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Good Strategy...or cheating? (1 Viewer)

J

JimBob2232

Footballguy
Okay, so my league has no playoffs. its H2H, and winner take all. This weeks games are decided and I am tied for first at 12-3. There is only one week left in our fantasy season.

The first tiebreaker is most points scored, which I will lose if we are both 13-3 or 12-4. The only way I can win is if I win and he loses.

Team A (my team) is playing Team B (1-14 record). Team C (my challanger at 12-3) is playin Team D (8-7 or 7-8 depending on tonight). Team D also has the #1 waiver priority.

I have some players who can help out team D. Is it wrong for me to drop a player so that he can be claimed by team D to help him this week?

Is that Good Strategy or Cheating? Opinions?

 
Your league rules allow it so good strat if Team D is paying attention. Unusual rules though being able to pickup guys that are dropped in the same week, and being able to drop guys prior to waivers.

 
I've never heard of a fantasy league that doesn't have playoffs. And it seems like the first tie-breaker shoud be H2H if it's a H2H league.

 
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I think if you decided to drop a player to clear space, it's really up to you to decide what is reasonable. If you are dropping MJD or someone like that, it's pretty weasel-ly. I would be pissed, as should all other members of your league. If you are dropping Donald Driver or someone who is a producer, but not bonefied stud, you are probably just this side of shady.

Just ask yourself...would YOU be pissed if someone else in the league did it to you?

 
JimBob2232 said:
Okay, so my league has no playoffs. its H2H, and winner take all. This weeks games are decided and I am tied for first at 12-3. There is only one week left in our fantasy season. The first tiebreaker is most points scored, which I will lose if we are both 13-3 or 12-4. The only way I can win is if I win and he loses.Team A (my team) is playing Team B (1-14 record). Team C (my challanger at 12-3) is playin Team D (8-7 or 7-8 depending on tonight). Team D also has the #1 waiver priority. I have some players who can help out team D. Is it wrong for me to drop a player so that he can be claimed by team D to help him this week?Is that Good Strategy or Cheating? Opinions?
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You haven't talked to Team D about this, right? Right?Because that would be collusion, not cool.However, let's say you haven't discussed it:Team D is Team "D" because he may not be as smart as you would like to be. You could drop some key player and Team D in all his Team D brilliance could pass, thereby giving an advantage to the opponent whom you were trying to harm.Team D could also pick up these players, win out and wind up kicking your team to the curb in the SB.
 
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Definitely questionable yet I can't help but thinking if something like this were possible in the NFL we would see coaches do it every year.

 
Is "Team D" even the type of dude who likes to play spoiler?

If not, it will be obvious that you suggested that he should pick up these players.

 
If it's not talked about before the drop, I see nothing wrong with it. If you don't need a guy and the player could help the owner who has the #1 claim..what's the problem? It's not collusion unless it's planned out beforehand.

 
Don't do it if you are a mature adult. Do it if you are a self centered, selfish ##### who doesn't give a crap about any kind of ethics.

 
you do realize collusion is an act between 2 parties ...right? If he drop s a guy hoping that the #1 priority claim owner grabs him to help beat his opponent....how in the world is that collusion?....it's not

Edit..also noticed it's the last week of his season..why should he hold onto players he would never use?..

 
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theplayer11 said:
you do realize collusion is an act between 2 parties ...right? If he drop s a guy hoping that the #1 priority claim owner grabs him to help beat his opponent....how in the world is that collusion?....it's not
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Yup. I'm not sure I would do it---I think you can argue it's morally questionable.But unless you've talked to the other owner, it's decidedly NOT collusion.
 
If the shoe was on the other foot... would you care? It's a crappy move, very crappy... and I'm not even the most serious of fantasy player.

