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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I’d like to see the Pats hire Wes Welker to be the new OC. He’s already worked with Bill O’Brien in Houston as well as Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco and Mike McDaniel in Miami. Experienced wide receiver who also was Jerod Mayo’s teammate. Zac Robinson is another who might actually make more sense if the Pats are bringing in a young QB.
The downside to BoB leaving is that’s one less veteran coach for Mayo to lean on. He could use someone on his staff who has had some success as head coach.
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Boston
Footballguy
Good...BB did him no favors and put him in a no-win situation and I have heard he's a real good guy, but I didn't want him back...that offense was beyond ugly last year and it needs a complete re-boot.
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greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
On the plus side, has tons of experience. Nowhere to go but up 
Boston
Footballguy
Very underwhelming.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
So it always seemed like a pipe dream to land one of those younger guys from the Shanahan/McVay tree because who in their right mind would want to inherit this mess of an offense when they’re trying to make an impression? So they go with the retread who was just fired as OC of the last team he was on. 19 years of coaching experience which is a positive but only 1 of them as a playcaller (2009 in Buffalo, Stefanski called the plays in Cleveland). This team is most likely going to stink for the next couple of years, so I can see why they’d go with someone like Van Pelt for now, and once they build up the talent on offense, try their hand again at a newer OC down the line. This was probably the least desired coordinator position in the league given the sorry state of the offense. They need to hit with these next couple of draft and free agency cycles in a big way.
Boston
Footballguy
As you touch on a lot of the chatter has been how the O is in such a bad state that this job looks to be pretty hopeless and it was scaring away potential candidates (on the flipside if you were to get something out of it in 2024 your value would go right to the head of the class but that is very wishful thinking)...it is truly amazing and sad just how much BB the GM destroyed this side of the ball...it's an embarrassment...no QB, not one TE under contract for 2024, an awful WR unit with two bad contracts, only one RB and an O line that not only needs to be upgraded but could lose one of the few young, quality talents on that side of the ball...while I should be looking ahead the thing that I can't forgive is that it was beyond obvious to see this was happening and BB kept traveling the same foolish path...just unacceptable...now back to the present...I am concerned by what I have seen post-BB (there is no debate IMO he had to go...I don't find that even worthy of debate)...I hope I am wrong but outside of the Mayo hire it just doesn't feel they were really prepared for the post-BB era when they had plenty of time to prepare for it...someone on the radio said it feels like that as much as they knew what BB did now that he is gone they are realizing it was even more and it is surprising them...this hire really underwhelms me...the good news is he seems to have a good history with QBs which will be his most important task (especially if they go QB at #3) but it just feels like he should be a hire as a QB coach and not an OC...at his age with his resume I'm not really seeing it...that being said my main concern is the front office...just not pleased they were not ready to put together this unit as soon as BB was gone...no matter who is coaching if they don't start nailing drafts and upgrading the talent on the roster it won't matter who the HC, DC and OC is...I am still in shock that they have not brought in someone from outside of the 2023 staff to take over this department...I know BB was disregarding a lot of what some of these guys were recommending but they were still part of a bad department, and I am going to need to see them knock FA and the draft out-of-the-park for me to feel comfortable that this is the correct path post-BB...now that it is February and the big pieces of the coaching staff are in-place all eyes are on personnel and we are going to find out real quickly whether they can begin the process of digging out of this big hole or if we are in for some old-school Pats nonsense that many fans have never had to endure...looking at you Rod Rust.
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Boston
Footballguy
From Bedard about Van Pelt:
What I like and what I think the Patriots liked:
What I like and what I think the Patriots liked:
- Extensive experience developing QBs and was one himself. That's a plus over someone like Nick Caley.
- He's known as a player-friendly coach. His QBs love him. A nurturer. He's known as a very good QB coach.
- He knows the job and what's required.
- Scheme is QB-friendly and time-tested.
