Helping GMs estimate how far they can move down and still get who they want or how far they have to move up to get who they want.Most famous example being Jerry Rice . . .in what scenario or year would they ever be useful outside of amusement?![]()
Helping GMs estimate how far they can move down and still get who they want or how far they have to move up to get who they want.Most famous example being Jerry Rice . . .in what scenario or year would they ever be useful outside of amusement?![]()
Baloney. None of these QBs are going #1 overall.It doesn't matter if they don't re-sign Albert.It doesn't matter if their entire offensive line dies in a fiery plane crash.If KC does anything with the #1 pick other than draft a QB, Arrowhead will be torched within the hour.If the Chiefs don't re-sign Albert, then Joeckel is the pick. Otherwise I think they'll take Lotulelei since both Jackson and Dorsey could be let loose.
The year Cam came out...around this time wasnt Fairley the #1 overall pick then Cam opened eyes at the combine and in the work-outs? I'm not 100% sure but I thought that was the case. Anyhow, I'm not counting out any QB until after the workouts. If Geno nails it then he's going to soar up the boards and would have to be in consideration for the #1 overall pick IMHOBaloney. None of these QBs are going #1 overall.It doesn't matter if they don't re-sign Albert.It doesn't matter if their entire offensive line dies in a fiery plane crash.If KC does anything with the #1 pick other than draft a QB, Arrowhead will be torched within the hour.If the Chiefs don't re-sign Albert, then Joeckel is the pick. Otherwise I think they'll take Lotulelei since both Jackson and Dorsey could be let loose.
I see the comparison that you're trying to make but I don't think it's there. Cam Newton had an unreal year that culminated in a National Championship and the Heisman. Geno started out hot but then fizzled out as the year went on and he didn't elevate his team.I just don't see it being the same at all.But then again, I haven't been real accurate on any of my QB predictions of late.The year Cam came out...around this time wasnt Fairley the #1 overall pick then Cam opened eyes at the combine and in the work-outs? I'm not 100% sure but I thought that was the case. Anyhow, I'm not counting out any QB until after the workouts. If Geno nails it then he's going to soar up the boards and would have to be in consideration for the #1 overall pick IMHO
I think you're looking at it from the angle of "none of these QB's even deserve consideration for being the #1 pick in the draft". Several teams, arguably including the Chiefs, could be looking at it as "we are going to be awful until we find a franchise QB and if we can't find one at #1 overall, when?" If anyone believes there is even a chance that one of these QBs is that guy, he's going #1 regardless of who is better than him at other positions.I know this is a copout, but I think it's impossible to predict if a QB will or won't go #1 because you'd have to know if KCC believes any of these guys have that shot. If they do, that trumps everything else.I see the comparison that you're trying to make but I don't think it's there. Cam Newton had an unreal year that culminated in a National Championship and the Heisman. Geno started out hot but then fizzled out as the year went on and he didn't elevate his team.I just don't see it being the same at all.But then again, I haven't been real accurate on any of my QB predictions of late.The year Cam came out...around this time wasnt Fairley the #1 overall pick then Cam opened eyes at the combine and in the work-outs? I'm not 100% sure but I thought that was the case. Anyhow, I'm not counting out any QB until after the workouts. If Geno nails it then he's going to soar up the boards and would have to be in consideration for the #1 overall pick IMHO![]()
But I think the new crew will be smarter than that. Taking a mediocre QB just because you have to and bypassing a guy that has a much higher likelihood of success is a recipe for further disaster.I know the KC QB situation is a nightmare. Still, I find it impossible to believe that the team would talk itself into one of these guys at #1 overall.I think you're looking at it from the angle of "none of these QB's even deserve consideration for being the #1 pick in the draft". Several teams, arguably including the Chiefs, could be looking at it as "we are going to be awful until we find a franchise QB and if we can't find one at #1 overall, when?" If anyone believes there is even a chance that one of these QBs is that guy, he's going #1 regardless of who is better than him at other positions.I know this is a copout, but I think it's impossible to predict if a QB will or won't go #1 because you'd have to know if KCC believes any of these guys have that shot. If they do, that trumps everything else.
