuff thanks Jene.

I'm lucky enough to have had Durant/Henderson/Lofton all fall in my lap late after taking DJ early (thanks FBG!). So I guess it's a win/win for me.

I'm concerned about DJ more than the others (probably because I own him). I think Beason at some point gets healthy enough to step up into LB1 range again. Ruud is very perplexing, I'm just watching and waiting with him.

I'm going to be patient with DJ Williams, give him a few more games to prove my gut feeling wrong.

So going forward, I like your rankings. I would completely concur except I can still see Ruud and TB figuring out ways to keep him free to make plays in the box and he could have 2nd half numbers in the top 3 or 4 amongst LBs.

 
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I liked Lofton, DJ, Fetcher, Foote and Thomas Davis to finish top numbers but be decent bargains. I liked Foote on that defense too(with Levy as a handcuff).
I like to hear more about people's thoughts on Foote in comparison to the other studs at LB...
 
Good lord, Jene I'm picking up (and liking) what you are putting down.

Going into this season, Willis without a doubt was the head of the class so I went out and took what it had to take to get him.

After that, I targeted every guy you mentioned - maybe a few too rounds early - but my LBs are as follows -

Willis

Lofton

Laurinaitas

Durant

I can only start 3 and it is not a keeper league - so of those 4 I am looking to spin Durant at his highest point. Right now that loooks to be a combo of Felix Jones/Donnie Avery...the bonus is that I lose nothing due to the production of my other 3 LBs.

Eventually I think Ryans moves back up. I think Bart Scott will make some noise. I have no idea on Briggs. A lot depends on how the line holds up in front of him.

 
I still like Harris to fall in the top 5 somewhere, Durant has a shot to be top 5, Willis will most likely still get there Ryans and Henderson.

Others I like:

Beason

Thomas Davis (I called him the most talented LB'er on the team last year, so his numbers do not surprise me)

Cooper

Timmons

Dansby

Vilma

Ruud

I think some guys will fall back due to their talent level:

Laurinaitis

Jordan

Peterson

Andra Davis

 
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What I’m thinking:

Durant/Lofton and possibly Henderson/Harris/Davis are emerging as more likely 100 solo tackle threats than Ruud/Beason/Williams. I’d almost certainly be dumping my preseason #4 LB (Williams) for any of the Emerging Five. I’m having a very hard time thinking that my top five backers for the rest of 2009 would not be Willis-Durant-Lofton and some combination of Ruud/Beason/Laurinaitis/Harris/Henderson with Mayo/Cooper/Lewis/etc behind.

My conclusion:

Trust the spidey senses. I’d think hard about moving on/starting Durant and Lofton over Beason and Williams and possibly Ruud. I’d also think hard on grabbing/starting Davis and Laurinaitis over guys like Morrison and Briggs and Fletcher and Lewis.
Jene - we've discussed this a good bit already, but one name you curiously left out here is DeMeco Ryans. Where would he rank in your current grouping?
 
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I'm not, but I also don't do IDP redrafts so I'm not sure how much help I'll be. I don't closely follow many players outside of my own lineup unless I see potential buy low opportunities.

I traded Vilma in one league, entering the season with Willis-Durant-Laurinaitis-Stew Bradley. Bradley blowing out his knee hurt my depth, obviously, but I still feel great about the starting 3. Trying to find a #4 right now, have Chillar, Blades, and Adibi on the roster so either going to need waiver wire luck or injury luck unfortunately.

My other league I traded for David Harris to go with Timmons and Foote in the starting lineup. Maualuga, Dhani Jones, Ernie Sims, Tavares Gooden, and HB Blades patiently wait on the bench. Seeing as how five months ago my starting lineup was Timmons-Thomas Howard-Sims with Gooden my best bench option I really like how this unit looks now compared to then.

I did an IDP Draft only though. Took Dansby round 1, Stephen Cooper round 4, Timmons round 5, Pace round 10, Bulluck round 18, and Gerald Hayes round 21. Feeling good there.

Of the guys on my rosters I feel like Durant, Little Animal, Cooper, and Harris will all be top 10 come season's end. Willis is #1. I'm not willing to eliminate Dansby from top 10 conversation so soon, but I'm less confident. I want to see Timmons in action before making an opinion about him. Foote isn't going to be top 10, but (like Dansby) top 20? I think so.

 
I'm in a start 2 LB, keeper league in which I held on to DeMeco Ryans. I also drafted DJ Williams and Timmons and later picked up Durant after Timmons' ankle issue. Durant and Ryans are now my starters while I see what Timmons can do. DJ, unfortunately as a Broncos fan, seems to be the odd man out for my team as I can't roster all 4. I was hoping for great tackle numbers from DJ as well as a big play here and there but that just isn't happening. DJ hasn't been bad to this point, but Durant has vastly outplayed him and I can't see a reason why that won't continue. I believe DeMeco will be a stud and Timmons has such great potential I can't let him go.

