I might be a racist. Who's with me? (1 Viewer)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Quick note: Most of my close friends think of me as a bleeding heart liberal. I tend to see myself as more of a libertarian. I plan on checking back later tonight to see if there have been anymore thoughtful responses.

Is this a serious conversation, or not?

Can't tell.

Being a racist is bad, right?

Don't be a racist.

 

[Hooper31]

Is this a serious conversation, or not?

I've had race on my mind a lot lately. Its been in the news quite a bit. I can't help but apply the notions of statistics to what I see and hear (I teach a stats class).

Being a racist is bad, right?

Don't be a racist.

Ok. Define "racist" for me.

 

[cstu]

Is this a serious conversation, or not?

I've had race on my mind a lot lately. Its been in the news quite a bit. I can't help but apply the notions of statistics to what I see and hear (I teach a stats class).

Since you teach stats could you tell me what percent of the population in a Bell curve overlaps when you shift the mean upward by 10%?

 

[-fish-]

And which abilities are there you think each race comes with out of the womb?

There is technically no such thing as different human races but within what we call races there are genetic differences. As for how this would affect abilities it would only be noticeable on the extreme ends of the distribution curve. For example it's rare for a non-black person to break 10 second in the 100m dash, but it's almost as rare for a black man as well.

why would it only be noticeable on the extreme ends of the curve? if one race was predisposed to being 10% better at [math/running/driving] than another race, it would be obvious across the population. it's not about breaking 10 seconds in the 100m dash. it's about the general performance of the population, not just the outliers.

That's not how it works. Even if it were true that one race had a mean vertical jump 10% better than another race (30" vs 33") there would still be a majority of population that overlaps.

If you look at this normal distribution curve and imagine it was shifted to the right from 50% to 60% you'd see that something like 90% of both populations are still within the same range.

The shift is the point, not the outliers.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Is this a serious conversation, or not?

I've had race on my mind a lot lately. Its been in the news quite a bit. I can't help but apply the notions of statistics to what I see and hear (I teach a stats class).

Being a racist is bad, right?

Don't be a racist.

Ok. Define "racist" for me.

Well if a theist is one who believes that a deity (theos) exists, and if a communist is one who believes in communism, and if a fascist is one who believes in fascism, and if a feminist is one who believes in feminism, then I'm going to say a racist is one who believes in racism. Accordingly, racism is a is a belief in race, that it exists as a scientific concept, that it is real (beyond mere perception, which is another issue), and that individual actions and legislation should be and can be appropriately based on race. If you're going to do that, you're going to need a rulebook for deciding who belongs in what race so that you make your decisions in a consistent fashion. So for instance, the Nuremberg Laws, the old VA Racial Purity Law and similar old state laws, or at a minimum the One Drop Rule. It's not pretty but if you're going to go full racist you might as well do it right.

 

[Hooper31]

Since you teach stats could you tell me what percent of the population in a Bell curve overlaps when you shift the mean upward by 10%?

I think I get what you're asking, but we need to be a bit more specific. If you're talking IQ its generally normally distributed with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of approximately 15. Are you wanting to shift a second distribution over so the mean is at 110 with the same standard deviation?

 

[cstu]

Since you teach stats could you tell me what percent of the population in a Bell curve overlaps when you shift the mean upward by 10%?

I think I get what you're asking, but we need to be a bit more specific. If you're talking IQ its generally normally distributed with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of approximately 15. Are you wanting to shift a second distribution over so the mean is at 110 with the same standard deviation?

Correct.

 

[Fennis]

got a link to the IQ of asians?

Take your pick. LINK

You'll find just as many pro vs con arguments there.

they all seem to pretty much discuss IQ of races in the United States.

Does race mutate when you cross a border?

No, races does not mutate when you cross a border. IQ, however, does change by race as you cross borders.

Correlation does not imply causation is a pretty basic concept.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Well if a theist is one who believes that a deity (theos) exists, and if a communist is one who believes in communism, and if a fascist is one who believes in fascism, and if a feminist is one who believes in feminism, then I'm going to say a racist is one who believes in racism.

That makes it sound like the definition of "racist" should be completely self-evident. But then . . .

Accordingly, racism is a is a belief in race, that it exists as a scientific concept, that it is real (beyond mere perception, which is another issue), and that individual actions and legislation should be and can be appropriately based on race.

. . . you jam a bunch of stuff in there that's not self-evident at all.

If you're going to do that, you're going to need a rulebook for deciding who belongs in what race so that you make your decisions in a consistent fashion. So for instance, the Nuremberg Laws, the old VA Racial Purity Law and similar old state laws, or at a minimum the One Drop Rule. It's not pretty but if you're going to go full racist you might as well do it right.