- If you wanted a departure from the old scheme, this is one way to do it.
- His scheme is pretty old school. Sure, he could have learned from new tricks from Kevin Stefanski, but that stuff is overrated. This is a pretty boring scheme.
- If you were hoping for Shanahan or McVay systems, this is not it.
- In a sense, the Patriots moved from the 1970s with the E-P system to the 1980s with the WC offense.
- That Rodgers loved it/him is not a feather in his cap — Rodgers loves Nathaniel Hackett too.
- Mike McCarthy thought Van Pelt got too close to Rodgers. Nobody's really sure why he got fired in Green Bay.
- Been fired/let go a lot.
- Stefanski called plays with Browns.
- Before this last season, Van Pelt never coordinated a top 14 offense (points).
- This could be viewed as Wolf trying to generate some power in the organization. "Wolf driving the bus on this one," a source told Mike Giardi.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Similar to what I posted in the general coaching hires thread, I don't love what NE has done in the initial stages of life post-Bill. The HC and DC have never called plays or been the primary game planner or scheme developer. The new OC seems like he's been more of an assistant to head coaches that were play callers. So not a lot of experience in installing systems, calling plays, or making decisions. The front office apparently will be comprised of the guys that were already there . . . and what put the team in the situation they find themselves in was the poor roster management decisions the past 5 years.
I'm not sure if the choice to go with a kindler, gentler, happier coaching staff will make up for what appears to be a bunch of guys with limited experience taking over. And while BB was the ultimate arbiter of personnel decisions, I find it odd that everyone wants to just point their fingers at Bill and think everything will be better by addition by subtraction. I'll give the new regime the benefit of the doubt in terms of scouting and draft preparation (ie, it can't be worse than the past few years). But I suspect contract negotiation and cap management may be an issue.
I would guess that the top tier free agents will either get tagged or extended by their current teams. And the next layer of free agents probably wouldn't want to play in NE. That leaves third tier free agents that are probably not game changers, who will see the Pats as a place that will overpay and hand out both more per year and more years on a contract. If the Pats don't do that, the only players left may be on par with the mediocre guys they already have. Put another way, I don't see them signing Cousins, Higgins, Pittman, or Evans. If they wanted to shell out the money, they could probably bring in one of the high-priced FA RB (Barkley, Henry, Jacobs) . . . but is that a good use of financial resources? Would they be much better off signing a WR like Darnell Mooney, Gabe Davis, or Curtis Samuel for 3/$50M? Hunter Henry may be the best FA TE on the market . . . and would they want to reup with him?
The Pats have 3 of the Top 25 free agents in Onwenu, Brown, and Dugger . . . and they are more apt to lose them than keep them (I realize many don't love Brown, but he was productive when he played). It's nice that they have cap dollars to spend . . . but who is really worth going after and potentially overpaying?
I'm not sure if the choice to go with a kindler, gentler, happier coaching staff will make up for what appears to be a bunch of guys with limited experience taking over. And while BB was the ultimate arbiter of personnel decisions, I find it odd that everyone wants to just point their fingers at Bill and think everything will be better by addition by subtraction. I'll give the new regime the benefit of the doubt in terms of scouting and draft preparation (ie, it can't be worse than the past few years). But I suspect contract negotiation and cap management may be an issue.
I would guess that the top tier free agents will either get tagged or extended by their current teams. And the next layer of free agents probably wouldn't want to play in NE. That leaves third tier free agents that are probably not game changers, who will see the Pats as a place that will overpay and hand out both more per year and more years on a contract. If the Pats don't do that, the only players left may be on par with the mediocre guys they already have. Put another way, I don't see them signing Cousins, Higgins, Pittman, or Evans. If they wanted to shell out the money, they could probably bring in one of the high-priced FA RB (Barkley, Henry, Jacobs) . . . but is that a good use of financial resources? Would they be much better off signing a WR like Darnell Mooney, Gabe Davis, or Curtis Samuel for 3/$50M? Hunter Henry may be the best FA TE on the market . . . and would they want to reup with him?
