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I need a new dog. (1 Viewer)

I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
I believe they do it so it sounds more snobby and they can sell the mutt for more money.
:shrug: I got my Goldendoodle at a shelter and paid a small adoption fee that would have been paid for any other dog. I had a Golden Retriever when I was young and never liked the dog that much (it was my fathers dog) but I love this dog. Can't tell you how much of that is adding the Standard Poodle in with the Golden but I like the product. Plus, even though he does shed a bit it is much less than what a Golden Retriever would shed. In the end, it is just another kind (aka breed) of dog- just a little newer and bred from two existing well established breeds.
The pet store closest to me sells mutts like labradoddles for three times the "mutt" price. That's why I think it's a scam. I got my two black labs from a shelter for an adoption fee. Would buy in a pet store if the dog really grabbed me though. The English black lab female has a slight birth defect, the male is a blue heeler cross. It's funny having a dog that looks like a black lab that is afraid of water....
Simple supply and demand. They are cuter than your typical mutt and thus people are willing to pay more.
 
Why should you avoid a pet store dog anyway? If for some reason, I see a pet store dog and I like it, why shouldn't I buy it?
I guess its possible that you don't know this and that you're not just fishing, but pet stores get supplied by puppy mills. Just google puppy mills and look at the pics. I've seen it first hand out in PA. I'll never get the site and smell out of my mind.
Yea, puppy mills are the big evil here for getting a dog at a pet store or a 'breeder' (breeder in parenthesis as they will present themselves as being a breeder but really just run puppy mills). The life quality for dogs in puppy mills is non-existent and the only thing worse are the evil people involved in dog fighting.
 
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
I believe they do it so it sounds more snobby and they can sell the mutt for more money.
:shrug: I got my Goldendoodle at a shelter and paid a small adoption fee that would have been paid for any other dog. I had a Golden Retriever when I was young and never liked the dog that much (it was my fathers dog) but I love this dog. Can't tell you how much of that is adding the Standard Poodle in with the Golden but I like the product. Plus, even though he does shed a bit it is much less than what a Golden Retriever would shed. In the end, it is just another kind (aka breed) of dog- just a little newer and bred from two existing well established breeds.
The pet store closest to me sells mutts like labradoddles for three times the "mutt" price. That's why I think it's a scam. I got my two black labs from a shelter for an adoption fee. Would buy in a pet store if the dog really grabbed me though. The English black lab female has a slight birth defect, the male is a blue heeler cross. It's funny having a dog that looks like a black lab that is afraid of water....
Simple supply and demand. They are cuter than your typical mutt and thus people are willing to pay more.
It is more then just cuter and it was not an accidental mutt like Bueno is saying. These dogs were cross bred to get the best genetic traits from the two breeds into one dog. A labradoodle has a lot of yellow lab but it wont shed which is a trait of the poodle. There is more but you can look it up if you want to.
 
It is more then just cuter and it was not an accidental mutt like Bueno is saying. These dogs were cross bred to get the best genetic traits from the two breeds into one dog. A labradoodle has a lot of yellow lab but it wont shed which is a trait of the poodle. There is more but you can look it up if you want to.
I am really addressing it in broad terms here for the mixed breed phenomenon that has exploded in recent years and if you go back a few posts you will see that I addressed this more deeply in talking about Goldendoodles (since I have one).
 
It is more then just cuter and it was not an accidental mutt like Bueno is saying. These dogs were cross bred to get the best genetic traits from the two breeds into one dog. A labradoodle has a lot of yellow lab but it wont shed which is a trait of the poodle. There is more but you can look it up if you want to.
I am really addressing it in broad terms here for the mixed breed phenomenon that has exploded in recent years and if you go back a few posts you will see that I addressed this more deeply in talking about Goldendoodles (since I have one).
:thumbup:
 
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
That's the deal with the dog I have, I found a breeder who has been perfecting a "mini-husky. They breed Siberian husky with the shiba inu and have been able to get the best of both dogs. My Kira has the friendliness of the Siberian combined with the smaller size (35 pounds) and tenacity of the shiba inu...both breeds are on the stubborn side and and she requires a pretty strict regime to keep her focused, and of course they like to bolt whenever the opportunity strikes. But, a very smart problem solving type of dog, well worth the time and effort.
 
So I need a new dog. Would like a white/yellow lab again, but not 100 decided. The problem is this.... I know I'm not supposed to go to a breeder so I have been to the local shelter about 5 times over the past 2 months. 90% of the dogs are pits. I'm in the pits are good dogs camp, but I'm just not looking for a muscle bound clumsy dog with a tail from hell. (Ive had them in the past). All the other dogs have something else wrong or don't fit our family. Either the dog hates kids, or is great with kids, but hates other dogs or some other random reason they aren't a good fit. If there is a good dog, they are all signed up and gone unless you camp out at the shelter. Am a scoundrel for not adopting? If I do go to a breeder, how do I know they aren't puppy mills? Do I have to pay $2,000+ for a lab who wont be crippled by 5?
i haven't read through the whole thread just yet, but have you tried petfinder and other similar websites. My wife suckers me into fostering dogs and puppies from the shelters, and we do do a lot of pitties, but there are other dogs that we can access. Especially if you are looking for a certain kind, you can probably see one on petfinder or ask the shelter that if they run into one to give you a call. Also look for a dog that is current under "foster care". I have to say this should be one of the top ways to get a family dog because you have volunteers who really care for the dogs take care of them for a bit and teach them a ton of things they wouldn't get in a shelter or pet store. The dogs we eventually adopt out are honestly some of the best trained dogs at their ages, socialized beyond belief, etc. And if you want to see a grown man cry, get a dog from some people who are fostering dogs for the first time. It can be brutal giving that dog up. I really think this is the way to go, so if you have any quesstions feel free to ask away, preferably when I am sober but in quick summary: i love shelter dogs, and you may be able to get a specific type through a rescue or shelter they know. Petfinder is really good, and if you can get a dog that is currently in foster care that is a big plus too
 
