What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Hillary takes responsibility for loss. Blames Russia, FBI, misogyny, media, and unprecedented interference. (1 Viewer)

squistion said:
Voter suppression had a lot to do with it:

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gops-attack-on-voting-rights-was-the-most-under-covered-story-of-2016/

The GOP’s Attack on Voting Rights Was the Most Under-Covered Story of 2016

[...]

We’ll likely never know how many people were kept from the polls by restrictions like voter-ID laws, cuts to early voting, and barriers to voter registration. But at the very least this should have been a question that many more people were looking into. For example, 27,000 votes currently separate Trump and Clinton in Wisconsin, where 300,000 registered voters, according to a federal court, lacked strict forms of voter ID. Voter turnout in Wisconsin was at its lowest levels in 20 years and decreased 13 percent in Milwaukee, where 70 percent of the state’s African-American population lives, according to Daniel Nichanian of the University of Chicago.

I documented stories of voters in Wisconsin—including a 99-year-old man—who made two trips to the polls and one to the DMV on Election Day just to be able to vote, while others decided not to vote at all because they were denied IDs. When Margie Mueller, an 85-year-old woman from Plymouth, Wisconsin, wasn’t allowed to vote with her expired driver’s license, her husband, Alvin, decided not to vote either. They were both Democrats. “The damn Republicans,” he said, “don’t want Latinos and old people to vote.”  

Andrew Voegele, a schoolteacher, recently moved from Minnesota to Wisconsin and was forced to cast a provisional ballot yesterday that will not be counted unless he surrenders his Minnesota license and spends $34 for a Wisconsin driver’s license by Friday. The ACLU filed a court order last night to have his vote count. Over 200 people in Wisconsin petitioned the DMV on Election Day to get a voter ID.

How many people were turned away from the polls? How many others didn’t bother to show up in the first place? These are questions we need to take far more seriously. In 2014, a study by Rice University and the University of Houston of Texas’s 23rd Congressional District found that 12.8 percent of registered voters who didn’t vote in the election cited lack of required photo ID as a reason they didn’t cast a ballot, even though only 2.7 percent of registered voters actually lacked an acceptable ID. Texas’s strict voter-ID law blocked some voters from the polls while having an ever larger deterrent effect on others. Eighty percent of these voters were Latino and strongly preferred Democratic candidates.   [...]
Click to expand...
Get an ID if you want to vote.  This is bull ####

 
tommyGunZ said:
The only people stating nonsense like this are conservatives.  
Click to expand...
If you read back through the thread, I think you'll find this a reasonably accurate (with a touch of hyperbole, of course) description of your own position.  You were able to bring yourself to acknowledge that Hillary would probably do a few things differently if she had it all to do over again, but 99% of your posts have consisted of passive-aggressive attempts to deflect blame elsewhere.

Edit: I mean, you literally defended her decision not to campaign in Wisconsin.  Sweet God. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Politician Spock said:
WTF? If she CARED about winning Wisconsin, she would have campaigned in Wisconsin. She thought Wisconsin was in the bag, so she didn't care. Just because her campaign felt the same doesn't mean she isn't careless. It means they're both careless. She's a careless person who hired a careless campaign staff. Birds of a feather. 
Click to expand...
This.

You can say the same about Michigan.  And I don't recall Hillary spending much time in Pennsylvania either, except in Philly....where she DID have it the bag.

I remember Hillary taking a lot of days off of the campaign trail.  You can hate Trump all you want....I don't really like him either.... but the guy campaigned his a$$ off and looked liked the one that really wanted the presidency.  Hillary campaigned like she had it in the bag and thought she was entitled to the presidency.

 
jon_mx said:
This voter suppression argument/excuse seems like a good one.  But in the case of Wisconsin the law was passed in 2011 and it was made really simple to get an ID.  If this law really was the cause of voter suppression, why did it not impact Obama in 2012? 
Click to expand...
Because your understanding of the timeline of the Wisconsin voter ID law is incorrect.  There were multiple court cases in 2016 over it.  Wisconsin didn't follow through on its promise to provide free voter IDs to those without other forms of identification, improperly disenfranchising about 300,000 people in an election decided by less than one-tenth that.      

 
IvanKaramazov said:
If you read back through the thread, I think you'll find this a reasonably accurate (with a touch of hyperbole, of course) description of your own position.  You were able to bring yourself to acknowledge that Hillary would probably do a few things differently if she had it all to do over again, but 99% of your posts have consisted of passive-aggressive attempts to deflect blame elsewhere.