The Pats have 3 of the Top 25 free agents in Onwenu, Brown, and Dugger . . . and they are more apt to lose them than keep them (I realize many don't love Brown, but he was productive when he played). It's nice that they have cap dollars to spend . . . but who is really worth going after and potentially overpaying?
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think they have to look at this as a longer term rebuild, any of the older guys you mentioned wouldn't make much sense.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Sadly, I think the collection of players and non-players they collect this offseason will serve as steppingstones to future players and non-players. I think they are so far away that the coaches won't be able to stick around to start winning, and guys they sign and draft now will be due contracts again before they turn things around. Any worthwhile rookies will need market value second contracts, and any short-term free agents will be up for renewal (and still expensive). They have to start somewhere, and I posted somewhere that I expect them to be picking in the Top 5-10 for 3 years before they are able to dig themselves out of the hole they are in. I'd rather that happened than them trying to pretend they are a player or two away.
Sure, they could luck out and find some of the pieces they need, but IMO that seems pretty unlikely to hit on a ton of guys all at once. It certainly would help if they found the next big thing at QB (but who well could he really do with the talent on offense)? IMO, they need a lot more than Burrow or Stroud (although someone like that could expedite the rebuild). For example, the Chargers have Herbert, but at this point they have still been mostly disappointing and underperformed.
Boston
Footballguy
Bert Breer with some insight on AVP...feels like with a young and inexperienced staff he is going to be the adult in the room...maybe a good locker-room fit but will that translate to x's and o's?
www.nbcsportsboston.com
That job history makes Van Pelt far more experienced than the other candidates who interviewed for New England's vacant OC position.
"After the year the Patriots just came off of, I think at one point the idea was somebody like Van Pelt as a senior offensive assistant and then a younger play-caller," Breer added. "I think I might feel slightly better about it if that was the way it was, but AVP is way more qualified than a lot of the other guys they interviewed."
Breer: Alex Van Pelt ‘was the glue' for Browns coaching staff
On 98.5 The Sports Hub’s “Zolak and Bertrand,” Albert Breer sheds some light on why Alex Van Pelt was fired from his offensive coordinator role in Cleveland, plus what he’ll bring to Jerod Mayo’s staff.
www.nbcsportsboston.com
That job history makes Van Pelt far more experienced than the other candidates who interviewed for New England's vacant OC position.
"After the year the Patriots just came off of, I think at one point the idea was somebody like Van Pelt as a senior offensive assistant and then a younger play-caller," Breer added. "I think I might feel slightly better about it if that was the way it was, but AVP is way more qualified than a lot of the other guys they interviewed."
Random Pats thoughts:
Athletic saying Wolf would be interested in taking an OT with the #3 pick. Which would be idiotic. This is a deep tackle class. If anything, they could trade down from #3 and target Alt or maybe move up from their 2nd round pick.
Also surprised that the Felger/Mazz crew is warming up to trading for Fields. I'd be curious how experts stack up Fields with a couple years under his belt vs. Williams/Maye/Daniels. Analyzing and evaluating all the QB options is their number one job right now IMHO. And determining if Marvin Harrison Jr. is indeed a generational talent that you can't pass at 3.
Securing J. Brisset seems like an absolute no brainer. Solid. Could hold down the fort with an empty cupboard if they decide they are not in love with the top 3 QBs and feel like a McCarthy is better value.
And now Ben Mcadoo. Yeesh.
Athletic saying Wolf would be interested in taking an OT with the #3 pick. Which would be idiotic. This is a deep tackle class. If anything, they could trade down from #3 and target Alt or maybe move up from their 2nd round pick.
