Give me the best defensive team you could possibly field (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

I don't want everyone to go digging up career defensive stats. Give me your gut feeling.

We want to field a team with fantastic gloves. The pitcher spot is more open to interpretation.

If you're trying to hold the other team down, obviously putting a dominant arm on the mound is

more important than starting a pitcher who won a lot of Gold Gloves (Maddux and Kaat, for example).

There's really no right or wrong here. Just list the best defensive 9 you'd go to battle with.

P - Sandy Koufax

C - Johnny Bench

1B - Keith Hernandez

2B - Ryne Sandberg (no idea on this one, really)

SS - Ozzie Smith

3B - Brooks Robinson

RF - Roberto Clemente

CF - Ken Griffey, Jr.

LF - I don't even want to type his name because he's such a jackoff.

 

[Michael Brown]

I don't want everyone to go digging up career defensive stats. Give me your gut feeling.We want to field a team with fantastic gloves. The pitcher spot is more open to interpretation.If you're trying to hold the other team down, obviously putting a dominant arm on the mound ismore important than starting a pitcher who won a lot of Gold Gloves (Maddux and Kaat, for example).There's really no right or wrong here. Just list the best defensive 9 you'd go to battle with.P - Sandy KoufaxC - Johnny Bench1B - Keith Hernandez2B - Ryne Sandberg (no idea on this one, really)SS - Ozzie Smith3B - Brooks RobinsonRF - Roberto ClementeCF - Ken Griffey, Jr.LF - I don't even want to type his name because he's such a jackoff.

Pretty sure these are the right answers, maybe swap out Ozzie for Jeter. AHHHHHHH JUST KIDDING Y'ALL!But I might swap out Ozzie for Vizquel and Sandy for Maddux. I also feel like there has to be a 2B out there with just as good hands but more range than Ryno

 

[Brady Marino]

I also feel like there has to be a 2B out there with just as good hands but more range than Ryno

Bill Mazeroski?

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

C-Pudge Rodriguez1B-Keith Hernandez2B-Sandberg or MazeroskiSS-Omar Vizquel3B-Brooks RobinsonLF-(It's where the worst fielder is put, so I don't really have a name)CF-Willie MaysRF-ClementeP-Greg Maddux

LF - I don't even want to type his name because he's such a jackoff.

Greg Luzinski?

 

[Raider Nation]

LF - I don't even want to type his name because he's such a jackoff.

Greg Luzinski?

Hint: his head is 12 times bigger now compared to when he was a rookie.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Hint: his head is 12 times bigger now compared to when he was a rookie.

The guy who could not throw out Sid Bream, one of the slowest players in the league? (Ron Hassey had a better time from home to 1st).

 

[Raider Nation]

C-Pudge Rodriguez1B-Keith Hernandez2B-Sandberg or MazeroskiSS-Omar Vizquel3B-Brooks RobinsonLF-(It's where the worst fielder is put, so I don't really have a name)CF-Willie MaysRF-ClementeP-Greg Maddux

Omar over the Wizard? Certainly not ridiculous, but interesting.Speaking of interesting... Maddux over ANY other pitcher ever? Gibson? Pedro? Mathewson?

 

[Raider Nation]

Hint: his head is 12 times bigger now compared to when he was a rookie.

The guy who could not throw out Sid Bream, one of the slowest players in the league? (Ron Hassey had a better time from home to 1st).

C'mon... you're better than that. That's all people remember. Young Barry was incredible in the field.

 

[Eephus]

Well, I have to limit it to players I watched play so I may be missing a few:

C Ray Schalk

1B Bill Terry

2B Joe Gordon

3B Billy Cox

SS Hans Wagner

LF Joe Jackson

CF Oscar Charlton

RF Al Kaline

P Warren Spahn

 

[Northern Voice]

Going on feel, give me Alomar at 2B, defensive metrics don't back it up though...

 

[Raider Nation]

Well, I have to limit it to players I watched play so I may be missing a few:C Ray Schalk1B Bill Terry2B Joe Gordon3B Billy CoxSS Hans WagnerLF Joe JacksonCF Oscar CharltonRF Al KalineP Warren Spahn

That's a helluva list.

