How important is Larry Fitzgerald to AZ? (1 Viewer)

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Larry Fitzgerald is at the beginning of the prime of his career, and is arguably the most talented WR in the league. On any other team, he might be a very important cog to the teams success. He's the face of the franchise, one of the top 15 most popular players in the league (#15 overall in jersey sales 2010), does work in the community (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/01/cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-pro-bowl-nfl-cba/1 , http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2010/12/24/20101224arizona-cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-making-difference-cancer-center.html), is going into the final year of his contract, and will decide to stay with the Cardinals, or test the free agent market based on the performance and direction of the team (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2010/10/05/20101005arizona-cardinals-quarterback-larry-fitzgerald.html).

However on this team he's absolutely the only thing this franchise has going for it. Beanie Wells is a disaster. Ken Whisenhunt is far from charismatic. The QB postion is a revolving door of players who shouldn't even be in the league.

The defense can't stop a UFL team.

And what he's saying is that he will or will not return to the team based "not only how much money the team is willing to throw at him, but who is throwing balls to him.

With Fitzgerald, this franchise has a chance. It's a small market team, in a desert. Without Fitz, not only does this team have little chance to win more than 3-4 games, I dare say it may fall into obscurity altogether. How many games are they going to win, having one of these hack QBs throwing to Steve Breaston and Early Doucet, and Beanie Wells' 3.2 YPC? Not many.

 

[Donsmith753]

About as important as Calvin was to the Lions before they drafted Stafford?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

He's a great receiver but whether they win 3 games or not with or without him, he'll have very little impact. We value WR's way too much in the outcome of games.

One would think of Calvin Johnson for the Lions was hurt (as well as their starting QB) that they'd have little chance to win right, he's basically their entire offense (so we think). But in Miami after he was injured in the 2nd half and trailing, the Lions mounted a comeback and won in Miami. The Lions played Minnesota the last game of the season and Johnson barely stepped onto the field and the Lions won again.

Don't get me wrong, Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson are very good players but they're not deal breakers in terms of winning or losing games. If your team can't block and can't tackle, then you have way bigger problems than if you have a star WR. It's sexy to have the big name WR and in certain situations it's awesome to have a stud but IMO, there are plenty of talented journeymen you can get at the WR position to get the job done.

Give me guys that can block and tackle, a solid QB and I'll fill in the gap with WR's and RB's that are journeymen type, guys like Deion Branch, Nate Burelson and young talent at those positions and you'll still have a playoff team competing for a SB.

Arizona doesn't have a lot of what I just mentioned but that doesn't mean they should hold onto Fitzgerald because of it. I'd get everything I could for him at the right time and then revamp.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

About as important as Calvin was to the Lions before they drafted Stafford?

The Lion's were terrible, obscure, and non threatening at that point if I remember correctly. I think they won less than a handful of games in those couple years. I think Calvin made the Pro Bowl as an alternate, in their winless year.But as of now, Fitz already has multiple Pro Bowl appearances, and can be recognized on the national stage. He also has a super bowl appearance. So in my mind, he has more establishment and influence than Calvin Johnson did, because Johnson was a high potential 2nd year player when Stafford was drafted.Johnson has never mentioned anything about whether or not he's signing his next contract based on "direction of the franchise" or "team performance."So a little yes, and a little more no.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

whether they win 3 games or not with or without him, he'll have very little impact.

He's the entire offense. No one else on this offense is worth a ### ####.

Not only this: the major difference between the Cards 2010 and the Cards 2009?

Quarterback.

Which is how this argument started in the first place. If the QB situation doesn't improve, this team goes nowhere, even with Fitz, yes. But even more so, if the QB situation doesn't improve, Fitz is outta town. Then what does AZ have left for a football team?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

That the team would be screwed if their super star franchise player leaves town? I don't think so. Name one other thing this team has going for it. Today, April 8th, 2011.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

That the team would be screwed if their super star franchise player leaves town? I don't think so. Name one other thing this team has going for it. Today, April 8th, 2011.

TEAM.Arizona Cardinals.

not the Arizona Fitzgeralds.

What they have going for it is a management in place that values a team first approach and continuity.

You want one guy to disrupt that? Hell no, regardless of talent you can be shipped off for peanuts like Santonio Holmes to make/keep the agenda perfectly clear.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Firstly, how is Santonio Holmes comparable in any way to Larry Fitzgerald other than the fact they play the same position?