Also surprised that the Felger/Mazz crew is warming up to trading for Fields. I'd be curious how experts stack up Fields with a couple years under his belt vs. Williams/Maye/Daniels. Analyzing and evaluating all the QB options is their number one job right now IMHO. And determining if Marvin Harrison Jr. is indeed a generational talent that you can't pass at 3.
Securing J. Brisset seems like an absolute no brainer. Solid. Could hold down the fort with an empty cupboard if they decide they are not in love with the top 3 QBs and feel like a McCarthy is better value.
And now Ben Mcadoo. Yeesh.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
If the salary cap wasn't a thing I'd agree. Problem is the salary cap would make it cost prohibitive to roster both Jefferson and Cousins on top of filling out the many, many holes on the roster. On top of that, I wouldn't realistically expect the Vikes to allow the Pats to not give them their 3rd overall pick as part of any deal for Jefferson. As much as I wish it were the case, this team isn't an easy fix. It's not ready to contend by a long shot. Cousins would get killed behind the offensive line that's currently under contract. As Pats fans we need to adjust our expectations and hope for signs of life from our core players going forward.
Boston
Footballguy
If the Pats could acquire Jefferson without including the #3 we have an early front-runner for Executive-of-the-Year.
Boston
Footballguy
Things are starting to come together with both the coaching and front office staff...I'm really not sure what to make of this all yet...I'm in a wait and see mode and will take the easy way out and let the results of this offseason dictate how I feel because it really is a blank slate and there is not much history to go on...one thing is certain...BB really left the team a mess and had to go...not sure how anyone can debate that at this point...I also feel the Krafts may not have been as prepared for the transition as I would have liked but I could be wrong about that because I really thought they would have had a new GM ready to go day 1 although it does appear it is Wolf's job to lose based on the results of this offseason...I really like the additions of Highsmith to the FO and Hightower to the coaching staff...unfortunately this is not going to be a quick turnaround...it is a weak roster and the AFC is pretty loaded right now...I would like to see them stop the bleeding this year and lay down the culture and foundation of the post-BB era...I'm not concerned with wins next season...the goal should be to build the beginning of a quality young nucleus and establish that Mayo and Wolf are the correct leaders to move forward with...in year 2 I'd like them to be competitive and in year 3 I'd like to see them in the mix for a playoff spot...I think that is very realistic.
As for this offseason I absolutely want a QB if you are sold on the member of Caleb-Maye-Daniels trio that is there at #3...I'd also like to see a veteran like Flacco or Brisset added to help with this transition and another QB drafted with a late pick...if they don't like a QB at #3 things would get really interesting...you could take Harrison or trade down but I would love to grab the QB this year and be in a position to trade their #1 next year as it will most likely be very high and if they don't need a QB they could potentially really cash in...as for the high #2 I'd like it to be either a WR or a tackle...those are obvious needs and there should be quality prospects on the board...the rest of the draft should be offense-heavy for obvious reasons (they have no young offensive talent)...in free agency I don't think they need to go for the home run...I'd like to see them get quality veterans that can help develop the culture while also filling some of the many holes on the team...this is not an over-night rebuild so I don't want them hurting future cap flexibility by making splashy moves this offseason just for the headlines...if they do go QB at #3 a main focus has to be adding some functional offensive pieces (both line and skill) that put the new QB in a position where he can develop correctly...IMO that has to be the main focus of this offseason if they go QB at #3...if they can take care of that position things get a lot easier going forward.