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
That's the deal with the dog I have, I found a breeder who has been perfecting a "mini-husky. They breed Siberian husky with the shiba inu and have been able to get the best of both dogs. My Kira has the friendliness of the Siberian combined with the smaller size (35 pounds) and tenacity of the shiba inu...both breeds are on the stubborn side and and she requires a pretty strict regime to keep her focused, and of course they like to bolt whenever the opportunity strikes. But, a very smart problem solving type of dog, well worth the time and effort.
Wow... must be a pain to train. Shiba Inu's are known for being one of the hardest to train dogs and Siberian Huskies are not easy either.
 
'bueno said:
'Chadstroma said:
'bueno said:
'cubd8 said:
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
I believe they do it so it sounds more snobby and they can sell the mutt for more money.
That's certainly true, but there are good reasons to methodically mix breeds. Sometimes it works out really well. There are alot of people that are very happy that Louis Doberman decided the existing breeds didn't suit his needs. I don't know much about Labradoodles, but if they act like labs and shed less, that seems like a worthy reason to mix the breeds.I'm not particularly a fan of all the toy breed mongrels being created, but I just can't stand toy breeds. I can't imagine any of those mixings have much purpose, but I've never been in tune with the thought process of those that like them. It seems to me that one breed could serve the needs of those that want a neurotic, yappy lap dog, but there's no accounting for taste. I'm sure in those warped minds, there must be some seemingly decent reason for more of these breeds.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Chadstroma said:
'jerry jones said:
'Chadstroma said:
'bueno said:
'cubd8 said:
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
That's the deal with the dog I have, I found a breeder who has been perfecting a "mini-husky. They breed Siberian husky with the shiba inu and have been able to get the best of both dogs. My Kira has the friendliness of the Siberian combined with the smaller size (35 pounds) and tenacity of the shiba inu...both breeds are on the stubborn side and and she requires a pretty strict regime to keep her focused, and of course they like to bolt whenever the opportunity strikes. But, a very smart problem solving type of dog, well worth the time and effort.
Wow... must be a pain to train. Shiba Inu's are known for being one of the hardest to train dogs and Siberian Huskies are not easy either.
Yes that's true...the breeder put it this way and after 3 years I have to agree.."they want to know what's in it for them"
 
'bueno said:
'Chadstroma said:
'bueno said:
'cubd8 said:
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
I believe they do it so it sounds more snobby and they can sell the mutt for more money.
That's certainly true, but there are good reasons to methodically mix breeds. Sometimes it works out really well. There are alot of people that are very happy that Louis Doberman decided the existing breeds didn't suit his needs. I don't know much about Labradoodles, but if they act like labs and shed less, that seems like a worthy reason to mix the breeds.I'm not particularly a fan of all the toy breed mongrels being created, but I just can't stand toy breeds. I can't imagine any of those mixings have much purpose, but I've never been in tune with the thought process of those that like them. It seems to me that one breed could serve the needs of those that want a neurotic, yappy lap dog, but there's no accounting for taste. I'm sure in those warped minds, there must be some seemingly decent reason for more of these breeds.
They are 'cute'. That is about it.
 
'bueno said:
'Chadstroma said:
'bueno said:
'cubd8 said:
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
I believe they do it so it sounds more snobby and they can sell the mutt for more money.
That's certainly true, but there are good reasons to methodically mix breeds. Sometimes it works out really well. There are alot of people that are very happy that Louis Doberman decided the existing breeds didn't suit his needs. I don't know much about Labradoodles, but if they act like labs and shed less, that seems like a worthy reason to mix the breeds.I'm not particularly a fan of all the toy breed mongrels being created, but I just can't stand toy breeds. I can't imagine any of those mixings have much purpose, but I've never been in tune with the thought process of those that like them. It seems to me that one breed could serve the needs of those that want a neurotic, yappy lap dog, but there's no accounting for taste. I'm sure in those warped minds, there must be some seemingly decent reason for more of these breeds.
They are 'cute'. That is about it.
I'm not an expert on mixing breeds, I'm assumed it's done to make money....As long as my puggle stays healthy, he's been a great addition. Like I said, just a completely lovable, very happy dog. He's brought a lot of happiness.
 