Edit: I mean, you literally defended her decision not to campaign in Wisconsin.  Sweet God. 
Click to expand...
I pointed out why she didn't campaign in Wisconsin, and suggested that in retrospect it was a mistake.

This is like the NBA thread, where when the Cavs lose to the Warriors in the Finals this year there will be idiots saying "LeBron sucks - he blew it".  No, LeBron doesn't suck, he simply didn't win a playoff series. Likewise, Hillary isn't a "lousy" politician because she got more votes than any female politician in US History but barely lost the electoral college.

No one is suggesting she's perfect.  I'm one of her bigger supporters on this board and I didn't support her efforts for the same position in 2008.  But this idea that she's incompetent and lousy is just ignorant talk.  Standard stuff from some of the mouth breathers, but some of you are better than this. 

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Because your understanding of the timeline of the Wisconsin voter ID law is incorrect.  There were multiple court cases in 2016 over it.  Wisconsin didn't follow through on its promise to provide free voter IDs to those without other forms of identification, improperly disenfranchising about 300,000 people in an election decided by less than one-tenth that.      
Click to expand...
There is no basis for the 300,000  number, which by all accounts is complete fake news.  And my timeline and understanding is just fine.  There were lots of court cases decided in 2011 and 1016 and none of them significantly impacted the law. If anything, it was easier to get a temporary ID to vote in 2016 than it was in 2012.  The basis for the argument is false.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
In retrospect, obviously Hillary and her campaign would make some changes.  The campaign wasn't "incompetent".  That's silly.  
Click to expand...
"Incompetent" is putting it mildly. The only person she could beat was a geriatric socialist who wasn't even a Democrat. There was a great deal of arrogance - and it's still shining through today.

 
tommyGunZ said:
I pointed out why she didn't campaign in Wisconsin, and suggested that in retrospect it was a mistake.
Click to expand...
It was careless. Having a reason why she didn't care about Wisconsin doesn't change that. Careless is careless with or without reason. So is incompetence. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Politician Spock said:
It was careless. Having a reason why she didn't care about Wisconsin doesn't change that. Careless is careless without or without reason. So is incompetence. 
Click to expand...
How do you know this?  How do you know that there weren't lots of discussions about where to deploy resources, and Hillary and her staff were persuaded to spend elsewhere? 

You don't know.  Careless would be that she said "#### it, I KNOW I've got WI" even though data and her advisors were suggesting otherwise.  You're just saying it's careless because the decision turned out to be wrong. 

 
tommyGunZ said:
How do you know this?  How do you know that there weren't lots of discussions about where to deploy resources, and Hillary and her staff were persuaded to spend elsewhere? 

You don't know.  Careless would be that she said "#### it, I KNOW I've got WI" even though data and her advisors were suggesting otherwise.  You're just saying it's careless because the decision turned out to be wrong. 
Click to expand...
She's careless. "It" was just another example of it. A win every now and then doesn't change that about her. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
tommyGunZ said:
Hillary campaigned in several swing states that she eventually lost.  Those ridiculing her for not visiting seem to be suggesting that had she visited Wisconsin she would have won.  I dont think thats clear.
Click to expand...
Holy crap we agree! Even if she campaigned in WI she very well could have still lost it. But still, not going was pretty Fn incompetent

 
tommyGunZ said:
How do you know this?  How do you know that there weren't lots of discussions about where to deploy resources, and Hillary and her staff were persuaded to spend elsewhere?
Click to expand...
You're bending over backwards to come up with hypotheticals to support your thesis that Hillary can do no wrong.

 
tommyGunZ said:
I pointed out why she didn't campaign in Wisconsin, and suggested that in retrospect it was a mistake.

This is like the NBA thread, where when the Cavs lose to the Warriors in the Finals this year there will be idiots saying "LeBron sucks - he blew it".  No, LeBron doesn't suck, he simply didn't win a playoff series. Likewise, Hillary isn't a "lousy" politician because she got more votes than any female politician in US History but barely lost the electoral college.

No one is suggesting she's perfect.  I'm one of her bigger supporters on this board and I didn't support her efforts for the same position in 2008.  But this idea that she's incompetent and lousy is just ignorant talk.  Standard stuff from some of the mouth breathers, but some of you are better than this. 
Click to expand...
She sucks.  A lot.  

 
squistion said:
He was right, they didn't let his wife vote, probably figured the outcome was already predetermined.
Click to expand...
Yeah, lets not inforce immigration laws, than complain about not following voting rules, and who is trying to pre-determine what?

