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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (2 Viewers)

assuming he meant QBs, you should probably address prospects available in round 1 AND LATER given prior tendencies (notwithstanding the chance of BB trading up this year).
I don't really have that great an opinion on college players as I hardly watch college football. That being said . . .

Lawrence
I haven't watched him much. Probably twice in blowouts and his two losses in college. He seemed pro ready, but when I watched him it seemed like he had a lot of empty calories throwing the ball. Lots and lots of stats, but the two blowouts were against weak teams and the games he lost he couldn't get them back in the game.

Fields
One of those losses for Lawrence was against Fields, and Fields looked fantastic that day. As my son went to OSU, I watched Fields way more than the other QBs. He seems to have great touch and accuracy on deep balls, can make things happen out of nothing, was under duress a lot, and stood in the pocket and took the punishment. Yes, at times he doesn't look to secondary receivers, but I thought he showed more moxie and toughness than the other QBs.

Wilson
Never saw him play live and only saw the highlight package they show when his name comes up. Based only on that, it seemed like he made some great throws into tight windows (and frequently downfield). That being said, I couldn't tell if he couldn't stay in the pocket and rolled out all the time or if that was more of a designed play. He looked solid as a senior . . . but I can't speak to how he played as a freshman or sophomore (when his stats were very human). It's weird that I think he is mobile enough but not really a runner. More of a shortage yardage and goal line runner, but not really a weapon with his legs.

Lance
I am generally leery of guys that only started for one season. And I certainly never saw a North Dakota State game, so I really can't comment much about him. 28 TD to 0 INT stands out, but I have to wonder about the competition. He's also on the young side (only 20). Young + limited experience + sat out for a year = needs time to develop. IMO, if he ended up on NE he would probably sit the first year on the squad.

Jones
I watched a few Alabama games, and what I remember most is them being a pro level team playing against teams that they could overmatch. When I say him, he had a clean pocket and was never pressured and he played pitch and catch on short passes to guys that were wide open. He mixed in some mid- to long-range throws that were on the mark, but only rarely did he have to work hard to throw the ball into tight coverage. Bottom line, I can't tell if he made the offense good or if the line and skill position players made him good. He's more of a traditional pocket passer and won't scare anyone with his legs. One talent evaluator said the best comp to Jones when pressured was Jarrett Stidham. That comment certainly didn't excite me.

All the others . . . Trask, Newman, Mond, Franks, Buechele, Ridder, Pickett, Franks, Ramsey, Mills (I don't even know if all those guys opted in for the draft) I couldn't give an opinion on. Never watched them and never saw any highlights. The only one I heard much about is Trask, and he seems like someone NE might have an interest in if they didn't take someone in the first round. But that is just based on what I've heard.

I am hearing more and more that the Pats like Fields. He's someone that has been mocked anywhere from 2nd overall . . . all the way to falling to NE at 15. Some people saw his draft stock falling with the emergence of Wilson and Lance (and Jones stock rising after the Senior Bowl). Fields has been compared to Watson (which I think is a decent comp but he may not be quite that good).

 
Multiple newly signed players were available for pressers today mentioned that they signed with NE because they wanted to play for BB. We can debate if they brought in the right guys, but the potential narrative that no one would come here without TB12 in town does not appear to have materialized.

 
I am hearing more and more that the Pats like Fields. He's someone that has been mocked anywhere from 2nd overall . . . all the way to falling to NE at 15. Some people saw his draft stock falling with the emergence of Wilson and Lance (and Jones stock rising after the Senior Bowl). Fields has been compared to Watson (which I think is a decent comp but he may not be quite that good).
I raised an eyebrow when you mentioned this given the "no loose lips in Foxboro" dynamic, then I read Daniel Jeremiah on nfl.com saying the same thing, then I heard David Carr on nfl network saying the same thing, and became convinced there is ZERO chance this happens and 100% chance its subtrefuge.

