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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Boston
Footballguy
captain_amazing
Footballguy
I gotta rant for a second:
<RANT>
What's with all the disrespect for Wes Welker? It really grinds my gears. I am a HUGE fan of Edelman and you can go back and find psots form me about how I thought Edelman would be the next Welker when folks thought Edelman was a jag, but Welker gets such disrepect by NE fans and it drives me nuts. If you had to choose Edelman and Welker straight up in their prime and you choose Edelman, then there's something wrong with you. Welker was the better receiver of the too, reliable as ####, far less injury prone, and great at YAC. Edelman is the better athelete any by far the better punt returner, and while a very good receiver, not as good as Welker.
</RANT>
<RANT>
What's with all the disrespect for Wes Welker? It really grinds my gears. I am a HUGE fan of Edelman and you can go back and find psots form me about how I thought Edelman would be the next Welker when folks thought Edelman was a jag, but Welker gets such disrepect by NE fans and it drives me nuts. If you had to choose Edelman and Welker straight up in their prime and you choose Edelman, then there's something wrong with you. Welker was the better receiver of the too, reliable as ####, far less injury prone, and great at YAC. Edelman is the better athelete any by far the better punt returner, and while a very good receiver, not as good as Welker.
</RANT>
captain_amazing
Footballguy
Also, still pissed about the folks that wanted to jettison James White.
You know who you are.
You know who you are.
Boston
Footballguy
I will come clean on White...I thought he was just a jag for awhile...and for a period of time he was...but it appears he has a chance to be the next kevin Faulk and he has earned it...I am definitely comfortable with him now...
i love Welker but if it's third and five in a big playoff game give me Edelman all day long...
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captain_amazing
Footballguy
I don't think he was ever a jag, but to each their own. I think he got a bad rap after that Denver game, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon to run the kid out of town.
While I still think Welker is better than Edelman as a WR, I do understand your sentiment there.
Boston
Footballguy
Never wanted him out of town...I honestly thought he couldn't take his game to another level and early in his career he just didn't "pop"...I thought he would just be an ok guy who you trusted but not quite good enough to make the big play when it counted...I am very pleased to say I was wrong and if he can build off of that Super Bowl performance and give the Pats a run of years like Faulk did than they will be in good hands with that role...
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Boston
Footballguy
Welker is tough as nails but Edelman has that insane quality about him that just gives the whole team a lift...the punishment both these guys have taken is scary...
Boston
Footballguy
I think he will do real well there...the best way to describe him is a trusted BB Assistant...he is well regarded here and he is a natural fit to work with Saban after being with BB...I think this could turn out to be a real nice hire...great move for both DaBoll and The Tide...
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Bossman
Footballguy
$60m in cap space .... so can only afford to sign 8 or 10 of these players to retain them?
Who do they resign? Who doesn't get re-signed?
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
TE Martellus Bennett - Team wants him but he would have to sign at a discount. Talks about how much he liked being a Patriot but not sure Bennett will give up a couple million just for another title shot. I hope I'm wrong.
RB LeGarrette Blount - $$ Should be back. Already learned his lesson in PIT. Would play for NE for free if need be.
RB Brandon Bolden - He's still on the team?
DT Alan Branch - $$$ Team loves the widebody DL
FB James Develin - $ Cheap money
WR Michael Floyd
FS Duron Harmon
LB Dont’a Hightower - $$$$ Defensive leader. Top priority.
DE Chris Long - Time to retire
LB Barkevious Mingo
CB Logan Ryan - Someone is going to overpay Ryan. Won't be the Pats
TE Greg Scruggs
DE Jabaal Sheard - Another super bowl champ that someone will overpay
RT Sebastian Vollmer - Big German is gonna get one last big contract ... somewhere else.
RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
CB Malcolm Butler - $$$$ Will be priority #2 behind Hightower.
OT Cameron Fleming - $$
One advantage the Pats have is that other teams quality free agents may choose to sign at a discount so they can have a shot at a ring.
