I might be a racist. Who's with me? (1 Viewer)

[Hooper31]

Well there goes the Seattle cornhole I was hoping for.

Bummer. I was hoping you could overlook my racial inadequacies.

 

[BassNBrew]

Defined:

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   

I'm a racist. Different races have differing levels of abilities in various areas that adhere to normally distributed bell curves. I believe the observable evidence is overwhelming.

Who's with me?

Can you elaborate please?

1. When you say "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" does "it" mean a characteristic/ability or the race?

2. Can you name a characteristic or ability specific to one race? Now that I read that definition more carefully, I don't think anyone with a legit high school diploma could be racist based on that definition.

 

[dickey moe]

Great thread, Shick!

 

[-fish-]

What if you do not believe the slight genetic variations between races are large enough to create meaningful differences. But it is the culture and upbringing of a group that manifests in different religions, different values for family, different values toward education. The prevailing factor of who a person chooses to be is based on his upbringing, peer and cultural pressures, and accepted norms within his/her society.

so I could choose to dunk?

 

[Henry Ford]

What if you do not believe the slight genetic variations between races are large enough to create meaningful differences. But it is the culture and upbringing of a group that manifests in different religions, different values for family, different values toward education. The prevailing factor of who a person chooses to be is based on his upbringing, peer and cultural pressures, and accepted norms within his/her society.

so I could choose to dunk?

How tall are you?

 

[SacramentoBob]

What if you do not believe the slight genetic variations between races are large enough to create meaningful differences. But it is the culture and upbringing of a group that manifests in different religions, different values for family, different values toward education. The prevailing factor of who a person chooses to be is based on his upbringing, peer and cultural pressures, and accepted norms within his/her society.

so I could choose to dunk?

Probably.

 

[Hooper31]

1. When you say "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" does "it" mean a characteristic/ability or the race?

Characteristic/ability

2. Can you name a characteristic or ability specific to one race? Now that I read that definition more carefully, I don't think anyone with a legit high school diploma could be racist based on that definition.

Example: When I watch the 100 meter dash final at the Olympics each year I observe that my race is underrepresented.

Example: All 32 starting running backs in the NFL are of the same race. I believe (don't know for sure) that the talent pool at the high school level is dominated by caucasian youth. When elite players from that level are selected to play at the college and professional level the caucasians are disportionately underrepresented.

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

I don't think we're all born with the same mean potential. I think the differences are small and often negligible due to economic reasons. But by definition does that not make me a racist?

I might be a sexist too. I don't see an equal number of guys selling themselves to women on the Vegas strip. That observation leads me to believe that men and women are not the same.

 

[Limp Ditka]

!, that klan hood really brings out the color of your eyes.

 

[-fish-]

What if you do not believe the slight genetic variations between races are large enough to create meaningful differences. But it is the culture and upbringing of a group that manifests in different religions, different values for family, different values toward education. The prevailing factor of who a person chooses to be is based on his upbringing, peer and cultural pressures, and accepted norms within his/her society.

so I could choose to dunk?

How tall are you?

it's not the height so much as the width at this point.

 

[timschochet]

If you were a sneetch, would you have a star on your belly? Yes or no?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Go home, Hooper.

 

[Hooper31]

!, that klan hood really brings out the color of your eyes.

My heritage is German Jew (Ashkenazic). I don't think they would take me in.

 

[Hooper31]

Quick note: Most of my close friends think of me as a bleeding heart liberal. I tend to see myself as more of a libertarian. I plan on checking back later tonight to see if there have been anymore thoughtful responses.

 

[NCCommish]

1. When you say "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" does "it" mean a characteristic/ability or the race?

Characteristic/ability

2. Can you name a characteristic or ability specific to one race? Now that I read that definition more carefully, I don't think anyone with a legit high school diploma could be racist based on that definition.

Example: When I watch the 100 meter dash final at the Olympics each year I observe that my race is underrepresented.

Example: All 32 starting running backs in the NFL are of the same race. I believe (don't know for sure) that the talent pool at the high school level is dominated by caucasian youth. When elite players from that level are selected to play at the college and professional level the caucasians are disportionately underrepresented.

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

I don't think we're all born with the same mean potential. I think the differences are small and often negligible due to economic reasons. But by definition does that not make me a racist?

I might be a sexist too. I don't see an equal number of guys selling themselves to women on the Vegas strip. That observation leads me to believe that men and women are not the same.