 
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Jene I'm listening - I traded Ruud straight up for Lofton in a redraft and just traded Vilma. Got James Jones, Mike Peterson and a third - but that allowed me to make the trade of Lance Moore - but got Yeremiah Bell and Session and Lynell Hamilton (own Bell and Thomas)

If I hadn't been reading and listening to the round table I never would have considered trading Vilma.

:goodposting:

 
I was Lucky

I have Dansby (so far not as much as a stud but good)

Durant (great)

and Lofton (also great)

But i have a BIG prob. Next week BYE week for Dansby AND Lofton

and in this league there is like NO bench spots it is a 16 team league also, and someone JUST dropped D'Qwell Jackson on the waiver Should i try to get him and Drop one of my guys or drop a WR for him next week?

this is a tackle heavy league.

 
So, Norton's updated rankings for LBs this week (with my fairly standard scoring) has Ruud and Ryans in the top 5.

Seems like you guys don't agree with his predictions for this week, eh?

 
What I’m thinking:

Durant/Lofton and possibly Henderson/Harris/Davis are emerging as more likely 100 solo tackle threats than Ruud/Beason/Williams. I’d almost certainly be dumping my preseason #4 LB (Williams) for any of the Emerging Five. I’m having a very hard time thinking that my top five backers for the rest of 2009 would not be Willis-Durant-Lofton and some combination of Ruud/Beason/Laurinaitis/Harris/Henderson with Mayo/Cooper/Lewis/etc behind.

My conclusion:

Trust the spidey senses. I’d think hard about moving on/starting Durant and Lofton over Beason and Williams and possibly Ruud. I’d also think hard on grabbing/starting Davis and Laurinaitis over guys like Morrison and Briggs and Fletcher and Lewis.
Jene - we've discussed this a good bit already, but one name you curiously left out here is DeMeco Ryans. Where would he rank in your current grouping?
I'm not worried about Ryans. I think he's still a clear top ten player with top five/100 solo upside.
So, Norton's updated rankings for LBs this week (with my fairly standard scoring) has Ruud and Ryans in the top 5.

Seems like you guys don't agree with his predictions for this week, eh?
My comments are made with full season expectation/revisit the preseason rankings in mind. Ruud has what has been a top three tackle matchup over the past season plus. He could throw up 14 solos this week and relieve everyone's concerns. Ryans' matchup against the Jags should be solid, too.
 
thanks for the help. I drafted Ryans, Williams, and Timmons. I now still have Ryans, but changed to Lofton and Durant. Last year, LB was my weakness. Not this year!

 
This season I decided to take current year's performance into consideration much earlier than in the past.

As a result, I sat Beason in week 2 as well as this week to start Lofton and Cooper. Had I sat Beason in week 1 for Cooper, I'd be 2-0 instead of 1-1.

I'm still confident in Beason's ability to put up great numbers this season, but I think his knee just needs more time. Cooper is a great LB3 to have available until then. Had I been stuck with my only other option, Nick Barnett, I would have likely kept starting Beason.

 
This has been a tough season for figuring out LBs. I think a combination of injuries and all the hybrid defenses playing both 3-4 and 4-3 is making it difficult to figure things out. I would not give up on a guy like Beason, but if you get any big-play points it is definitely time to consider guys who are multi-dimensional. In a keeper league I made Lofton one of my keepers and then drafted Timmons and Bradie James. I am not normally this inpatient, but I have already dropped James and picked up Cooper and Cushing (wasn't drafted thanks to preseason injury). Right now, Cushing looks like my No. 2 because of all the opportunities in Houston and the fact that he gets points for passes defensed and other plays. He is currently 19th in my league and I think he will improve on that ranking as the season shakes out.

I guess what I'm saying is be more flexible this year. I used to always go for the steady tackle guys, but all the defensive changes around the league may have have modified my strategy a bit.

 
So far I'm wrong with DJ as LB1. I'd like Timmons to be healthy before I write him off as LB5.

I also thought my man Patrick Willis would become mortal in an improved defense and be around LB10. Wrong too.

 
I also don't play redraft IDP, and my dynasty starts a full 11 so, anything I see is likely to be much deeper down.

I agree Durant is a stud at this point, and I was also a fan of Foote for production this & probably next, but then falling off a cliff. I see these 2 as top-10 types of guys.

One guy who was lower down who has produced more solidly than I thought is Mike Peterson - he seems like a very solid player again not that he's out of JDR's doghouse. I see LB2 production, even though he's a LB1 right now.

Oh, and this London Fletcher guy is looking like he's still got it. He will fall off a cliff at some point, or just maybe retire first.

David Hawthorne was likely on your wire going into this week. He won't be there after waivers are processed. If Tatupu is out for any length of time, he's got LB2 potential every week.

 
Jim Mora expects LB Lofa Tatupu (hamstring) to return this week vs. the Colts ...

I hope we can keep this post going till at least wk 8. I think it be nice to know not only who can be top 5 in tackles or top 10 in scoring, but who can finish the 2nd half of the season strong. ie. We all may agree that player A should finish with X amt of tackles, but what if hes injured or a trade to good to pass up.

btw: Did anyone catch the Pittsburg game? I have Lofton on a bye comming up and would like to start Timmons.

 

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