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HERD's 2008 NFL Mock Draft - Round 1 (1 Viewer)

that top 30 is outstanding. You're making me :banned: for the draft and its not even week 3. I dont know what to tell you about Johnson, I just don't see the wiggle that he'll need to translate to the next level. At best, he's Chris Brown.
I'm with you there. He actually has pretty good balance and feet, but he looks like a bit of a FB/RB 'tweener to me. I don't think he has a future as more than a backup or change-of-pace guy in the NFL. In this class alone there are four backs who clearly have more talent (Rice, Slaton, McFadden, Stewart). There's another handful of guys who I might also prefer (J. Davis, Choice, F. Jones, etc).
 
Andy Dufresne said:
EBF said:
You're on the money with Doucet and Jackson though. Both guys are first round picks. Like you, I expect Jackson to go high.
Jackson is top 10, maybe top 5. He's Ted Ginn with a better WR pedigree.
Jackson is more like Moss/Smith to me - more compact build, a little more hard-nosed than the lankier Ginn, which also translates to better lateral agility to get open. Jackson has that fifth gear, but there's more than just sizzle. With the ever-growing premium on speed, top 10 is not a reach.
Indeed. He definitly doesn't have the strength of Steve Smith at this point, which is a big part of Smith's game, which is why I was leaning toward Santana Moss.He is fast as hell though, but I agree with CC... his value has not really gone up so far this year, just the hype.
 
that top 30 is outstanding. You're making me :thumbup: for the draft and its not even week 3. I dont know what to tell you about Johnson, I just don't see the wiggle that he'll need to translate to the next level. At best, he's Chris Brown.
I'm with you there. He actually has pretty good balance and feet, but he looks like a bit of a FB/RB 'tweener to me. I don't think he has a future as more than a backup or change-of-pace guy in the NFL. In this class alone there are four backs who clearly have more talent (Rice, Slaton, McFadden, Stewart). There's another handful of guys who I might also prefer (J. Davis, Choice, F. Jones, etc).
...J.Charles, M.Lucky, R.Torain, J.Forsett...
 
I don't get the Jackson/Ginn comparisons. Jackson is a heckuva lot more complete as a WR than Ginn. Ginn is little more than a punt returner. Jackson is a WR who can also return punts.

 
I don't get the Jackson/Ginn comparisons. Jackson is a heckuva lot more complete as a WR than Ginn. Ginn is little more than a punt returner. Jackson is a WR who can also return punts.
It's just a rough comparison. Both guys are shorter WRs known for their electric big play skills. Ginn is a little bit more of a long-strider, whereas Jackson has better lateral movement and lower body strength. Saying "Ginn is little more than a punt returner" isn't really fair at this point. His receiving numbers in college were right up there with Santonio's during their years at Ohio State. I agree that Jackson is more accomplished and polished than Ginn entering the league, but that doesn't mean there aren't any similarities in their game.
 
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27. Chicago Bears - Chad Henne - QB - UM - See ya, Rex.
Please God, no.If Rex tanks again this season, I don't think the Bears go QB in the first round. I think Angelo goes after a veteran that can come in and play better than Griese since the window for a title doesn't stay open for long. I see the Bears going for an o-lineman in the first round as they certainly need to get some young talent in there as the Bear line is pretty old.
 
kremenull said:
5. Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech

Everyone's ranking of this guy projects him way too low. A very savvy, instinctive, and tough runner who not only looks the part but can carry the load. Runs a bit upright, but from what I see, he looks to be about the 4th/5th best RB who will be entering the 2008 draft..........no matter who enters.
Chaos Commish in 3....2..... :D
1Didn't this uber stud all world underrated superhero in disguise as a common football player just go for 30 yards in 15 carries against BC? 2 yards a carry? Behind that OL? Oh how I wish this was your week to do him. :thumbup:

He did roast Samford though. Not Stanford, Samford. Oh yeah, and the mighty Irish. :lol:

Behind that OL and taking direct snaps...

Hey, I hate bagging on any college football player. Personally, I just don't see the juice for a 6-1 200 pounder to translate. I guess he could fill out, and I did see one very explosive run from him this year where I thought... maybe... but hyping him in a class like this? Barely a top ten talent methinks.

Before Kremenull takes offense, I loved your list otherwise. Felix is a stud.

 
The only reason I compared Jackson to Ginn was to say that if Ginn can go at #9 overall, and Jackson is a better receiver than Ginn while still being able to return kicks, that Jackson should easily go top 10 if not 5.

THe comparisons to Moss/Smith are more accurate from a talent standpoint.

