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If Oakland could go back in time and redraft... (1 Viewer)

-primetime-

-primetime-

Footballguy
I just heard that Jamarcus is about ready to sign and it had me thinking...

If the Raiders could go back and do the draft over knowing what they know now who would they take?

they have Lamont Jordan and Rhodes as a back up but they clearly are not that great, back up material at best, and Jordan will most likely not be a Raider next year...so I don't think taking AP here would be out of the question...

or take the best player in the draft....Calvin....seems simple and obvious enough

or trade down because having the #1 overall pick just sucks to begin with?

Parcells always used to say that he would never want a top 5 pick in the draft due to the fact that you have to pay such a ridiculous salary to a player that has yet to prove himself...

anyway...your thoughts?

 
at the end of last season:

can Al Davis

keep Randy Moss

draft Calvin Johnson

grab C-Pep as a free agent (reuniting C-Pep/Moss)

sign Asante Samuel

pay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)

I'd say C-Pep/Turner/Moss/Johnson coupled with their defense would make the beginning of a good squad. next year, focus on the o-line and say hello to the playoffs.

 
Anonymous Internet User said:
at the end of last season:can Al Daviskeep Randy Mossdraft Calvin Johnsongrab C-Pep as a free agent (reuniting C-Pep/Moss)sign Asante Samuelpay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)I'd say C-Pep/Turner/Moss/Johnson coupled with their defense would make the beginning of a good squad. next year, focus on the o-line and say hello to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
If you spent your first rounder on Calvin, how do you give a 1st and 3rd to SD? Or are you talking this year's 3rd and next years 1st?
 
Anonymous Internet User said:
at the end of last season:can Al Daviskeep Randy Mossdraft Calvin Johnsongrab C-Pep as a free agent (reuniting C-Pep/Moss)sign Asante Samuelpay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)I'd say C-Pep/Turner/Moss/Johnson coupled with their defense would make the beginning of a good squad. next year, focus on the o-line and say hello to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
you realize they give up 3 first rounders and a third in geting samuel and turner... plus they grab Culpepper as a free agent when he wasnt one (didnt become free untl July)They also should have traded for Julius Peppers, Champ Bailey, Shawn Andrews, and hired Belicheck as coach
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Anonymous Internet User said:
at the end of last season:can Al Daviskeep Randy Mossdraft Calvin Johnsongrab C-Pep as a free agent (reuniting C-Pep/Moss)sign Asante Samuelpay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)I'd say C-Pep/Turner/Moss/Johnson coupled with their defense would make the beginning of a good squad. next year, focus on the o-line and say hello to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
If you spent your first rounder on Calvin, how do you give a 1st and 3rd to SD? Or are you talking this year's 3rd and next years 1st?
Click to expand...
Calvin Johnson with Culpepper,Porter,Curry + Jordan would have been sweet.I think Russell is going to be a bust.
 
QB was there most pressing need. Walter is awful. You don't turn down the prospect of a franchise QB.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I don't blame the pick.

 
Russell is such an idiot. He's raw, so he needs as many reps and as much time learning the NFL as possible. He's now pretty much killed any possibility of actually playing this year barring a crisis, even if he signed now.

He could have come in, asserted leadership, and let the money situation take care of itself. Instead he looks like some idiot lottery winner who is completely disconnected from how money is actually made other than being fortunate enough to hold that winning lottery ticket.

 
Anonymous Internet User said:
pay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)
Click to expand...
If only the Raiders had thought to pay big money for another team's backup RB the whole league was excited about!Oh, wait.
 
-primetime- said:
I just heard that Jamarcus is about ready to sign and it had me thinking...If the Raiders could go back and do the draft over knowing what they know now who would they take?they have Lamont Jordan and Rhodes as a back up but they clearly are not that great, back up material at best, and Jordan will most likely not be a Raider next year...so I don't think taking AP here would be out of the question...or take the best player in the draft....Calvin....seems simple and obvious enoughor trade down because having the #1 overall pick just sucks to begin with?Parcells always used to say that he would never want a top 5 pick in the draft due to the fact that you have to pay such a ridiculous salary to a player that has yet to prove himself...anyway...your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Where did you hear that Jamarcus is about ready to sign?! As a hard core Raider fan, I would've preferred they traded down just a few spots. But, after seeing that they cut their first pick in the 3rd round (Q. Moses) I don't have a lot of faith that they would have made the right picks even if they had traded down. I'm pretty pessimistic though, especially after the last 4 seasons. :bag:
 
redman said:
Russell is such an idiot. He's raw, so he needs as many reps and as much time learning the NFL as possible. He's now pretty much killed any possibility of actually playing this year barring a crisis, even if he signed now. He could have come in, asserted leadership, and let the money situation take care of itself. Instead he looks like some idiot lottery winner who is completely disconnected from how money is actually made other than being fortunate enough to hold that winning lottery ticket.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I think a few of these agents and their rookie QB's don't want to play in Year 1. Think about it. You basically get paid a huge sum of money to hold a clipboard and ease your way into the NFL. No pressure and no getting sacked behind an awful O-line. Just take it easy and learn the ropes until Year 2. It seems like a good plan to me.
 
maul52 said:
-primetime- said:
I just heard that Jamarcus is about ready to sign and it had me thinking...

