IDP rankings (1 Viewer)

[sgtrobo]

The entire purpose of this is to check out the IDP ratings and if opinions differ drastically on a certain player, to ask "why". Maybe someone knows something the others don't, maybe someone's a hater, maybe it's just a standard difference of opinion or a "hunch".

Regardless, these are some of the guys who seemed to jump out at me.

DL

Justin Smith is ranked between 10-15 by 4 of 5, John has him ranked 38th. John, what are you seeing with Smith that has you dropping him so low?

Patrick Kerney - Anthony had him 23rd, he was 12, 14 and 15 with 3 others, but Jene didn't rank him. Jene, Kerney too old? Tapp going to take the crown on Seattle's line?

Tamba Hali - 2 dudes didn't rank him, the 2 that did had him 30 and 47, but Aaron, you have Hali ranked 19th. Gut feeling?

LB

No real glaring issues, John seemed pretty down on Jerod Mayo, DQJackson is everywhere from 3rd to 21st, Stephen Cooper is everywhere from 7th to 27th. I'm a bit curious as to why John and Aaron rate DeMarcus Ware so far beneath James Harrison. Now, I'm a Steelers fan, so perhaps I'm just being a bit too...."critical" of Silverback, but I just don't see that much of a difference in their abilities. Is that an indictment of the talent surrounding Ware and praise for the talent and scheme Harrison works with?

DB

Leigh Bodden - remember this guy? DB1 from 2007 using standard FBG scoring system? He wasn't ranked one single time.

Gibril Wilson and Yeremiah Bell both are rated very high. Where are all the tackle opportunities going to come from? Are Miami's LBs THAT bad?

Anthony and Gene have Richard Marshall at 2/6, Dave and Aaron have him at 24/28. Perhaps Dave and Aaron did their rankings a bit earlier than the others and they aren't seeing Marshall as the definite starter?

Other than that, it seems that a lot of the players are all pretty similar, ranking-wise, except John is so far off the "beaten path" on some of the DBs that I almost wonder if the scoring systems used were the same (Chris Horton, Kevin Payne, Quintin Mikell, Bob Snaders, Michael Lewis, Cortland Finnegan, for example)

Okay. that's it for now.

Again, not criticizing, not saying anyone is "wrong", just trying to point out some sizeable differences. Some of them are obvious and easy to understand (strong difference of opinion on Sean Jones, for example). The others I tried to bring up here and open for discussion.

 

[Jene Bramel]

We'll never take these questions as anything other than constructive criticism and it's not uncommon (for me anyway) to use these added pointed questions to consider things a different way and come to a different conclusion.

So, fire away.

With respect to Patrick Kerney, you have an aging player who's had two shoulder surgeries and an elbow surgery in the past year and is unlikely to be ready for training camp. I'm not convinced yet that he'll be healthy enough to take significant snaps early. I'd avoid him altogether unless I could get him as deep depth and I'd be approaching the season as if I won't have him if he's on my dynasty roster.

Tamba Hali is in limbo. We've decided to switch his position to LB in our database, so he's ranked by some as a DL and others not as a DL and maybe not as a LB. If you think he'll get every-down LB snaps and stay classified as a DL, then he probably belongs anywhere between 10 and 25 I think. But the defensive scheme and alignments are still so unsettled that it's hard to know what to do there.

I've decided that there are likely to be enough tackle opportunities to support three solid tacklers in Miami. I don't think Crowder gets well above 90 this season and Bell won't necessarily get 80+. But Bell can drop well over a tackle a game and still reach 75+. I'm not convinced Wilson will top 70, but I'd expect enough big plays to keep him relevant -- Kerry Rhodes type with a few more tackles. Waiting to hear what happens in minicamp before feeling confident on that call, though. For now, however, if you think Bell is a priority target, you'll have to go get him.