I see correlation creeping into causation here. You know where you can end up when you do that.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Quick note: Most of my close friends think of me as a bleeding heart liberal. I tend to see myself as more of a libertarian. I plan on checking back later tonight to see if there have been anymore thoughtful responses.

I've always had you pegged as a liberaltarian.

 

[McGarnicle]

Man, they're really coming out of the woodwork lately right?

 

[timschochet]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

 

[BassNBrew]

1. When you say "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" does "it" mean a characteristic/ability or the race?

Characteristic/ability

2. Can you name a characteristic or ability specific to one race? Now that I read that definition more carefully, I don't think anyone with a legit high school diploma could be racist based on that definition.

Example: When I watch the 100 meter dash final at the Olympics each year I observe that my race is underrepresented.

Example: All 32 starting running backs in the NFL are of the same race. I believe (don't know for sure) that the talent pool at the high school level is dominated by caucasian youth. When elite players from that level are selected to play at the college and professional level the caucasians are disportionately underrepresented.

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

I don't think we're all born with the same mean potential. I think the differences are small and often negligible due to economic reasons. But by definition does that not make me a racist?

I might be a sexist too. I don't see an equal number of guys selling themselves to women on the Vegas strip. That observation leads me to believe that men and women are not the same.

I assumed that was what you meant on both accounts. Specific to one race is really poor wording. As it's written and using your examples above, your race would not be able to run 100 yards and only Asians would have an IQ.

Disregarding all of that, I'm pretty sure there are genetic adaptions based on environment that make some races superior/inferior to others (based on the mean) relating to certain characteristics. Isn't this a premise of evolution? Would it be fair to say that if you believe in evolution then you have to be a racist based on the definition you intended?

 

[BassNBrew]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Tim - Your post is sort of saying Chinese parents are better at raising children then black and latino parents.

 

[BassNBrew]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Let me ask you a question to have you expand on this. Are you a racist in these instances...

1. Purple people have superior intelligence because of their skin color.

2. Purple people are raised in a better environment therefore purple people have superior intelligence.

 

[timschochet]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Tim - Your post is sort of saying Chinese parents are better at raising children then black and latino parents.

Chinese immigrant parents, who come from a culture where education is sacrosanct, are better at raising children in terms of education than are black and Latino parents who live in poverty in the inner city (not black or Latino parents who don't live in the inner city.) . This is pretty much true, but it is not racist to think so. Are those Chinese parents better at instilling values, in raising their kids to be better human beings? I have no idea, but I doubt it.

 

[timschochet]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Let me ask you a question to have you expand on this. Are you a racist in these instances...

1. Purple people have superior intelligence because of their skin color.

2. Purple people are raised in a better environment therefore purple people have superior intelligence.

1 is obviously racist.

2. This depends on what you mean by intelligence. Is intelligence how much you know? Or is it your capacity to learn? If it's how much you know, then the second statement is not racist, so long as you qualify it, as such:

Purple people are more often than not raised in a better environment, therefore purple people generally have superior intelligence.

However, if intelligence is defined by your capacity to learn, then it's racist no matter how much you qualify it.

 

[BassNBrew]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Tim - Your post is sort of saying Chinese parents are better at raising children then black and latino parents.

Chinese immigrant parents, who come from a culture where education is sacrosanct, are better at raising children in terms of education than are black and Latino parents who live in poverty in the inner city (not black or Latino parents who don't live in the inner city.) . This is pretty much true, but it is not racist to think so. Are those Chinese parents better at instilling values, in raising their kids to be better human beings? I have no idea, but I doubt it.

Sticking with the inner city. If you said inner city parents are inferior at raising children in terms of education due to poverty you wouldn't be racist. What if you made the same statement but changed the work poverty to culture. Would that be racist in your opinion?

 

[timschochet]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Tim - Your post is sort of saying Chinese parents are better at raising children then black and latino parents.

Chinese immigrant parents, who come from a culture where education is sacrosanct, are better at raising children in terms of education than are black and Latino parents who live in poverty in the inner city (not black or Latino parents who don't live in the inner city.) . This is pretty much true, but it is not racist to think so. Are those Chinese parents better at instilling values, in raising their kids to be better human beings? I have no idea, but I doubt it.

Sticking with the inner city. If you said inner city parents are inferior at raising children in terms of education due to poverty you wouldn't be racist. What if you made the same statement but changed the work poverty to culture. Would that be racist in your opinion?