 

[shadyridr]

No love for Rolen or Beltre at 3B?

I also think Andruw Jones deserves mention in CF

 

[Raider Nation]

No love for Rolen or Beltre at 3B?

They're in line behind Schmidt.

 

[dparker713]

C-Pudge Rodriguez

1B-Keith Hernandez

2B-Sandberg or Mazeroski

SS-Omar Vizquel

3B-Brooks Robinson

LF-(It's where the worst fielder is put, so I don't really have a name)

CF-Willie Mays

RF-Clemente

P-Greg Maddux

Omar over the Wizard? Certainly not ridiculous, but interesting.Speaking of interesting... Maddux over ANY other pitcher ever? Gibson? Pedro? Mathewson?

That is absolutely, 100% ridiculous. Vizquel at his peak was no where near Ozzie at his peak. Its silly comments like these that make people think Vizquel should have a shot at the HOF.

 

[wadegarrett]

C - Johnny Bench

1B - Don Mattingly

2B - Roberto Alomar

SS - Omar Vizquel

3B - Brooks Robinson

LF - Carl Yastrzemski

CF - Willie Mays

RF - Roberto Clemente

P - Greg Maddux

 

[whoknew]

C-Pudge Rodriguez

1B-Keith Hernandez

2B-Sandberg or Mazeroski

SS-Omar Vizquel

3B-Brooks Robinson

LF-(It's where the worst fielder is put, so I don't really have a name)

CF-Willie Mays

RF-Clemente

P-Greg Maddux

Omar over the Wizard? Certainly not ridiculous, but interesting.Speaking of interesting... Maddux over ANY other pitcher ever? Gibson? Pedro? Mathewson?

That is absolutely, 100% ridiculous. Vizquel at his peak was no where near Ozzie at his peak. Its silly comments like these that make people think Vizquel should have a shot at the HOF.

 

[wadegarrett]

C-Pudge Rodriguez

1B-Keith Hernandez

2B-Sandberg or Mazeroski

SS-Omar Vizquel

3B-Brooks Robinson

LF-(It's where the worst fielder is put, so I don't really have a name)

CF-Willie Mays

RF-Clemente

P-Greg Maddux

Omar over the Wizard? Certainly not ridiculous, but interesting.Speaking of interesting... Maddux over ANY other pitcher ever? Gibson? Pedro? Mathewson?

That is absolutely, 100% ridiculous. Vizquel at his peak was no where near Ozzie at his peak. Its silly comments like these that make people think Vizquel should have a shot at the HOF.

yeah, ok

 

[Limp Ditka]

C-Pudge Rodriguez

1B-Keith Hernandez

2B-Sandberg or Mazeroski

SS-Omar Vizquel

3B-Brooks Robinson

LF-(It's where the worst fielder is put, so I don't really have a name)

CF-Willie Mays

RF-Clemente

P-Greg Maddux

Omar over the Wizard? Certainly not ridiculous, but interesting.Speaking of interesting... Maddux over ANY other pitcher ever? Gibson? Pedro? Mathewson?

That is absolutely, 100% ridiculous. Vizquel at his peak was no where near Ozzie at his peak. Its silly comments like these that make people think Vizquel should have a shot at the HOF.

Exactly. The guy couldn't even do a back flip.

 

[Eephus]

C-Pudge Rodriguez

1B-Keith Hernandez

2B-Sandberg or Mazeroski

SS-Omar Vizquel

3B-Brooks Robinson

LF-(It's where the worst fielder is put, so I don't really have a name)

CF-Willie Mays

RF-Clemente

P-Greg Maddux

Omar over the Wizard? Certainly not ridiculous, but interesting.Speaking of interesting... Maddux over ANY other pitcher ever? Gibson? Pedro? Mathewson?

That is absolutely, 100% ridiculous. Vizquel at his peak was no where near Ozzie at his peak. Its silly comments like these that make people think Vizquel should have a shot at the HOF.

Exactly. The guy couldn't even do a back flip.

