Assuming the Patriots are now without Brady for the year, how many fewer games to they win than if Brady had been there all season?
J
J
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How Many Fewer Games Does NE Win Now (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
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I watched the whole game. New England did not look impressive after losing Brady. Part of that was probably just the shock of losing him. Part of that is
probably due to Cassel not get the full week of practice. Going forward I would expect them to look better offensively than they did yesterday, but it will still
be a big step down.
Defensively, they looked okay. Kansas City certainly doesn't have a dynamic offense and yet they still had a chance to tie the game in the final minute.
Against a better offense, New England would have lost that game.
The weak schedule that they play will certainly help.
Based on that, I voted 5 fewer wins if Brady is out for the season.
probably due to Cassel not get the full week of practice. Going forward I would expect them to look better offensively than they did yesterday, but it will still
be a big step down.
Defensively, they looked okay. Kansas City certainly doesn't have a dynamic offense and yet they still had a chance to tie the game in the final minute.
Against a better offense, New England would have lost that game.
The weak schedule that they play will certainly help.
Based on that, I voted 5 fewer wins if Brady is out for the season.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
they play an easy schedule, but with an inexperienced QB , its only a matter of time before things fall apart..I can't see them finishing better than 8-8 or 9-7, TOPS...
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
Asking questions like this, you pretty much need a crystal ball. One thing going for the Pats is that their division rivals are rebuilding in many ways, and their schedule isn't tough. I do expect the Bills and Jets to be much improved this year, and I think the Dolphins will be hanging around in a lot of games. This division just became more interesting with the probable loss of Brady for the season.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
they'll be lucky to win 8 games. Barely beat the Chiefs at home and they'll be lucky to be a 5 win team.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I had them 14-2. I think they can still win 11 or 12 games based on their schedule and talent base. As I mentioned in another thread, their season will now ride more on how well their defense does.
thehornet
Footballguy
Dave, I love the optimism. I am also a Pats fan, but c'mon, bro! Yes, they have plenty of talent and a very knoweldgeable and poised caoching staff, but we are essentially talking about a rookie QB. He is gonig to have ups and downs, and they won't always be playing the Chiefs.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Here's their remaining schedule. You don't think they can win 10 more games?at NY JetsMiamiat San Franciscoat San DiegoDenver St. Louis at Indianapolis Buffalo NY Jets at Miami Pittsburgh at Seattle at Oakland Arizona at Buffalo IMO, they still beat MIA x 2, SF, STL, OAK, ARI. Probably split with BUF and NYJ (but could easily win two against either).That leaves 1-2 more wins needed against SD, DEN, IND, PIT, or SEA.I certainly don't think it would be as difficult as some others are making it out to be.
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munchkin
Footballguy
If this is as good a team as it's supposed to be and with the weak schedule they have they should still win 10 games and make the playoffs. It is going to take a little bit of time for the offense to gel with Cassel and for the defense to pull together with it's young/new players. An improved Bears and Carolina defenses showed what teams with fewer skilled players that what the Pats have can do if their defenses play well and they limit turnovers.If the sky falls on this team then they have no-one else to blame but themselves and that includes the coaching staff. A lot of their success is going to weigh on the play of Moss. If the dude steps up and plays hard he can help to mitigate the loss of Brady.
timschochet
Footballguy
Two less games. I figured before they'd be around 13-3, now I think 11-5. I predict they will still win the division and Cassel will prove to be better than most people project (as an NFL QB, not necessarily as a fantasy QB) and will start the entire year. I don't see them advancing in the playoffs, however, without a healthy Brady.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Dave, you're going from arguably the best QB in the history of the game to a guy who didnt even start in college. Short of them throwing me in at QB, i cant see how the drop off could be any bigger.
COULD they win 10-11 games? i suppose. Stranger things have happened. But it would be the shock of the century in my eyes. Even moss isnt the same without a stud QB slinging it.