Gotta leave some money aside for those guys coming in.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They certainly could keep more than 8 or 10 of those players if they wanted them back. Some of them won't cost much at all. Blount played last year for under $1 million. Branch was a little over $2 million. Floyd would play for peanuts if they wanted him back. Develin played for $750K. I have read speculation that they will give Butler a first round tender so they could get him back for only $4 million. I have my doubts that that would play that way, but it is a cheap option to try.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Doubt it. He's a P.R. nightmare, is guaranteed a suspension, and has all but begged to stay with NE. How did the other guys with off-field issues do? Hardy . . . no job. Rice . . . no job. Manziel . . . no job. Josh Brown . . . no job. Blackmon . . . no job. Former NE CB Alfonzo Dennard . . . no job. It's not like teams are lining up to sign players with off field issues.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Not sure when Floyd's sentence begins but he may miss either the start of free agency or be on house arrest during training camp
Anarchy99
Footballguy
He is already serving his "120-day" sentence . . . which is really just 24 days in "prison" . . . and then 96 days of house arrest, I believe he started right after he accepted the plea deal. That puts him totally out on the street on 6/15. He would still get a full training camp in, so that part would not be an issue. All he would miss would be OTA's (and however long his suspension would be). I would not be shocked if the league waits to see where he signs. If it's NE . . . then 4 games. Anywhere else . . . 2 games.
He is a jag....in any other system. He would be just like Lewis was in CLE. A nobody. If you can grasp the NE system, you will thrive. If you can't Aaron Dobson, Chad Johnson, you will be gone. Sometimes it takes a little while to grasp it. They worked with Dobson and finally gave up.
Michael Floyd will be cut before the start of the season. He's too dumb.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Floyd is a free agent so he can't be cut. But I think NE will consider bringing him back. Believe it or not, I think BB is still learning ways to do things as a head coach and the guys that flopped at receiver were likey given more than they could handle.
I think Floyd could have some utility if they gave him a package of plays where he would come in as an extra receiver. He would only need to know 30-40 plays and have his routes pre-set or maybe with only one hot read to consider per play
I think that strategy would work, as I agree Floyd would likely struggle to learn 1,000 plays with a 1,000 variations.
Add in that he would be willing to play for peanuts because he will be considered toxic by most teams, and I think NE will give consideration to bringing Floyd back.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
At QB? Maybe someone in the middle rounds or later. I don't think there is anyone that stands out as an early round guy. So maybe someone McDaniels thinks would make a good pet project.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I doubt they take a QB unless it's someone pretty late that they can just leave on the practice squad. Anyone that is higher profile they would have to leave on the 53-man roster, and BB won't want to carry a guy that will be inactive pretty much every week. If they had enough confidence in Brissett with TB out and JG hurt to not even bring in an emergency JAG at QB, I am guessing they would be confident again if Brissett had to fill in.
The other thing to consider is that there are a lot of moving parts. This is a very complicated case. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. Who knows which guys will be back and what holes they will have to fill. Having a third QB probably is of lesser importance then say finding defensive starters if guys relocate elsewhere.
The other thing to consider is that there are a lot of moving parts. This is a very complicated case. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. Who knows which guys will be back and what holes they will have to fill. Having a third QB probably is of lesser importance then say finding defensive starters if guys relocate elsewhere.
Boston
Footballguy
If they move Jimmy G I would not be surprised if they use a pick (or dig up an undrafted FA) on a QB...would probably be a later pick and someone they could potentially put on the practice squad as Anarchy pointed out...while I am in the camp that Brady has a decent amount left he is 39 so they need to have a few options at that position...
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Niles Standish
Footballguy
He tore that ligament in his thumb on his throwing hand at some point in the Houston game. So if you ignore the Bills game and the last quarter or so in the Houston game it's a pretty limited sample. I think he proved his toughness going out and playing with that injury. Especially compared to Jimmy G who was supposed to be out there in the Bills game and probably had a lesser injury than Brissett at that point. I think Brissett will be the next QB of New England after Brady leaves. But that's partly colored by the fact that smart football guys like Parcells and Belichick seem to love the guy.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
TB12 had the specter of Deflategate as an albatross hanging around his neck. I am guessing that was a factor in drafting Brissett (although they could have taken him anyway for all that I know).
Run It Up
Footballguy
I don't have a source, but i remember reading that when Jimmy and Jacoby were both taken, it was because they were expecting Brady to start withering.
Since then, I had also heard that the internal tests they use to evaluate player decline had Brady actually improving, so maybe they wont.
Since then, I had also heard that the internal tests they use to evaluate player decline had Brady actually improving, so maybe they wont.
Bossman
Footballguy
I'm somewhat surprised that the Pats didn't pay Hightower.