 
Sabertooth said:
Are you saying that people listening to this for 6-12 hours per day has no effect?   I highly doubt that.  You could listen to any message for that long and it sinks in.  

Take my wife for example.  She hated country music.  Where she works she can only get one channel of radio in clearly.  We live in a remote area.  And she works inside a metal building.  Anyway, always hated country.  Until she had nothing else to listen to for about 5 years.  Now...voila..country music fan.  

To say it doesn't brainwash is foolish.  We are all brainwashed to some extent or another.  I don't listen to this stuff.  I prefer music or podcasts.  But you can pick out which of my friends do very quickly while sitting around a campfire.  And it's funny.  You ask them a question one week and they don't know how to answer.  Like the Garland thing right away last year.  Then a couple weeks later they have a fully formed opinion.  Amazing.  
Click to expand...
The people that listen to Rush were never voting for her anyway. And hardly any of those talk radio dorks endorsed Trump either. 

Hillary should take most of the blame and move on. She somehow managed to make a self-absorbed, egotistical billionaire (who literally lives in a golden tower on 5th avenue) seem to be more in touch with the regular folks on main street.

 
jon_mx said:
There is no basis for the 300,000  number, which by all accounts is complete fake news.  And my timeline and understanding is just fine.  There were lots of court cases decided in 2011 and 1016 and none of them significantly impacted the law. If anything, it was easier to get a temporary ID to vote in 2016 than it was in 2012.  The basis for the argument is false.  
Click to expand...
It's a complicated legal morass, but the fact is Wisconsin voters did not have to show an ID in the 2012 general election. They did in the 2016 election. The ID portion of the law was in effect for the 2012 primaries, then put on hold until becoming effective in 2016. There were some additional restrictions on absentee ballots, early voting, polling hours and the like in a 2015 law, but I think most of that was struck down and not in effect for the 2016 presidential election. I've no idea about the 300,000 estimate but there was a pretty significant difference in the voting process in Wisconsin in 2012 v 2016. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
It's a complicated legal morass, but the fact is Wisconsin voters did not have to show an ID in the 2012 general election. They did in the 2016 election. The ID portion of the law was in effect for the 2012 primaries, then put on hold until becoming effective in 2016. There were some additional restrictions on absentee ballots, early voting, polling hours and the like in a 2015 law, but I think most of that was struck down and not in effect for the 2016 presidential election. I've no idea about the 300,000 estimate but there was a pretty significant difference in the voting process in Wisconsin in 2012 v 2016. 
Click to expand...
Pearls, swine, etc.

 
TwinTurbo said:
The people that listen to Rush were never voting for her anyway. And hardly any of those talk radio dorks endorsed Trump either. 

Hillary should take most of the blame and move on. She somehow managed to make a self-absorbed, egotistical billionaire (who literally lives in a golden tower on 5th avenue) seem to be more in touch with the regular folks on main street.
Click to expand...
Yeah like I said I don't listen.  Hillary isn't about to take the blame.  In her mind she should have won.  

 
Willie Neslon said:
She's launching a political group as soon as next week. I beg her not to run in 2020. Please don't Hillary. Just go away. Please. For the good of the country.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't think this is a concern. There's not gonna be any appetite to run her again on the left.  I say that as someone who supported her and thought 90% of the crap about her was nonsense and who was in her corner for most of the primary race until I was eventually won over by Sanders. I think if she actually explores a run she'll get negative feedback, and if she runs anyway Dems won't vote for her.  I personally wouldn't even consider it. Not because I think she's a bad person or would be a bad president, but because I think Donald Trump may be the worst thing to happen to this country in my lifetime and I want to do everything I can to get him out of office. Nominating the person he beat last time is obviously not that. I think a lot of Dem primary voters would feel the same way.

 
Willie Neslon said:
She's launching a political group as soon as next week. I beg her not to run in 2020. Please don't Hillary. Just go away. Please. For the good of the country.
Click to expand...
From the article:

"Clinton has been working with her campaign’s finance director who was previously the Clinton Foundation’s chief development officer, to bring donors into the fold."

Pretty much says it all.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MarvinTScamper
Hillary Clinton blames Comey, WikiLeaks and 'misogyny' for 2016 loss
2 3 4
Replies
151
Views
4K
Juxtatarot
Juxtatarot
cstu
Donald Trump Needs $10M to Debate Bernie - Where Do I Donate?
Replies
33
Views
1K
EYLive
EYLive
cstu
How Donald Trump Exploited the Media's Greed to Win the Nomination
Replies
17
Views
976
The General
The General

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top