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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (13 Viewers)

7-1 going into the bye and Brady looking better than he has in the past 10 years. I'm confident in this team but the defense is still a little worrisome. Ryan and Rowe have been turnstile for the most part and the lack of a pass rush could hurt in the playoffs. 

 
I wish that the defense was more aggressive ... especially when the team is up by 2 scores or more. The D line seems content to stand their ground and "contain" vs go for the sack. (or maybe they just aren't very good).

I love the analysis of Dilfer before the game saying how the Pats offense beat you with a scalpel not a machete.

Some big "machete" plays yesterday but I'm thinking BUF was attempting to take away all of the underneath junk that the Pats are famous for ... obviously Brady took advantage a couple of times as the O line held up enough.

I think that is half the formula for beating the Pats, take away the underneath junk, ... the other half would be QB pressure which BUF wasn't quite able to muster.

Seahawks coming in 2 weeks. We'll see if their pass rush is able to disrupt the well oiled machine.

... and I get giddy every time I think of the fact that Brady is 4 games fresher, (4 games less getting hit and hundreds less practice reps) than almost everyone else as we move forward. Take this week off and come back for 8 more games (or 7 if they rest him week 17). 

 
michael lombardi Verified account ‏@mlombardifoxtv

Not surprised by the Pats trading Colllins. Not been playing well at all they need to get the defense fixed. This will get their attention

 
Tom E. Curran ‏@tomecurran 4m4 minutes ago

You thought defense was underperforming. I thought defense was underperforming. This confirms Belichick - the opinion that matters - agreed

 
michael lombardi ‏@mlombardifoxtv 10m10 minutes ago

Collins on the second play of the game does whatever he wants and Bills gain 28 yards. Been happening all year. It was not going to continue

 
He's definitely been struggling this year, but it just doesn't make sense with the info we have. They absolutely would have gotten a 3rd Rd comp pick in free agency.

 
Run It Up said:
He's definitely been struggling this year, but it just doesn't make sense with the info we have. They absolutely would have gotten a 3rd Rd comp pick in free agency.
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In the 2018 draft, at the end of the round.  As opposed to a 2017 3rd rounder at the beginning of the round.

I don't know what was going on with Collins this year but he was playing some bad football at times.  Lost playing time to Elandon Roberts for good reason.

 
The pick we allegedly got from Cleveland was a compensatory pick - it is at the end of the round.

Schefter saying he was asking for Von Miller money. Okay we get it, he wasn't coming back, but one 3rd comp pick still makes little sense.

 
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Yeah, this seems more like a "good riddance and GTFO" move rather than a pre-planned, shop him for the most we can get maneuver.

 
Workhorse said:
That doesn't make any sense. They haven't announced 2017 compensatory picks yet.
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And looking at the projected picks, Cleveland won't be getting a 2017 3rd Rd comp pick. Maybe it was just their third (which is basically a 2nd), that's a silver lining but Schefty needs to word his tweets better.

 
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I'm thinking maybe the salary cap is gonna stagnate given the NFL ratings scare and it would be impossible to fit everyone under the cap.

Maybe they make a play to extend Marty, maybe they manage the scenario where we resign Garopollo in 2017.

Just confused.

 
Real shocker...the most amazing thing about this is BB continues to find ways to surprise people...

*I thought Collins was going to be the odd man out moneywise between Butler, Hightower and himself but no way did I think a mid-season trade was happening...especially when you are gunning for a Super Bowl...

*The Lombardi quote about the Bills play is very telling...gotta assume there is much more to this...

*Wonder if the deal for the kid from the Lions had this in mind... 

*A third-round compensatory does seem like a low-return...I was pretty shocked by that...but he is going to be looking for huge money this offseason and I would assume they weren't looking to deal him to another contender...

*This is another in a long list of "in Bill we trust" moments...more often than not they work-out but this is one that really came out of nowhere...

