If the Jets beat the Patriots... (1 Viewer)

[Rovers]

I wouldn't be too worried about the Jets winning that game. Only two of their last twelve opponents have winning records, causing me to think their record might be a bit overinflated.

I'm not saying they don't deserve to be there because they do, but the level of competition they have faced in recent weeks doesn't exactly prepare someone for the postseason.

Among the two opponents with winning records was the Patriots, whom the Jets beat in Foxboro. All of this talk about point differentials and turnover margins and records in the playoffs or on artificial turf is all nonsense. If the Jets score more points than the Pats, the Jets win, no matter how many Superbowl rings Tom Brady has, or how fast the express bus that BB is riding to Canton goes. And if the Pats score more points than the Jets, the 20-17 loss they took in Foxboro won't knock them out of the playoffs, nor will Mangini's intimate knowledge of the Pats personnel and playbook.

SO which team will score more points? I think we have to agree that it's a tough one. New England has a terrific running game, and the Jets have been vulnerable to the run all season - they even gave Justin Fargas his best day of the '06 season last week. The Jets are also down their top corner, though one could argue that it hardly takes a top corner to cover the likes of Reche Caldwell.

I think that for the Jets to win they will need to perfectly execute the dink-and-dunk followed by the over-the-top completion. BB will look to confuse Pennington and goad him into throwing it down the field into coverage by disguising coverages as blitzes and blitzes as coverages. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if the Jets came out throwing deep to start the game, looking to pick on the absence of Harrison in the secondary, and seeking to surprise the Pats, who are liekly preparing for a different style of offense.

I don't disagree with the beginning of your post but ya gotta admit that their playoff experience is a large edge. Sometimes that's nothing but other times the experienced team comes out "calm cool and collected" and just rolls along. I'm not making it out to be a sure win, I do agree with the sentiment of your post

Though the Pats have more playoff experience, the Jets have some too. Among the offensive starters, Kendall, Moore, Pennington, Coles, Baker and Cotcherry have been to the playoffs and played at least two games. On defense, Von Oelhoffen, Robertson, Ellis, Thomas, Vilma, Hobson, Barton, Barrett, and Coleman have all been to the playoffs too. That's a majority of both starting units, and the entire front seven on defense. Maybe if this was the AFC championship the inexperience would be a greater factor, but lots of these guys have played and won a wildcard game.

That's good posting...the pressure is completely off the Jets at this point and, in my opinion, completely on the Pats. No one or at least not many people would have picked the Jets to win more than 8 games let alone make the playoffs, so everything is on the Pats to put forth the superior effort. Thankfully, as "a classless, home-wrecking New England Fan", I believe that the Pats have enough to overcome this pressure. However it goes, here's to a great Sunday matchup:

Edit for profanity...sorry

I did say "some"..... don't take it personally! There are classless Jets fans too. But, it's gettin dicey now, isn't it? But, it does seem that Pat fans do have a higher propensity to start cursing before most other fans!

 

[Bri]

But, it does seem that Pat fans do have a higher propensity to start cursing before most other fans!

Have you seen the Pats WRs? Have you seen a game where a DB didn't get hurt? Have you noticed Watson's week to week stats?Pats fans do not!This is :X

 

[harryhood]

I think we are seeing an upset in the making. I think the Jets come in and do exactly the same thing, and win this thing by around 6. They will get to brady, the defense has done a complete 180 since the first half of the season.

Other than the stinker they put up against the bills, their defense has been stout recently. Granted they did play a weak schedule, ill admit that, but when you start to roll, good things happen. They rattled Brady before and they will do it again. Harrison being out helps chad as well and this Jets team can make a move in the playoffs. I think we are seeing an early exit for the golden boy.

 

[Bri]

I think each team will try to run alot this week.

 

[DawnBTVS]

According to Rotoworld...RB Kevan Barlow and CB Andre Dyson are expected to miss the game for the Jets. Losing Dyson is big for the Jets defense.

http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/b....xml&coll=1

 

[Reaper]

As a Pats fan, I love the fact that the Jets beat the Pats at home earlier in the year and I suspect in hindsight BB does also. What better motivator to make sure his team comes ready to play?A number of things were in the Jets favor the last time around: 1. They had a bye leading up to that game, an extra week to prepare. The Pats were coming off a tough game with Indy. 2. Seymour and Warren did not play.3. The field, a disaster in good weather, was even moreso with the wind and rain that marred that day. A great equalizer. That won't be an issue with the field turf and Brady is 20-1 in his carrer on an artificial surface.4. Brady was still getting to know his WRs back then, they are more in synch now.The loss of Harrison hurts, but he didn't play in the loss either. The Pats are playing solid, zero turnovers in their last three games after going through a stretch of sloppy play midseason. Pats 24 Jets 10