As for this offseason I absolutely want a QB if you are sold on the member of Caleb-Maye-Daniels trio that is there at #3...I'd also like to see a veteran like Flacco or Brisset added to help with this transition and another QB drafted with a late pick...if they don't like a QB at #3 things would get really interesting...you could take Harrison or trade down but I would love to grab the QB this year and be in a position to trade their #1 next year as it will most likely be very high and if they don't need a QB they could potentially really cash in...as for the high #2 I'd like it to be either a WR or a tackle...those are obvious needs and there should be quality prospects on the board...the rest of the draft should be offense-heavy for obvious reasons (they have no young offensive talent)...in free agency I don't think they need to go for the home run...I'd like to see them get quality veterans that can help develop the culture while also filling some of the many holes on the team...this is not an over-night rebuild so I don't want them hurting future cap flexibility by making splashy moves this offseason just for the headlines...if they do go QB at #3 a main focus has to be adding some functional offensive pieces (both line and skill) that put the new QB in a position where he can develop correctly...IMO that has to be the main focus of this offseason if they go QB at #3...if they can take care of that position things get a lot easier going forward.
Boston
Footballguy
From Bedard today:
FRONT OFFICE
Director of player personnel: Eliot Wolf
Director of player personnel (college): Matt Groh
Senior personnel advisor: Alonzo Highsmith
Senior personnel advisor (pro): Patrick Stewart
Pro scouting director: Steve Cargile
College scouting director: Camren Williams
Personnel coordinator: Brian Smith
Note: I don't know the exact titles. I'm approximating. I would be surprised if they demoted Groh in title.
COACHING STAFF
Head coach: Jerod Mayo
Offensive coordinator: Alex Van Pelt (Browns)
Senior offensive assistant: Ben McAdoo (Panthers)
QB: TC McCartney (Browns)
RB: Open
WR: Open (Troy Brown?)
TE: Open (Will Lawing? - McAdoo has coached TEs)
OL: Scott Peters
Assistant OL: Robert Kugler
Defensive coordiator: DeMarcus Covington
Defensive line: Jerry Montgomery (Packers)
Cornerbacks: Mike Pellegrino
Inside LBs: Dont’a Hightower
Outside LBs: Open (Rob Ninkovich rumored)
Safeties: Brian Belichick
Special teams: Jeremy Springer (Rams)
This is from a pay site so can only post a few blurbs...this is pretty encouraging as Bedard knows his stuff (he researches/watches film as much as anyone) and he is also a tough grader and not one to look at things thru rose-colored glasses:
Front office
I know I'm a bit biased because I have previously covered Wolf and Highsmith with the Packers — and I would have liked a comprehensive search (like the head coach) — but I love what they've done with the front office.
Defensive staff
Not much to say here other than the continuity is very promising, along with the promotion of Covington.
Offensive staff
So, yes, I continue to hate the Patriots' lack of process for GM, HC and OC. That being said, I really like this offensive staff. Now, I don't think they're going to be the greatest show on turf or anything, but I think the floor for this group, provided they get some players, is now fairly high — the middle of the league. That may not sound like much, but it's night and day compared to the past two years.
FRONT OFFICE
Director of player personnel: Eliot Wolf
Director of player personnel (college): Matt Groh
Senior personnel advisor: Alonzo Highsmith
Senior personnel advisor (pro): Patrick Stewart
Pro scouting director: Steve Cargile
College scouting director: Camren Williams
Personnel coordinator: Brian Smith
Note: I don't know the exact titles. I'm approximating. I would be surprised if they demoted Groh in title.
COACHING STAFF
Head coach: Jerod Mayo
Offensive coordinator: Alex Van Pelt (Browns)
Senior offensive assistant: Ben McAdoo (Panthers)
QB: TC McCartney (Browns)
RB: Open
WR: Open (Troy Brown?)
TE: Open (Will Lawing? - McAdoo has coached TEs)
OL: Scott Peters
Assistant OL: Robert Kugler
Defensive coordiator: DeMarcus Covington
Defensive line: Jerry Montgomery (Packers)
Cornerbacks: Mike Pellegrino
Inside LBs: Dont’a Hightower
Outside LBs: Open (Rob Ninkovich rumored)
Safeties: Brian Belichick
Special teams: Jeremy Springer (Rams)
This is from a pay site so can only post a few blurbs...this is pretty encouraging as Bedard knows his stuff (he researches/watches film as much as anyone) and he is also a tough grader and not one to look at things thru rose-colored glasses:
Front office
I know I'm a bit biased because I have previously covered Wolf and Highsmith with the Packers — and I would have liked a comprehensive search (like the head coach) — but I love what they've done with the front office.
