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Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Johnny Bing
Footballguy
I agree. I'm not a lawyer, but for me on the jury hearing her testimony would be a good explanation of how the murder weapon was disposed of. Even though you don't have the gun you can make a strong conclusion what happened to it.
Not to mention, she doesn't remember what dumpster, a general idea, but instead just a residential garbage. No other details. Really?
Does she really think the jury is going to buy the, "I didn't know what was in the box and I have no idea where I dumped it."
KCitons
Footballguy
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
How many of that exact suit/shirt/tie combos does Kraft own? I think we should ask him the question about wearing the same thing everyday but I think we know his answer.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
The prosecution might not want to call him, because he could be perceived as a hostile witness just by being himself (see the recent interview and Q & A montage from the owners' meetings - "dunno, that's free agency, dunno, you'll have to ask that team, dunno, that's free agency, etc.").
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MaxThreshold
Footballguy
"Thank-you for your testimony, Mr.Belichick. One more thing before you go - and remember you're still under oath..."
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Prosecution is supposed to rest this week and the defense only has one witness. I don't see how he isn't found guilty, he's gotta be done...
His defense has sucked for the amount he is spending, in their defense though they have been given a basically impossible task.
His defense has sucked for the amount he is spending, in their defense though they have been given a basically impossible task.
Prosecutor: Bill did you order the decision to draft Hernandez knowing that there were "character concerns"?
Judge: You *don't* have to answer that question!
Bill Belichick: I'll answer the question!
[to the prosecutor]
Bill Belichick: You want answers?
Prosecutor: I think I'm entitled to.
Bill Belichick: *You want answers?*
Prosecutor: *I want the truth!*
Bill Belichick: *You can't handle the truth!*
[pauses]
Bill Belichick: Son, we live in an NFL that has aggressive defenses and those defenses need to be exploited with schemes that create mismatches using versatile hybrid players. Who's gonna do it? You? Some other weak state prosecutor? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for those late round corners, and you curse the Patriots. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That using exotic formations and underinflated balls, while questioned by the league, probably led to scoring and more fans in the seats. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, leads to exciting games. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me abusing those defenses, you need me terrifying those defensive coordinators. We use words like "line up outside the tackle box", "up tempo offense" and "loopholes in the rule book". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent chasing the Lombardi trophy. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the exciting brand of football that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a playbook, and attempt to coach. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
Prosecutor: Did you order the decision to draft Hernandez?
Bill Belichick: I did the job I...
Prosecutor: *Did you order the decision to draft Hernandez?*
Bill Belichick: *You're ####### right I did!*
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JetMaxx
Footballguy
Classic.
What were you expecting from the defense team?
Seems to me they've been pretty effective at discrediting prosecution witnesses and undermining key pieces of testimony.
Like you alluded to, the facts are stacked against them.
When they close by summarizing all the flubs they exposed in the investigation, and remind the jury there is no motive, no murder weapon, and no witnesses, I think the verdict will be much more in doubt than you're suggesting.
KCitons
Footballguy
Pair that with the fact that he's a famous athlete and would have everything to lose by committing a murder (and doing such a poor job at hiding evidence) I would wonder why he wouldn't just pay someone to kill Lloyd while he was on out of town.davearm said:
I've never been on a jury, but I wonder how many in this case know that AH is going to be facing two other murder charges from a separate incident. They may decide to kick the can down the rode and let that jury make the tough call.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
I would figure Hernandez did it himself to keep his street cred.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Minimal defense witnesses does not imply ineffective defense. There have been high profile cases where the defense doesn't call a single witness.
Basically it's their way of saying the prosecution doesn't have enough.
Not sure if it'll work for Hernandez but under the circumstances it probably was the best strategy.
-QG
Basically it's their way of saying the prosecution doesn't have enough.
Not sure if it'll work for Hernandez but under the circumstances it probably was the best strategy.
-QG
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Ahhh, the old, "He couldn't possibly be that stupid, could he?" defense.
Note to self. Yes. Yes he could. Absolutely he could, and imo, without a shadow of a doubt, WAS that stupid.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
when does the defense side begin? i would like to see that.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Scuttlebutt is the defense will only call one witness, who is said to be a gun expert to refute the video of AH carrying a weapon. That's it.when does the defense side begin? i would like to see that.
Testimony is supposed to be done Monday or Tuesday with final arguments to follow soon thereafter. The whole trial could be done within a week.
KCitons
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
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Dezbelief
Footballguy
Hernandez's actions make no sense to me, why off Lloyd at all?If I was on the jury I'm not punting unless there's reasonable doubt.
I'm sure everyone on the jury knows there's another trial coming soon for Hernandez.