Secondly, with Fitz, this team was a dismal 5-11. How do you expect it to perform without him? Bear in mind, Fitzgerald is not a "cancer" type player, also keep in mind, the difference between '09 and '10 was a margin of 5 wins.

And he's not going to "disrupt" anything.

This is not TO.

He's just gonna LEAVE.

 

[KiddLattimer]

There is no doubt that Larry Fitzgerald is a top 2-3 talent at the position but I always equated having a stud WR to having a Lamborghini... its great to have one, but if you park it next to your trailer it's just foolish.

Teams like the Colts, Pats, and even the Giants can afford to spend picks on stud WRs because they have above average quarterbacks, running games, and/or defenses but bottom feeders like the Lions, Bengals, Cardinals, etc need to worry about the rest of their teams first. If your QB cant get him the ball or he's on his back the whole game because the O-Line stinks it doesnt do you a bit of good to have a flashy stud WR... except for maybe jersey sales.

As much as I would hate to see Fitz or Calvin land on a team like the Pats it would make a hell of a lot of sense for their teams to move them for a ton of picks, build up your team as a whole and make due with Jabar Gaffney types until you can afford to draft another great WR.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

As much as I would hate to see Fitz or Calvin land on a team like the Pats it would make a hell of a lot of sense for their teams to move them for a ton of picks, build up your team as a whole and make due with Jabar Gaffney types until you can afford to draft another great WR.

Agree 100%, but they are screwed. He cannot be traded w/o a CBA resolution and the draft is right around the corner. In-season trades are very rare, but it has a chance.

 

[travdogg]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

That the team would be screwed if their super star franchise player leaves town? I don't think so. Name one other thing this team has going for it. Today, April 8th, 2011.

You are greatly underrating the Cards here. Darnell Dockett is one of the 10 best D-Lineman in the NFL, and Calais Campbell isn't that far off. Adrian Wilson is still a Pro-bowl caliber safety and DRC(while having a down year in 2010) is as talented as any CB in the NFL and has shown elite potential.In my opinion if the Cardinals had even a league average QB, they would have won the NFC West last year. But they had the worst QB's west of Carolina.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

That the team would be screwed if their super star franchise player leaves town? I don't think so. Name one other thing this team has going for it. Today, April 8th, 2011.

You are greatly underrating the Cards here. Darnell Dockett is one of the 10 best D-Lineman in the NFL, and Calais Campbell isn't that far off. Adrian Wilson is still a Pro-bowl caliber safety and DRC(while having a down year in 2010) is as talented as any CB in the NFL and has shown elite potential.In my opinion if the Cardinals had even a league average QB, they would have won the NFC West last year. But they had the worst QB's west of Carolina.

I may be underrating the cards defense. The offense still can't score on a Pop warner team.I just don't think, even with the pieces you described, they have the kind of defense that's good enough to keep them in games, or imposing enough for a playoff run, not with the way the team is now.Fitz still remains the premier player on this team.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

That the team would be screwed if their super star franchise player leaves town? I don't think so. Name one other thing this team has going for it. Today, April 8th, 2011.

TEAM.Arizona Cardinals.

What they have going for it is a management in place that values a team first approach and continuity.

So on NFL Sunday Countdown, Chris Berman is gonna tell you that the reason this team has a shot to win, and the reason to get excited about this game and provide you a reason to watch is the "management in place?"Not the fact that they have the best WR in the game, who can beat any corner, any double team, and can make plays if given the slightest of opportunities?

 

[azgroover]

He is as important to the Cardinals as Randy Moss was to the Raiders. WR is probably the easiest position to reload at in the league.

That said, I've enjoyed watching Larry in AZ, but without a competent QB, he's just another guy.

 

[travdogg]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

That the team would be screwed if their super star franchise player leaves town? I don't think so. Name one other thing this team has going for it. Today, April 8th, 2011.

You are greatly underrating the Cards here. Darnell Dockett is one of the 10 best D-Lineman in the NFL, and Calais Campbell isn't that far off. Adrian Wilson is still a Pro-bowl caliber safety and DRC(while having a down year in 2010) is as talented as any CB in the NFL and has shown elite potential.In my opinion if the Cardinals had even a league average QB, they would have won the NFC West last year. But they had the worst QB's west of Carolina.

I may be underrating the cards defense. The offense still can't score on a Pop warner team.I just don't think, even with the pieces you described, they have the kind of defense that's good enough to keep them in games, or imposing enough for a playoff run, not with the way the team is now.Fitz still remains the premier player on this team.