Do we also need a rulebook for determining what is pornography and what isn't, or will "I know it when I see it" suffice for porn but not race?

 

[Christo]

got a link to the IQ of asians?

Take your pick. LINK

You'll find just as many pro vs con arguments there.

they all seem to pretty much discuss IQ of races in the United States.

Does race mutate when you cross a border?

No, races does not mutate when you cross a border. IQ, however, does change by race as you cross borders.

Correlation does not imply causation is a pretty basic concept.

How does IQ change?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Well if a theist is one who believes that a deity (theos) exists, and if a communist is one who believes in communism, and if a fascist is one who believes in fascism, and if a feminist is one who believes in feminism, then I'm going to say a racist is one who believes in racism.

That makes it sound like it's completely self-evident. But then . . .

Accordingly, racism is a is a belief in race, that it exists as a scientific concept, that it is real (beyond mere perception, which is another issue), and that individual actions and legislation should be and can be appropriately based on race.

. . . you jam a bunch of stuff in there that's not self-evident at all.

If you're going to do that, you're going to need a rulebook for deciding who belongs in what race so that you make your decisions in a consistent fashion. So for instance, the Nuremberg Laws, the old VA Racial Purity Law and similar old state laws, or at a minimum the One Drop Rule. It's not pretty but if you're going to go full racist you might as well do it right.

Do we also need a rulebook for determining what is pornography and what isn't, or will "I know it when I see it" suffice for porn but not race?

Well "I know it when I see it" doesn't really qualify as a belief in anything; you can't believe in something if you can't define it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Well "I know it when I see it" doesn't really qualify as a belief in anything; you can't believe in something if you can't define it.

I suspect that Clive Bundy would be unable to articulate a consistent, sensible rule for determining who belongs to which race.

That doesn't make him a non-racist.

 

[Fennis]

got a link to the IQ of asians?

Take your pick. LINK

You'll find just as many pro vs con arguments there.

they all seem to pretty much discuss IQ of races in the United States.

Does race mutate when you cross a border?

No, races does not mutate when you cross a border. IQ, however, does change by race as you cross borders.

Correlation does not imply causation is a pretty basic concept.

How does IQ change?

IQ in China is higher than IQ in Vietnam. IQ deivates in China among its provinces, where poorer areas have lower IQs than higher areas. Same with the US.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Well "I know it when I see it" doesn't really qualify as a belief in anything; you can't believe in something if you can't define it.

I suspect that Clive Bundy would be unable to articulate a consistent, sensible rule for deciding who belongs to which race.

That doesn't make him a non-racist.

The default for those types is skin color - that's called the paper bag rule.

Hooper could use that too.

 

[Hooper31]

Since you teach stats could you tell me what percent of the population in a Bell curve overlaps when you shift the mean upward by 10%?

I think I get what you're asking, but we need to be a bit more specific. If you're talking IQ its generally normally distributed with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of approximately 15. Are you wanting to shift a second distribution over so the mean is at 110 with the same standard deviation?

Correct.

The portion your talking about isn't a simple calculation. Its referred to as Overlapping Coefficient. Not something I can do here from home.

LINK

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Well "I know it when I see it" doesn't really qualify as a belief in anything; you can't believe in something if you can't define it.

I suspect that Clive Bundy would be unable to articulate a consistent, sensible rule for deciding who belongs to which race.

That doesn't make him a non-racist.

The default for those types is skin color - that's called the paper bag rule.

I don't think the default is just skin color. If I could find an Asian person and a Latino person with identical skin tones, I suspect that Bundy would nonetheless place them into different racial categories.

 

[Hooper31]

I have to admit that I'm thinking possibly nothing good can come from devoting time to this topic. I guess I've had some random thoughts about this week that I wanted to share. It makes me uncomfortable when I hear the term racist thrown around loosely.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Well "I know it when I see it" doesn't really qualify as a belief in anything; you can't believe in something if you can't define it.

I suspect that Clive Bundy would be unable to articulate a consistent, sensible rule for deciding who belongs to which race.

That doesn't make him a non-racist.

The default for those types is skin color - that's called the paper bag rule.

I don't think the default is just skin color. If I could find an Asian person and a Latino person with identical skin tones, I suspect that Bundy would nonetheless place them into different racial categories.

Even so he is "evaluating" who belongs in what race based on what he consciously and/or subconsciously views as defining racial characteristics. To be super-ugly, because that's what racism is, it's most likely the eyes and the hue in the skin. Racists start with a basis for deciding who is in what race, whether it's quasi-scientific like the nazis or something they were taught at pappy's knee. The original "scientific" classifications from before 1900 were caucasoid, negroid and mongoloid, with a host of defining physical features, it doesn't sound like we have advanced much past that sometimes. I really hate this stuff but truly ask someone why they think someone is one race or another and it gets this ridiculous.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

It makes me uncomfortable when I hear the term racist thrown around loosely.