Defensive staff
Not much to say here other than the continuity is very promising, along with the promotion of Covington.
Offensive staff
So, yes, I continue to hate the Patriots' lack of process for GM, HC and OC. That being said, I really like this offensive staff. Now, I don't think they're going to be the greatest show on turf or anything, but I think the floor for this group, provided they get some players, is now fairly high — the middle of the league. That may not sound like much, but it's night and day compared to the past two years.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
My opinion about the coaching staff and front offense remains unchanged. It feels like they didn't really have much of a plan, they settled on their 14th choices, and the guys they inserted are inexperienced. But we are so far away from seeing who's on the roster and how they do on the field that it's literally impossible to have any idea what they will look like and thus unfair to assess the staff until they make some decisions and win or lose some games. IMO, people praising their coaching and front office decisions are folks that were sick of BB (and thus anyone other than Bill is a step in the right direction).
Lots of chatter that Mac will be moved and won't be back. Also, ample talk and discussion of NE trading back and picking up more picks. Falcons at 8 and Minnesota at 11 being the most likely trade candidates. In this scenario, trade back and take a WR or OT and take a QB at 35 (or trade back into the first round to take Pennix or McCarthy or trade their 3rd for Fields). I suppose it depends on what they get back in return for the #3 pick. I am not morally opposed to it if the first two picks are QBs and they don't see much difference in the QB available at #3 vs. #35. Just because they have a high draft pick and need a QB doesn't mean the options available are worth the #3 pick. I could probably buy in to trading down a couple of times and stockpiling picks across multiple drafts and not even taking a QB early. I'd been in favor of building up the rest of the team first, picking Top 5 for multiple seasons, and then targeting their guy at QB. As things stand now, I suspect that a rookie QB would be killed behind the current OL and the lack of receiver help would not lend itself to much success by the team or the QB.
Lots of chatter that Mac will be moved and won't be back. Also, ample talk and discussion of NE trading back and picking up more picks. Falcons at 8 and Minnesota at 11 being the most likely trade candidates. In this scenario, trade back and take a WR or OT and take a QB at 35 (or trade back into the first round to take Pennix or McCarthy or trade their 3rd for Fields). I suppose it depends on what they get back in return for the #3 pick. I am not morally opposed to it if the first two picks are QBs and they don't see much difference in the QB available at #3 vs. #35. Just because they have a high draft pick and need a QB doesn't mean the options available are worth the #3 pick. I could probably buy in to trading down a couple of times and stockpiling picks across multiple drafts and not even taking a QB early. I'd been in favor of building up the rest of the team first, picking Top 5 for multiple seasons, and then targeting their guy at QB. As things stand now, I suspect that a rookie QB would be killed behind the current OL and the lack of receiver help would not lend itself to much success by the team or the QB.
Agree 100%.
However, its now in the hands of Wolf and company to evaluate these QBs. If they believe that whoever falls to them at 3 is an elite franchise QB, then they have to take him.
We all saw what Mahommes did and continues to do. When it counts he just finds a way to get it done. Give him an inch and he takes a mile. Even against a stacked SF lineup.
I hope this crew knows their stuff when it comes to QBs. The first order of business is the analysis of the top 3...along with J. Fields, K. Cousins, Mayfield and even Mac Jones.
Boston
Footballguy
Perry: Chiefs' title run presents clear lesson for rebuilding Pats
The outcome of Super Bowl 58 presents clear evidence for how the Patriots should proceed at the game’s most important position this offseason, writes Phil Perry.
www.nbcsportsboston.com
nightmare
Footballguy
Mahomes stepped into a playoff team.Perry: Chiefs' title run presents clear lesson for rebuilding Pats
The outcome of Super Bowl 58 presents clear evidence for how the Patriots should proceed at the game’s most important position this offseason, writes Phil Perry.