Top 50 in career defensive WAR

Rank 	Player (yrs, age) 	Defensive WAR	Bats1.	Brooks Robinson+ (23)	40.0	R2.	Ozzie Smith+ (19)	39.3	B3.	Mark Belanger (18)	38.8	R4.	Joe Tinker+ (15)	34.7	R5.	Luis Aparicio+ (18)	32.9	R6.	Cal Ripken+ (21)	32.1	R7.	Rabbit Maranville+ (23)	30.5	R8.	Bill Dahlen (21)	28.9	R9.	Bobby Wallace+ (25)	28.6	R10.	Art Fletcher (13)	27.9	R11.	Ivan Rodriguez (21, 40)	26.8	R12.	Omar Vizquel (24, 45)	25.9	B13.	Pee Wee Reese+ (16)	25.8	R14.	Roger Peckinpaugh (17)	25.2	R15.	Marty Marion (13)	24.9	R16.	George Davis+ (20)	24.6	B17.	George McBride (16)	23.7	R18.	Bob Boone (19)	23.6	R19.	Jim Sundberg (16)	23.4	R20.	Bill Mazeroski+ (17)	23.3	R21.	Lou Boudreau+ (15)	23.2	R22.	Andruw Jones (17, 35)	23.1	R23.	Dave Bancroft+ (16)	23.0	B24.	Gary Carter+ (19)	22.9	R25.	Jack Glasscock (17)	22.8	R 	Germany Smith (15)	22.8	R27.	Phil Rizzuto+ (13)	22.6	R28.	Travis Jackson+ (15)	22.4	R29.	Clete Boyer (16)	22.2	R 	Joe Gordon+ (11)	22.2	R31.	Roy McMillan (16)	22.1	R32.	Everett Scott (13)	21.8	R33.	Honus Wagner+ (21)	21.7	R34.	Frankie Frisch+ (19)	21.5	B35.	Buddy Bell (18)	21.3	R 	Nellie Fox+ (19)	21.3	L37.	Ozzie Guillen (16)	21.1	L38.	Billy Jurges (17)	21.0	R39.	Ed Brinkman (15)	20.8	R40.	Bert Campaneris (19)	20.7	R41.	Tommy Corcoran (18)	20.3	R 	Alan Trammell (20)	20.3	R 	Terry Turner (17)	20.3	R44.	Adrian Beltre (15, 33)	19.5	R 	Scott Rolen (17, 37)	19.5	R46.	Frank White (18)	19.4	R47.	Dave Concepcion (19)	19.2	R 	Graig Nettles (22)	19.2	L 	Rey Sanchez (15)	19.2	R 	Lee Tannehill (10)	19.2	R

Top 50 in single season defensive WAR

Rank 	Player (age that year) 	Defensive WAR	Year	Bats1.	Terry Turner (25)	5.3	1906	R2.	Art Fletcher (32)	5.0	1917	R3.	Mark Belanger (31)	4.8	1975	R4.	Brooks Robinson+ (31)	4.6	1968	R5.	Mark Belanger (24)	4.5	1968	R6.	Rabbit Maranville+ (22)	4.4	1914	R 	Ozzie Smith+ (34)	4.4	1989	B8.	Brooks Robinson+ (30)	4.3	1967	R9.	Frankie Frisch+ (28)	4.2	1927	B 	Joe Tinker+ (27)	4.2	1908	R11.	Darin Erstad (28)	4.1	2002	L 	Ron Hansen (26)	4.1	1964	R13.	Eddie Miller (26)	4.0	1943	R14.	Luis Aparicio+ (26)	3.9	1960	R 	Graig Nettles (26)	3.9	1971	L16.	Mark Belanger (29)	3.8	1973	R 	Mark Belanger (32)	3.8	1976	R 	Ron Hansen (25)	3.8	1963	R 	Hal Lanier (24)	3.8	1967	R 	Marty Marion (26)	3.8	1944	R 	Rey Ordonez (28)	3.8	1999	R 	Tommy Thevenow (22)	3.8	1926	R 	Joe Tinker+ (24)	3.8	1905	R 	Woody Williams (31)	3.8	1944	R 	Glenn Wright (23)	3.8	1924	R26.	Mark Belanger (34)	3.7	1978	R 	Gary Carter+ (29)	3.7	1983	R 	Adam Everett (29)	3.7	2006	R 	Art Fletcher (34)	3.7	1919	R 	Bobby Grich (24)	3.7	1973	R 	Andruw Jones (21)	3.7	1998	R 	Aurelio Rodriguez (22)	3.7	1970	R 	Chase Utley (29)	3.7	2008	L 	Devon White (29)	3.7	1992	B35.	Dave Bancroft+ (29)	3.6	1920	B 	Hughie Critz (32)	3.6	1933	R 	Ozzie Guillen (23)	3.6	1987	L 	Andruw Jones (22)	3.6	1999	R 	George McBride (32)	3.6	1913	R 	Joe Tinker+ (25)	3.6	1906	R 	Jack Wilson (27)	3.6	2005	R42.	Gene Alley (24)	3.5	1965	R 	Gene Alley (27)	3.5	1968	R 	Ernie Banks+ (28)	3.5	1959	R 	Buddy Bell (27)	3.5	1979	R 	Clete Boyer (24)	3.5	1961	R 	Ed Brinkman (24)	3.5	1966	R 	Bill Dahlen (38)	3.5	1908	R 	George Davis+ (33)	3.5	1904	B 	Art Fletcher (33)	3.5	1918	R