 
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Don't think BB's matrix has room for any defensive player making $15+mil a yr. Hightower is soooo freakin over-the-top good right now that he might make an exception (even then it'll prob need to be a hometown discount), but look for him to continue to TampaBaypitchingstaff his defense for the rest of his career.

 
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Reading now that it was a conditional 3rd round comp pick, if they aren't awarded a 3rd round comp pick the Pats will receive a regular 4th rounder.

This trade is back to the bad column for me.

 
Not sure what the Browns are thinking ... basically renting Collins for 8 games at the cost of the 3.33 (or 4.01) pick.

So they franchise him at $15m for one year ... does that make them a contender next year?

If Belichick / Patricia were planning on benching Collins ... might as well get something for him while they can.

* watch Barkevious Mingo - He was all over the field in the pre-season. I predict that he is primed for a full time role at this point.

 
Bossman said:
Not sure what the Browns are thinking ... basically renting Collins for 8 games at the cost of the 3.33 (or 4.01) pick.

So they franchise him at $15m for one year ... does that make them a contender next year?
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Guess what happens if Collins signs elsewhere next year?  Browns would get a comp pick, in the same range as the pick they are giving up, thus making him free for the 8 games they have him.  

The Brown can franchise him for two years, or even sign him to a long term deal.  4th round pick for Jamie Collins is never a ''what were they thinking move??''

 
Reading between the lines, it certainly appears BB wanted a quick and easy divorce. NE would have gotten a similar 3rd round conditional pick after the season if Collins signed somewhere else (given the insane contracts that have been handed out lately). Essentially, they so wanted to rid themselves of Collins that they unloaded him for nothing (rather than have him play the final 8 games).

 
More from Lombardi on the Simmons Sal podcast.  Calls at 22:30

Paraphrase: Collins (and whole D) have played poorly all year.  Collins played less snaps every week as season went on.  Didn't look interested. Belichick will not tolerate that. Trade is message to locker room.

 
Patriots face a lot of decisions at the end of this season on who to re-sign. Right now,
dumping Collins looks big but it just accelerated the decision making.

 
From Over the Cap:

Big in season trades in the NFL usually make for fun discussion, but little action at the deadline. Today that changed a bit as the Patriots traded away starting linebacker Jamie Collins for a 3rd round compensatory draft pick. The strange thing is that the team who traded for him is the winless Browns. It almost seems like some alternate universe trade with the contending team somehow becoming a seller and the non-contender becoming a buyer of a player who is going to be a free agent. That said I think the move brings to light some of the things we’ve discussed here before about approaches to contracts and the draft.

First we’ll cover a few items relating to the draft compensation and questions that I have gotten on it. The 3rd round pick for Collins seems pretty low which has people asking why not just allow Collins to finish out the year and collect a 3rd round compensatory pick for him when he signs elsewhere in free agency. While I can’t speak for the Patriots opinion on Collins impact this year, I can talk a little on the compensatory process.


 

One issue is the timing of the draft selection. If the Patriots play the compensatory process out they won’t receive a draft pick until 2018 for Collins.  While 3rd rounders don’t have nearly the same hit rate as 1st rounders, the goal for New England is to likely surround Tom Brady with as much talent as possible over the next two years. A 3rd rounder could contribute in 2017 and be a quality starter by 2018, both of which will fall in the Brady window.  It also gives the Patriots another asset that they can use to move up in the draft if they feel there is an impactful player for this upcoming season.

Secondly, and more importantly, is that the gaining of a compensatory pick is not something that is a given. You can read all of Nick’s posts on the topic on our draft pages, but the short version is that you have to lose more than you gain to qualify. The Patriots have a few free agents that will likely garner some interest next year, but if they kept those players and lost Collins it could be possible that a $1 million free agent would eliminate the comp pick for Collins entirely.

By trading Collins New England doesn’t have to worry about carefully walking through free agency; they lock in their pick now. That is a much easier scenario than having to be a team like the Ravens who has to be so calculated with free agent decision or the Packers who just avoid free agency entirely. So these are all reasons why the trade for a 3 makes more sense than waiting for a 3.