This season, given the relatively few clear sleeper targets and lack of clear upside across the board, you could rank any of probably 80 DBs in your top 50 and have a legitimate argument. This season, more than any other in recent memory, you can consider drafting one DB highly as a consistent anchor, then give yourself a deep list of guys with solid (DB2) but not great upside that aren't likely to drop too far out of the DB3 tier and throw a whole bunch of them on your roster. I'd could give a long argument pro and con DB2 upside DB4 floor for everyone of the players you listed above. If you identify something that you think puts one well ahead in that tier, go get him. For now, I just don't see a 2009 Yeremiah Bell, where it seems very clear that there's big potential with little downside.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

We'll never take these questions as anything other than constructive criticism and it's not uncommon (for me anyway) to use these added pointed questions to consider things a different way and come to a different conclusion.This season, given the relatively few clear sleeper targets and lack of clear upside across the board, you could rank any of probably 80 DBs in your top 50 and have a legitimate argument.

Ranking DBs is usually the toughest of all rankings, and this year, it's even tougher. If you look at all of the positions (both offense and IDPs), there is usually a consensus of sorts for a majority of the players. Then look at DB. The rankings among all of the staffers are all over the place, even near the top. Jene is correct; I could literally take out 20-30 DBs and replace them, and still be right. Instead of bucket-sized tiers, they are pool-sized this year.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

The entire purpose of this is to check out the IDP ratings and if opinions differ drastically on a certain player, to ask "why". Maybe someone knows something the others don't, maybe someone's a hater, maybe it's just a standard difference of opinion or a "hunch".

Regardless, these are some of the guys who seemed to jump out at me.

DL

Justin Smith is ranked between 10-15 by 4 of 5, John has him ranked 38th. John, what are you seeing with Smith that has you dropping him so low?

Patrick Kerney - Anthony had him 23rd, he was 12, 14 and 15 with 3 others, but Jene didn't rank him. Jene, Kerney too old? Tapp going to take the crown on Seattle's line?

Tamba Hali - 2 dudes didn't rank him, the 2 that did had him 30 and 47, but Aaron, you have Hali ranked 19th. Gut feeling?

LB

No real glaring issues, John seemed pretty down on Jerod Mayo, DQJackson is everywhere from 3rd to 21st, Stephen Cooper is everywhere from 7th to 27th. I'm a bit curious as to why John and Aaron rate DeMarcus Ware so far beneath James Harrison. Now, I'm a Steelers fan, so perhaps I'm just being a bit too...."critical" of Silverback, but I just don't see that much of a difference in their abilities. Is that an indictment of the talent surrounding Ware and praise for the talent and scheme Harrison works with?

DB

Leigh Bodden - remember this guy? DB1 from 2007 using standard FBG scoring system? He wasn't ranked one single time.

Gibril Wilson and Yeremiah Bell both are rated very high. Where are all the tackle opportunities going to come from? Are Miami's LBs THAT bad?

Anthony and Gene have Richard Marshall at 2/6, Dave and Aaron have him at 24/28. Perhaps Dave and Aaron did their rankings a bit earlier than the others and they aren't seeing Marshall as the definite starter?

Other than that, it seems that a lot of the players are all pretty similar, ranking-wise, except John is so far off the "beaten path" on some of the DBs that I almost wonder if the scoring systems used were the same (Chris Horton, Kevin Payne, Quintin Mikell, Bob Snaders, Michael Lewis, Cortland Finnegan, for example)

Okay. that's it for now. :X

Again, not criticizing, not saying anyone is "wrong", just trying to point out some sizeable differences. Some of them are obvious and easy to understand (strong difference of opinion on Sean Jones, for example). The others I tried to bring up here and open for discussion.

I agree with Jene in that these kind of questions are a good thing. Nobody can know everything and sometimes there can be things mentioned in a post like this that makes us look at things from a different perspective. As for some of the players mentioned:

As Jene mentioned, Hali is being tried at OLB and the ones who ranked him haven't changed their rankings since we changed his position to OLB in the database.

Kerney is tough to rank. I obviously think he could be effective, but the concern with his age and injuries is enough (at this time) to rank him higher. This is a good example of the volatility of early rankings. Kerney's ranking will be more accurate (as will others) when training camp starts and we see some preseason games.

The Harrison vs. Ware question for me comes down to consistent tackle numbers. Harrison is a rare 3-4 OLB that puts up 70 tackles or so consistently. Ware had never been over 60 until last year. He also had 20 sacks last year and I can't predict that again.