I agree that Fitz is probably the most valubale player on the team(though Dockett is really underrated) but again, its not like Beanie Wells and Steve Breaston are bums. They just weren't as productive as they are capable of being due to some injury woes and a black hole at QB. I truly believe with a decent QB they are the best team in the NFC West right now. Also, when I say "decent QB" I don't mean a guy like Rodgers or Rivers, or even a guy like Flacco, I just mean someone who is an upgrade over Anderson, which is almost every QB in the NFL. They might already have that guy in Skelton, but they'd be wise to aim higher. Give them a guy like Kyle Orton or Donovan McNabb and this is a 9-7 to 11-5 team in my opinion, especially in the NFC West.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

He is as important to the Cardinals as Randy Moss was to the Raiders. WR is probably the easiest position to reload at in the league.That said, I've enjoyed watching Larry in AZ, but without a competent QB, he's just another guy.

Moss' level of production was never even close to fitzs in AZ, nor was his commitment to the team and community. He really didn't even try to play.

 

[Cassius]

He's amazing, but he's still just a wide receiver.

 

[Eminence]

Darnell Dockett (3 Pro-Bowls, 1 All-Pro)

Adrian Wilson (4 Pro-Bowls, 2 All-Pro)

Kerry Rhodes (1 All-Pro, 0 Pro-Bowls)

Dominique Rogers-Cromartie (1 Pro-Bowl)

Gregory Toler is a GREAT #2 corner.

Calais Campbell is underrated at defensive end.

Dan Williams will be a BEAST at DT next year.

The Cardinals defense is SOLID sans their linebackers; although Daryl Washington looked good.. Their poor-offense made their defense look dreadful last year. If the Cardinals can improve their pass-rush; they'll be a defense to be reckoned with. On paper; it's already a solid defense that is poor against the run.

-

They need a new O-line and Quarterback.

Tim Hightower went for 4.8 YPC last season; if he didn't split with Wells he'd have easily broken the 1,000 yard mark. Beanie Wells was banged up quite a bit. Breaston and Doucet are both decent wide-outs whom are capable of 1,000 yard seasons with a competent QB.

-

The original post was pretty ignorant; there's plenty of talent to be found in AZ.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Larry Fitzgerald is at the beginning of the prime of his career, and is arguably the most talented WR in the league. On any other team, he might be a very important cog to the teams success. He's the face of the franchise, one of the top 15 most popular players in the league (#15 overall in jersey sales 2010), does work in the community (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/01/cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-pro-bowl-nfl-cba/1 , http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2010/12/24/20101224arizona-cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-making-difference-cancer-center.html), is going into the final year of his contract, and will decide to stay with the Cardinals, or test the free agent market based on the performance and direction of the team (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2010/10/05/20101005arizona-cardinals-quarterback-larry-fitzgerald.html).

However on this team he's absolutely the only thing this franchise has going for it. Beanie Wells is a disaster. Ken Whisenhunt is far from charismatic. The QB postion is a revolving door of players who shouldn't even be in the league.

The defense can't stop a UFL team.

And what he's saying is that he will or will not return to the team based "not only how much money the team is willing to throw at him, but who is throwing balls to him.

With Fitzgerald, this franchise has a chance. It's a small market team, in a desert. Without Fitz, not only does this team have little chance to win more than 3-4 games, I dare say it may fall into obscurity altogether. How many games are they going to win, having one of these hack QBs throwing to Steve Breaston and Early Doucet, and Beanie Wells' 3.2 YPC? Not many.

All that said if Kurt Warner had played last year (and stayed relatively upright) they win 10+ games and make a run at it.

 

[massraider]

Are the Cards not allowed to get a new QB, or generally improve their team?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

If you're a really bad team, one of the least-valuable positions you could have a superstar at is wide receiver.

 

[Cassius]

Ken Whisenhunt is far from charismatic.

I know that you know what you're talking about, because if a head coach in the NFL needs one thing to be successful, it's charisma (see Belichick, Bill). Knowing you have such a firm grasp on this concept makes me take the rest of your post with heightened credibility.

 

[squistion]

Ken Whisenhunt is far from charismatic.

I know that you know what you're talking about, because if a head coach in the NFL needs one thing to be successful, it's charisma (see Belichick, Bill). Knowing you have such a firm grasp on this concept makes me take the rest of your post with heightened credibility.