I'm also in the midst of trying to get a dog from a shelter. The problem I am having is that I don't want a lab and that is pretty much all the shelters here have. Trying to find one that is at least half border collie.
Found a collie / shepard cross from the local shelter, about 4 weeks old. Get her next week :thumbup:
 
I'm also in the midst of trying to get a dog from a shelter. The problem I am having is that I don't want a lab and that is pretty much all the shelters here have. Trying to find one that is at least half border collie.
Found a collie / shepard cross from the local shelter, about 4 weeks old. Get her next week :thumbup:
That dog is going to need a TON of exercise. I hope you are active, have a big yard and willing to spend the time with him or you run a ranch.
 
I'm also in the midst of trying to get a dog from a shelter. The problem I am having is that I don't want a lab and that is pretty much all the shelters here have. Trying to find one that is at least half border collie.
Found a collie / shepard cross from the local shelter, about 4 weeks old. Get her next week :thumbup:
That dog is going to need a TON of exercise. I hope you are active, have a big yard and willing to spend the time with him or you run a ranch.
Winter will be tough (for me to walk her) but summer will be great. At the lake pretty much every weekend so I hope she likes to swim. And we've got a pretty big dog park close by.
 
Pet finder. I didn't link directly because HE"S MINE! MINE I TELL YOU, ALL MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hot:
Have you contacted them yet? With my dog, they had nearly 100 applications sent in for him.
Look buddy. I said he's mine. If you can't get that through your brick head I.......I'm sorry.Seriously, yes I contacted them. Left them a VM and filled out and emailed their adoption application. I am keeping my fingers crossed he is still available. It's bad to say, but I am hoping the high adoption fee of $450 has temporarily shielded him. He is also 6, which may scare people off. That's sorta the mid life point of these dogs and entering the medical years.

I hope we get him, he's a handsome devil with a blockhead.

 
I'm also in the midst of trying to get a dog from a shelter. The problem I am having is that I don't want a lab and that is pretty much all the shelters here have. Trying to find one that is at least half border collie.
Found a collie / shepard cross from the local shelter, about 4 weeks old. Get her next week :thumbup:
That dog is going to need a TON of exercise. I hope you are active, have a big yard and willing to spend the time with him or you run a ranch.
Winter will be tough (for me to walk her) but summer will be great. At the lake pretty much every weekend so I hope she likes to swim. And we've got a pretty big dog park close by.
Hopefully there is a large field nearby you that you could let her loose on. My Goldendoodle loves to run around in the snow (and dive in it, roll around in it, etc) so that can help with the exercise in the winter. If you have not had a Collie or even a Shepard before, they can get destructive if not given enough exercise because they get bored and are such high energy dogs.
 
I'm also in the midst of trying to get a dog from a shelter. The problem I am having is that I don't want a lab and that is pretty much all the shelters here have. Trying to find one that is at least half border collie.
Found a collie / shepard cross from the local shelter, about 4 weeks old. Get her next week :thumbup:
That dog is going to need a TON of exercise. I hope you are active, have a big yard and willing to spend the time with him or you run a ranch.
Winter will be tough (for me to walk her) but summer will be great. At the lake pretty much every weekend so I hope she likes to swim. And we've got a pretty big dog park close by.
Hopefully there is a large field nearby you that you could let her loose on. My Goldendoodle loves to run around in the snow (and dive in it, roll around in it, etc) so that can help with the exercise in the winter. If you have not had a Collie or even a Shepard before, they can get destructive if not given enough exercise because they get bored and are such high energy dogs.
Besides the big dog park, there is a school field about a block away. Exercise for the dog will be no problem. Me freezing my nads off will be.
 
Pet finder. I didn't link directly because HE"S MINE! MINE I TELL YOU, ALL MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hot:
Have you contacted them yet? With my dog, they had nearly 100 applications sent in for him.
Look buddy. I said he's mine. If you can't get that through your brick head I.......I'm sorry.Seriously, yes I contacted them. Left them a VM and filled out and emailed their adoption application. I am keeping my fingers crossed he is still available. It's bad to say, but I am hoping the high adoption fee of $450 has temporarily shielded him. He is also 6, which may scare people off. That's sorta the mid life point of these dogs and entering the medical years.

I hope we get him, he's a handsome devil with a blockhead.
The age is in your corner and the adoption fee is higher than normal so that should help too. Good luck.
 
I'm also in the midst of trying to get a dog from a shelter. The problem I am having is that I don't want a lab and that is pretty much all the shelters here have. Trying to find one that is at least half border collie.
Found a collie / shepard cross from the local shelter, about 4 weeks old. Get her next week :thumbup:
That dog is going to need a TON of exercise. I hope you are active, have a big yard and willing to spend the time with him or you run a ranch.
Winter will be tough (for me to walk her) but summer will be great. At the lake pretty much every weekend so I hope she likes to swim. And we've got a pretty big dog park close by.
Hopefully there is a large field nearby you that you could let her loose on. My Goldendoodle loves to run around in the snow (and dive in it, roll around in it, etc) so that can help with the exercise in the winter. If you have not had a Collie or even a Shepard before, they can get destructive if not given enough exercise because they get bored and are such high energy dogs.
Besides the big dog park, there is a school field about a block away. Exercise for the dog will be no problem. Me freezing my nads off will be.
Aw, you can bundle up... for me the problem is cleaning up the dog after. I have pictures of him that look like Chewie on Hoth.
 