 

[Northern Voice]

Darin Erstad has the best defensive season of the last 3 decades?

 

[sports_fan]

P - Maddux

C - Johnny Bench

1B - Keith Hernandez

2B - Bill Mazeroski

3B - Brooks Robinson

SS - Ozzie Smith

LF - Yaz

CF - Andruw Jones

RF - Clemente

Surprised no one else went with Jones.

 

[Eephus]

Darin Erstad has the best defensive season of the last 3 decades?

Single season advanced fielding metrics seem to have weird anomalies sometimes. Total Zone rates Erstad at an extrordinary 39 fielding runs above average in 2002, but only 14 runs above in the years preceding and following. His OF mates Garrett Anderson and Tim Salmon also had a spike in their high TZ numbers in 2002. Anderson was +12 and Salmon was 0 for that year, which compare very favorably with the surrounding years. Erstad was an above average fielder but was never seen as one of the best gloves in the game. The guy who preceded him in Anaheim has a much better defensive reputation. Erstad's 4.1 dWar in 2002 accounts for almost half of his career total of 9.1. My guess is a very flyball happy pitching staff was the biggest factor in this one. It's just one more reason for me to hate the 2002 Angels.

 

[The Kerminator]

C-Johnny Bench or Yogi Berra

1B-Keith Hernandez

2B-Bill Mazeroski or Sandberg

SS-Ozzie Smith

3B-Brooks Robinson or Craig Nettles

LF-Barry Bonds or Carl Yazstremski

CF-Richie Ashburn or Mays

RF-Roberto Clemente

P-Jim Kaat or Maddux

 

[Raider Nation]

I think a lot of you missed this part.

We want to field a team with fantastic gloves. The pitcher spot is more open to interpretation. If you're trying to hold the other team down, obviously putting a dominant arm on the mound is more important than starting a pitcher who won a lot of Gold Gloves (Maddux and Kaat, for example).

 

[sports_fan]

I think a lot of you missed this part.

We want to field a team with fantastic gloves. The pitcher spot is more open to interpretation. If you're trying to hold the other team down, obviously putting a dominant arm on the mound is more important than starting a pitcher who won a lot of Gold Gloves (Maddux and Kaat, for example).

Disregarding Gold Gloves, I still want Maddux.

 

[Eephus]

I think a lot of you missed this part.

We want to field a team with fantastic gloves. The pitcher spot is more open to interpretation. If you're trying to hold the other team down, obviously putting a dominant arm on the mound is more important than starting a pitcher who won a lot of Gold Gloves (Maddux and Kaat, for example).

Maddux' seven year peak from 92-98 was much better in terms of ERA+ than Koufax' five year peak beginning in 1962. Koufax struck out more batters but with the best defense of all-time behind you, that's less of a factor.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think a lot of you missed this part.