COULD they win 10-11 games? i suppose. Stranger things have happened. But it would be the shock of the century in my eyes. Even moss isnt the same without a stud QB slinging it.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I voted 5, but then again I also had them winning 15 games this season.
Saying it right here - they'll be fine.
Obviously, they'll miss Brady. He's one of the best players in the game. But I'm going to say 2 games less. And that's the high end. Cream puff schedule + their defense + other offensive weapons + Belichick.
J
Obviously, they'll miss Brady. He's one of the best players in the game. But I'm going to say 2 games less. And that's the high end. Cream puff schedule + their defense + other offensive weapons + Belichick.
J
Real Man of Genius
Footballguy
Agree. I voted 6 games.
thehornet
Footballguy
I think there is the potential for the above to happen. Jets can make some noise once things start to click. I see them sweeping Miami, but losing to all the upper level teams.
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That's not fair about college though. Who did he backup?Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart.Up till now, Cassel had arguably the worst "draw" of any QB in history. Sat behind Palmer, Leinart and Brady.J
So Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Nobodies came in THREE YEARS IN A ROW and won the Super Bowl within the past 10 seasons.2001: After signing a $100 million contract, Drew Bledsoe got hurt and was replaced with no name Tom Brady.2000: Trent Dilfer took over for Tony Banks and led the Ravens to the title.1999: Grocery bagger Kurt Warner stepped in when a season ending injury felled Trent Green late in the preseason.If you want to say that the rest of the Patriots team is far worse than these teams, that's up to you.
TLEF316
Footballguy
i wasn't really making the argument about his talent. I'm sure cassell has ability. I'm mainly talking about his game experience. The last time Cassell was on the field full time, he was avoiding 16 year pass rushers being coached by gym teachers. At this point, he's been holding a clip board for the better part of a decade.For the last few years, the patriot's biggest stregnth is that they ALWAYS knew their QB wouldbe prepared and poised. It allowed them do a whole lot of things that teams with lesser QB's could not get away with. No matter what else happened, they knew they had QB covered. Now, they have 6 days to get the kid up to speed to face NFL defenses. If this had happened in the superbowl, i'd say they have a shot to win 10-11 this year. But with this truncated time table, i dont think they can do it. Cassell is going to grow up very quick, as the Jets will be all over him next sunday.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Brady is worth only 2-3 wins when most of the games are against below average teams.So Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
TLEF316
Footballguy
you believe cassell(who hasnt started a game since high school as far as i can remember) is as good as these players?
Yes.Given all the other things surrounding that team from Cassel to schedule to talent to coaching. How many fewer do you think they'll win without him?JSo Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
timschochet
Footballguy
I follow USC very closely (though I am a UCLA fan). Cassel was a terrific high school QB, was highly recruited, and was in a competition with Matt Leinart to replace Carson Palmer. Leinart won that competition, but remember that Leinart became one of the greatest college quarterbacks in history.
Regarding this talk about Cassel being moved to backup tight end, that was at his own request; he wanted to get some playing time on the field. It was NOT a demotion. Cassel has all the intangibles; he's tall and athletic with a great arm. It's simply been his fortune to be behind two of the best quarterbacks ever in college and the NFL.
I think Cassel is going to surprise a whole lot of people. He's not going to be a great FF quarterback, because he will be much more of a "game manager" than Brady was. But he will be a good NFL quarterback, and lead them to a lot of wins (I predicted 11) some of them against elite teams.
Regarding this talk about Cassel being moved to backup tight end, that was at his own request; he wanted to get some playing time on the field. It was NOT a demotion. Cassel has all the intangibles; he's tall and athletic with a great arm. It's simply been his fortune to be behind two of the best quarterbacks ever in college and the NFL.
I think Cassel is going to surprise a whole lot of people. He's not going to be a great FF quarterback, because he will be much more of a "game manager" than Brady was. But he will be a good NFL quarterback, and lead them to a lot of wins (I predicted 11) some of them against elite teams.