Why should you avoid a pet store dog anyway? If for some reason, I see a pet store dog and I like it, why shouldn't I buy it?


A report by Mary Harwelik *


RealPitBull@gmail.comAuthor's note: I will continue to investigate and report on the tragedy that is the commerical pet industry. This is an ongoing process.



What is a puppymill?



A puppymill is generally considered to be a large-scale dog breeding operation that wholesales dogs to retail establishments, or to middlemen who then sell to retail establishments. Puppymills keep animals in small cages (similar to large chicken crates) for most of their natural lives. The #####es are bred on their first heat (which usually occurs around 6 months), and on every heat thereafter, until they die naturally (or are diposed of). Conditions at puppymills vary, although even in the best of circumstances, these establishments are abusive to dogs.



Puppymills are dirty, smelly, and house dogs in cramped quarters. Because of the conditions, the dogs may fight each other, develop neurotic behavior (such as obsessive licking, jumping, spinning, cage pacing, etc), and become susceptible to illness and injury. Oftentimes, dogs with wounds aquired during kennel fights or under other circumstances, will be left untreated. The cages in which the dogs are kept have wire bottoms. The dogs are forced to spend their entire lives in these cages, with little or no human contact, exercise, health care, and training.



Mills house a large number of breeding dogs, sometimes numbering well into the hundreds. The only job of these animals is to produce puppies. The puppies are in turn sold directly to pet shops or to middlemen--called brokers--across the country. The puppies are shipped in cramped, crowded trucks, at a very young age. Many times puppies become sick or injured during the trek to their destination or even die. Damaged/ill puppies are disposed of. The ones who are lucky enough to survive the ordeal end up at the pet shops, or in the hands of brokers who then sell the animals to pet shops.



Puppymilling is big business in the United States, with annual grosses amounting to millions. The United States Department of Agriculture(USDA) inspects and licenses mills, but their standards for licensing are too low for the tastes of many knowledgeable dog people, including veterinarians, behaviorists, and trainers. In addition, many times violations of code are ignored, and disciplinary action is rarely taken against those mill operators who are deemed to be in violation of code. Dead, dying, and sick dogs, filthy grounds, and cramped cages may be found even at those mills that are USDA licensed. The mills do not get inspected enough, nor are millers given incentive to clean up their act. The mills that are not licensed by the USDA are even worse, as hard to imagine as that may be.



Visit some puppymills: WARNING-GRAPHIC!



*Puppymill Nightmare



*Puppymill Bust



*A Visit To A Puppymill



Where do the puppymill pups end up?



Puppymill pups ultimately end up in pet shops. Those cute, sweet, innocent puppies you see in the window had their beginnings in a mill, probably in a situation much like what is described above. Most likely, their parents are still locked in cramped, dirty crates, forced to produce still more dogs for the industry.



Pet shops claim that their dogs come from breeders, that their animals are purchased from USDA licensed producers, and that the dogs are AKC registered (or other dog registries, some not reputable). The effectiveness of these claims depends largely upon the naivete' of the general public. Ask if the animals come from mills, and you will get an emphatic, "No!". But this of course is not true. The employees of these stores are coached on what to say to customers, and many times are not even aware of the truth behind the puppies they sell.



Let's examine the claims pet shops make:



1) The "breeders" are actually millers and other large-scale dog producers whose main concerns are merely to pump out as many dogs of different breeds in as short a period of time as possible. Responsible breeders would never wholesale their dogs to petshops. Responsible breeders cannot meet the demand of pet shops, who sell many different dogs and breeds and constantly need to replenish their stock. The dog producers that DO meet the pet shop's stock demands are the millers who pump out hundreds of puppies of many different breeds annually. The pet shop is also able to enjoy the convenience of purchasing all their animals from one source.



2) As already discussed, USDA licensing does not guarentee humane treatment of the dogs in mills. (Please see the Links section above to view the grounds of some USDA licensed establishments). Also, remember that the USDA licenses and oversees factory farming. What the USDA considers acceptable in factory farms outrage and horrify many people who are made aware of what exactly goes on behind the closed doors of the industry. The animals in these situations are treated as product, and are not given the consideration they deserve. Humane treatment and quality of life are not factors deemed worthy of attention. The situation at puppymills is very similar. The dogs are merely treated as money-making items.



3) The sales pitch, "AKC registered" has been used repeatedly by the puppymill/petshop industry and has duped the public into believing that if a dog bares the AKC registered title, it must be of quality. The fact of the matter is that the American Kennel Club (AKC) is merely a registering body. "Papers" on a dog mean that the animal is certifiably purebred. It does not guarentee anything else. There are no requirements necessary in order for a dog to be registered other than having AKC-registered parents. Health, temperment or where a dog came from have no bearing on the matter.