I would argue that Belichick has succeeded despite his lack of charisma. As you may recall, he was pretty mediocre in his first HC gig with the Browns, so being a coaching genius is not always in itself a guarantee for winning. Plus his disciples who have gone out on their own and who are also charisma challenged (McDaniels, Mangini) haven't exactly set the world of the NFL on fire either. Generally, charisma is a component of leadership. One can do well in any field without it, but it makes things that much harder. I remember reading somewhere before the 2010 season in which a sportswriter noted that he was surprised that Brad Childress got to the HC ranks with such a complete lack of charisma. Would Childress still be the Vikes HC if had charisma? Probably not, the bottom line is the W/L record, however maybe if he was more likable he could have bought himself another year after the recent Favre fiasco (I doubt it, but who knows?).

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Ken Whisenhunt is far from charismatic.

I know that you know what you're talking about, because if a head coach in the NFL needs one thing to be successful, it's charisma (see Belichick, Bill). Knowing you have such a firm grasp on this concept makes me take the rest of your post with heightened credibility.

I know that you know that I know what I'm talking about, especially when it comes to coaches like Rex Ryan who can bring a franchise to the national forefront, motivate his players beyond the points they had been motivated before, and perhaps most importantly, lure veterans to come play for his team because of his supreme level of confidence, and no BS attitude.Yes or no, is charismatic head coach Rex Ryan something that the jets franchise has "going for it?"

:whoosh:

On a side note- BB is charismatic to his team and players. Not to the media. The emperor merely manipulates the media as he sees fit. Look at Randy moss, Tom Brady, tedy brushchi et al. When asked, and in moss' case, sometimes unprompted, BBs players profess knight like love and fealty to the enigmatic genius.

See also, charismatic: Mike Tomlin (2 SB appearances, 1 win), Pete Carroll (took a putrid Seahawks team to the playoffs to upset heavy favorite NO), Mike McCarthy(arguably most talented team in the league-1SB win), Sean Payton (basement to SB Saints run- offensive guru), Jeff Fisher (beloved by players and fans, longest tenured coach in league until last season will be #1 hire choice of many franchises)....

The concept of having a charismatic HC has proven to be a big positive for many franchises, examples that come to mind cited above. Although not necessary by definition, these are all very successful recent examples of the point I made. Slamming my OP without carefully considering many of these situations unfortunately makes me approach your counter posts with lessened creditability. (In fact, given your tone, I think you just tried to make me look silly, which I'm not sure you've accomplished now.)

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Generally, charisma is a component of leadership.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Are the Cards not allowed to get a new QB, or generally improve their team?

That's fine, but I'm saying today, right now, he's what Az has got, and not much else.

 

[G-King]

You oversold your stance on this one CEF.

That the team would be screwed if their super star franchise player leaves town? I don't think so. Name one other thing this team has going for it. Today, April 8th, 2011.

You are greatly underrating the Cards here. Darnell Dockett is one of the 10 best D-Lineman in the NFL, and Calais Campbell isn't that far off. Adrian Wilson is still a Pro-bowl caliber safety and DRC(while having a down year in 2010) is as talented as any CB in the NFL and has shown elite potential.In my opinion if the Cardinals had even a league average QB, they would have won the NFC West last year. But they had the worst QB's west of Carolina.

I may be underrating the cards defense. The offense still can't score on a Pop warner team.I just don't think, even with the pieces you described, they have the kind of defense that's good enough to keep them in games, or imposing enough for a playoff run, not with the way the team is now.Fitz still remains the premier player on this team.

I agree that Fitz is probably the most valubale player on the team(though Dockett is really underrated) but again, its not like Beanie Wells and Steve Breaston are bums. They just weren't as productive as they are capable of being due to some injury woes and a black hole at QB. I truly believe with a decent QB they are the best team in the NFC West right now. Also, when I say "decent QB" I don't mean a guy like Rodgers or Rivers, or even a guy like Flacco, I just mean someone who is an upgrade over Anderson, which is almost every QB in the NFL. They might already have that guy in Skelton, but they'd be wise to aim higher. Give them a guy like Kyle Orton or Donovan McNabb and this is a 9-7 to 11-5 team in my opinion, especially in the NFC West.

When the CBA gets worked out, I still say look for years of "Kolb to Fitz" replays on Sportscenter.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Rather than wading into the actual debate here, I'll just say that Fitz is an awesome guy. He just had Twitter followers post their phone numbers and called a bunch of them up.

 

[Inspiration]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/125104

Fitz