 
I raised an eyebrow when you mentioned this given the "no loose lips in Foxboro" dynamic, then I read Daniel Jeremiah on nfl.com saying the same thing, then I heard David Carr on nfl network saying the same thing, and became convinced there is ZERO chance this happens and 100% chance its subtrefuge.
I agree that national guys that have no ties to NE are not worth listening to. National guys connected to the team like Breer, Rapaport, or Giardi I tend to pay more attention to. Local guys like Reiss, Volin, Hannable, or Lazar I give way more credibility to. I think some of the local guys started talking about Fields and then the national media jumped on it.

I tend to agree that they usually have kept their intentions very close to the vest, but pretty much every one local or national was reporting that NE was going to come out in free agency with guns a blazing and they did just that. Maybe they are interested in Fields, maybe it's just a diversion. But at this point so many people might be thinking like you that they never let out who they are interested in that it HAS to be a decoy that it COULD be true. They like Watson and Fields has a lot of similar traits. So that part aligns and makes some sense. Just because they like a player doesn't mean they will trade a bunch of picks to move up to get him.

One has to think they have already contacted all the teams above them to find out what it would take for them to get into that draft spot should someone they want fall there. I think it's one of those situations where they won't know until they get there what they will do.

 
Solid trade value article with examples of deals that would get the Pat's up to various points for a QB.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2021-what-it-would-cost-patriots-to-move-up-from-no-15-overall-to-select-future-qb/

That Cincy one would be sahweeeet 🤪
I like how they consider Harry worth a mid-2nd based on the points needed to even out the trade. That’s a good one. Anyone valuing him worth that much is making more of a reach than NE did taking him in the 1st to begin with. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Multiple newly signed players were available for pressers today mentioned that they signed with NE because they wanted to play for BB. We can debate if they brought in the right guys, but the potential narrative that no one would come here without TB12 in town does not appear to have materialized.
Backing this up is Jonnu Smith comments...

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2021/03/jonnu-smith-everything-new-england-patriots-stand-for-matches-my-football-dna.html

I think this guy is going to become an animal. If they can retain White or sign/draft a great pass catching back... it will require afc east to revamp their line backers. I don’t see how linebackers won’t be exploited. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
I like how they consider Harry worth a mid-2nd based on the points needed to even out the trade. That’s a good one. Anyone valuing him worth that much is making more of a reach than NE did taking him in the 1st to begin with. 
True story: His rookie year, at my IDP draft one of my friends went to the board & proudly declared “I’ll take Harry N’Keal!” and we all laughed and laughed as though it were a relevant pick. 

Narrator: it was not a relevant pick 

 
Backing this up is Jonnu Smith comments...

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2021/03/jonnu-smith-everything-new-england-patriots-stand-for-matches-my-football-dna.html

I think this guy is going to become an animal. If they can retain White or sign/draft a great pass catching back... it will require afc east to revamp their line backers. I don’t see how linebackers won’t be exploited. 
Since you mentioned White, IMO, it might make more sense to move on to someone else that is both younger and cheaper. Yes, I know White had major personal tragedy to deal with last season, but Newton throwing to backs didn't work out well last year. If Cam is the primary QB this season (which at this stage has to be the default position to take at QB), I am not sure Newton and White can get on the same page. If they draft a new QB with the intent of handing that guy the keys to the kingdom in 2021, by that point White would be 31. If White wants to come back and take a home town discount, then maybe he's worth re-signing.

On that front, it has been reported that White has spoken to Tampa and the RB market has been slow to develop. So he's apparently going to take some time to see what opportunities develop. LINK

 
Since you mentioned White, IMO, it might make more sense to move on to someone else that is both younger and cheaper. Yes, I know White had major personal tragedy to deal with last season, but Newton throwing to backs didn't work out well last year. If Cam is the primary QB this season (which at this stage has to be the default position to take at QB), I am not sure Newton and White can get on the same page. If they draft a new QB with the intent of handing that guy the keys to the kingdom in 2021, by that point White would be 31. If White wants to come back and take a home town discount, then maybe he's worth re-signing.

On that front, it has been reported that White has spoken to Tampa and the RB market has been slow to develop. So he's apparently going to take some time to see what opportunities develop. LINK
What’s Duke Johnson up to? The draft is an option too. Lots of smallish pass catching types in this draft.