Why responsible breeders won't sell to pet shops:



Pretend for a moment that you are a responsible breeder. You love your dogs, and have spent a lifetime studying your breed, genetics, and health in order to become the best breeder you can be. Your only desire is to produce top-quality animals that are a tribute to their breed, and an improvement upon past generations. You are so well known that you need not even advertise. The quality of your dogs speaks for itself, and people routinely approach you for puppies. Money-making isn't the objective for you--in fact, you barely break even after you are done with genetic testing and health certifications, and pre- and post-natal puppy care. But none of that matters, as you aren't doing this for money, you are doing it for the love of your breed. Your pups are strong, healthy, and stable. Not just anyone can purchase one of your puppies--that is why you extensively screen each and every person who walks through the door looking to buy a puppy. As a responsible person who cares about the welfare of the dogs you produce, you want to be certain that every pup's new home will treat him or her humanely, lovingly, and responsibly. You want to protect your good name, so you offer lifetime guarentees on your puppies--if any genetic faults manifest themselves, you refund the owner's purchase price. Your guarentee also states that if at any time the owner of the puppy cannot or does not wish to keep the dog, you will take the dog back. You love your dogs, and want to make sure that each lives a long, healthy, full life, so you keep in contact with your buyers, offering them help and assitance along the way. You feel responsible for your dogs for their lives--whether they are living with you, or in the homes of those who have purchased from you.



So, ask yourself this question: why would you hand over your puppies to a petshop to sell? Why would you allow your beloved dogs to be sold indiscriminantly, to whoever walks through the door with a credit card? Why would you sell your dogs wholesale, when you barely break even selling them for retail yourself? Why would you even HAVE to rely on a pet shop to sell your puppies when people are knocking down your door to purchase one of your well-bred animals? The answer to all these questions is this: if you are a responsible breeder producing healthy, sound dogs, YOU WOULDN'T.



The very nature of responsible dog breeding prevents any significant amount of money from being made. Dog breeding should not be a business, and responsible breeders know this. In order for people to make money wholesaling their dogs to pet shops, they would have to a) stop spending the large amount of money necessary to test for debilitating genetic diseases, and b) start cranking out a heck of a lot more puppies in order to meet the demands of the petshop. They'd also have to begin breeding more than one breed of dog, and stop spending money on dog sporting activities and dog shows which help determine quality of animals. In essence, they'd have to begin breeding indescriminantly. The dogs would have to be turned into profit-making items. The adage, "You have to spend money to make money" doesn't apply to indescriminant breeders and puppymillers--for these types, the idea is to spend as little on the dogs as possible in an effort to bring in a larger profit.



Back to the pet shops, and their claims:



Still don't believe that the dogs from pet shops come from mills? Press the issue with a pet shop manager. Find out the name of the wholesaler that the shop obtains it's puppies from. Check the information obtained by going to the USDA site (link here) and see if you can match the name the pet shop gave you with one of the licensed dealers listed on the USDA site. If the name is missing, it probably means that the puppies were purchased from a non-licensed mill, or directly from a broker who acts as a middleman.



If you inquire about the supplier of the puppies in shops, you will hear a lot of double-talk, repeated phrases such as, "No, all our dogs come from breeders!" (which, if you think about it, isn't actually a lie--a breeder is merely someone who produces animals), and "Our puppies are guarenteed!". Ask what sort of genetic testing has been done on the parents to help ensure that the puppies will grow into healthy adults. What you'll hear is, "All of our puppies have been vet-checked." No proof of genetic health of parents will be offered, no assurances that the puppies are from healthy stock. "Vet-checked" means nothing more than that the animal showed no overt signs of illness at the time of examination.



Oh, but the shop guareentees the puppies, do they? Ask to examine the guarentee. You will most likely see many loopholes, and the guarentee probably extends no more than a year. This is no accident or coincodence. Most genetic illnesses crop up after two years of age, well after some pet shop guarentee has expired.



One well known national pet shop chain boasts, "We are breeders representatives!". The breeders they are actually representing are from commercial breeders/dealers, some notorious ones, such as The Hunte Corporation (bda Honey-Dew Kennel and Sundowner) who supplies Boxers and Siberian Huskies, among other breeds, to this chain as well as the chain mentioned in the above link. This particular chain keeps collars on all their puppies, with names of the places the animals were bred at. Don't ever take the claim of pet shops on face-value. Investigate, question, and persist--what you uncover may shock and appall you.



Every time you purchase something from a pet shop that sells puppies, you support a dispicable industry. Support pet shops that do no sell dogs, and send a message to the puppymill-supporting pet shops--you will NOT patronize any shop that encourages the inhumane practice of puppymilling or indescriminant breeding and selling of dogs.





Petshop puppies can be very unhealthy:



Often times, the puppies that are bought from pet shops develop debilitating diseases, temperment problems, and other ailments. The reason these puppies so often end up sickly and mentally disturbed is that no screening of breeding stock is done-sick, unsound, unstable dogs are bred to produce more ailments in the next generation; also, puppies born in mills and then transferred over to petshops do not receive the proper early socialization which may result in behavioral problems later in life. Click here to read some case histories.



The public should be outraged! They are being duped and swindled into believing that the animals they purchase from pet shops come from good breeders and healthy parents. There is an incredibly large number of case histories of people who have purchased sick and tempermentally unsound dogs from these places. It's time for the lid to be blown off this industry.
 