I agree with much of your reasoning and I'm pretty much keeping quiet this week and just preparing to enjoy a great weekend of football Hanging on to the fact that Anything can happen in the NFL on any given Sunday. Jets shoud be well behind the Pats at his point in their development and talent level and Peronally I was in rebuilding mode all year just enjoying the ride.My hope is that these Aweful Refs don't impact the game with a bad call.. I thought the Roughing the passer call on Brady in the 1st game was a joke and the last think I want to do is debate Ref calls after a match like this on Monday.... LET THEM PLAY.Here's to a great game, no injuries and Bellichikens Head Exploding :(

 

[Z-Dog]

I'm a Jets fan, but I'm also a fan of the game of football. As a fan of the game, I have great appreciation for Bob Kraft, BB, and all that NE has accomplished over the last few years. They brought back the concept of a dynasty to the salary cap era.

As a fan of the game though, I'm unhappy with BB's conduct. Shaking the opposing team's coach's hand is a basic courtesy extended at every level of the game. It's part of what makes the difference between games and fights - in a game, when it's over, the participants shake hands and exchange a brief word. For all of us who are fans of the NFL game, BB's conduct is untoward, and bordering on unacceptable. When players pull of this sort of trash, we talk about how they think they are bigger than the game. I won't level that accusation at BB until he avoids a handshake entirely, but he is acting in a low-class manner.

And for all of you who have your list of reasons why Manginin is an ##### and deserves to be treated this way, all I can say is that the Patriots made a name for themselves by rising above the competition, not stooping to meet it. BB should hold himself to a higher standard than that.

 

[Rovers]

BTW, lest anyone think I don't appreciate smart knowledgable Pats fans, you might peruse this.... if you have a little extra time to spend....

http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=8071

Tribute to a great Pats fan that posted at my homer site. My screen name there is ThunderBird Jet. This was a Pats fan that was first class all the way, and a really great guy. RIP, Nightowl Tom.

Like I said.... SOME Pats fans, just like there are SOME fans from every team that don't .... well, ya know.

 

[Nigel]

I'm a Jets fan, but I'm also a fan of the game of football. As a fan of the game, I have great appreciation for Bob Kraft, BB, and all that NE has accomplished over the last few years. They brought back the concept of a dynasty to the salary cap era.As a fan of the game though, I'm unhappy with BB's conduct. Shaking the opposing team's coach's hand is a basic courtesy extended at every level of the game. It's part of what makes the difference between games and fights - in a game, when it's over, the participants shake hands and exchange a brief word. For all of us who are fans of the NFL game, BB's conduct is untoward, and bordering on unacceptable. When players pull of this sort of trash, we talk about how they think they are bigger than the game. I won't level that accusation at BB until he avoids a handshake entirely, but he is acting in a low-class manner. And for all of you who have your list of reasons why Manginin is an ##### and deserves to be treated this way, all I can say is that the Patriots made a name for themselves by rising above the competition, not stooping to meet it. BB should hold himself to a higher standard than that.

BB shook his hand after both games. Nobody knows for sure what his beef is with Mangini, but if he has one and he doesn't feel like engaging in phony banter, why should he? Jets fans are WAY too sensitive about this.

 

[corpcow]

While I respect the success Payton has had with NO this year, I think the record turn-around from 2005 has a largely based in the fact that the Saints WERE A ROAD TEAM for all of last season. I don't think that fact is getting enough attention. To me, it lessens the "turn-around" success Payton is being credited for.

Payton's great. He used Deuce and Bush masterfully. But come on... Brees >>>> Brooks. Brooks is a disaster. Remind me, how did the Raiders do this year? Oh, right.That said, as a Jets fan, I LOVE Mangini, but let's also not forget that last year was somewhat of an anomaly in our recent past. We lost our starting QB and our backup QB for the season in the SAME GAME. I love the risks that Mangini has taken and Brian Shotty's playcalling, but we've been a reasonably competitive team the past few years under Chad.We have no "superstars" compared to our cross-town rivals, but come on we do have a big of talent on both sides of the ball.Just saying.

 

[corpcow]

I'm a Jets fan, but I'm also a fan of the game of football. As a fan of the game, I have great appreciation for Bob Kraft, BB, and all that NE has accomplished over the last few years. They brought back the concept of a dynasty to the salary cap era.As a fan of the game though, I'm unhappy with BB's conduct. Shaking the opposing team's coach's hand is a basic courtesy extended at every level of the game. It's part of what makes the difference between games and fights - in a game, when it's over, the participants shake hands and exchange a brief word. For all of us who are fans of the NFL game, BB's conduct is untoward, and bordering on unacceptable. When players pull of this sort of trash, we talk about how they think they are bigger than the game. I won't level that accusation at BB until he avoids a handshake entirely, but he is acting in a low-class manner. And for all of you who have your list of reasons why Manginin is an ##### and deserves to be treated this way, all I can say is that the Patriots made a name for themselves by rising above the competition, not stooping to meet it. BB should hold himself to a higher standard than that.