Not necessarily. But I wouldn't say it because it's awfully close to racism. It's OK to use culture to discuss positives, such as Chinese culture and Jewish culture make for more educated children, etc. But when you use culture to discuss negatives, somebody is likely to take offense. That being said, I do believe that culture plays both positive and negative roles in upbringing.

 

[BassNBrew]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Let me ask you a question to have you expand on this. Are you a racist in these instances...

1. Purple people have superior intelligence because of their skin color.

2. Purple people are raised in a better environment therefore purple people have superior intelligence.

1 is obviously racist.

2. This depends on what you mean by intelligence. Is intelligence how much you know? Or is it your capacity to learn? If it's how much you know, then the second statement is not racist, so long as you qualify it, as such:

Purple people are more often than not raised in a better environment, therefore purple people generally have superior intelligence.

However, if intelligence is defined by your capacity to learn, then it's racist no matter how much you qualify it.

Understood.

Have there been any scientific studies analyzing brain capacity between various races showing a difference? I'm going to assume that we all have the same capacity regardless of race for the question.

So if you are racist based a capacity to learn belief would you be racist based on a capacity to XXXXX belief if XXXXX had been proven to be different. Examples of XXXXX might be related to genetic height, sun tolerance, or disease resistance.

 

[BassNBrew]

Example: Anecdotally I have witnessed asian students perform and score much higher on AP exams than the general population for many years. This seems to reinforce the findings in Herrnstein and Murray's book The Bell Curve with regard to IQ.

In order to be racist you would have to believe that there is something intrinsic among Asians, not related to upbringing or environment, that makes them smarter.

For example: let's say you took 100 Chinese babies and placed them in the inner city, to be raised by poor black and Latino parents. If you believe that, as those kids grow up, they would perform at a higher level than the children around them, you are a racist.

Tim - Your post is sort of saying Chinese parents are better at raising children then black and latino parents.

Chinese immigrant parents, who come from a culture where education is sacrosanct, are better at raising children in terms of education than are black and Latino parents who live in poverty in the inner city (not black or Latino parents who don't live in the inner city.) . This is pretty much true, but it is not racist to think so. Are those Chinese parents better at instilling values, in raising their kids to be better human beings? I have no idea, but I doubt it.

Sticking with the inner city. If you said inner city parents are inferior at raising children in terms of education due to poverty you wouldn't be racist. What if you made the same statement but changed the work poverty to culture. Would that be racist in your opinion?

Not necessarily. But I wouldn't say it because it's awfully close to racism. It's OK to use culture to discuss positives, such as Chinese culture and Jewish culture make for more educated children, etc. But when you use culture to discuss negatives, somebody is likely to take offense. That being said, I do believe that culture plays both positive and negative roles in upbringing.

Does not seem like this is very fair (not arguing the accuracy of the reality) that making positive statements about a culture is OK but making negative statements would be racist.

 

[Ilov80s]

What if the purple people were raised by Latino parents living in the outer city?

 

[Hooper31]

I see correlation creeping into causation here. You know where you can end up when you do that.

Valid point. Observational studies are never foundation for showing causation. That said, I doubt anyone is going to submit themselves (or their children) to full blown experimentation under double-blind scenarios (is that even possible?) and randomization.

 

[sublimeone]

I was once told (by a white lesbian) it was racist to think black people are better athletes. I thought this was just common knowledge.

 

[Dr Oadi]

I was once told (by a white lesbian) it was racist to think black people are better athletes. I thought this was just common knowledge.

And racism isn't common?

 

[moleculo]

it's completely fair, imo, to point out differences between people - between races, genders, etc. It's foolish to stick your head in the sand and pretend there are not, especially if one considers cultural differences as well as genetic differences.

Where you get into trouble is assigning values to the differences, and thereby assigning values to races. This is where Hooper's definition breaks down: "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." Asians may be better at math, but that's a pretty terrible way to distinguish them as inferior or superior.

If the definition had omitted that last sentence, I would have no problem with it.

 

[Mr.Pack]

And which abilities are there you think each race comes with out of the womb?

I mainly subscribe to the theory of multiple intelligences.

I have looked at that bit. It's interesting but I don't recall a racial component.

How are you my liberal friend?

Did you ever get my PM?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Hooper = Jimmy The Greek

 

[rct]

I was once told (by a white lesbian) it was racist to think black people are better athletes. I thought this was just common knowledge.

White lesbians are the last word on any subject.