 
What’s Duke Johnson up to? The draft is an option too. Lots of smallish pass catching types in this draft.
Duke is a free agent. Other backs that are still unsigned include Gurley, Fournette, Connor, Bell, Coleman, Breida, Damien Williams, Dion Lewis, McKinnon, Chris Thompson, and Yeldon.

 
Duke is a free agent. Other backs that are still unsigned include Gurley, Fournette, Connor, Bell, Coleman, Breida, Damien Williams, Dion Lewis, McKinnon, Chris Thompson, and Yeldon.
Out of these other backs you mentioned, who is a better pass catcher than Duke Johnson and is younger than to give only a one year contract? 

 
What’s Duke Johnson up to? The draft is an option too. Lots of smallish pass catching types in this draft.
I have been silently wishing for this every day since Houston released him. I can think of no better landing spot for a guy I got as a "toss-in" who's been entirely worthless ewer since. 

 
Out of these other backs you mentioned, who is a better pass catcher than Duke Johnson and is younger than to give only a one year contract? 
Probably Deion Lewis & Chris Thompson. Not sure about age. Maybe DWilliams as well.  

I don't see the others either wanting a 3rd down role or a 1 year deal, or being a significantly better receiving option.

Any of Lewis, Thompson or DWIll would be excellent fits if White doesn't return.  

 
Out of these other backs you mentioned, who is a better pass catcher than Duke Johnson and is younger than to give only a one year contract? 
Johnson is 28 and was on a contract that paid him $5.2 million a year (but then was cut).  Just curious why it would have to be a one year contract. He's probably going to want more money than NE will want to spend, and it's easier to manipulate the salary cap by signing guys for more than one season. If the Pats view themselves as being in win now mode, then he would make more sense than trying to develop a rookie.

 
Johnson is 28 and was on a contract that paid him $5.2 million a year (but then was cut).  Just curious why it would have to be a one year contract. He's probably going to want more money than NE will want to spend, and it's easier to manipulate the salary cap by signing guys for more than one season. If the Pats view themselves as being in win now mode, then he would make more sense than trying to develop a rookie.
I mean not so old to have to give just a one year contract. That was the point you made. I’m asking, of the options you mentioned... who would you give more than a year contract too and is as good or better than Duke Johnson as a pass catching back?

 
Probably Deion Lewis & Chris Thompson. Not sure about age. Maybe DWilliams as well.  

I don't see the others either wanting a 3rd down role or a 1 year deal, or being a significantly better receiving option.

Any of Lewis, Thompson or DWIll would be excellent fits if White doesn't return.  
Lewis is 31, Thompson is 31, and Williams is 29. 

 
Lewis is 31, Thompson is 31, and Williams is 29. 
Thanks, I was being lazy I admit. All capable receivers but agree that if the goal is to have them in a couple years for whomever replaces Cam, probably best to go young.

That said, isn’t Harris a decent receiver? I could see the Pats going into the season with Michel / Harris. It’s not ideal, but it could work. Michel actually looked halfway decent at the end of 2020. 

 
Thanks, I was being lazy I admit. All capable receivers but agree that if the goal is to have them in a couple years for whomever replaces Cam, probably best to go young.

That said, isn’t Harris a decent receiver? I could see the Pats going into the season with Michel / Harris. It’s not ideal, but it could work. Michel actually looked halfway decent at the end of 2020. 
I mentioned the receiving back question several pages ago. Do they feel Michael and Harris CAN'T catch or have they simply not asked them to catch.

Michael had 64 receptions in 47 games in college. And 29 receptions in 42 games with NE. Combined that's 93 catches in 89 games).

Harris had 52 catches in 54 games in college. And he's only had 5 receptions in 12 games with the Patriots. Combined that's 57 catches in 66 games.

In the past, BB has drafted receiving backs but they usually see limited time as rookies and get more work starting in Year 2. I literally have no idea who would be a good receiving back option in the draft and what round it would take to invest a pick in.

 
Patriots waived LB Cassh Maluia, LB Michael Pinckney, and K Justin Rohrwasser.