BB shook his hand after both games. Nobody knows for sure what his beef is with Mangini, but if he has one and he doesn't feel like engaging in phony banter, why should he? Jets fans are WAY too sensitive about this.

Of course not. We don't like Bill after he left us out in the cold a few years back.

 

[Rovers]

I'm a Jets fan, but I'm also a fan of the game of football. As a fan of the game, I have great appreciation for Bob Kraft, BB, and all that NE has accomplished over the last few years. They brought back the concept of a dynasty to the salary cap era.As a fan of the game though, I'm unhappy with BB's conduct. Shaking the opposing team's coach's hand is a basic courtesy extended at every level of the game. It's part of what makes the difference between games and fights - in a game, when it's over, the participants shake hands and exchange a brief word. For all of us who are fans of the NFL game, BB's conduct is untoward, and bordering on unacceptable. When players pull of this sort of trash, we talk about how they think they are bigger than the game. I won't level that accusation at BB until he avoids a handshake entirely, but he is acting in a low-class manner. And for all of you who have your list of reasons why Manginin is an ##### and deserves to be treated this way, all I can say is that the Patriots made a name for themselves by rising above the competition, not stooping to meet it. BB should hold himself to a higher standard than that.

BB shook his hand after both games. Nobody knows for sure what his beef is with Mangini, but if he has one and he doesn't feel like engaging in phony banter, why should he? Jets fans are WAY too sensitive about this.

Shake a man's hand, do it like a man, look him in the eye, or don't bother. It isn't the Jets fans that are overly sensitive about it, it's simply a commentary on Belichick's lack of sportsmanship. The press has over blown it, but to me as a Jets fan, I find BB's behavior to be funny, and frankly embarrassing to the Pats organization. He has made himself look a fool on national TV. Oh, and if you call what BB did a handshake.... you have a different definition of it than I do.

 

[Workhorse]

That said, as a Jets fan, I LOVE Mangini, but let's also not forget that last year was somewhat of an anomaly in our recent past. We lost our starting QB and our backup QB for the season in the SAME GAME. I love the risks that Mangini has taken and Brian Shotty's playcalling, but we've been a reasonably competitive team the past few years under Chad.

That's one thing that keeps getting lost here -- While Mangini has done a great job this year and deserved credit for a good season, this 2006 edition of the Jets isn't as good of a team as the 2004 version, that also went 10-6. In almost every statistical measure, the team from two years ago was FAR better. Mangini looks like a genius for righting the sinking ship of last year, but the injury tidal wave of 2005 caused many of the Jets problems last year. Now that the Jets are reasonably healthy, they are back to being a playoff team. Could Herm Edwards have done just as good (or BETTER) with the same talent? It certainly appears that he did back in 2004 with a pretty similar talent level.

 

[Workhorse]

I'm a Jets fan, but I'm also a fan of the game of football. As a fan of the game, I have great appreciation for Bob Kraft, BB, and all that NE has accomplished over the last few years. They brought back the concept of a dynasty to the salary cap era.

As a fan of the game though, I'm unhappy with BB's conduct. Shaking the opposing team's coach's hand is a basic courtesy extended at every level of the game. It's part of what makes the difference between games and fights - in a game, when it's over, the participants shake hands and exchange a brief word. For all of us who are fans of the NFL game, BB's conduct is untoward, and bordering on unacceptable. When players pull of this sort of trash, we talk about how they think they are bigger than the game. I won't level that accusation at BB until he avoids a handshake entirely, but he is acting in a low-class manner.

And for all of you who have your list of reasons why Manginin is an ##### and deserves to be treated this way, all I can say is that the Patriots made a name for themselves by rising above the competition, not stooping to meet it. BB should hold himself to a higher standard than that.

BB shook his hand after both games. Nobody knows for sure what his beef is with Mangini, but if he has one and he doesn't feel like engaging in phony banter, why should he? Jets fans are WAY too sensitive about this.

Shake a man's hand, do it like a man, look him in the eye, or don't bother. It isn't the Jets fans that are overly sensitive about it, it's simply a commentary on Belichick's lack of sportsmanship. The press has over blown it, but to me as a Jets fan, I find BB's behavior to be funny, and frankly embarrassing to the Pats organization. He has made himself look a fool on national TV. Oh, and if you call what BB did a handshake.... you have a different definition of it than I do.

Looks kind of like a handshake to me. But I'm no expert on "sportsmanship", I guess...

 

[Reaper]

Looks kind of like a handshake to me. But I'm no expert on "sportsmanship", I guess...

Mangini GRABBED BB's hand and BB looked like he ate a #### sandwich and avoided eye contact.