Bodden is one of many players that are very hard to rank. First, the Patriot corners usually do not put up huge tackle numbers. They also have a potent offense and their defense probably won't see as many opportunities as Bodden has seen in the past with the bad Cleveland and Detroit defense he played on.

Miami does not have great LBs. Crowder is decent, but both safeties should be solid, although I am going to take a deeper look at them. I probably have Wilson too high and Bell too low, but as with Kerney, I want to see how Miami uses them in preseason.

Richard Marshall put up huge tackle number in his first 2 seasons playing nickel back. He did not play well in general last year. I think he will be targeted a lot by opposing offenses and I expect big numbers from him. He is a player to target in drafts because he might be overlooked because of his subpar season last year.

The DBs in general are very hard to rank because there are more variables with them than any other position.

 

[sgtrobo]

ok, that makes a lot of sense for the most part

I'm drafting an IDP dynasty right now and have focused almost exclusively at LB and the DL for much of what you have stated. I don't see anyone who is just begging to be ranked high at the DB position, for the most part.

Regarding Bodden, NE has a powerful offense, but it's not so much a ball control offense with Brady in there, it's more a quick-strike. It would seem that a CB with Bodden's tackling ability might get into a situation where he HAS to make a lot of plays simply because opposing offenses have to pass when they're behind.

Besides, despite all that, Bodden STILL should make top 60, right? It just seems odd that he was completely left off everyone's view, is all I was wondering about. Does he seem like a solid lock for the starting CB?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Besides, despite all that, Bodden STILL should make top 60, right? It just seems odd that he was completely left off everyone's view, is all I was wondering about. Does he seem like a solid lock for the starting CB?

I know he was jerked around a little bit in Detroit last season, but that was a very favorable situation for a corner -- plenty of zone coverage, not much pass rush, a lot of inconsistency at safety, questionable range at MLB and SLB and his production was questionable. There'll be plenty of zone coverage in NE, but it's tough to count on upside for Bodden after last season. He's not the worst DB5 option in terms of upside, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with him as a top 50 DB right now.

 

[sgtrobo]

so are you seeing a significant drop in his numbers even from last year? He was ranked 19th in FBG scoring last year I think.

apparently you're not the only one that feels this way about him since everybody else left him off the rankings too.

 

[Jene Bramel]

so are you seeing a significant drop in his numbers even from last year? He was ranked 19th in FBG scoring last year I think.apparently you're not the only one that feels this way about him since everybody else left him off the rankings too.

He was the 19th ranked CB and 37th overall DB. I think the potential is there to fit in the top 50 again, but the list of guys below Bodden on last season's list that I'd rather have is much higher than the list of guys above that I'd rather have than him.Any drop from 61 solos and 11 passes defensed is going to be a big hit to his relative value. Again, though, there's a long list of guys with interesting potential this year. If you see a guy that you feel is undervalued, all the more reason to let the overvalued guys you see get drafted and get your guys later in the draft.

 

[-baller]

ok, that makes a lot of sense for the most partI'm drafting an IDP dynasty right now and have focused almost exclusively at LB and the DL for much of what you have stated. I don't see anyone who is just begging to be ranked high at the DB position, for the most part.Regarding Bodden, NE has a powerful offense, but it's not so much a ball control offense with Brady in there, it's more a quick-strike. It would seem that a CB with Bodden's tackling ability might get into a situation where he HAS to make a lot of plays simply because opposing offenses have to pass when they're behind.Besides, despite all that, Bodden STILL should make top 60, right? It just seems odd that he was completely left off everyone's view, is all I was wondering about. Does he seem like a solid lock for the starting CB?

I don't think at this point in the season you could call him a solid lock for anything.they've done pretty well at stocking the secondary and these gys are all going to compete for spots.I'd at least wait 'til we get closer to the first week before you try to guess on bodden, but I actually like his upside, right now, since he's probably dirt cheap.funny that I should be replyig to a steelers fan because I came into the thread to ask about timmons.I thought he'd be a little bit more of a hot property than he seems to be from the rankings?am I overestimating him?