For the Browns it is a little harder to see the logic in the move unless they have a deal in place with Collins prior to the trade. The Browns are going nowhere fast and while Collins is a good player he doesn’t play the kind of impact position that changes a defense from horrific to passable. Collins is a free agent after the year and if he does not opt to re-sign with the Browns they get no long term benefit from this trade.

Cleveland could use the franchise tag on Collins but that will put them in a position where they are paying a non pass rusher a rushers salary. It also means that they will need to work out a contract with Terrelle Pryor before using the tag on Collins. While I don’t believe Pryor is a tag player, it certainly makes more sense to tag him over Collins.

While the Browns have a ridiculous amount of money they can spend, as a front office you don’t want to  set precedent for future negotiations by doing ridiculous things with contracts. That is how teams like the Raiders ended up as such a mess. There was a rumor that Collins was looking for a laughable contract worth something similar to Von Millers. To even be in that range would be a massive mistake for the Browns. Collins position maxes out around $10 million a year. Miller makes over $19 million.


 
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In Belichick we trust. Lets hope Elandon Roberts can step up and keep playing as good as he has been the past few weeks. If Hightower gets hurt again and misses time, it'll be tough sledding. 

 
devouredbychaos said:
In Belichick we trust. Lets hope Elandon Roberts can step up and keep playing as good as he has been the past few weeks. If Hightower gets hurt again and misses time, it'll be tough sledding. 
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Deep down you just know BB was aroused by the thought of replacing an All Pro LB with a rookie 6th round pick...the only thing better would be if he was undrafted...his ultimate dream would be too field a starting line-up with all undrafted players and a 60 year old Doug Flutie at QB...I could see him attempting that in his final year...

 
 
I am going to be watching this situation closely. Let's see what scumbag Goodell does about this. If this is just swept under the rug I'll lose my mind.

FOX's Jay Glazer reports the Steelers are accused of deflating two footballs in last week's win over the Giants.
Oh no. Please God no. The country has been through a lot in 2016, but another Deflategate scandal would truly be too much to bear. Per Glazer, the Giants "got suspicious" of the Steelers last week and tested the balls themselves, with two coming back under-inflated. The balls were then sent to the league. The league has yet to respond. This is a nightmare scenario for the NFL, which set a precedent of extremely heavy-handed punishment in the Patriots case.
 
I know this is the wrong forum, please accept my apology.  This is a FF emergency.  To make the playoffs...I'm in a tight one...1 pt PPR....Blount or Dixon..... Baltimore D scares me... please chime in with some valid reasoning to try to help.

 
So those who have been high roading it and ignoring posting in the relevant thread or even casually discussing it. Jerry Thornton struck a chord with me today.

 

You cannot call yourself a Patriots fan and still let Deflategate 2 go. You just can't. People like Jay Glazer roll their eyes and say "Here we go again" because they got sick of our Deflategate? #### you. We'll decide when to drop it.
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Goes on:
 

The whole thing was an argument we did not start, and as soon as we were winning it the rest of the world tried to pull the old “Can we stop talking about this?” and they can’t get away with it.

With this new version, there is no way the anti-Patriots witch hunters can win the debate. If the Pats’ balls were deflated by someone on purpose, then so were the Steelers. If the Steelers’ were done by the Ideal Gas Law, so were the Patriots’. Roethlisberger’s and Tomlin’s denials are the exact same as Brady’s and Belichick’s.

There is no logical or ethical way you can split that baby. So they’ll try to ignore it, cover it up and deny it. And I for one will refuse to let them. I’ll die before I let Deflategate 2 die.
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Run It Up said:
So those who have been high roading it and ignoring posting in the relevant thread or even casually discussing it. Jerry Thornton struck a chord with me today.

 

Goes on:
 
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JerryThornton is the biggest hack this side of hackville. So glad he left EEI.

 
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