 

[Reaper]

That said, as a Jets fan, I LOVE Mangini, but let's also not forget that last year was somewhat of an anomaly in our recent past. We lost our starting QB and our backup QB for the season in the SAME GAME. I love the risks that Mangini has taken and Brian Shotty's playcalling, but we've been a reasonably competitive team the past few years under Chad.

That's one thing that keeps getting lost here -- While Mangini has done a great job this year and deserved credit for a good season, this 2006 edition of the Jets isn't as good of a team as the 2004 version, that also went 10-6. In almost every statistical measure, the team from two years ago was FAR better. Mangini looks like a genius for righting the sinking ship of last year, but the injury tidal wave of 2005 caused many of the Jets problems last year. Now that the Jets are reasonably healthy, they are back to being a playoff team. Could Herm Edwards have done just as good (or BETTER) with the same talent? It certainly appears that he did back in 2004 with a pretty similar talent level.

Nothing is getting lost..Mangini installed all new systems on the fly and is operating without some of the talent desired for a 3-4 / hybrid.Guy also lost his best Linemen on both sides of the ball (Mawae / Abraham), injected 2 rookies on the OL and opened up competition to ALL. Just look at Herm now, he already says' Trent Green is starting next year - NO WAY IN HELL Man Genius does that - COMPETITION MUST LIVE!!!!! The play calling from Herm's days and the clock management is night and day. A lot less clueless looks on the sidelines and panic at important times....Herm should have / Could have had another QB behind Chad ready to go and Chad probably shouldn't have started to start the year. 2004 was great but, I always had that feeling like Herm was going to lay an egg, I think the ceiling on this team now and in the future is much higher.Personally , I don't really consider Herm a "Coach" - I consider his a caretaker and a cheerleader who relies 100% on what his coordinators bring to the table...

 

[PatsWillWin]

Looks kind of like a handshake to me. But I'm no expert on "sportsmanship", I guess...

Mangini GRABBED BB's hand and BB looked like he ate a #### sandwich and avoided eye contact.

Really had nothing to do with the loss. He did the same thing in the previous game when the Patriots won. He just doesn't like/respect Mangini. That's the story.

 

[Workhorse]

Looks kind of like a handshake to me. But I'm no expert on "sportsmanship", I guess...

Mangini GRABBED BB's hand and BB looked like he ate a #### sandwich and avoided eye contact.

By avoiding eye contact you mean what Mangini is doing in this very picture?

 

[Reaper]

Looks kind of like a handshake to me. But I'm no expert on "sportsmanship", I guess...

Mangini GRABBED BB's hand and BB looked like he ate a #### sandwich and avoided eye contact.

By avoiding eye contact you mean what Mangini is doing in this very picture?

No, I actually saw the game and the "Handshake".....

Mangini grabbed the guy with two hands as he tried to brush by... Mangini made eye contact and then smiled at another "buddy" of his next to BB.

 

[Workhorse]

Looks kind of like a handshake to me. But I'm no expert on "sportsmanship", I guess...

Mangini GRABBED BB's hand and BB looked like he ate a #### sandwich and avoided eye contact.

By avoiding eye contact you mean what Mangini is doing in this very picture?

No, I actually saw the game and the "Handshake".....

Mangini grabbed the guy with two hands as he tried to brush by... Mangini made eye contact and then smiled at another "buddy" of his next to BB.

It's like reading the script about the Zupruder film in "JFK" -- "Back and to the left..."

 

[Raider Nation]

Looks kind of like a handshake to me. But I'm no expert on "sportsmanship", I guess...

Mangini GRABBED BB's hand and BB looked like he ate a #### sandwich and avoided eye contact.

By avoiding eye contact you mean what Mangini is doing in this very picture?

No, I actually saw the game and the "Handshake".....Mangini grabbed the guy with two hands as he tried to brush by... Mangini made eye contact and then smiled at another "buddy" of his next to BB.

Let's cut to the chase. Belichick reluctantly moped his way across the field and did extend his hand. But instead of schmoozing and tongue kissing like he did with his OTHER former colleague, Bill Parcells, he set a world record for fastest handshake. Jets fans felt cheated, but the bottom line is that Belichick respects Parcells and he doesn't respect Mangini.

 

[brednbuddah]

Enough with the handshake already, Who Cares? The only thing I care about after the game is if my team won - that's it.

I don't care about what happened (if anything) between Belichick and Mangini. I don't care if they shake hands or not. It doesn't concern me.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Belichick showed how not to act after a loss last time. Maybe this time he can show some class.

Perhaps. And perhaps Mangini can try not recruiting Patriots players on the flight back from Denver, not putting forward a bogus offer to Deion Branch, and not abandoning the organization that promoted him to defensive coordinator after one year. Then again, perhaps not. Jets fans: "That meanie didn't shake our coach's hand properly!!!" There won't be any fluke TDs to Coles and Cotchery this time, #####es.