 
I don't get the Jackson/Ginn comparisons. Jackson is a heckuva lot more complete as a WR than Ginn. Ginn is little more than a punt returner. Jackson is a WR who can also return punts.
It's just a rough comparison. Both guys are shorter WRs known for their electric big play skills. Ginn is a little bit more of a long-strider, whereas Jackson has better lateral movement and lower body strength. Saying "Ginn is little more than a punt returner" isn't really fair at this point. His receiving numbers in college were right up there with Santonio's during their years at Ohio State. I agree that Jackson is more accomplished and polished than Ginn entering the league, but that doesn't mean there aren't any similarities in their game.
Jackson is much better in traffic than Ginn -- better route-runner and better hands. Ginn had good numbers in college, but a lot of that was on backyard "Ginn, go deep" playcalling. They have completely different styles.
 
I don't get the Jackson/Ginn comparisons. Jackson is a heckuva lot more complete as a WR than Ginn. Ginn is little more than a punt returner. Jackson is a WR who can also return punts.
It's just a rough comparison. Both guys are shorter WRs known for their electric big play skills. Ginn is a little bit more of a long-strider, whereas Jackson has better lateral movement and lower body strength. Saying "Ginn is little more than a punt returner" isn't really fair at this point. His receiving numbers in college were right up there with Santonio's during their years at Ohio State. I agree that Jackson is more accomplished and polished than Ginn entering the league, but that doesn't mean there aren't any similarities in their game.
Jackson is much better in traffic than Ginn -- better route-runner and better hands. Ginn had good numbers in college, but a lot of that was on backyard "Ginn, go deep" playcalling. They have completely different styles.
Yea, I'm really not denying that. But I'm also not denying that two dynamic first round WRs/KRs have some common traits.
 
I hesitate to do this knowing how much Ginn is hated, but in the pursuit of truth here goes... again.

I don't get the Smith/Moss talk regarding Desean. I have Jackson as WR1 in this class, so don't misinterpret this, but let's get some facts right. Jackson played all of last year at 165 pounds. He worked all summer to beef up and weighed in at 172 this August, but it's believed he probably lost weight through camp and is back under 170. I stood shoulder to shoulder with him this summer at an event in LA. He is probably 5-11 and a half, thus they list him at 6-0. Cal is not a school known for fudging on the program. Jackson is as tall and thinner than Ginn. Jackson's legs are very skinny, but what's worse is that he isn't much for the weight room. Ginn is a weightroom warrior, he has giant traps for his size, his shoulders are blown up and he has defined pecs and lats. The dude is totally ripped. Jackson is obviously lean and strong, but he is not nearly as strong as Ginn anywhere, not in his calves, thighs, butt, back, shoulders arms or neck. Ginn makes him look small.

Now to the receiving bit. Ginn has great hands. His OSU coaches said he had the best hands on the team when Holmes and Gonzo were both there. Jackson has good hands, but not like Ginn, who really can snag a bad pass. Ginn made his living not on deep routes as he's been falsely accused, but on hitches, slants and crossing patterns into the teeth of the defense. Just look at his highlights and that is what you see, along with the deep ball, but Ginn goes over the middle fearlessly. Jackson has yet to prove that. Ginn has a sharper portfolio of routes and it is Desean living off of the deep ball last year.

Very little of this is opinion, btw. Just the naked facts of who they are, what they weigh, how strong they are, how they play and I'm just setting the record straight.

It's like dejavu in a sense. A year ago everyone was comparing Ginn to Moss and Smith and I was correcting it. Desean and Ted are much different body types from those guys but very similar to each other. Ginn being significantly stronger at this point.

 
kremenull said:
5. Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech

Everyone's ranking of this guy projects him way too low. A very savvy, instinctive, and tough runner who not only looks the part but can carry the load. Runs a bit upright, but from what I see, he looks to be about the 4th/5th best RB who will be entering the 2008 draft..........no matter who enters.
Chaos Commish in 3....2..... :D
1Didn't this uber stud all world underrated superhero in disguise as a common football player just go for 30 yards in 15 carries against BC? 2 yards a carry? Behind that OL? Oh how I wish this was your week to do him. :lol:

He did roast Samford though. Not Stanford, Samford. Oh yeah, and the mighty Irish. :lol:

Behind that OL and taking direct snaps...

Hey, I hate bagging on any college football player. Personally, I just don't see the juice for a 6-1 200 pounder to translate. I guess he could fill out, and I did see one very explosive run from him this year where I thought... maybe... but hyping him in a class like this? Barely a top ten talent methinks.