'NutterButter said:
Why should you avoid a pet store dog anyway? If for some reason, I see a pet store dog and I like it, why shouldn't I buy it?
I guess its possible that you don't know this and that you're not just fishing, but pet stores get supplied by puppy mills. Just google puppy mills and look at the pics. I've seen it first hand out in PA. I'll never get the site and smell out of my mind.
And that is the fault of the puppy how exactly? I seriously doubt all pet stores are provided by puppy mills. There are reputable breeders and stores in the world.Granted, I wish all puppy mills were shut down, but the dogs deserve a good home no matter where they were born, no?
 
'prosopis said:
'Chadstroma said:
'bueno said:
'Chadstroma said:
'bueno said:
'Chadstroma said:
'bueno said:
'cubd8 said:
I'd recommend a puggle, mine is more pug than beagle, but he is very friendly, loves to play ball, etc, howl's like a beagle, has a major passion for food (and playing ball), sleeps under the covers, seems to have learned quite a bit of words that I use....he's now a good friend. :thumbup:
I never get this. Somebody has a mutt so they create a name for him like it's a new breed for something. Puggle, Labradoddle, Terripoo, WTF? A mongrel by any other name can be sold for more money or something?
At some point every breed was a mongrel. It took people to breed them for different reasons and define what the characteristics of the 'pure' breed was to make a breed. It is the same thing that we have been doing ever since the first wolves were adopted into the human pack but it is taking already defined breeds and combining them. Why not combine the names if you are combining the breeds?
I believe they do it so it sounds more snobby and they can sell the mutt for more money.
:shrug: I got my Goldendoodle at a shelter and paid a small adoption fee that would have been paid for any other dog. I had a Golden Retriever when I was young and never liked the dog that much (it was my fathers dog) but I love this dog. Can't tell you how much of that is adding the Standard Poodle in with the Golden but I like the product. Plus, even though he does shed a bit it is much less than what a Golden Retriever would shed. In the end, it is just another kind (aka breed) of dog- just a little newer and bred from two existing well established breeds.
The pet store closest to me sells mutts like labradoddles for three times the "mutt" price. That's why I think it's a scam. I got my two black labs from a shelter for an adoption fee. Would buy in a pet store if the dog really grabbed me though. The English black lab female has a slight birth defect, the male is a blue heeler cross. It's funny having a dog that looks like a black lab that is afraid of water....
Simple supply and demand. They are cuter than your typical mutt and thus people are willing to pay more.
It is more then just cuter and it was not an accidental mutt like Bueno is saying. These dogs were cross bred to get the best genetic traits from the two breeds into one dog. A labradoodle has a lot of yellow lab but it wont shed which is a trait of the poodle. There is more but you can look it up if you want to.
I will grant that not all mutts are accidents. Some are bred to get traits of two breeds. Having said that, anything bred with a poodle does not fit my definition of cute.
 
I'm also in the midst of trying to get a dog from a shelter. The problem I am having is that I don't want a lab and that is pretty much all the shelters here have. Trying to find one that is at least half border collie.
Found a collie / shepard cross from the local shelter, about 4 weeks old. Get her next week :thumbup:
That dog is going to need a TON of exercise. I hope you are active, have a big yard and willing to spend the time with him or you run a ranch.
Winter will be tough (for me to walk her) but summer will be great. At the lake pretty much every weekend so I hope she likes to swim. And we've got a pretty big dog park close by.
Hopefully there is a large field nearby you that you could let her loose on. My Goldendoodle loves to run around in the snow (and dive in it, roll around in it, etc) so that can help with the exercise in the winter. If you have not had a Collie or even a Shepard before, they can get destructive if not given enough exercise because they get bored and are such high energy dogs.
Besides the big dog park, there is a school field about a block away. Exercise for the dog will be no problem. Me freezing my nads off will be.
This is why I own 8 acres in the country..... Doggie heaven on earth.
 
'NutterButter said:
Why should you avoid a pet store dog anyway? If for some reason, I see a pet store dog and I like it, why shouldn't I buy it?
I guess its possible that you don't know this and that you're not just fishing, but pet stores get supplied by puppy mills. Just google puppy mills and look at the pics. I've seen it first hand out in PA. I'll never get the site and smell out of my mind.
And that is the fault of the puppy how exactly? I seriously doubt all pet stores are provided by puppy mills. There are reputable breeders and stores in the world.Granted, I wish all puppy mills were shut down, but the dogs deserve a good home no matter where they were born, no?
By buying from the pet store you are creating demand for the puppy mills.
 
I will grant that not all mutts are accidents. Some are bred to get traits of two breeds. Having said that, anything bred with a poodle does not fit my definition of cute.
Odd thing is that the world is populated by a few more people than just you. And as I stated before, people go crazy over my dog- I have had women stop their cars and get out to see him, several people ask to take pictures of him, and countless people stop me to ask questions and gawk over him. And he is half Standard Poodle.ETA: I have also had friends say that their next dog will be a Goldendoodle because of him.
 
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I will grant that not all mutts are accidents. Some are bred to get traits of two breeds. Having said that, anything bred with a poodle does not fit my definition of cute.
Odd thing is that the world is populated by a few more people than just you. And as I stated before, people go crazy over my dog- I have had women stop their cars and get out to see him, several people ask to take pictures of him, and countless people stop me to ask questions and gawk over him. And he is half Standard Poodle.ETA: I have also had friends say that their next dog will be a Goldendoodle because of him.
That's cool. I just don't like poodles.
 