I never did believe that 'recruiting" story. The Jets were still actively interviewing head coaching candidates, and had not yet met with Mangini.... but he was recruiting Pats players? You want to talk about a coach abandoning a franchise? start with Belichick when he walked out on the Jets. Belichick is a great coach, that cannot be denied, but he is pretty low class... a home wrecker and a poor sport. Sort of like some Pats fans.....

WOAH! Time out! How did you know I'm a home wrecker?

 

[Boston]

I love how the New York fans are so one-sided in their hatred of BB. It does make sense since it's not uncommon to dislike someone who jilted you and than when on to bigger things. God knows Boston fans have done similar things in their history (as recently as Johnny Damon). Yet, it's a two way street here and while they have some legit gripes with BB the Jets and Mangini have contributed their share to this feud over the years (like tampering with Tuna before the Super Bowl was even played). There's a lot of accusations here and no one knows for sure what's true or not but to act like this is one-sided is simply revisionist history.

 

[corpcow]

That said, as a Jets fan, I LOVE Mangini, but let's also not forget that last year was somewhat of an anomaly in our recent past. We lost our starting QB and our backup QB for the season in the SAME GAME. I love the risks that Mangini has taken and Brian Shotty's playcalling, but we've been a reasonably competitive team the past few years under Chad.

That's one thing that keeps getting lost here -- While Mangini has done a great job this year and deserved credit for a good season, this 2006 edition of the Jets isn't as good of a team as the 2004 version, that also went 10-6. In almost every statistical measure, the team from two years ago was FAR better. Mangini looks like a genius for righting the sinking ship of last year, but the injury tidal wave of 2005 caused many of the Jets problems last year. Now that the Jets are reasonably healthy, they are back to being a playoff team. Could Herm Edwards have done just as good (or BETTER) with the same talent? It certainly appears that he did back in 2004 with a pretty similar talent level.

Nothing is getting lost..Mangini installed all new systems on the fly and is operating without some of the talent desired for a 3-4 / hybrid.Guy also lost his best Linemen on both sides of the ball (Mawae / Abraham), injected 2 rookies on the OL and opened up competition to ALL. Just look at Herm now, he already says' Trent Green is starting next year - NO WAY IN HELL Man Genius does that - COMPETITION MUST LIVE!!!!! The play calling from Herm's days and the clock management is night and day. A lot less clueless looks on the sidelines and panic at important times....Herm should have / Could have had another QB behind Chad ready to go and Chad probably shouldn't have started to start the year. 2004 was great but, I always had that feeling like Herm was going to lay an egg, I think the ceiling on this team now and in the future is much higher.Personally , I don't really consider Herm a "Coach" - I consider his a caretaker and a cheerleader who relies 100% on what his coordinators bring to the table...

I'm not saying he did nothing. Far from it. I LOVE the risk-taking and scheming compared to Herm. I HATE HERM'S CONSERVATIVE CRAP. BUT - the point is, we have more talent than people give us credit for. Same thing down in NO - Brees, Bush and a healthy Deuce vs. Brooks and Aaron Stecker? I don't care WHO you have coaching.... they are going to be 3-4 wins better at the minimum.The difference is that both Mangini and Payton have made the most of the talent infusion and having their leaders healthy.

 

[corpcow]

Let's cut to the chase. Belichick reluctantly moped his way across the field and did extend his hand. But instead of schmoozing and tongue kissing like he did with his OTHER former colleague, Bill Parcells, he set a world record for fastest handshake. Jets fans felt cheated, but the bottom line is that Belichick respects Parcells and he doesn't respect Mangini.

Parcells is to Belichick as Belichick is to Mangini. (or Parcells is to Payton). If we're going to look at how Bill acted towards Mangini, we shouldn't compare it to how he hacted towards Parcells.

 

[corpcow]

I love how the New York fans are so one-sided in their hatred of BB. It does make sense since it's not uncommon to dislike someone who jilted you and than when on to bigger things. God knows Boston fans have done similar things in their history (as recently as Johnny Damon). Yet, it's a two way street here and while they have some legit gripes with BB the Jets and Mangini have contributed their share to this feud over the years (like tampering with Tuna before the Super Bowl was even played). There's a lot of accusations here and no one knows for sure what's true or not but to act like this is one-sided is simply revisionist history.

Nah, I could really care less. All I'm saying is, Bill is not a saint who can do no wrong. They all have ######## potential

 

[Boston]

I love how the New York fans are so one-sided in their hatred of BB. It does make sense since it's not uncommon to dislike someone who jilted you and than when on to bigger things. God knows Boston fans have done similar things in their history (as recently as Johnny Damon). Yet, it's a two way street here and while they have some legit gripes with BB the Jets and Mangini have contributed their share to this feud over the years (like tampering with Tuna before the Super Bowl was even played). There's a lot of accusations here and no one knows for sure what's true or not but to act like this is one-sided is simply revisionist history.