Before Kremenull takes offense, I loved your list otherwise. Felix is a stud.
:shock: :lmao: :lmao: hey, didn't Bobby Bowden coach at Samford? They must be good.

As I've explained, I have a top 12 draft eligible RB list and he's near the bottom of it. I don't think we disagree on that. Besides, he's looking miserable in the wdcrob model as he'll be 23.80 years old on Sept 1st.

 
Ginn is a weightroom warrior, he has giant traps for his size, his shoulders are blown up and he has defined pecs and lats. The dude is totally ripped. Jackson is obviously lean and strong, but he is not nearly as strong as Ginn anywhere, not in his calves, thighs, butt, back, shoulders arms or neck. Ginn makes him look small.
:shock:
 
kremenull said:
5. Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech

Everyone's ranking of this guy projects him way too low. A very savvy, instinctive, and tough runner who not only looks the part but can carry the load. Runs a bit upright, but from what I see, he looks to be about the 4th/5th best RB who will be entering the 2008 draft..........no matter who enters.
Chaos Commish in 3....2..... :lmao:
1Didn't this uber stud all world underrated superhero in disguise as a common football player just go for 30 yards in 15 carries against BC? 2 yards a carry? Behind that OL? Oh how I wish this was your week to do him. :shock:

He did roast Samford though. Not Stanford, Samford. Oh yeah, and the mighty Irish. :lmao:

Behind that OL and taking direct snaps...

Hey, I hate bagging on any college football player. Personally, I just don't see the juice for a 6-1 200 pounder to translate. I guess he could fill out, and I did see one very explosive run from him this year where I thought... maybe... but hyping him in a class like this? Barely a top ten talent methinks.

Before Kremenull takes offense, I loved your list otherwise. Felix is a stud.
Rarely, if even, any offense taken.....I'm not touting him as an uber stud, just thinking that he is vastly underrated and may pan out a lot better than some of these other RBs, overrated guys like I.Johnson, Hart, Ore, and maybe even, dare I say, R.Rice............
 
Ginn is a weightroom warrior, he has giant traps for his size, his shoulders are blown up and he has defined pecs and lats. The dude is totally ripped. Jackson is obviously lean and strong, but he is not nearly as strong as Ginn anywhere, not in his calves, thighs, butt, back, shoulders arms or neck. Ginn makes him look small.
:confused:
Yes. Genetically he just isn't going to be a big bulky football player, but he is a work out warrior. He has been since junior high. His dad had him in the weight room way back then and even in specific performance programs like draftees use prior to the combine. Ginn works very hard and he is strong for his frame. Jackson not so much. He is light and he flies, and I agree he may be better with the vertical jukes, and maybe that makes the difference, but otherwise much of what was said in this thread was inaccurate. Somewhere out there is a pick of Ginn in a t-shirt. The dude is all muscle, lean and slender for sure, but obviously built from hours and hours of hard work. Jackson is soft in comparison.Skinny

eta: from being around Desean and seeing pics of Ginn, I would guess Tedd at 178 has about 15 pounds of muscle on Jackson at 168.

 
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I hesitate to do this knowing how much Ginn is hated, but in the pursuit of truth here goes... again.I don't get the Smith/Moss talk regarding Desean. I have Jackson as WR1 in this class, so don't misinterpret this, but let's get some facts right. Jackson played all of last year at 165 pounds. He worked all summer to beef up and weighed in at 172 this August, but it's believed he probably lost weight through camp and is back under 170. I stood shoulder to shoulder with him this summer at an event in LA. He is probably 5-11 and a half, thus they list him at 6-0. Cal is not a school known for fudging on the program. Jackson is as tall and thinner than Ginn. Jackson's legs are very skinny, but what's worse is that he isn't much for the weight room. Ginn is a weightroom warrior, he has giant traps for his size, his shoulders are blown up and he has defined pecs and lats. The dude is totally ripped. Jackson is obviously lean and strong, but he is not nearly as strong as Ginn anywhere, not in his calves, thighs, butt, back, shoulders arms or neck. Ginn makes him look small. Now to the receiving bit. Ginn has great hands. His OSU coaches said he had the best hands on the team when Holmes and Gonzo were both there. Jackson has good hands, but not like Ginn, who really can snag a bad pass. Ginn made his living not on deep routes as he's been falsely accused, but on hitches, slants and crossing patterns into the teeth of the defense. Just look at his highlights and that is what you see, along with the deep ball, but Ginn goes over the middle fearlessly. Jackson has yet to prove that. Ginn has a sharper portfolio of routes and it is Desean living off of the deep ball last year. Very little of this is opinion, btw. Just the naked facts of who they are, what they weigh, how strong they are, how they play and I'm just setting the record straight.It's like dejavu in a sense. A year ago everyone was comparing Ginn to Moss and Smith and I was correcting it. Desean and Ted are much different body types from those guys but very similar to each other. Ginn being significantly stronger at this point.
I think you'd agree that most of Ginn's routes were straight-line routes. Jackson's routes have a lot more variation to them. Jackson has the ability to beat a CB either with his speed or by leaving the CB flat-footed on a route. I never got that out of Ginn.Ginn also dropped a fair amount of easy catches. I think you are selling short Jackson's ability to catch over the middle, as I've seen a good amount of that from him (more than I ever saw from Ginn).I'm not really interested in recycling April debates about Ginn. I just see Ginn and Jackson as different WR's and Jackson impresses me more.
 