 

[Hooper31]

Where you get into trouble is assigning values to the differences, and thereby assigning values to races. This is where Hooper's definition breaks down: "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." Asians may be better at math, but that's a pretty terrible way to distinguish them as inferior or superior.

If the definition had omitted that last sentence, I would have no problem with it.

I don't lay claim to the that definition. I just used the intergoogle by typing in "definition of racist". If was the definition that google supplied. LINK

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Somebody should fight you in a parking lot.

 

[Christo]

And which abilities are there you think each race comes with out of the womb?

Don't black dudes have big schlongs and Asian dudes have tiny schlongs?

 

[Christo]

There are no Jewish running backs in the NFL. That's indicative of something...probably that prejudice of Jews still exists in our fair country.

Aren't they on the OL?

 

[moleculo]

Where you get into trouble is assigning values to the differences, and thereby assigning values to races. This is where Hooper's definition breaks down: "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." Asians may be better at math, but that's a pretty terrible way to distinguish them as inferior or superior.

If the definition had omitted that last sentence, I would have no problem with it.

I don't lay claim to the that definition. I just used the intergoogle by typing in "definition of racist". If was the definition that google supplied. LINK

would it make you feel better if I had said, "the definition that Hooper provided in his thread?"

 

[Henry Ford]

Where you get into trouble is assigning values to the differences, and thereby assigning values to races. This is where Hooper's definition breaks down: "especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." Asians may be better at math, but that's a pretty terrible way to distinguish them as inferior or superior.

If the definition had omitted that last sentence, I would have no problem with it.

I don't lay claim to the that definition. I just used the intergoogle by typing in "definition of racist". If was the definition that google supplied. LINK

Do you believe that a protein that is more prevalent in the descendants of one group that makes them more likely to have faster twitch muscle fibers makes them superior as a race?

 

[Hooper31]

Do you believe that a protein that is more prevalent in the descendants of one group that makes them more likely to have faster twitch muscle fibers makes them superior as a race?

Perhaps superior in one of the multiple intelligences, but not to say "superior as a race". I think that goes too far.

 

[Hooper31]

would it make you feel better if I had said, "the definition that Hooper provided in his thread?"

I don't feel one way or the other about it. Just pointing out where the definition came from and didn't want to take credit for an attempt at forming my own definition.

 

[Henry Ford]

Do you believe that a protein that is more prevalent in the descendants of one group that makes them more likely to have faster twitch muscle fibers makes them superior as a race?

Perhaps superior in one of the multiple intelligences, but not to say "superior as a race". I think that goes too far.

Then you're counter to the definition you cited

 

[Hooper31]

Then you're counter to the definition you cited

I guess maybe I'm not a racist by that definition. Maybe I'm a pragmatic realist. I think I've cornered myself into being some sort of -ist now.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

The guy who owns the Clippers I guess

 

[Hooper31]

The guy who owns the Clippers I guess

I have to admit that all the talk about that guy nudged me into starting this thread.

I'm fairly uncomfortable with the notion that not liking black people means that he isn't allowed to own and operate a business. I think the dude is a complete doosh, but the libertarian side of me doesn't like where this is going.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

it's completely fair, imo, to point out differences between people - between races, ...

I agree! Except for one little detail...

 

[Henry Ford]

Then you're counter to the definition you cited

I guess maybe I'm not a racist by that definition. Maybe I'm a pragmatic realist. I think I've cornered myself into being some sort of -ist now.

Maybe you're just trying to stir up controversy and don't consider yourself a racist.

 

[Henry Ford]

The guy who owns the Clippers I guess

I have to admit that all the talk about that guy nudged me into starting this thread.

I'm fairly uncomfortable with the notion that not liking black people means that he isn't allowed to own and operate a business. I think the dude is a complete doosh, but the libertarian side of me doesn't like where this is going.

He's at the very least okay with institutionalizing racism. If he owned the company outright, people could just choose to not work for him. But there's a draft. Do you think people should be forced to work for him to work in their chosen professions?

 

[timschochet]

The guy who owns the Clippers I guess

I have to admit that all the talk about that guy nudged me into starting this thread.

I'm fairly uncomfortable with the notion that not liking black people means that he isn't allowed to own and operate a business. I think the dude is a complete doosh, but the libertarian side of me doesn't like where this is going.

I hear this a lot, and I think it's a misinterpretation of libertarianism. The government is not forcing Sterling out- that's what you should be concerned with as a libertarian. The NBA is a private institution, so if they want to get rid of Sterling, that shouldn't bother you (at least from a libertarian POV.)