You are definitely right that the others have a higher likelihood of success. I just look at it as risk vs reward. If there is a 60% chance LJ is a stud LT and a 20% chance Geno is a franchise QB, you could easily make the case that a franchise QB is worth 3 times as much. If you're pretty much sure though that none of these QB's even have that upside, you don't take them.But I think the new crew will be smarter than that. Taking a mediocre QB just because you have to and bypassing a guy that has a much higher likelihood of success is a recipe for further disaster.I know the KC QB situation is a nightmare. Still, I find it impossible to believe that the team would talk itself into one of these guys at #1 overall.I think you're looking at it from the angle of "none of these QB's even deserve consideration for being the #1 pick in the draft". Several teams, arguably including the Chiefs, could be looking at it as "we are going to be awful until we find a franchise QB and if we can't find one at #1 overall, when?" If anyone believes there is even a chance that one of these QBs is that guy, he's going #1 regardless of who is better than him at other positions.I know this is a copout, but I think it's impossible to predict if a QB will or won't go #1 because you'd have to know if KCC believes any of these guys have that shot. If they do, that trumps everything else.
The QB they take can't be worse than Cassel, ergo it will be a success.A disaster is sticking with what they have now at QB.They've gone the franchise LT route and look where it got them.But I think the new crew will be smarter than that. Taking a mediocre QB just because you have to and bypassing a guy that has a much higher likelihood of success is a recipe for further disaster.
At what position is the first QB worthy of going?10?20?if you think a QB is worthy of going anywhere in the first round, he's worthy of going to the Chiefs #1 overallI know the KC QB situation is a nightmare. Still, I find it impossible to believe that the team would talk itself into one of these guys at #1 overall.
The QB they take could absolutely be worse than Cassel.The QB they take can't be worse than Cassel, ergo it will be a success.A disaster is sticking with what they have now at QB.They've gone the franchise LT route and look where it got them.
Worthy or likely? Not the same thing. I think the only team likely to take a 1st round QB is Buffalo. Even then, I'm not so sure.What I see is that the top 4 QBs are all pretty close in talent but none are 1st round talent. Which means that none of them should go in the top 10 for sure. So even if one does, none of the teams at spots 11-32 really need to take a QB, which leaves someone at #33 for the Chiefs to take that would be at equal talent level that they'd have to reach for at #1.At what position is the first QB worthy of going?10?20?if you think a QB is worthy of going anywhere in the first round, he's worthy of going to the Chiefs #1 overall
1. sure, and Brady Quinn could absolutely make the probowl next year2. not only CAN they risk it, they MUST risk itthe current situation is untenable and until they get a QB, nothing else mattersThe QB they take could absolutely be worse than Cassel.
It's easy to say that from a distance, but the Chiefs will carefully evaluate them, and as they evaluate them, they will develop a clear favorite.And once they have a favorite, they can't risk letting him slip away. QB position is too important to this team after so many years in the QB wilderness.What I see is that the top 4 QBs are all pretty close in talent but none are 1st round talent. Which means that none of them should go in the top 10 for sure. So even if one does, none of the teams at spots 11-32 really need to take a QB, which leaves someone at #33 for the Chiefs to take that would be at equal talent level that they'd have to reach for at #1.
Alex Smith?Okay. Let's leave it at this. The Chiefs could very well draft a QB at #1. It is my opinion that that would be a terrible mistake.
I don't see why not. Him or Mike Vick.Throw the Browns a 5th rounder for Colt McCoy even.Alex Smith?Okay. Let's leave it at this. The Chiefs could very well draft a QB at #1. It is my opinion that that would be a terrible mistake.
Reid won't make the Vick mistake again and I'm not so sure I can see Alex Smith passing that much. They COULD happen though. We will all know a lot more after FA startsI don't see why not. Him or Mike Vick.Throw the Browns a 5th rounder for Colt McCoy even.Alex Smith?Okay. Let's leave it at this. The Chiefs could very well draft a QB at #1. It is my opinion that that would be a terrible mistake.
i think even beyond pure football needs (which are pretty pressing), there are PR needs, they need a 1st round QB to get fans excited and willing to spend moneyWho the **** cares if Luke Joeckel is a technician or a mauler? He could literally be a time-warped resurgence of Willie Roaf, and I wouldn't draft him over Geno Smith.Let's say it's below freezing outside and you have the chance to buy a coat. You don't spend your last dollar on a briefcase instead, no matter how good of a deal it is. You buy the ****ing coat.