We want to field a team with fantastic gloves. The pitcher spot is more open to interpretation. If you're trying to hold the other team down, obviously putting a dominant arm on the mound is more important than starting a pitcher who won a lot of Gold Gloves (Maddux and Kaat, for example).

Maddux' seven year peak from 92-98 was much better in terms of ERA+ than Koufax' five year peak beginning in 1962. Koufax struck out more batters but with the best defense of all-time behind you, that's less of a factor.

No, that's fine. I wasn't implying that Maddux wasn't a great pitcher or anything, but it was just curious to me that so many people chose him from among EVERY all-time great you could possibly pick.

 

[Raider Nation]

Furthermore, it's shocking to me that we have four people who would want Maddux and nobody who wants Martinez.

For a pitcher at their peak effectiveness ... I was going back and forth between Koufax and Pedro. And I'd take Pedro for one start to save my life 100 times out of 100 over Maddux. Unless Eric Gregg was behind the dish.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Odd, that there has been no mention of Pujols. (a two-time Gold Glove winner).

The guy who I heard praise his defense the most was Keith Hernandez.

Hernandez said Pujols excels at the most difficult play for a 1B: starting a 3-6-3 or 3-4-3 double-play.

You have so many responsibilities that have to be executed near-perfectly in a split second. After fielding the ball you have to pivot and find the throwing angle that doesn't hit the baserunner, but gets the 2B/SS in stride, and then you have to get back to first and set your feet for the return throw.

Pujols was also the infielder who took relay throws from the rightfield. That is usually the 2B.

 

[oso diablo]

C - Ivan Rodriguez

1B - Hernandez

2B - Maz

SS - Belanger

3B - Brooks

LF - Bonds

CF - Mays

RF - Clemente

P - Maddux

 

[Eephus]

Odd, that there has been no mention of Pujols. (a two-time Gold Glove winner).The guy who I heard praise his defense the most was Keith Hernandez.Hernandez said Pujols excels at the most difficult play for a 1B: starting a 3-6-3 or 3-4-3 double-play.You have so many responsibilities that have to be executed near-perfectly in a split second. After fielding the ball you have to pivot and find the throwing angle that doesn't hit the baserunner, but gets the 2B/SS in stride, and then you have to get back to first and set your feet for the return throw.Pujols was also the infielder who took relay throws from the rightfield. That is usually the 2B.

I'd rather have a lefty at 1B and this is kick Pujols when he's down month

 

[Raider Nation]

Odd, that there has been no mention of Pujols. (a two-time Gold Glove winner).The guy who I heard praise his defense the most was Keith Hernandez.Hernandez said Pujols excels at the most difficult play for a 1B: starting a 3-6-3 or 3-4-3 double-play.You have so many responsibilities that have to be executed near-perfectly in a split second. After fielding the ball you have to pivot and find the throwing angle that doesn't hit the baserunner, but gets the 2B/SS in stride, and then you have to get back to first and set your feet for the return throw.Pujols was also the infielder who took relay throws from the rightfield. That is usually the 2B.

I'd rather have a lefty at 1B and this is kick Pujols when he's down month

Teixeira is as good as it gets turning that DP, and he throws right-handed.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

C-Bench

1B-Broderek Perkins

2B-Frank White

3B-Brooks

SS-Honus

RF-Kaline

CF-Griffey Jr

LF-Bonds

DH-Edgar Martinez

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

3B-Brooks

Hubie?

 

[Raider Nation]

3B-Brooks

Hubie?

That's just the way DD spells "Aurelio Rodriguez"...

 

[Eephus]

3B-Brooks

Hubie?

That's just the way DD spells "Aurelio Rodriguez"...

Tom Brookens

 

[Doctor Detroit]

3B-Brooks

Hubie?

That's just the way DD spells "Aurelio Rodriguez"...

Tom Brookens

 

[JaxBill]

Not even a single mention for Gary Maddox?

 

[shadyridr]

CF- Mariano

too soon? :(

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Not even a single mention for Gary Maddox?

Chet Lemon?