If the Raiders could go back and do the draft over knowing what they know now who would they take?

they have Lamont Jordan and Rhodes as a back up but they clearly are not that great, back up material at best, and Jordan will most likely not be a Raider next year...so I don't think taking AP here would be out of the question...

or take the best player in the draft....Calvin....seems simple and obvious enough

or trade down because having the #1 overall pick just sucks to begin with?

Parcells always used to say that he would never want a top 5 pick in the draft due to the fact that you have to pay such a ridiculous salary to a player that has yet to prove himself...

anyway...your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Where did you hear that Jamarcus is about ready to sign?! As a hard core Raider fan, I would've preferred they traded down just a few spots. But, after seeing that they cut their first pick in the 3rd round (Q. Moses) I don't have a lot of faith that they would have made the right picks even if they had traded down. I'm pretty pessimistic though, especially after the last 4 seasons. :bag:
Click to expand...
this morning on Dallas radio they stated that Jamarcus is rumored to sign some time this week...so it is just a rumor....but I heard the same rumor about Larry Johnson and that turned out to be correct

 
Russell = A poor man's Akili Smith

Bust-a-rooni, inflated off tearing apart a grossly overrated Notre Dame team, I don't blame him for trying to make all the money he can in this deal, because he'll be playing for the minimum if there is a next one.

 
Russell was considered the #1 QB and a high first-rounder long before bowl season started. He could be a flop of course, but he has all the tools you could want in a QB.

 
CalBear said:
Anonymous Internet User said:
pay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)
Click to expand...
If only the Raiders had thought to pay big money for another team's backup RB the whole league was excited about!Oh, wait.
Click to expand...
while people thought LaMont Jordan was a capable backup, his regard coming out in 2004 was nowhere near Michael Turner going into 2007.as for giving up first rounders: so what?! how many first rounds end up as busts? (half?) i'd gladly give up my first rounder for a play-maker and a difference-maker who has proven he can perform on the NFL level rather than take an unknown hoping i might get someone equivalent, all the while paying him twice as much.
 
redman said:
Russell is such an idiot. He's raw, so he needs as many reps and as much time learning the NFL as possible. He's now pretty much killed any possibility of actually playing this year barring a crisis, even if he signed now.
Click to expand...
Wait, you're contradicting yourself. You say that Russell killed any possibility of actually playing this year, but you also say he's an idiot. Which one is it? :hophead:
 
redman said:
Russell is such an idiot. He's raw, so he needs as many reps and as much time learning the NFL as possible. He's now pretty much killed any possibility of actually playing this year barring a crisis, even if he signed now. He could have come in, asserted leadership, and let the money situation take care of itself. Instead he looks like some idiot lottery winner who is completely disconnected from how money is actually made other than being fortunate enough to hold that winning lottery ticket.
Click to expand...
I don't fault him for trying to squeeze every ounce of money out of this system that he can. After all, the college system does not play its players (and don't try to tell me the cost of the college education is the payment, its not). He put in service time in the NFL's minor leagues without pay, and now should reap the reward, regardless of whether or not he amounts to anything at the pro level.
 
Going back to last years draft...they should have taken M. Leinart and then CJ in the first round this year. Then built there OL up through free agency.

 
TwinTurbo said:
redman said:
Russell is such an idiot. He's raw, so he needs as many reps and as much time learning the NFL as possible. He's now pretty much killed any possibility of actually playing this year barring a crisis, even if he signed now. He could have come in, asserted leadership, and let the money situation take care of itself. Instead he looks like some idiot lottery winner who is completely disconnected from how money is actually made other than being fortunate enough to hold that winning lottery ticket.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I think a few of these agents and their rookie QB's don't want to play in Year 1. Think about it. You basically get paid a huge sum of money to hold a clipboard and ease your way into the NFL. No pressure and no getting sacked behind an awful O-line. Just take it easy and learn the ropes until Year 2. It seems like a good plan to me.
Click to expand...
This would be a good plan for you and me. NFL players, even rookies want to play. Especially players who were studs in high school and college, which is just about every NFL player. You and I would be happy to hold a clipboard and get big bucks. J Russell won't be.
 
I think Russell will be a bust as well. People drool over size and speed entirely too much over intelligence and grit. Even if the Raiders weren't willing to give him more guaranteed money than the best player in the league (LT) Russell should've come into camp and done everything he could to get his teammates behind him. Oh well, the Raiders will eventually have to cut their losses and realize they passed up Calvin Johnson for a homeless man's Daunte Culpepper.