Rimez
Footballguy
considering he shot his other buddy in the face over a $200 bar tab i doubt it took much out of lloyd to set AH off. this is the 4th shooting he has been connected to as the actual gunman since his days at florida, it was bound to catch up to him sooner or later. he got away with the one in florida, his buddy wouldnt press charges in the other, and he may walk on this one, but there is no way he escapes the boston shooting with their new video evidence.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
I've held all along that Lloyd knew about the previous killings and ran his mouth at the club about it. AH's reckless actions display someone who's against the wall, knows it's about to hit the fan, and does something reckless to attempt to eliminate the threat. Desperation leads to stupidity in every facet of life.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Whizzinator works when no one is staring at your junk. In both the NCAA and NFL the testing agency has representatives that will walk to the urinal with the athletes. Athletes are required to pull down their pants below their ankles and the test rep watches the urine flow straight out of your junk.
It is clear Hernandez was beating drug tests with pot in his system. How is the question...
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
I suspect that a large percentage of athletes are able to pass these tests. Im sure there is some new substance that allows them to beat it. Once that is figured out there will be another. Its to the point where you really have to mess up to get caught.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Two painful methods can work flawlessly if you have a 1-2 hour heads up on the test:
- Empty bladder, insert catheter and reverse flow of synthetic urine into bladder
- Empty bladder, inject synthetic urine via needle into bladder (can cause infection)
GregR
Footballguy
Or just stop using far enough in advance it won't be picked up. I don't know if it has changed with the new policy, but previously players were only tested once a year, and they knew it would be somewhere between April and August. If they failed they get additional tests, but if not they could use all they want until the following year's test.
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Touchdown There
Footballguy
They are randomly tested from a pool 4-5 times per in season.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
From Faust's article linked above.Faust said:
"... a joint found near Lloyd's body that had DNA from both men on it."
I haven't been following the case that closely, possibly because it seems to me so open and shut (I may be wrong, thought the same thing about OJ - who by the way, claimed he didn't have Bruno Magli shoes, it was never proven during the trial, later photos surfaced of him wearing, you guessed it, Bruno Magli shoes, that fact was related by Vincent "Helter Skelter" Bulgliosi, former Los Angeles DA who successfully prosecuted the Manson Family in maybe the most notorious trial of the 20th century).
Anyways, the above sounds very damaging. Anarchy has mentioned a few times, a Mass. law (?) in which AH would not have to be proven the actual trigger man, to be successfully convicted of conspiracy, if he was with the murderers at the time.
PFT
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/03/hernandez-defense-wont-last-long/
"Appearing on Friday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, Dan Wetzel of Yahoo! Sports said that the most damning piece of evidence to date came via surveillance video of Hernandez carrying in his house following the murder what appears to be a gun. An expert witness has testified that it was a Glock semi-automatic pistol, the murder weapon that has still not been recovered — and that may have been in the box that Hernandez’s fiancée disposed of at Hernandez’s direction."
To me, it would be fitting justice if Hernandez ended up convicting himself (IF he is responsible for the alleged murder) through his own stupidity, allowing an image of him carrying a gun minutes after the murder of a person he had picked up that very night, a few blocks from his house, BY HIS OWN SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Michael McCann, the law professor from UNH that has been covering the trial for Sports Illustrated, thinks the jury is more likely to find him guilty of manslaughter or find him not guilty than convict him on Murder 1 or Murder 2.
He thinks the prosecution will have problems in not providing a motive, they never gave a blow by blow explanation as to what actually happened, there is no murder weapon, and there are no witnesses. Finding him guilty of intentional manslaughter would be a compromise. I think he said that would carry a ten year sentence. He also felt the gun charges would stick, so he could get 10-15 years if they went with manslaughter.
He thinks the prosecution will have problems in not providing a motive, they never gave a blow by blow explanation as to what actually happened, there is no murder weapon, and there are no witnesses. Finding him guilty of intentional manslaughter would be a compromise. I think he said that would carry a ten year sentence. He also felt the gun charges would stick, so he could get 10-15 years if they went with manslaughter.
As conclusion nears, what we've learned from Aaron Hernandez trial:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/04/03/aaron-hernandez-trial-analysis-conclusion-nears
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/04/03/aaron-hernandez-trial-analysis-conclusion-nears
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
The Cheech and Chong, "blunt master" theory is ridiculous. As if Lloyd was the only person on the East Coast who could supply weed and roll a joint. So dumb.