Nah, I could really care less. All I'm saying is, Bill is not a saint who can do no wrong. They all have ######## potential

I don't think there's a Patriot fan who doesn't agree with this. While the guy is one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game he has his flaws and can be surly with the best of them. To his credit he has corrected a lot of his flaws. The biggest reason he jilted the Jets was he didn't want to be involved in a bad ownership situation (as well as the Tuna looming around with control). When he left Cleveland he knew he may only have one shot at being a HC again and he vowed to only do it with a franchise that had stable ownership. With the Jets ownership in transistion and with his history with Bob Kraft he knew New England was a far better fit. The results speak for themself.

 

[GreekFreak]

It's no secret that Belichick can't stand Mangini. Word is that Mangini was recruiting a few New England players to come play for him in N.Y. when the team was on the plane coming home from the playoff loss in Denver.

Would Belichick possibly eschew a post-game handshake if the Jets win?

Will he kick things in the locker room and act like someone just shot his dog?

I'll be rooting for the J-E-T-S just imagining the possibilities!

I'm not 100% sure on everything that went on there, but here is my take on it. Belichick absolutely despises the Jets organization. When he left the Pats to become the Jets defensive coordinator, they put a clause in his contract that would allow him to become Parcells successor. When Parcells stepped down, BB told them he didn't want the job, but they announced him as the new head coach anyway. He was forced to resign a job that he never wanted to take. Then Steve Gutman (sp?) tried to make it sound like Belichick was deranged or had suffered some sort of mental breakdown.They used him as a pawn in the "border war" between Parcells, Kraft, the Pats, and the Jets. They used him to extract draft choices from the Patriots.If Mangini had gone anywhere except the Jets I think that he would have had Belichick's blessing. He advised Mangini to turn down the Jets job. They had been at the Jets together and shared their dislike for the organization. In the end, the money talked.

I also heard that Mangini may have tampered with some Patriot's players before he left. He may have spoken to Matt Chatham and possibly a couple of others before they were free agents. This lessened the chance that the Pats could get a contract done with them before free agency.

Probably the biggest thing between the two now, revolves around Deion Branch. Supposedly Mangini and the Jets may have encouraged Deion to continue his holdout and force a trade or release. They talked contract numbers with him before he was given permission to do so. Belichick and Pioli fully intended to extend Branch's contract but would not throw out the final year of his current deal. The Jets offered to tear up his old deal and give him more money. This gave him a reason not to re-sign with the Pats, and encourage a trade. In the end, the Pats refused to trade him to the Jets for a second round choice, and held out for a first round choice from the Seahawks. The Pats had planned on having Branch, and this left Belichick in a bind. By the time all this came down, it was too late to find another top receiver. I heard that the Pats filed tampering charges, but I don't know what proof they had, or what ever came of it.

I'll see if I can find out more about it.

 

[Reaper]

That said, as a Jets fan, I LOVE Mangini, but let's also not forget that last year was somewhat of an anomaly in our recent past. We lost our starting QB and our backup QB for the season in the SAME GAME. I love the risks that Mangini has taken and Brian Shotty's playcalling, but we've been a reasonably competitive team the past few years under Chad.

That's one thing that keeps getting lost here -- While Mangini has done a great job this year and deserved credit for a good season, this 2006 edition of the Jets isn't as good of a team as the 2004 version, that also went 10-6. In almost every statistical measure, the team from two years ago was FAR better. Mangini looks like a genius for righting the sinking ship of last year, but the injury tidal wave of 2005 caused many of the Jets problems last year. Now that the Jets are reasonably healthy, they are back to being a playoff team. Could Herm Edwards have done just as good (or BETTER) with the same talent? It certainly appears that he did back in 2004 with a pretty similar talent level.

Nothing is getting lost..Mangini installed all new systems on the fly and is operating without some of the talent desired for a 3-4 / hybrid.Guy also lost his best Linemen on both sides of the ball (Mawae / Abraham), injected 2 rookies on the OL and opened up competition to ALL. Just look at Herm now, he already says' Trent Green is starting next year - NO WAY IN HELL Man Genius does that - COMPETITION MUST LIVE!!!!! The play calling from Herm's days and the clock management is night and day. A lot less clueless looks on the sidelines and panic at important times....Herm should have / Could have had another QB behind Chad ready to go and Chad probably shouldn't have started to start the year. 2004 was great but, I always had that feeling like Herm was going to lay an egg, I think the ceiling on this team now and in the future is much higher.Personally , I don't really consider Herm a "Coach" - I consider his a caretaker and a cheerleader who relies 100% on what his coordinators bring to the table...