 
Prinefan said:
Don't do it if you are a mature adult. Do it if you are a self centered, selfish ##### who doesn't give a crap about any kind of ethics.
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Does winning really have anything to do with ethics?Are winning NFL teams at all ethical in their dealings with players or are they driven by anything more than the bottom line?If ethics were truly important to us we would all stop watching the NFL entirely. In fact we would probably stop doing most of the things we do that we take for granted in our lives. The NFL is a pretty darn unethical corporation, then again how many successful corporations are truly ethical.Go watch Earthlings (free online) or The Corporation (also free) or any of a number of documentaries and decide how important ethics truly is in our lives.ETA: Earthlings is extremely graphic and those with a weak stomach should probably avoid it. Seriously.
 
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I think it is "karma" challenging but the problem is the league set up not if you do it. So if you drop MBush this week and the guy who is playing your rival week 17 picks him up are you ethically wrong if he ends up a solid RB2 option that goes for 100 and a TD?

I probably wouldn't do it but I certainly would be on the phone talking up the best free agents.

 
Wow, lots of good discussion. Thanks guys!

I have not (and will not) speak to the other owner about this, as that is obviously going too far.

Secondly, this is a keeper league. players need to be on my roster by GAMETIME this week to be considered keepers. I have Romo and Schaub...I wont be keeping either of them, let alone both of them. Good strategy (which we used last year) was to drop guys you dont need for week 16 and take a flier on a RB (i.e. Shonn Greene). It just so happens that by Dropping Romo, Team D in the above post can pick him up and start him...why is that wrong.

I agree H2H should be the tiebreaker, i will talk to the commish about rule revision. For the record though, we are 1-1 H2H this year.

I agree with the basic sentiment here though...if its that hot button in this forum, its not worth doing. Although i think a rule revision to prevent is in order.

Thanks again.

 
Keepers said:
Your league rules allow it so good strat if Team D is paying attention. Unusual rules though being able to pickup guys that are dropped in the same week, and being able to drop guys prior to waivers.
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Wrong. Two teams dont work together in fantasy football.
 
Now that we know it's not collusion...

I'm not a fan of this. I play in a 5 owner, 2 team league (10 teams total) and qualified both teams for the playoffs in week 13 (playoffs began this week). I could have tanked the weaker team's week 14 and ended up not playing myself in the first round of the playoffs. I didn't do it, even if I really thought about it and was tempted in some ways. Sure enough, my two teams have outscored both of the other playoff teams this week. Oh well -- Herm Edwards says you play to win the game.

If you make a move that is 100% because your league format makes it a wise move for you, no harm and no foul in my book. If that's not your aim, I think it's weak that you'd make a move to try to influence the outcome of another game. I don't know that it would be against the rules (unless there is a specific rule against it), but it's nothing I could ever feel good about. If this is a rabid shark league, maybe my opinion changes. This is cut throat, though. It's the sort of stuff you could lose friends over if you ask me. Is it worth that?

 
My 2 cents. If you did not discuss with team D and you are following the rules, it is not cheating. However if team D has nothing to play for who says he will even bother picking up any player you drop. If he does not pick him up, maybe your opponent or the team your tied with might pick them up and screw you. Could end up being a shark move or come back and bite you in the but. At any rate it would probably result in a rules change in your league for next year.

 
It seems you are allowed to drop players.

It seems that team D is allowed to pick up dropped players.

No problem here, as long as that's all that it is.

Any side agreement ($, etc.) would cross the line though.

 
JimBob2232 said:
Wow, lots of good discussion. Thanks guys!I have not (and will not) speak to the other owner about this, as that is obviously going too far.Secondly, this is a keeper league. players need to be on my roster by GAMETIME this week to be considered keepers. I have Romo and Schaub...I wont be keeping either of them, let alone both of them. Good strategy (which we used last year) was to drop guys you dont need for week 16 and take a flier on a RB (i.e. Shonn Greene). It just so happens that by Dropping Romo, Team D in the above post can pick him up and start him...why is that wrong.I agree H2H should be the tiebreaker, i will talk to the commish about rule revision. For the record though, we are 1-1 H2H this year.I agree with the basic sentiment here though...if its that hot button in this forum, its not worth doing. Although i think a rule revision to prevent is in order.Thanks again.
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With it being a keeper league it would be ironic if the guy with the 1st pick doesn't take the guy you drop but rather goes for a keeper flyer and the team you play picks up the player you drop and subsequently beats you with your rival also losing.
 