At least 4 games, likely 5.If the Patriots win 10-11 games without Brady, I don't see how they wouldn't have won 15 with him.Yes.Given all the other things surrounding that team from Cassel to schedule to talent to coaching. How many fewer do you think they'll win without him?JSo Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Two wins is HUGE. Two wins is a 9-7 season not a 7-9 season.The wins now may be a little tighter than if Brady was playing but still should be wins.With one game already won, I believe that the Pats can go 9-6 the rest of the way to finish 10-6.So Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Really? See, I'm just not impressed with their defense. Mayo could end up being the key to that defense. If he develops well and plays really well and contributes a lot, then they'll be above average. They need his speed and youth in the linebacking corp, because I think the older guys are really going to wear down as the season goes on. He had a good day yesterday so maybe he'll be just what they need.But that secondary could be a problem against good passing teams. Luckily they have one of the best front 4 in the game so they can take some pressure off of their CBs, but it's definitely a weakness for them.
Their defense will still be in the top half of the league, but I can't see this team turning into a "grind it out on the ground and rely on the defense" team.
Kansas City has arguably one of the worst offenses in the league, plus their starting QB (even though he's nothing to write home about) was hurt during thegame.New England's defense looked okay, but Kansas City wasn't a fair test.I'm not sure that their defense is a big plus.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
That's why coaches get paid to coach. Do you really think that they are going to give Cassell the entire play book to work with? Don't you think they might try to both limit his exposure, add in some extra blocking, and otherwise try to limit his ability to turn the ball over and mess things up?I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the Pats know what they are doing, have prepped and trained thei team, and have made roster decisions based on their scouting and intelligence.Will they miss Brady. ABSOLUTELY. Will they still win 41-17? of course not. But the Patriots were winning low scoring games and eking wins FOR YEARS and people kept saying how lucky they were, how they weren't that good, etc.I expect more of the same, just like yesterday. They didn't win by much and didn't look great doing it, yet they still won. The team still has 6 other players that went to the Pro Bowl last year and many others that were Pro Bowlers in other seasons. Did these guys forget how to play because Brady got hurt?
Tom in Albany
Footballguy
Two wins is not Brady>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Casell kind of huge.Jeez people, suddenly Brady went form greatest of all time to "two wins" Brady.Two wins is HUGE. Two wins is a 9-7 season not a 7-9 season.The wins now may be a little tighter than if Brady was playing but still should be wins.With one game already won, I believe that the Pats can go 9-6 the rest of the way to finish 10-6.So Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
Osaurus
Footballguy
I was the "1" to say they would not lose any less games without Brady, but that doesn't mean I didn't think they would lose games. I just think it wouldn't impact them as much as people thought.
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
My projection only called for 11 wins to begin with.....which many thought to be crazy.....
I know think they will be 7-9 or 8-8
I know think they will be 7-9 or 8-8
TLEF316
Footballguy
dave,
Of course they'll do those things. Of course the pats know what they are doing. But you dont just go from greatest QB of all time (arguably) to a life time back up and just keep rolling along. The kid hasnt played since HIGH SCHOOL.
The mental aspect alone just has to be devestating. And I'm not buying the defense as an elite unit quite yet. The front 4 is obviously incredible, but the DB's are below average and most of the LB core is either old or un-proven.
I'll be very surprised if they beat the Jets this week. I dont think they are an AFC playoff team without Brady. Just my opinion.
Of course they'll do those things. Of course the pats know what they are doing. But you dont just go from greatest QB of all time (arguably) to a life time back up and just keep rolling along. The kid hasnt played since HIGH SCHOOL.
The mental aspect alone just has to be devestating. And I'm not buying the defense as an elite unit quite yet. The front 4 is obviously incredible, but the DB's are below average and most of the LB core is either old or un-proven.