'NutterButter said:
Why should you avoid a pet store dog anyway? If for some reason, I see a pet store dog and I like it, why shouldn't I buy it?
I guess its possible that you don't know this and that you're not just fishing, but pet stores get supplied by puppy mills. Just google puppy mills and look at the pics. I've seen it first hand out in PA. I'll never get the site and smell out of my mind.
And that is the fault of the puppy how exactly? I seriously doubt all pet stores are provided by puppy mills. There are reputable breeders and stores in the world.Granted, I wish all puppy mills were shut down, but the dogs deserve a good home no matter where they were born, no?
By buying from the pet store you are creating demand for the puppy mills.
What do you think happens to pet store dogs that aren't bought?
 
'NutterButter said:
Why should you avoid a pet store dog anyway? If for some reason, I see a pet store dog and I like it, why shouldn't I buy it?
I guess its possible that you don't know this and that you're not just fishing, but pet stores get supplied by puppy mills. Just google puppy mills and look at the pics. I've seen it first hand out in PA. I'll never get the site and smell out of my mind.
And that is the fault of the puppy how exactly? I seriously doubt all pet stores are provided by puppy mills. There are reputable breeders and stores in the world.Granted, I wish all puppy mills were shut down, but the dogs deserve a good home no matter where they were born, no?
By buying from the pet store you are creating demand for the puppy mills.
What do you think happens to pet store dogs that aren't bought?
Ideally, the stores realize they can't sell them, turn them into a shelter where they're adopted out. More realistically, they're euthanisized humanely and then the nightmare ends there rather then continuing. What you don't realize is the dogs you see in the pet store are the minority that actually survive the atrocious conditions. Many never make it out of the mills b/c like any good bean counter, they came to the realization a long time ago that its much more cost effective to just provide terrible conditions for all the dogs and just sell the one's that actually survive then it is to provide quality care to all the dogs. Naturally, you feel for the dogs in the pet stores, but the fact of the matter is that we euthanize somewhere around 3-4M dogs per year. Some objectivity is necessary in order to focus on the main goal which is shutting down the mills and at least ending that atrocity. The dog/cat overpopulation is a much bigger problem, but at least there's some humanity in how its currently dealt with.
 
You buy from a breeder or you get from a shelter/rescue. What you don't do is buy one out of the paper or from a pet store.There are plenty of good breeders and you'll know it's not a puppy mill by going there. The best ones have only one or two studs, and 4-7 #####es. They will also have an established history, a paper trail and they'll ask you a lot of questions because they want their dogs going to good homes. IMO if you go this route you will have to pay north of $500 for a dog. You should not be buying a good papered/bred dog for much less than that, anything in the $200 range is someone trying to make a profit or selling flawed animals. :2cents:There are exceptions to that before people want to jump down my throat, but for me this is the general rule. I paid $500 for my one dog 12 years ago and it's the best $500 I've ever spent. My other dog is a rescue and I will rotate the way I acquire dogs from now on going to a breeder, then to a rescue. If I wanted a lab, I'd probably rescue one because they are a common breed. I think breeding farms are for less popular breeds or for breeds with inherent genetic problems. I know labs have hip issues so that might be one reason to get from a breeder, but a rescue might be better suited and might make a better pet. Now if you wanted it for hunting, breeder.
:goodposting: I hate it when people act like buying from a reputable breeder is bad.Some people want to raise the dog from a young puppy and like a specific breed. You're gonna have the dog for 8+ years, buying from a reputable breeder where you know the bloodlines will increase the chances it's healthy and has a longer life span.
 
'NutterButter said:
Why should you avoid a pet store dog anyway? If for some reason, I see a pet store dog and I like it, why shouldn't I buy it?
I guess its possible that you don't know this and that you're not just fishing, but pet stores get supplied by puppy mills. Just google puppy mills and look at the pics. I've seen it first hand out in PA. I'll never get the site and smell out of my mind.
And that is the fault of the puppy how exactly? I seriously doubt all pet stores are provided by puppy mills. There are reputable breeders and stores in the world.Granted, I wish all puppy mills were shut down, but the dogs deserve a good home no matter where they were born, no?
By buying from the pet store you are creating demand for the puppy mills.
What do you think happens to pet store dogs that aren't bought?
Ideally, the stores realize they can't sell them, turn them into a shelter where they're adopted out. More realistically, they're euthanisized humanely and then the nightmare ends there rather then continuing. What you don't realize is the dogs you see in the pet store are the minority that actually survive the atrocious conditions. Many never make it out of the mills b/c like any good bean counter, they came to the realization a long time ago that its much more cost effective to just provide terrible conditions for all the dogs and just sell the one's that actually survive then it is to provide quality care to all the dogs. Naturally, you feel for the dogs in the pet stores, but the fact of the matter is that we euthanize somewhere around 3-4M dogs per year. Some objectivity is necessary in order to focus on the main goal which is shutting down the mills and at least ending that atrocity. The dog/cat overpopulation is a much bigger problem, but at least there's some humanity in how its currently dealt with.
You have statistics on death rates in puppy farms from a credible source?
 