Not judging one way or the other - I just find it odd that in sports it's generally understood among competitors that you win by any means necessary as long as you play by the rules. For example, in basketball a guard drives the lane and barely brushes a defender, but the guy flops to the ground like he was just beaten like a step-child. The offensive player isn't upset at the guy even though he played oppossum to get a call. He's upset with the ref for falling for it. Or teams understanding the opponent will try to intercept calls or interpret signals for future use. None of those things are "ethical" but if it's not against the rules...

But with hobbies, we're much more interested in what's "fair" rather than winning. To the point that if you don't act ethically, you cheated! That's a strong word for somebody taking a legal action to help himself win. I'd be curious to know how many of the people who say this would be cheating/collusion/etc. have played organized sports in their lives and vice versa.

I've played organized sports and I think it's shaped my view on the subject.

 
FantasyTrader said:
Not judging one way or the other - I just find it odd that in sports it's generally understood among competitors that you win by any means necessary as long as you play by the rules. For example, in basketball a guard drives the lane and barely brushes a defender, but the guy flops to the ground like he was just beaten like a step-child. The offensive player isn't upset at the guy even though he played oppossum to get a call. He's upset with the ref for falling for it. Or teams understanding the opponent will try to intercept calls or interpret signals for future use. None of those things are "ethical" but if it's not against the rules...

But with hobbies, we're much more interested in what's "fair" rather than winning. To the point that if you don't act ethically, you cheated! That's a strong word for somebody taking a legal action to help himself win. I'd be curious to know how many of the people who say this would be cheating/collusion/etc. have played organized sports in their lives and vice versa.

I've played organized sports and I think it's shaped my view on the subject.
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Forget organized sports, I wonder how many have lived their lives as ethically as they are demanding those in fantasy leagues do?
 
FantasyTrader said:
Not judging one way or the other - I just find it odd that in sports it's generally understood among competitors that you win by any means necessary as long as you play by the rules. For example, in basketball a guard drives the lane and barely brushes a defender, but the guy flops to the ground like he was just beaten like a step-child. The offensive player isn't upset at the guy even though he played oppossum to get a call. He's upset with the ref for falling for it. Or teams understanding the opponent will try to intercept calls or interpret signals for future use. None of those things are "ethical" but if it's not against the rules...

But with hobbies, we're much more interested in what's "fair" rather than winning. To the point that if you don't act ethically, you cheated! That's a strong word for somebody taking a legal action to help himself win. I'd be curious to know how many of the people who say this would be cheating/collusion/etc. have played organized sports in their lives and vice versa.

I've played organized sports and I think it's shaped my view on the subject.
Click to expand...
Wow. I have to disagree with you on both these counts. Players that repeatedly try to draw offensive fouls are known as floppers, and it is not appreciated at all around the league. Repercussions are handed out in the form of extremely aggressive screens and hard fouls at the rim. As for stealing signs, you better be good at it or you still get a fastball in the ear.And furthermore, I take umbrage with your generalization that "it's generally understood among competitors that you win by any means necessary as long as you play by the rules." There is a spirit to sports and competition between people. Those who try to find every loophole in the rulebook miss the point. I do not display trophies that I've won, but if I went and pulled the box out of the garage, I could tell you which ones I am proud of, and sadly, which I am not. The point is not just the win, but how you win.

 
JimBob2232 said:
Is that Good Strategy or Cheating? Opinions?
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Oh so you want my opinion? Ok you're an ####### for even thinking this is cool, if you were so much of a ### that you would do it, it would elevate you to a ####### ########.My recommendation is to go for it that way it will expose you as the ##### you are and give your league mates a chance to play in a ##### free league after they boot you!*This is my solicited opinion and in no way am I actually calling you names.
 