I'm not saying he did nothing. Far from it. I LOVE the risk-taking and scheming compared to Herm. I HATE HERM'S CONSERVATIVE CRAP. BUT - the point is, we have more talent than people give us credit for. Same thing down in NO - Brees, Bush and a healthy Deuce vs. Brooks and Aaron Stecker? I don't care WHO you have coaching.... they are going to be 3-4 wins better at the minimum.The difference is that both Mangini and Payton have made the most of the talent infusion and having their leaders healthy.

You know what Corp.... In today's NFL, EVERY TEAM has "More talent than they are given credit for".....Arizona and Tampa were talked about preseason as possible "Surprise teams" based on talent heck, I think it was Pasquarelli who said Chris Simms looked like the best QB he saw all preseason..... A Team stays healthy and adds some key components and they can make a splash.... Miami apparently was chaotic this year behind the scenes, watch some coach bring it all together add a few OL players and it will be pretty much the same exact story.Bottom line, the coaching now compared to the past few years is light years ahead. We went from a non-scheming, line em up and let em play coach to a staff that works their tails off to find the smallest weaknesses to take advantage of and adjust to. I think the way Herm and his staff went about things set a cap on how successful the team could ultimately be where now the team is dynamic and not tied to certain players, or systems. We should see the defense be a whole lot more dynamic next year when they get their proper pieces to switch fronts... We see a team that evolves during a season and beyond where Herm again was all about loyalty to certain players and laying his cards on the table early for anyone to try to beat.The Jets came out of the gate relatively healthy last year and were a mess - Horrible decision on Chad starting and not so great decisions on the backup plans. The whole injury thing was just the excuse Herm needed to save face on what I think was going to be a horrible season no matter what and he bailed out to his buddy in KC just in time.

 

[Reaper]

I love how the New York fans are so one-sided in their hatred of BB. It does make sense since it's not uncommon to dislike someone who jilted you and than when on to bigger things. God knows Boston fans have done similar things in their history (as recently as Johnny Damon). Yet, it's a two way street here and while they have some legit gripes with BB the Jets and Mangini have contributed their share to this feud over the years (like tampering with Tuna before the Super Bowl was even played). There's a lot of accusations here and no one knows for sure what's true or not but to act like this is one-sided is simply revisionist history.

Nah, I could really care less. All I'm saying is, Bill is not a saint who can do no wrong. They all have ######## potential

I could care less as well. Lets not act like it's New Yorkers though... It's topic all over the sports media, not some made up NY thing.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I love how the New York fans are so one-sided in their hatred of BB. It does make sense since it's not uncommon to dislike someone who jilted you and than when on to bigger things. God knows Boston fans have done similar things in their history (as recently as Johnny Damon). Yet, it's a two way street here and while they have some legit gripes with BB the Jets and Mangini have contributed their share to this feud over the years (like tampering with Tuna before the Super Bowl was even played). There's a lot of accusations here and no one knows for sure what's true or not but to act like this is one-sided is simply revisionist history.

Nah, I could really care less. All I'm saying is, Bill is not a saint who can do no wrong. They all have ######## potential

I could care less as well. Lets not act like it's New Yorkers though... It's topic all over the sports media, not some made up NY thing.

Actually, I don't think this is true. I think this is a story in Boston and New York and that's it. If you look at the back of your NY Post today, I believe the back page story is "Beli Thaws Cold Feud." This is a back page cover story because Belichick used Mangini's name in the presser the other day. I bet you don't find this mentioned anyhwere on the NFL page on ESPN.

 

[corpcow]

You know what Corp.... In today's NFL, EVERY TEAM has "More talent than they are given credit for".....Arizona and Tampa were talked about preseason as possible "Surprise teams" based on talent heck, I think it was Pasquarelli who said Chris Simms looked like the best QB he saw all preseason..... A Team stays healthy and adds some key components and they can make a splash.... Miami apparently was chaotic this year behind the scenes, watch some coach bring it all together add a few OL players and it will be pretty much the same exact story.Bottom line, the coaching now compared to the past few years is light years ahead. We went from a non-scheming, line em up and let em play coach to a staff that works their tails off to find the smallest weaknesses to take advantage of and adjust to. I think the way Herm and his staff went about things set a cap on how successful the team could ultimately be where now the team is dynamic and not tied to certain players, or systems. We should see the defense be a whole lot more dynamic next year when they get their proper pieces to switch fronts... We see a team that evolves during a season and beyond where Herm again was all about loyalty to certain players and laying his cards on the table early for anyone to try to beat.The Jets came out of the gate relatively healthy last year and were a mess - Horrible decision on Chad starting and not so great decisions on the backup plans. The whole injury thing was just the excuse Herm needed to save face on what I think was going to be a horrible season no matter what and he bailed out to his buddy in KC just in time.