"In his opening statement on January 29, 2015, Hernandez attorney Michael Fee introduced a much-discussed idea: Lloyd was Hernandez’s “blunt master” and thus Hernandez, who smoked substantial amounts of marijuana every day, would never want to see Lloyd hurt. Lloyd, jurors were told, had developed his own technique in rolling blunts, and Hernandez embraced Lloyd’s blunts. Along these lines, jurors saw a text message sent by Hernandez to Jenkins in which Hernandez wrote, “O took care of me” after a night of partying in the flop house—a night that preceded Lloyd’s murder by just 48 hours. Prosecutors tried to downplay the “blunt master” defense by noting that Hernandez’s barber, Robby Olivares, and Bradley also supplied Hernandez with marijuana, thus suggesting that the bond between Hernandez and Lloyd was far from essential."
And the Judge has already directed the jury to disregard the "expert's" testimony in all particulars other than the gun holding strap similarity and will reiterate her direction to disregard that testimony in her instructions to the jury. You never know if highlighting damaging testimony that lacks probative force will help or hurt, but the point is the judge will emphasize to the jury that the supposed expert's opinion is to be viewed skeptically.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
The SI article linked above by Faust (written by McCann) stated voluntary or involuntary manslaughter could receive a sentence of UP TO 20 years, and the gun charges 5-10 (would get credit for time served, 21 months so far). So that is quite a range, anywhere from 5 (innocent of all murder and manslaughter charges, low end of the gun charge sentencing range, so leaving maybe only three more years with time served) to 30 years if one of the manslaughter charges sticks, plus the high end range of the gun sentencing charges - and anywhere in between, depending on the sentencing ranges used for either or both convictions, if applicable. First or second degree murder, which the article makes sound less likely, would carry life with no possibility of parole in the former case, and after 15 years in the latter (plus gun charges time).
Of course a hung jury mistrial is another possibility, where the prosecution would have to decide to re-try the case, as well as an innocent verdict.
One thing that came up was because the double murder trial is not in the books already, it made them unable to introduce evidence that might suggest Lloyd's murder was to silence him as a potential witness with knowledge of those earlier homicides. In that sense, maybe the preferred sequence of the trials would have been inverted, than they could have used that potentially powerful and incriminating motive-related material in the Lloyd trial, with a successful earlier conviction. Don't know if the Lloyd murder and separate, earlier double murders were in the same or different jurisdictions, or if any thought was given to sequnce along these lines. Maybe they thought the evidence was best in this case, and proceeded accordingly?
Even if he is given an innocent verdict, I take it he would remain in jail, for the pending double murder trial (flight risk)? I don't know how strong or compelling the evidence is in that case. Somebody mentioned above, I think, new (?) video capturing the vehicle around the time of the shooting and double murders. Don't know about the specifics, though (license plate capture, facial images, proximity and timeline)?
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
The prosecution has done a real ####ty job. No reason not to convict him of murder, they had more than enough evidence.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
An extensive, detailed timeline on AH and the Lloyd murder, if anybody wants to review the evidence (some material was excluded from the trial, for reasons of hearsay, etc.).
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/aaron-hernandez-murder-case-timeline-051414
Looyd was murdered early 6-17. On 6-18 at 1:24 PM the girl friend was seen driving away with the mystery box, the police came with the search warrant at 7:01 PM. They may have missed having the murder weapon as evidence by less than 6 hours.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/aaron-hernandez-murder-case-timeline-051414
Looyd was murdered early 6-17. On 6-18 at 1:24 PM the girl friend was seen driving away with the mystery box, the police came with the search warrant at 7:01 PM. They may have missed having the murder weapon as evidence by less than 6 hours.
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Rimez
Footballguy
NFL players get tested once a year around training camp, pass and they can smoke the rest of the year without worry. failing the test puts them in stage 1 where they get tested randomly for 90 days, pass and they can go back to smoking all they want, fail a test during stage 1 and they are ####ed putting them in stage 2 where almost every piss they take will be tested and probably fail since it takes weeks for weed to leave their system, this is where careers end since the fails start to rack up even if they havent smoked. the NFL doesnt really care if the players are smoking weed, the system is there to flag the addicts and idiots since they know months in advance when to quit and stay clean for a few weeks. thats why people like josh gordon and fred davis and that combine kid are so concerning, they know they are going to be tested yet still screw up out of ego/ignorance/addiction.
its like most jobs, they piss you once to make sure youre not a complete idiot that would fail a drug test at your job interview then never test you again.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
so are closing arguments today?
RUSF18
Footballguy
Yeah, and from reading quotes on Twitter, Hernandez's lawyer's case to the jury is basically "why haven't you heard about a motive all this time?" (we know one potential one that can't be introduced) and that Hernandez and Lloyd really liked smoking weed together.PinkydaPimp said:
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