Towlie said:
JimBob2232 said:
Is that Good Strategy or Cheating? Opinions?
Click to expand...
Oh so you want my opinion? Ok you're an ####### for even thinking this is cool, if you were so much of a ### that you would do it, it would elevate you to a ####### ########.My recommendation is to go for it that way it will expose you as the ##### you are and give your league mates a chance to play in a ##### free league after they boot you!*This is my solicited opinion and in no way am I actually calling you names.
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Well that was an ethical response.
 
The Redbeard said:
FantasyTrader said:
Not judging one way or the other - I just find it odd that in sports it's generally understood among competitors that you win by any means necessary as long as you play by the rules. For example, in basketball a guard drives the lane and barely brushes a defender, but the guy flops to the ground like he was just beaten like a step-child. The offensive player isn't upset at the guy even though he played oppossum to get a call. He's upset with the ref for falling for it. Or teams understanding the opponent will try to intercept calls or interpret signals for future use. None of those things are "ethical" but if it's not against the rules...

But with hobbies, we're much more interested in what's "fair" rather than winning. To the point that if you don't act ethically, you cheated! That's a strong word for somebody taking a legal action to help himself win. I'd be curious to know how many of the people who say this would be cheating/collusion/etc. have played organized sports in their lives and vice versa.

I've played organized sports and I think it's shaped my view on the subject.
Click to expand...
Wow. I have to disagree with you on both these counts. Players that repeatedly try to draw offensive fouls are known as floppers, and it is not appreciated at all around the league. Repercussions are handed out in the form of extremely aggressive screens and hard fouls at the rim. As for stealing signs, you better be good at it or you still get a fastball in the ear.And furthermore, I take umbrage with your generalization that "it's generally understood among competitors that you win by any means necessary as long as you play by the rules." There is a spirit to sports and competition between people. Those who try to find every loophole in the rulebook miss the point. I do not display trophies that I've won, but if I went and pulled the box out of the garage, I could tell you which ones I am proud of, and sadly, which I am not. The point is not just the win, but how you win.
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You can disagree. You're wrong but you can disagree. Want a clearer example? How about the ultimate "lose the battle but win the war" play. Purposely dropping to a knee at the 1 yard line and taking six points off the board. There's simply no way you can intelligently argue that's no immediately helping you opponent for the sake of giving your team a higher percentage to win. A play that, by the way, was borne out of the fact that there were times defenses were purposely allowing the other team to score so they would get the ball back with time on the clock. Sports is chalk full of helping other teams now to increase your chances of success. But in sports we call it "savvy" and "heads up". We'll agree to disagree. "Reprecussions are handed out" my ###! That extremely aggressive screen and hard foul at the rim was coming either way. You and I both know it. Why? Because it gives them the best chance of winning.

 
rvmblack said:
That is collusion and you should be removed from your league
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Actually, I don't believe it is collusion. Collusion would necessitate some agreement between the owners. If he just drops the players, its fair game.Of course, the losing team may not pick them up and who knows, it may end up going to the team that could beat the OP's team... but I dont see this as collusion unless some agreement / understanding occurs.
 
100% not collusion.

You aren't keeping Romo...well I would take a flier on a young guy out there regardless of the potential for th emove to help out a guy to beat your rival.

That's what makes it ok for me. Under these rules, I am dropping my backup QB anyway to try for a guy I might actually keep. Whether or not it helps someone else is irrelevant, IMO

 
I think it stinks but your league clearly allows it with your goofy system and stupid tiebreakers I guess.

Any league that is set up in ways that make unethical moves so easy to accomplish when cash is involved is just asking for trouble, and you are jumping into the cess pool here.

 
People need to stop with the ethics argument. NFL teams don't care about ethics so why should fantasy players? Especially when in real life most of us don't think about making the ethical decision over the decision that benefits us most.

 
Without discussing it with anyone, it is not collusion. There is a chance team D won't even notice and add the player. Considering the strange format of your league, it's not a bad strategy, although not exactly "gentlemenly" of you. It's definitely not cheating.

 
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