 

[Raider Nation]

Not even a single mention for Gary Maddox?

Chet Lemon?

Paul Blair?

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Chet Lemon?

DD, that has got to be one of the best Detroit trades in history.You guys got him straight up for....Steve Kemp.

 

[Raider Nation]

Chet Lemon?

DD, that has got to be one of the best Detroit trades in history.You guys got him straight up for....Steve Kemp.

They needed a centerfielder without a prison record.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Chet Lemon?

DD, that has got to be one of the best Detroit trades in history.You guys got him straight up for....Steve Kemp.

Chet underrated by Tigers fans. One of my best baseball memories as a kid was seeing him throw out Ernie Whitt at 3B on a tailing fly ball right near the rightfield foul poll. Now Ernie Whitt was slow, but Chet caught the ball near the line and Ernie tagged up at 2B, wheeled around and threw an amazing one-hopper to third to kill the Blue Jays rally (think it was the 7th inning). My linkWhen he was in RF he used to throw guys out at home and third quite often and he had some great range there and in CF. He was never a great hitter but he was a solid 20/70 guy who had a low 800 OPS and a penchant for the timely hit. But he made his bacon playing D, Chet could go get it and he had a cannon arm. In fact in What if Sports sim leagues, some of his late 70s seasons are among the best range in the entire sim.

 

[Eephus]

Chet Lemon?

DD, that has got to be one of the best Detroit trades in history.You guys got him straight up for....Steve Kemp.

They needed a centerfielder without a prison record.

Rare straight up trade of two OFs just entering their prime years (both were 26). Their career OPS+ at the time of the trade was almost identical (Kemp 125 vs Lemon 126). Lemon was obviously better defensively but Kemp had a better reputation as a power bat, although Tiger Stadium helped. Kemp's contract was evidently expiring because he left Chicago as a free agent. I couldn't find anything about Lemon's contract status.Quiet Friday night w/ Mrs. eephus so I dug out my old Baseball Abstracts. Bill James mentioned the trade in passing in both the 82 & 83 books but didn't analyze it. He hadn't discovered yet that being provocative sold more books. He did mention that the acquisition had given the Tigers one of the best defensive outfields in baseball with three CFs (Lemon, Gibson & Herndon - and even Glenn Wilson was a decent glove). The trade was a steal for Bill Lajoie. Kemp didn't hit well at all in Comiskey in his only season there. After that, injuries took their toll and Kemp was done as a regular at age 28. He totaled 3.1 WAR after leaving the Tigers. Lemon had 28.8 WAR, all with Detroi.The Tigers and White Sox were in different divisions then but still had a long history going back 75 years. If a deal like that was made today, this board would get really busy for a while.

 

[Tuco]

CF- Marianotoo soon? :(

I chuckled

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Hint: his head is 12 times bigger now compared to when he was a rookie.

The guy who could not throw out Sid Bream, one of the slowest players in the league? (Ron Hassey had a better time from home to 1st).

C'mon... you're better than that. That's all people remember. Young Barry was incredible in the field.

He was old in 1991?

 

[Captain Quinoa]

1B Bill Buckner

 

[the moops]

Furthermore, it's shocking to me that we have four people who would want Maddux and nobody who wants Martinez.For a pitcher at their peak effectiveness ... I was going back and forth between Koufax and Pedro. And I'd take Pedro for one start to save my life 100 times out of 100 over Maddux. Unless Eric Gregg was behind the dish.

What the hell does this have to do with the best defensive team you could field?

 

[Raider Nation]

Furthermore, it's shocking to me that we have four people who would want Maddux and nobody who wants Martinez.For a pitcher at their peak effectiveness ... I was going back and forth between Koufax and Pedro. And I'd take Pedro for one start to save my life 100 times out of 100 over Maddux. Unless Eric Gregg was behind the dish.

What the hell does this have to do with the best defensive team you could field?

We want to field a team with fantastic gloves. The pitcher spot is more open to interpretation. If you're trying to hold the other team down, obviously putting a dominant arm on the mound is more important than starting a pitcher who won a lot of Gold Gloves (Maddux and Kaat, for example).