So I need a new dog. Would like a white/yellow lab again, but not 100 decided. The problem is this.... I know I'm not supposed to go to a breeder so I have been to the local shelter about 5 times over the past 2 months. 90% of the dogs are pits. I'm in the pits are good dogs camp, but I'm just not looking for a muscle bound clumsy dog with a tail from hell. (Ive had them in the past). All the other dogs have something else wrong or don't fit our family. Either the dog hates kids, or is great with kids, but hates other dogs or some other random reason they aren't a good fit. If there is a good dog, they are all signed up and gone unless you camp out at the shelter. Am a scoundrel for not adopting? If I do go to a breeder, how do I know they aren't puppy mills? Do I have to pay $2,000+ for a lab who wont be crippled by 5?
Where do you live?
Silver Spring, Maryland
Got our Chocolate from someone in the community who recently had a litter of 11 AKC Chocolate Labs. $200 later, got our pup Rooney and he's been awesome so far! 1 yr old.
eleven?
 
I'd ask around at somewhere hunters hang out. Outdoorsman seem to love labs and probably know exactly where to get a good one.

Whether ya go in a pet store or to someone's house or over the web or...talk to the owner on the phone. A good breeder adores their dogs and it'll be so obvious to you. A mill couldn't care less about the product moving off the shelf. You'll hear the adoration in their voice or that they dress the puppy up in clothes(ugh) or that it only eats this $10,000 a bag dog food or...it'll stand out to you who a good breeder is.

 
that pet store puppy mill thing isn't absolute. Nothing is anymore with puppies.

I've got a 15year old pug that we got from a pet store. It was one of those small world things. Hunted down a breeder with a friend of a friend of a friend and the old lady had decided she couldn't deal with it all anymore so this was her last breed and she sold them to a pet store hundreds of miles north which happened to be nearby. Anyhow, he's lived nearly twice the average life of a pug and been a great dog.

We had a great mutt. Every vet we ever took it to made some comment like some mutts make the best dogs, one even called it Heinz57 breed.

Like I typed before, get ahold of the breeder by phone and chat. Breeders names and numbers are all over the web. You'll be able to tell.

 
So I need a new dog. Would like a white/yellow lab again, but not 100 decided. The problem is this.... I know I'm not supposed to go to a breeder so I have been to the local shelter about 5 times over the past 2 months. 90% of the dogs are pits. I'm in the pits are good dogs camp, but I'm just not looking for a muscle bound clumsy dog with a tail from hell. (Ive had them in the past). All the other dogs have something else wrong or don't fit our family. Either the dog hates kids, or is great with kids, but hates other dogs or some other random reason they aren't a good fit. If there is a good dog, they are all signed up and gone unless you camp out at the shelter. Am a scoundrel for not adopting? If I do go to a breeder, how do I know they aren't puppy mills? Do I have to pay $2,000+ for a lab who wont be crippled by 5?
Where do you live?
Silver Spring, Maryland
Small world. Used to get to Silver Spring a lot as old company was headquartered there. Also interested in this thread as had to put my 16 year old lab down 4+ months ago, just getting to the point of wanting another dog, having to decide between shelter or not..
 
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im more of a cat guy.
SacrilegeFor the record, I DESPISE cats, or maybe I should say cat owners. Every freakin' house I go to, including my Brother in Law's for Thanksgiving, had that varmint walking on every counter, whiskers wherever food and drink are, etc. Disgusting animals.
 
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So I need a new dog. Would like a white/yellow lab again, but not 100 decided. The problem is this.... I know I'm not supposed to go to a breeder so I have been to the local shelter about 5 times over the past 2 months. 90% of the dogs are pits. I'm in the pits are good dogs camp, but I'm just not looking for a muscle bound clumsy dog with a tail from hell. (Ive had them in the past). All the other dogs have something else wrong or don't fit our family. Either the dog hates kids, or is great with kids, but hates other dogs or some other random reason they aren't a good fit. If there is a good dog, they are all signed up and gone unless you camp out at the shelter.

Am a scoundrel for not adopting? If I do go to a breeder, how do I know they aren't puppy mills? Do I have to pay $2,000+ for a lab who wont be crippled by 5?
Where do you live?
Silver Spring, Maryland
Small world. Used to get to Silver Spring a lot as old company was headquartered there. Also interested in this thread as had to put my 16 year old lab down 4+ months ago, just getting to the point of wanting another dog, having to decide between shelter or not..
I'll be honest, my local shelter was a pain in the ###. I guess they are doing the best they can, so :shrug:

Petfinder was a great idea. The whole adoption process seems ### backwards. These dogs need homes but they make it so difficult to adopt. Just one minor thing I experienced at my local shelter was when I wanted to put an application for a dog that already had 6 applications. The girl told me they weren't taking anymore. I come back a week later and the dog is still there. This time, with only 3 applicants. I put one in, but didn't get the dog. :loco: It can also be expensive. I'm paying $450 for a 6 y/o large breed dog. It isn't astronomical, but it's nothing to sneeze at either. I could just avoid all the fuss and go buy the exact dog I want, as a puppy, with ZERO hoops to jump through, AND pay nearly the same price.

I don't know if there is a better way, but some of it seems counterproductive.

 

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