 

[Jene Bramel]

All staffers have now added rankings this week. Plenty of consensus picks and pans. Plenty of outliers.

I've also begun piggy-backing on Bloom's mouse-over comments (blue numbers on the rank lists). Bloom has added his to the DB ranks and I'm working through the LB and DB lists today. Feel free to ask for some added blue flavor on any of the rankings I miss on the first pass.

 

[chook]

All staffers have now added rankings this week. Plenty of consensus picks and pans. Plenty of outliers.

I've also begun piggy-backing on Bloom's mouse-over comments (blue numbers on the rank lists). Bloom has added his to the DB ranks and I'm working through the LB and DB lists today. Feel free to ask for some added blue flavor on any of the rankings I miss on the first pass.

FYI, your 'blue' numbers for Richard Marshall & William Moore don't actually have commentary attached Jene.Appreciate the Bell commentary. Have been stressing about whether or not to get rid of him after reading Sig's view.... now at least I'm slightly in between for the time being.

 

[Beefeaters]

What's with the DJ Williams rankings?

Dynasty Linebacker rankings past 35 days

11 OLB D.J. Williams, DEN

Pasquino ranked him 35

Norton ranked him 5

Bramel ranked him 4

Bloom ranked him 12

Borberly ranked him 7

From 4 to 35; that warrants a bit more of an explanation than the numbers can show us. Pasquino is your ranking based solely on his recovery from multiple injuries so far? Do you know something about that recovery process? Or is your outlying ranking based upon seomthing else? Please elaborate. Thanks!

 

[duece2626]

What's with the DJ Williams rankings?

Dynasty Linebacker rankings past 35 days

11 OLB D.J. Williams, DEN

Pasquino ranked him 35

Norton ranked him 5

Bramel ranked him 4

Bloom ranked him 12

Borberly ranked him 7

From 4 to 35; that warrants a bit more of an explanation than the numbers can show us. Pasquino is your ranking based solely on his recovery from multiple injuries so far? Do you know something about that recovery process? Or is your outlying ranking based upon seomthing else? Please elaborate. Thanks!

I just omit JP's rankings and go with the rest.

 

[Beefeaters]

What's with the DJ Williams rankings?

Dynasty Linebacker rankings past 35 days

11 OLB D.J. Williams, DEN

Pasquino ranked him 35

Norton ranked him 5

Bramel ranked him 4

Bloom ranked him 12

Borberly ranked him 7

From 4 to 35; that warrants a bit more of an explanation than the numbers can show us. Pasquino is your ranking based solely on his recovery from multiple injuries so far? Do you know something about that recovery process? Or is your outlying ranking based upon seomthing else? Please elaborate. Thanks!

I just omit JP's rankings and go with the rest.

Sure I get that, but I was just wondering if there was a solid reason behind it... if he had some information that the others did not.

 

[bigern1000]

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but what's the general consensus on the G-Men's Webster and Thomas...? I'm doing my first IDP league this season and picked them off the FA pool (Zealots) when taking over a team to fill some roster spots. Noticed neither are in the rankings at this point, just trying to get a feel. Thanks...!

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

What's with the DJ Williams rankings?

Dynasty Linebacker rankings past 35 days

11 OLB D.J. Williams, DEN

Pasquino ranked him 35

Norton ranked him 5

Bramel ranked him 4

Bloom ranked him 12

Borberly ranked him 7

From 4 to 35; that warrants a bit more of an explanation than the numbers can show us. Pasquino is your ranking based solely on his recovery from multiple injuries so far? Do you know something about that recovery process? Or is your outlying ranking based upon seomthing else? Please elaborate. Thanks!

Sorry, didn't know a question was posed to me here. Been doing comments on offense of late.DJ Williams is not, IMHO, a long term value. He's the Paris Lenon of Denver - a stopgap filler tackler with no standout characteristics. When I watch Denver I don't see him making plays, but rather having tackles fall in his lap more often than not. He's not a big time LB1 for the long term and those counting on that are likely to be disappointed.

Should owners have him I'd look to trade for another LB1 while his value is high.