Wonder what their backup plan is if he signs elsewhere.
Kiko Alonso is an RFA. Maybe they kill 2 birds by overpaying him to steal him away from the Dolphins.
Worst case scenario MIA matches the high offer and they take the big cap hit.
Wonder what their backup plan is if he signs elsewhere.
Kiko Alonso is an RFA. Maybe they kill 2 birds by overpaying him to steal him away from the Dolphins.
Worst case scenario MIA matches the high offer and they take the big cap hit.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Maybe. For starters, I doubt he will sign a big contract. If a team is willing to take the PR hit, he will probably get a one year team friendly prove it deal.
Assuming he does get signed, I believe it would depend when he signs. Teams only get credit toward compensatory picks if a player signs in the first 60 days of free agency. Floyd wouldn't be able to leave Arizona until well after then. If a team wants him, they will have to go see him at home in Arizona to sign him.
With NE having a lot of free agents that could depart, Floyd would get added to the list of players that signed elsewhere in considering net gains and losses from free agency. But as a standalone compensatory pick candidate? Probably not.
Boston
Footballguy
Should be a roller-coaster watching the Hightower thing play out...on one hand he's a stud and one of the leaders of this team...his big plays are well-documented...on the other-hand he has only played a full 16 games once in his 15 year career...I also get the impression there won't be any hometown discount with him...if he is back it will be at top-dollar...I'm a big Hightower guy and really want him back but after 16 years of watching these type of things I just don't get too worked up about them anymore as they seem to have a way of working themselves out...
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Boston
Footballguy
Will be interesting to see if Floyd comes back...I thought it was gonna happen because I don't see him getting big money this offseason and playing a year with the Pats would be a good rehab for his game and image...could also be a low-money steal for the Pats...that being said I read a blurb somewhere about him having difficulty learning the offense and if true that has usually been the kiss of death for Patriot WRs in the Brady era...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There has been so much reported on Floyd that doesn't add up that it is really hard to get a read on the situation. As far as him grasping the offense, he played for Charlie Weis for two years at Norte Dame. One would think they had a modified system similar to what Weis was running in his time in NE. Maybe what the Patriots run now is different and more complex, but I thought what brought Floyd to NE in the first place was having a general knowledge of the plays and signal calls.
Bossman
Footballguy
I don't think the PR hit would deter too many teams if they thought he has his act together now.
If he hit a woman then I could see that being a big issue. His run in with the law did not involve him hurting anyone or illegal drugs.
Boston
Footballguy
Great signing for both him and the Pats...he fit in seamlessly and definitely contributed to their success...the Pats definitely got their money's worth on him...now it's time to find the next Chris Long...a different player than Long but I saw they had Odrick in for a visit the other day...
On another note it will be real interesting to see what they do with all this cap-space...
Boston
Footballguy
A lot of them aren't big money guys...Hightower is a big one as is Butler if they decide to get him done this offseason...outside of that you have Ryan and Harmon and I don't know how far they will go for them...Branch could get decent money if the term is short but he is 32...I don't see them giving Bennett or Sheard big deals...even after investing in this group they are probably going to have a real nice chunk of cap space left (and that is without any restructures)...
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
3 years ago, yes. Now, mild annoyance.
Surely, they will do some seemingly weird stuff, like trade Butler or keep Garrapolo, something.... and win their 12-14 games next year.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If the Pats don't want to pay their own guys, what makes you think they are going to bring in someone already 31 by opening day and shell out $10-12 million a year for him?
Bossman
Footballguy
You think the Pats have something against having a 31 year old on the roster? It's their m.o. ... Bryan Cox, Ted Washington, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Seau, Long, Amendola, etc.
C.Campbell can still play ... unlike Sheard and Long.
Bossman
Footballguy
Talking about how the Patriots could spend some money to get closer to the cap ...
Signing Calais Campbell would not be an unprecedented move for Belichick:
On March 3, 2007, (Adalius) Thomas signed a 5-year contract with the New England Patriots .... After the move, Patriots head coach Bill Belichick told Thomas that he had "backed up the Brink's truck" to pay him. (A.Thomas turned 30 that year. And the move happened at this time of year ... not months into free agency.)
Also, NE is where the older guys come (at a slight discount) to get their ring. If Campbell is financially set at 30 years old, he could be motivated to play for the #1 contender.
Not predicting this will happen, just saying that it is possible.
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