I'll be very surprised if they beat the Jets this week. I dont think they are an AFC playoff team without Brady. Just my opinion.
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pollardsvision
Footballguy
i voted for 3 less. i think they'll still win 10 games.
obviously, losing brady stings badly, but it's not like they are a terrible team without him. the OL will still be winning the battle in the trenches in most games. they will always have a good shot at winning when that happens. the passing game will take a hit, but defenses will still need to respect it with moss and welker. lost in the hoopla last year was the pats pretty good running game.
teams with great OLs, solid running games, and possibly the best WR group in the NFL can win plenty of games. what little bit of cassel i saw, he looked decent.
this team did win 3 SBs without a dominant passing game.
if the packers can be viable with rodgers, the patriots can be viable with cassel or another QB, imo.
obviously, losing brady stings badly, but it's not like they are a terrible team without him. the OL will still be winning the battle in the trenches in most games. they will always have a good shot at winning when that happens. the passing game will take a hit, but defenses will still need to respect it with moss and welker. lost in the hoopla last year was the pats pretty good running game.
teams with great OLs, solid running games, and possibly the best WR group in the NFL can win plenty of games. what little bit of cassel i saw, he looked decent.
this team did win 3 SBs without a dominant passing game.
if the packers can be viable with rodgers, the patriots can be viable with cassel or another QB, imo.
He might be 5 wins on the Titans. But you have to look at the whole team.JTwo wins is not Brady>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Casell kind of huge.Jeez people, suddenly Brady went form greatest of all time to "two wins" Brady.Two wins is HUGE. Two wins is a 9-7 season not a 7-9 season.The wins now may be a little tighter than if Brady was playing but still should be wins.With one game already won, I believe that the Pats can go 9-6 the rest of the way to finish 10-6.So Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
I'm not saying he is or he isn't, but he is going to be the starter on the Patriots, and he and the team got themselves in that situation for a reason. If he were absolutely HORRIBLE then he would never have gotten that far.What would you have said 7 years ago when Brady game in to play for Bledsoe? That he was better than Warner or Dilfer?Is Cassell better than Brady? Of course not. Could he potentially manage a game and make some plays when needed? Probably. Can the other 52 guys on the roster win each week for the Patriots? Yes.Cassell went 13-18 (72%) with a TD and 0 INT yesterday. That's basically what we have to go on for his NFL experience. If he continues to play like that, yes, I think the Pats will win 11-12 games.
I'm not saying they can't go 10-6, but if they do, then with Brady that would have been at least a 14-2 record.Two wins is HUGE. Two wins is a 9-7 season not a 7-9 season.The wins now may be a little tighter than if Brady was playing but still should be wins.With one game already won, I believe that the Pats can go 9-6 the rest of the way to finish 10-6.So Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Oh no; we're doomed!Lol; j/k.
MinnesotaFats
Footballguy
Voted 5.
From 12 or 13 to 7 or 8...
This is assuming they stick with QBs they have and don't bring in a new starter...
If they bring in someone of Chris Simms or Daunte Culpepper's quality, that would bump them up to 9 or 10..
From 12 or 13 to 7 or 8...
This is assuming they stick with QBs they have and don't bring in a new starter...
If they bring in someone of Chris Simms or Daunte Culpepper's quality, that would bump them up to 9 or 10..
I had the Patriots at 14-2 or 15-1I believe they can still get 10 or 11, so basically a 4 win differential.He might be 5 wins on the Titans. But you have to look at the whole team.How many fewer do you think the Patriots will win without him?JTwo wins is not Brady>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Casell kind of huge.Jeez people, suddenly Brady went form greatest of all time to "two wins" Brady.Two wins is HUGE. Two wins is a 9-7 season not a 7-9 season.The wins now may be a little tighter than if Brady was playing but still should be wins.With one game already won, I believe that the Pats can go 9-6 the rest of the way to finish 10-6.So Brady is only worth 2 wins for the Patriots?
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