That analogy makes NO sense.KC fans' view of the matter:http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=267890
i think even beyond pure football needs (which are pretty pressing), there are PR needs, they need a 1st round QB to get fans excited and willing to spend moneyWho the **** cares if Luke Joeckel is a technician or a mauler? He could literally be a time-warped resurgence of Willie Roaf, and I wouldn't draft him over Geno Smith.Let's say it's below freezing outside and you have the chance to buy a coat. You don't spend your last dollar on a briefcase instead, no matter how good of a deal it is. You buy the ****ing coat.
New Browns VP of player personnel Michael Lombardi called the selection of Brandon Weeden at No. 22 overall last year a "panicked disaster."Lombardi also told a Cleveland radio station in September that Colt McCoy gives the team a better chance to win. On the flip side, Weeden's arm strength is better suited to new coach Rob Chudzinski's vertical attack. One source told ESPN Cleveland that team president Joe Banner assured McCoy he is still in the team's plans, though likely not as the starter. We've seen no evidence that Weeden has been given similar assurance.
It's just a comment on priorities. In this case, choosing an OT who is a better deal than a QB which is the way more important need at the moment.Anyway... I think one of the bright sides of drafting Joeckel is that if they go the route of Joeckel/Quinn, they can probably draft their QB #1 overall next year instead with a better crop. I am not making fun of the idea. It's actually a real consideration IMO.That analogy makes NO sense.KC fans' view of the matter:http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=267890
i think even beyond pure football needs (which are pretty pressing), there are PR needs, they need a 1st round QB to get fans excited and willing to spend moneyWho the **** cares if Luke Joeckel is a technician or a mauler? He could literally be a time-warped resurgence of Willie Roaf, and I wouldn't draft him over Geno Smith.Let's say it's below freezing outside and you have the chance to buy a coat. You don't spend your last dollar on a briefcase instead, no matter how good of a deal it is. You buy the ****ing coat.
I get that. But to complete the analogy, you don't buy a windbreaker to keep you warm just because it happens to be a coat.It's just a comment on priorities. In this case, choosing an OT who is a better deal than a QB which is the way more important need at the moment.
Wow! What a way to start things off on the wrong foot there. Even if Lombardi thinks Weeden is a disaster, he shouldn't just blurt it out like that. Man has no filter. Weeden's a former first round pick that Lombardi will need to try to pawn off on somebody, someday. Amazing Lombardi got back a job in the league. He should have stuck to his media job.I don't think Weeden has a future in Cleveland:
New Browns VP of player personnel Michael Lombardi called the selection of Brandon Weeden at No. 22 overall last year a "panicked disaster."Lombardi also told a Cleveland radio station in September that Colt McCoy gives the team a better chance to win. On the flip side, Weeden's arm strength is better suited to new coach Rob Chudzinski's vertical attack. One source told ESPN Cleveland that team president Joe Banner assured McCoy he is still in the team's plans, though likely not as the starter. We've seen no evidence that Weeden has been given similar assurance.
I just looked it up as well, but I saw $7.25M cap hit in 2013 and $8.25M in 2014 with $2M each year guaranteed. So, they could keep him and let him be a high-priced backup to a low-cost rookie. I would think, however, it would make more sense for them to sign Wilson to a new deal sooner rather than later and send Flynn to KC for a 3rd-4th rounder or something.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.
Not sure KC would want to go for the unproven backup QB route again and still retain public support. Other teams might and they could possibly get a 4th or even a 3rd if Shneider can work his magic. But there's no impetus for Seattle to trade him, the cap hit of the QB position (being that their stud is a 3rd rounder with 2 more years before he can renegotiate) isn't prohibitive.What's Matt Flynn's value to Seattle? You gotta think they'd love to get that salary off their books with Wilson entrenched as the short and long-term answer and would probably jettison him for peanuts to get the cap relief.
I don't think they can for 2 more years due to the CBA.I just looked it up as well, but I saw $7.25M cap hit in 2013 and $8.25M in 2014 with $2M each year guaranteed. So, they could keep him and let him be a high-priced backup to a low-cost rookie. I would think, however, it would make more sense for them to sign Wilson to a new deal sooner rather than later and send Flynn to KC for a 3rd-4th rounder or something.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."
Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.
They are going to listen to offers according to Schneider. He has said so x2 on local radio...depends if you want to believe that or not. If the right offer comes around they would trade him. With 10 picks I can see them drafting a backup QB project with a skill set similar to Wilson so they don't have to change the offense much if Wilson went down.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.