Trent Brown's deal with the Patriots: Base salary: $6.5M (fully guaranteed) Per-game roster bonuses: Up to $2M Weight incentives: Up to $500K Playing-time incentives: $1M (90%) Pro Bowl: $1M.

Updated Patriots salary cap space number is $13,882,366 not including Montravius Adams and Raekwon McMillan.

 
Patriots waived LB Cassh Maluia, LB Michael Pinckney, and K Justin Rohrwasser.

Trent Brown's deal with the Patriots: Base salary: $6.5M (fully guaranteed) Per-game roster bonuses: Up to $2M Weight incentives: Up to $500K Playing-time incentives: $1M (90%) Pro Bowl: $1M.

Updated Patriots salary cap space number is $13,882,366 not including Montravius Adams and Raekwon McMillan.
This is great TBrown where he should be. Helps if he gets injured. 

 
Unlike Kiper. I’m not a huge QBs fan of this draft... I love Troy Lance. But wouldn’t take any other QBs in this draft over Sewell. 

 
Also saw that Agholor is said to have had multiple suitors. That is interesting, but it would be more interesting to know what their offers were.

 
That's odd....is the interest from team(s) who failed to land their primary trade target?
🤷‍♂️

Hard to tell. Apparently several teams felt they could use Agholor. Without more context, it's hard to know what that means . . . which teams, their situations, if they wanted him cheap on a one year deal, etc. But from the tweets that I say it sounded like NE had to make an effort to land him and he ultimately picked NE (ie there was some decision-making involved).

 
I was bored and decided to startup some discussion on positional groupings and how things look from group to group. I will be using PFF grades for the players based on their last 3 seasons played where the player logged enough time on the field to qualify. Note that does not mean a player played the past three seasons, nor does it mean that player was on the same team across those seasons. It's just something use as a basis for comparison.

In general, I find PFF grades usually work out as follows (some positions score higher or lower, but this is a decent baseline):

90 or up is top of the league (QBs generally get a higher score than other positions)
High 80s is usually All Pro level (at positions other than QB)
Low 80s is usually Pro Bowl level
High 70s is usually a very good starter
Low 70s is usually better than average or decent starter
High 60s is typically average or baseline for a replacement level player
Low 60s or below is usually a rotational player or potentially a liability on the field

QUARTERBACK

Currently on the roster:

Cam Newton QB 70.9 48.5 70.9
Jarrett Stidham QB 42.6 27.2


Former NE Players:

Tom Brady QB 92.5 80.5 90.7
Jimmy Garoppolo QB 67.5 77.9 62.6
Jacoby Brissett QB 75.6 59.2 57.8
Brian Hoyer QB 58.8 69.4 64.9


Top of the Food Chain Last Year:

Aaron Rodgers QB 94.5 81.4 89
Deshaun Watson QB 92.5 81.3 82.7
Patrick Mahomes QB 91.4 84.1 93.2
Russell Wilson QB 90.3 91.1 86.9
Josh Allen QB 90.3 64.2 65.3
Ryan Tannehill QB 90.3 92.5 45.3


Not really covering any new ground in mapping out this group. But it does scare me off of Garoppolo coming back and being the savior. I don't think he's been that great in SF (and PFF concurs). TB12 was the gold standard again last year (which I admit I did not expect and I swung and missed on). At this point, I don't see any free agent QBs or trade candidates worth pursuing. If NE DOES NOT draft a QB early, then maybe their other avenue is to get someone from a team that does draft one of the rookie QB prospects. That might include the likes of Matt Ryan, Sam Darnold, Teddy Bridgewater, or the just mentioned Jimmy G. I don't love that as an option as I don't love the options that will probably be available. Maybe Cam gets more spry and gets his act together, discovers the fountain of youth, and gets loaded up on HGH to stay healthy and does a little better, but I won't be holding my breath.
 

 
Awesome. This is a big deal. I thought for sure Miami would steal him. 
Decent signing, but Guy doesn't really move the needle much for me. More on Guy when I get to recapping the DLine. To summarize, his productivity has been going in the wrong direction the past couple of years.

 

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