Aside from getting lit up on an early block, Calais looked reasonably good last night. Very agile for a guy that size. Reminds me a hair of Kearse.

 
FWIW Ginn is listed at 5'11" 178 lbs, S.Moss 5'10" 200 lbs.

To the naked eye, Moss looks shorter than that, but he's got to be near or at 200.

Ginn might look big in person, but relative to other WRs under 6', he appears somewhat lanky and skinny.

Maybe I'm wrong about Jackson being short, but there is no question he is slight/skinny. He does seem to play with his body lower to the ground which is why he can make those Reggie Bush-like jukes while Ginn is more of a straight-line burner.

I never doubted Ginn's hands, but did question his route-running ability. I do still have both of those questions about Jackson as well as his potential to bulk up, but I would not be surprised to see Jackson become a better NFL WR and perhaps returner as well.

 
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18. Houston Texans - Ray Rice - RB - Rutgers - The Ahman 2 year stop gap cedes to the Rice years.
First off, nice 1st attempt Colin! :own3d: 2nd, Rice will be a good player for somebody out there but nothing about Kubiak, his Denver pedigree or passing on Reggie Bush suggests to me that the Texans will ever take a RB in the 1st round. At least, not any time soon as they seem to think RB's are luxuries. This is a team constantly quoted as being building for the longterm and even this preseason the GM and others went on record saying they still thought they were a couple of drafts away from being anywhere near where they want to be. With no 2nd round pick in '08, I see them going BPA at a need position. O'line, CB, S and WR (Jacoby Jones addition notwithstanding) are those needs. Depth at all positions is also still a major concern.Something else to consider which will make it hard to mock the Texans is that they have over $30M in dead money that comes off the books next year. They could end up being quite active in the FA market once that cap space is available next offseason.
 
i don't know much about the rest of the DE's around the country, but that chris long looks pretty scary. when i watch him, i keep thinking of a white julius peppers.

i guess playing in the ACC can make alot of guys look pretty good, but he's a great pass rusher and even looks pretty good dropping back in coverage.

 
Colin Dowling said:
Aside from getting lit up on an early block, Calais looked reasonably good last night. Very agile for a guy that size. Reminds me a hair of Kearse.
He got jacked up. He looked quicker last year, and this is the second time this year I've noted it. He seems more focused on the run game, which is good, and he made some nice plays first collapsing then moving down the line to the ball carrier. If I was updating rankings weekly, I think he'd slide out of the top five after that performance, but still be top 10, imo. Not that it was bad, just that it wasn't top 5 elite. That D is loaded with ballplayers, so it's tough for a DE to rack up stats. Kearse is a good compare, a 6-8 Javon Kearse.
 
You guys think Ray Rice is turning pro and going in the first round?
I've been suggesting he is a very good candidate to stay in school in other threads. My list was merely a very early and loose ranking of the top 30 draft eligible prospects. It was not an attempt at a first round. RBs and MLBs on my list will be drafted later than they are ranked every year. At least that's generally the case. I am impressed enough with Rice to consider him a top 30 eligible talent, but I would probably project him to the second if we get a good 45-50 underclassmen to come out AND he's one of them. I have him rated a tick above Felix Jones right now, but I think Felix would go in the first... so explosive and more versatile. Mocking and ranking are two different things, but that's where I was coming from. Rice has NFL game EG. What do you think?
 