I don't think they can for 2 more years due to the CBA.I just looked it up as well, but I saw $7.25M cap hit in 2013 and $8.25M in 2014 with $2M each year guaranteed. So, they could keep him and let him be a high-priced backup to a low-cost rookie. I would think, however, it would make more sense for them to sign Wilson to a new deal sooner rather than later and send Flynn to KC for a 3rd-4th rounder or something.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."
Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.
My understanding he made those comments awhile ago working for NFLN.I agree 100% with his comments. Just a brutal selection on so many levels.Wow! What a way to start things off on the wrong foot there. Even if Lombardi thinks Weeden is a disaster, he shouldn't just blurt it out like that. Man has no filter. Weeden's a former first round pick that Lombardi will need to try to pawn off on somebody, someday. Amazing Lombardi got back a job in the league. He should have stuck to his media job.I don't think Weeden has a future in Cleveland:
New Browns VP of player personnel Michael Lombardi called the selection of Brandon Weeden at No. 22 overall last year a "panicked disaster."Lombardi also told a Cleveland radio station in September that Colt McCoy gives the team a better chance to win. On the flip side, Weeden's arm strength is better suited to new coach Rob Chudzinski's vertical attack. One source told ESPN Cleveland that team president Joe Banner assured McCoy he is still in the team's plans, though likely not as the starter. We've seen no evidence that Weeden has been given similar assurance.
Okay. Let's leave it at this. The Chiefs could very well draft a QB at #1. It is my opinion that that would be a terrible mistake.
Yeah, as of right now I would be happy with Ogletree with our pick at 8. This draft appears to be so ugly at the top that I would prefer to trade down and pick up as many draft picks as we can. We still have a lot of holes to fill and maybe we can get lucky with a couple late round guys. I honestly still wouldn't mind if we drafted Manti Teo at 8. I just don't want to reach too high for a QB.I'd love it if the Bills snag Ogletree at #8. He's just what their defense needs - a big strong presence behind Kyle Williams and Marcell Dareus.
That's what I would do. Take Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones #1 and Glennon at #33. I guess the worry would be that someone would trade up into the bottom of round 1 and take Glennon if Geno and Barkley go in the first.What would be so bad about taking someone like Glennon at #33 instead of Geno at #1?
Ahhhhh. Good info, thanks. I'm no expert on the Seahawks cap situation, but wouldn't it benefit them to move Flynn and save a few million in cap space and pick up, say, Kansas City's 4.1 in the process? That's actually a top-100 pick, you could get a nice player there, sign a backup to Wilson for the vet minimum and save a few million that could be used to shore up some other positions (WR, DL, etc.)I don't think they can for 2 more years due to the CBA.I just looked it up as well, but I saw $7.25M cap hit in 2013 and $8.25M in 2014 with $2M each year guaranteed. So, they could keep him and let him be a high-priced backup to a low-cost rookie. I would think, however, it would make more sense for them to sign Wilson to a new deal sooner rather than later and send Flynn to KC for a 3rd-4th rounder or something.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."
Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.They can not sign him to a new contract for 2 years. (great deal for the Hawks).
I think Arizona should take Eric Fisher at 7. Any QB they draft could end up on IR if they don't make some drastic improvements on the line.I've seen it in a couple spots. Russ Lande has Ertz as his #18 prospect overall, Eifert at #25.Regarding Barkley - I get that people are down on him after the year he just had but there are teams that are more than starving for QB talent and he's still probably the best pro prospect in this year's class. He's going to go higher than people think for that reason alone.Arizona and Buffalo are not going to go into the season with the QBs they had last year. What are their options?Honest question, is Ertz better than Eifert?
From rotoworld.Asked Friday whether there is any chance of the Chiefs retaining Matt Cassel for 2013, GM John Dorsey replied "Well, you never say never."In other words, long shot. And ultimately not happening. Dorsey also told 610 Sports Radio in Kansas City that he wouldn't reach for a quarterback in the draft. "I will never attempt to reach or jump on a player just for need’s sake," Dorsey said. "We’re not going to do that here." Cassel carries a $7.5 million salary and $250,000 due in a workout bonus. Expect him to be cut by March.