Yes, but it wasn't thrown loosely at Donald Sterling. He doesn't want his girlfriend publicly associating with black people. He asked Rollie Massimino why he thought he could coach [N-words]. He's said that blacks and Hispanics are not desirable tenants (and settled a lawsuit alleging racial discrimination in his renting practices).

He's a racist in any reasonable sense of the term.

 

[Christo]

got a link to the IQ of asians?

Take your pick. LINK

You'll find just as many pro vs con arguments there.

they all seem to pretty much discuss IQ of races in the United States.

Does race mutate when you cross a border?

No, races does not mutate when you cross a border. IQ, however, does change by race as you cross borders.

Correlation does not imply causation is a pretty basic concept.

How does IQ change?

IQ in China is higher than IQ in Vietnam. IQ deivates in China among its provinces, where poorer areas have lower IQs than higher areas. Same with the US.

So? Unless you have some proof that crossing a border helps one race more than another your point is meaningless.

 

[Hooper31]

Yes, but it wasn't thrown loosely at Donald Sterling.

I can't disagree with that.

 

[Henry Ford]

It makes me uncomfortable when I hear the term racist thrown around loosely.

Yes, but it wasn't thrown loosely at Donald Sterling. He doesn't want his girlfriend publicly associating with black people. He asked Rollie Massimino why he thought he could coach [N-words]. He's said that blacks and Hispanics are not desirable tenants (and settled a lawsuit alleging racial discrimination in his renting practices).

He's a racist in any reasonable sense of the term.

We don't evaluate what's right and wrong, we live in a society. We live in a culture. We have to live within that culture.

Racist? Pshaw. He's just happy to keep perpetuating institutionalized rules about who can associate with whom. How could he be racist? After all, he supports them and gives them food and clothes and cars and houses.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Well there goes the Seattle cornhole I was hoping for.

Bummer. I was hoping you could overlook my racial inadequacies.

I'll allow it

 

[Hooper31]

Well there goes the Seattle cornhole I was hoping for.

Bummer. I was hoping you could overlook my racial inadequacies.

I'll allow it

Well okay then. Do you golf? Or attempt to do something that resembles golf like the rest of us hackers? Nothing quite like a good race thread to inspire a cornhole.

 

[Henry Ford]

Well there goes the Seattle cornhole I was hoping for.

Bummer. I was hoping you could overlook my racial inadequacies.

I'll allow it

Well okay then. Do you golf? Or attempt to do something that resembles golf like the rest of us hackers? Nothing quite like a good race thread to inspire a cornhole.

Asking a black man if he golfs in a thread about racism.

Truly Martin Luther King Jr's work is done.

 

[Courtjester]

I know I am a racist because I have said things to myself when cut off in traffic about the person who did it racial heritage-whether that be white, black, etc....

But I am also prejudiced against old people too because I get behind blue hair and knuckles on the highway going 40 I say things to myself as well.

But I guess I am also sexist too because I have made comments while driving behind women who are doing their makeup while driving.

I also hate the young who text while drive.

I am a big mess I guess.

 

[-fish-]

I know I am a racist because I have said things to myself when cut off in traffic about the person who did it racial heritage-whether that be white, black, etc....

But I am also prejudiced against old people too because I get behind blue hair and knuckles on the highway going 40 I say things to myself as well.

But I guess I am also sexist too because I have made comments while driving behind women who are doing their makeup while driving.

I also hate the young who text while drive.

I am a big mess I guess.

I'm a regionalist. I'm convinced the entire northwest can't drive

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I know I am a racist because I have said things to myself when cut off in traffic about the person who did it racial heritage-whether that be white, black, etc....

But I am also prejudiced against old people too because I get behind blue hair and knuckles on the highway going 40 I say things to myself as well.

But I guess I am also sexist too because I have made comments while driving behind women who are doing their makeup while driving.

I also hate the young who text while drive.

I am a big mess I guess.

Old people are annoying when driving.

 

[Henry Ford]

I only scream at people driving foreign cars.

 

[DrJ]

I'm with you - you might be racist.

 

[AAABatteries]

Old oriental women who text while driving are the worst.

 

[cstu]

I know I am a racist because I have said things to myself when cut off in traffic about the person who did it racial heritage-whether that be white, black, etc....

But I am also prejudiced against old people too because I get behind blue hair and knuckles on the highway going 40 I say things to myself as well.

But I guess I am also sexist too because I have made comments while driving behind women who are doing their makeup while driving.

I also hate the young who text while drive.

I am a big mess I guess.

Old people are annoying when driving.

Don't get me started on middle aged white guys...