I expect Jonathan Stewart from Oregon to be a major, major contender for the RB2 slot in this draft. He has the best build of any RB in the draft (much better than McFadden) and will probably outshine Rice and Slaton at the combine. He's having a big year so far...
I hate it when I read things like this, so I hate it worse that I'm saying it... but if not for the 88 yard run Stewart would be having a mediocre campaign so far. I've watched every carry of his season. I am really torn about him. I see a lot of TJ Duckett, and I see flashes of Fred Taylor, a young Fred Taylor, the guy who scored 17 TDs in 12 games as a rookie. His field speed does not match his Pac 10 60 yard dash championship speed, unless, like on the 88 yarder, it is just a straight sprint. He gets run down a lot for a track star. He also runs into the backs of his blockers a lot. Jeremiah Johnson has him in RBBC for good reason. Stewart is stiff in the passing game, both receiving and blocking, while Johnson is a natural. Stewart has very little wiggle. I'll certainly keep watching because I thought Taylor would have been a beast if not for the injuries.I do agree with your take... major contender for RB2 based on crazy measureables and a solid year. I doubt I could ever rank him that high, but I could project him there for the draft. I know I would prefer Slaton, and I'm pretty sure I prefer Rice and Jones, but we have a way to go yet.

 
You're on the money with Doucet and Jackson though. Both guys are first round picks. Like you, I expect Jackson to go high.
Jackson is top 10, maybe top 5. He's Ted Ginn with a better WR pedigree.
That's a pretty accurate assessment. He should be the first WR chosen in 2008.
I'd bet the mortgage that barring injury he will be WR1. He's special, but there also aren't any other WRs that are even close to top-10 material. Someone might break through, but I'd bet against it.
As of right now you guys are off on this kid. I struggled to make him WR1 in my rankings and after watching him very closely today, there's no way I would rank him that high, probably not top 4 but I have several games to review first. He really needs to step up. Cason jammed him with ease and no matter what others say, DeSean is uncomfortable over the middle. Ginn could not be jammed last year. Ask Leon Hall.DeSean went 3 for 39 today again with no receiving TDs. In 4 games he now has 18 catches for 151 yards and no TDs. He really has to improve. His lack of physical strength caused him to be completely taken out of two games in a row. The key, imo, for NCAA WRs to translate is toughness. DeSean needs to toughen up, strengthen up, and probably stay in school another year. You can hype him all you want, but he has to do it on the field. There is no way he is a top 5 or top 10 elite draft pick at this point. I don't think he would be a first rounder if they held the draft tomorrow.He is a blast to watch when he's burning everyone but he really needs to start doing that again. If Jamming him is the answer, then he has a big problem. Buit it was worse than that. He didn't even try to beat double teams several times today. He just ran a sloppy, round route and jogged back to the huddle. Strange game.
He is fast as hell though, but I agree with CC... his value has not really gone up so far this year, just the hype.
The media really did hype him and the punt return and reverse got people talking, but he is not looking like much of a wide out right now, maybe not the best pure receiver on his team. I'm coming around on Mike Hart too. He doesn't stand out in any category but remains outstanding... a little "it" factor going on with him. You were right to stand by him given all us doubters. Nice player.Other observations today.Jasper Brinkley played like garbage. Just an awful performance. Terrible instincts.Nice win for Woodson, but he looked stiff, and he doesn't run as well as McNabb did at Syracuse, not even close. I think I downgrade all QBs but Ryan for now. I'd still rank Woodson QB1, but he needs to fall out of this top 10.Glenn Dorsey may appear #1 overall in my next rankings.But Laurinaitiis continues to play LB better than anyone else plays any position in the country. He is amazing. Felix Jones has jumped back ahead of Ray Rice in my RB rankings. I can see the two Arkansas RBs being the best two RBs in this class. Darius Reynaud is going to be a nice NFL receiver. Now HE is in the same mold as SMoss and Smith.
 
Morning observation (I'm still watching college football and I stayed up til 4am doing so)...

Dennis Dixon is playing QB better than anyone in the country. I have no idea what to think of this or how to rank him. I'm still adjusting to him being in QBBC with Ryan Leaf's brother. I am very very impressed though. Man, just very impressed. I think... wow, what he did to Michigan he is doing to everyone... just destroying secondaries.

I think this is the best QB out there... right now. There I said it. This feels like my love for Cutler a couple years ago before he was barely in any top tens.

Dixon is a spectacular athlete, could play pro baseball. Physically he is reminiscent of Aaron Brooks, but he has much better speed and overall athleticism. I can see him being loved and hated because he's another black QB who can run and throw or whatever, but he really is doing it with his arm, poise, and reads; and his accuracy is just unreal so far this year. The game is coming to him very easily. Someone will say he'll be a wide receiver in the NFL.

Just from how they are currently playing I think the QBs should be ranked like this.

Dixon

Ryan

Woodson

Brohm

:football:

 

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