 
RebelINS said:
I think Russell will be a bust as well. People drool over size and speed entirely too much over intelligence and grit. Even if the Raiders weren't willing to give him more guaranteed money than the best player in the league (LT) Russell should've come into camp and done everything he could to get his teammates behind him. Oh well, the Raiders will eventually have to cut their losses and realize they passed up Calvin Johnson for a homeless man's Daunte Culpepper.
Click to expand...
Calvin Johnson, who didn't manage to beat out Mike Furrey for a starting job in training camp?
 
Anonymous Internet User said:
at the end of last season:can Al Daviskeep Randy Mossdraft Calvin Johnsongrab C-Pep as a free agent (reuniting C-Pep/Moss)sign Asante Samuelpay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)I'd say C-Pep/Turner/Moss/Johnson coupled with their defense would make the beginning of a good squad. next year, focus on the o-line and say hello to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
I'm so glad they didn't do this... Talk about salary cap hell. And as good as he is, the Raiders don't need Asante Samuel.As for the draft pick, it's easier to build a franchise around a great QB than a great WR. Calvin Johnson will probably play in many probowls and will be an amazing receiver but great QBs are more likely to make poor receivers look good while it's much harder for great receivers to make poor QBs look good... So, the upside of a great QB is better than the upside of a great WR. Russell was the right pick. You roll the dice with the QB that appears to have all the right tools. I think the Raiders are on the verge of being a very good team where I can't say the same thing about the Lions...
 
RebelINS said:
I think Russell will be a bust as well. People drool over size and speed entirely too much over intelligence and grit. Even if the Raiders weren't willing to give him more guaranteed money than the best player in the league (LT) Russell should've come into camp and done everything he could to get his teammates behind him. Oh well, the Raiders will eventually have to cut their losses and realize they passed up Calvin Johnson for a homeless man's Daunte Culpepper.
Click to expand...
Russell's teammates are behind him. Porter has already raved about his arm and accuracy. The team was highly impressed with him in early training camp. But they all understand he's probably better off sitting on the bench year one. And Russell has tons of intelligence and grit. Sounds like you didn't pay much attention to his college career. I'd like to see him signed but I'm not ready to sound the alarm until I get a chance to see him on the field in the NFL.
 
No matter who they picked they would still be unsigned since the Raiders don't want to pay the price of a 1st round pick

 
SSOG said:
redman said:
Russell is such an idiot. He's raw, so he needs as many reps and as much time learning the NFL as possible. He's now pretty much killed any possibility of actually playing this year barring a crisis, even if he signed now.
Click to expand...
Wait, you're contradicting yourself. You say that Russell killed any possibility of actually playing this year, but you also say he's an idiot. Which one is it? :kicksrock:
Click to expand...
I don't think you skewered me the way you hoped you would. :) indeed.
 
BGP said:
redman said:
Russell is such an idiot. He's raw, so he needs as many reps and as much time learning the NFL as possible. He's now pretty much killed any possibility of actually playing this year barring a crisis, even if he signed now.

He could have come in, asserted leadership, and let the money situation take care of itself. Instead he looks like some idiot lottery winner who is completely disconnected from how money is actually made other than being fortunate enough to hold that winning lottery ticket.
Click to expand...
I don't fault him for trying to squeeze every ounce of money out of this system that he can. After all, the college system does not play its players (and don't try to tell me the cost of the college education is the payment, its not). He put in service time in the NFL's minor leagues without pay, and now should reap the reward, regardless of whether or not he amounts to anything at the pro level.
Click to expand...
He's paid on his initial contract either way, and honestly the difference between what rookies would get and what he will get if they hold out is extremely minor. To me, you report to camp to set yourself up for your second contract. Get off on the right foot, learn about life in the NFL, get the offense down, show that you're a leader and a good teammate, etc. Honestly, you're going to be rich anyway - who cares if the last million $$ is deferred?
 
strong said:
Anonymous Internet User said:
at the end of last season:

can Al Davis

keep Randy Moss

draft Calvin Johnson

grab C-Pep as a free agent (reuniting C-Pep/Moss)

sign Asante Samuel

pay the big money to get Michael Turner from SD at the cost of a first and third rounder (nowadays, that's a bargain. no worrying about exorbitant first rounder money and you get a top notch back, no questions asked)

I'd say C-Pep/Turner/Moss/Johnson coupled with their defense would make the beginning of a good squad. next year, focus on the o-line and say hello to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
I'm so glad they didn't do this... Talk about salary cap hell. And as good as he is, the Raiders don't need Asante Samuel.As for the draft pick, it's easier to build a franchise around a great QB than a great WR.

Calvin Johnson will probably play in many probowls and will be an amazing receiver but great QBs are more likely to make poor receivers look good while it's much harder for great receivers to make poor QBs look good... So, the upside of a great QB is better than the upside of a great WR.

Russell was the right pick. You roll the dice with the QB that appears to have all the right tools.

I think the Raiders are on the verge of being a very good team where I can't say the same thing about the Lions...
Click to expand...
Ironic that people point to Culpepper as a big example of that.
 
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