Of course. That's where the phrase "any given Sunday" comes from. Every team in the NFL has some potential - the good teams just use it consistently.My point was that, even with Herm, we would not be a 4-12 team with Chad healthy. That's all. I'm not trying to diminish what the coaching staff has done, because I LOVE Mangini and Schotty and I'm THRILLED to have gotten rid of Herm. I'm just saying that we should put it in perspective, because a lot of people (here included) have basically said that Mangini made something out of nothing. He didn't - he made something better.I should also add that Chad won Comeback Player of the Year.... and not because he sucked, but because he was injured.

 

[corpcow]

I love how the New York fans are so one-sided in their hatred of BB. It does make sense since it's not uncommon to dislike someone who jilted you and than when on to bigger things. God knows Boston fans have done similar things in their history (as recently as Johnny Damon). Yet, it's a two way street here and while they have some legit gripes with BB the Jets and Mangini have contributed their share to this feud over the years (like tampering with Tuna before the Super Bowl was even played). There's a lot of accusations here and no one knows for sure what's true or not but to act like this is one-sided is simply revisionist history.

Nah, I could really care less. All I'm saying is, Bill is not a saint who can do no wrong. They all have ######## potential

I could care less as well. Lets not act like it's New Yorkers though... It's topic all over the sports media, not some made up NY thing.

Actually, I don't think this is true. I think this is a story in Boston and New York and that's it. If you look at the back of your NY Post today, I believe the back page story is "Beli Thaws Cold Feud." This is a back page cover story because Belichick used Mangini's name in the presser the other day. I bet you don't find this mentioned anyhwere on the NFL page on ESPN.

Well, it's at least a story in NE. And I don't have time to dig for it now, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it discussed on ESPN.But like I said, it's a funny side story. Not a big deal. Nothing to see here, let's move on.

 

[corpcow]

Probably the biggest thing between the two now, revolves around Deion Branch. Supposedly Mangini and the Jets may have encouraged Deion to continue his holdout and force a trade or release. They talked contract numbers with him before he was given permission to do so. Belichick and Pioli fully intended to extend Branch's contract but would not throw out the final year of his current deal. The Jets offered to tear up his old deal and give him more money. This gave him a reason not to re-sign with the Pats, and encourage a trade. In the end, the Pats refused to trade him to the Jets for a second round choice, and held out for a first round choice from the Seahawks. The Pats had planned on having Branch, and this left Belichick in a bind. By the time all this came down, it was too late to find another top receiver. I heard that the Pats filed tampering charges, but I don't know what proof they had, or what ever came of it.I'll see if I can find out more about it.

They did file tampering charges, though I don't remember hearing anything about it. Either it was kept confidential, or they went away. Still, valid points.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Hey, check out my new sig!

Haters.

 

[Reaper]

Hey, check out my new sig!Haters.

 

[brednbuddah]

I know this is a little late, but I made the trip up to the Jets/Pats game Sunday. My God, what a beautiful stadium! very clean. unbelievable selection from concessions. $10 for a Sam Adams. $40 to park and that's not even the stadium parking, that's for a private lot about a mile away from the stadium. For the most part, Pats fans were pretty cool. I got more crap for wearing my Yankees hat than my Chrebet (80) jersey! Only bumped into one or two true A-holes, but once you called their bluff they backed down like the punks they are. Besides the outcome of the game, it was a picture perfect day... well worth it.

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

I know this is a little late, but I made the trip up to the Jets/Pats game Sunday. My God, what a beautiful stadium! very clean. unbelievable selection from concessions. $10 for a Sam Adams. $40 to park and that's not even the stadium parking, that's for a private lot about a mile away from the stadium. For the most part, Pats fans were pretty cool. I got more crap for wearing my Yankees hat than my Chrebet (80) jersey! Only bumped into one or two true A-holes, but once you called their bluff they backed down like the punks they are. Besides the outcome of the game, it was a picture perfect day... well worth it.

that sucks...one reason why I won't be going back to Foxboro with my son until he is at least PG-13

 

[Nigel]

I know this is a little late, but I made the trip up to the Jets/Pats game Sunday. My God, what a beautiful stadium! very clean. unbelievable selection from concessions. $10 for a Sam Adams. $40 to park and that's not even the stadium parking, that's for a private lot about a mile away from the stadium. For the most part, Pats fans were pretty cool. I got more crap for wearing my Yankees hat than my Chrebet (80) jersey! Only bumped into one or two true A-holes, but once you called their bluff they backed down like the punks they are. Besides the outcome of the game, it was a picture perfect day... well worth it.

that sucks...one reason why I won't be going back to Foxboro with my son until he is at least PG-13

One or two #######s out of 70K? I see a higher ratio at Church. Do you take your kid anywhere?