Im hoping they get that chance. I would take 4.1 in a heartbeat. Flynn is decent and would be a good guy to have while developing a QBOTF. Im sure he wants out of Seattle to get a chance to start.Ahhhhh. Good info, thanks. I'm no expert on the Seahawks cap situation, but wouldn't it benefit them to move Flynn and save a few million in cap space and pick up, say, Kansas City's 4.1 in the process? That's actually a top-100 pick, you could get a nice player there, sign a backup to Wilson for the vet minimum and save a few million that could be used to shore up some other positions (WR, DL, etc.)I don't think they can for 2 more years due to the CBA.I just looked it up as well, but I saw $7.25M cap hit in 2013 and $8.25M in 2014 with $2M each year guaranteed. So, they could keep him and let him be a high-priced backup to a low-cost rookie. I would think, however, it would make more sense for them to sign Wilson to a new deal sooner rather than later and send Flynn to KC for a 3rd-4th rounder or something.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."
Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.They can not sign him to a new contract for 2 years. (great deal for the Hawks).
Wouldn't be a bad deal for K.C. either. If I'm them, I cut Cassel, trade the 1.1 pick to a team that wants to move up and pick up an additional pick, draft a pass rusher in the first, Glennon in the second, and trade the 4th to Seattle for Flynn. Now you have a guy in Flynn to play this season while Glennon learns the offense, if he sucks, you cut him next year and hand Glennon the reins and only take a $2M cap hit. You end up getting a guy like Ansah or Mingo in the first this year that could help transform your defense, and you go into next year with 2 #1 picks, at least one of which is likely to be a high 1st. Now you've got a foundation to build on.Im hoping they get that chance. I would take 4.1 in a heartbeat. Flynn is decent and would be a good guy to have while developing a QBOTF. Im sure he wants out of Seattle to get a chance to start.Ahhhhh. Good info, thanks. I'm no expert on the Seahawks cap situation, but wouldn't it benefit them to move Flynn and save a few million in cap space and pick up, say, Kansas City's 4.1 in the process? That's actually a top-100 pick, you could get a nice player there, sign a backup to Wilson for the vet minimum and save a few million that could be used to shore up some other positions (WR, DL, etc.)I don't think they can for 2 more years due to the CBA.I just looked it up as well, but I saw $7.25M cap hit in 2013 and $8.25M in 2014 with $2M each year guaranteed. So, they could keep him and let him be a high-priced backup to a low-cost rookie. I would think, however, it would make more sense for them to sign Wilson to a new deal sooner rather than later and send Flynn to KC for a 3rd-4th rounder or something.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."
Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.They can not sign him to a new contract for 2 years. (great deal for the Hawks).
Once in a while a sharkpool post makes complete sense and adheres to the actual environment of the NFL and salary cap structure. Kudos. That said, it makes too much sense to happen, so it will not.Wouldn't be a bad deal for K.C. either. If I'm them, I cut Cassel, trade the 1.1 pick to a team that wants to move up and pick up an additional pick, draft a pass rusher in the first, Glennon in the second, and trade the 4th to Seattle for Flynn. Now you have a guy in Flynn to play this season while Glennon learns the offense, if he sucks, you cut him next year and hand Glennon the reins and only take a $2M cap hit. You end up getting a guy like Ansah or Mingo in the first this year that could help transform your defense, and you go into next year with 2 #1 picks, at least one of which is likely to be a high 1st. Now you've got a foundation to build on.Im hoping they get that chance. I would take 4.1 in a heartbeat. Flynn is decent and would be a good guy to have while developing a QBOTF. Im sure he wants out of Seattle to get a chance to start.Ahhhhh. Good info, thanks. I'm no expert on the Seahawks cap situation, but wouldn't it benefit them to move Flynn and save a few million in cap space and pick up, say, Kansas City's 4.1 in the process? That's actually a top-100 pick, you could get a nice player there, sign a backup to Wilson for the vet minimum and save a few million that could be used to shore up some other positions (WR, DL, etc.)I don't think they can for 2 more years due to the CBA.I just looked it up as well, but I saw $7.25M cap hit in 2013 and $8.25M in 2014 with $2M each year guaranteed. So, they could keep him and let him be a high-priced backup to a low-cost rookie. I would think, however, it would make more sense for them to sign Wilson to a new deal sooner rather than later and send Flynn to KC for a 3rd-4th rounder or something.From Rotoworld, I gather that Flynn is "Set to make 'just' $5.25 million in 2013 — only $2 million of which is guaranteed — Flynn has a tradable contract."
Which also means he has a KEEPABLE contract.They can not sign him to a new contract for 2 years. (great deal for the Hawks).