Boston
Footballguy
Latest Patriots coaching news continues massive offensive overhaul
Patriots tight ends coach Will Lawing reportedly will be the latest offensive assistant to leave New England amid an offseason of change.
www.nbcsportsboston.com
He sure did, but minus Mahomes this year KC doesn't win that game. Period. That's Perry's point.Mahomes stepped into a playoff team.Perry: Chiefs' title run presents clear lesson for rebuilding Pats
The outcome of Super Bowl 58 presents clear evidence for how the Patriots should proceed at the game’s most important position this offseason, writes Phil Perry.
And that's why it's critical this new crew determine if Maye or Daniels are that kind of difference maker to draft now despite all the holes to fill.
I can't wait for the combine.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Mahomes inherited a RB with 1782 YFS / 11 TD (Hunt), Tyreek (1242 / 7), and Kelce (1045 / 8) (all of them Pro Bowlers). Mahomes himself was replacing Alex Smith (who also was a Pro Bowler). They also had future multi-time Pro Bowl OT Fisher already on the roster.He sure did, but minus Mahomes this year KC doesn't win that game. Period. That's Perry's point.Mahomes stepped into a playoff team.Perry: Chiefs' title run presents clear lesson for rebuilding Pats
The outcome of Super Bowl 58 presents clear evidence for how the Patriots should proceed at the game’s most important position this offseason, writes Phil Perry.
And that's why it's critical this new crew determine if Maye or Daniels are that kind of difference maker to draft now despite all the holes to fill.
I can't wait for the combine.
The Patriots can offer none of that. If they end up taking a QB, my concern is they will be setting him up to fail with limited weapons, a porous O-line, a lack of playmakers at the skill positions, and a coaching staff that hasn't called plays before. As of now, they don't have a TE on the roster (or an OT that has any real game experience).
Put another way, put Patrick Mahomes on this team (the one that just won the SB), and I am not sure they could win 7 games.
Boston
Footballguy
Mahomes inherited a RB with 1782 YFS / 11 TD (Hunt), Tyreek (1242 / 7), and Kelce (1045 / 8) (all of them Pro Bowlers). Mahomes himself was replacing Alex Smith (who also was a Pro Bowler). They also had future multi-time Pro Bowl OT Fisher already on the roster.He sure did, but minus Mahomes this year KC doesn't win that game. Period. That's Perry's point.Mahomes stepped into a playoff team.Perry: Chiefs' title run presents clear lesson for rebuilding Pats
The outcome of Super Bowl 58 presents clear evidence for how the Patriots should proceed at the game’s most important position this offseason, writes Phil Perry.
And that's why it's critical this new crew determine if Maye or Daniels are that kind of difference maker to draft now despite all the holes to fill.
I can't wait for the combine.
The Patriots can offer none of that. If they end up taking a QB, my concern is they will be setting him up to fail with limited weapons, a porous O-line, a lack of playmakers at the skill positions, and a coaching staff that hasn't called plays before. As of now, they don't have a TE on the roster (or an OT that has any real game experience).
Put another way, put Patrick Mahomes on this team (the one that just won the SB), and I am not sure they could win 7 games.
So what do you think they should do about QB both short and long term? I believe you do not get cute and wait for the perfect moment to add one because you won’t have control over that…if you like one of the big three you take them and add a Brissett type if you don’t want to throw him to the wolves right away…if you are not sold with what is there at #3 then trade down and try to get one of the next group as well as adding another one late…I would rather not be in a position where they don ‘t have a QB of the future this year and are forced to make a move next off-season or have to trade draft picks to get it done.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't think they are good enough at the moment to be able to effectively develop a rookie QB, and the recent history of Top 5 picks has been less than ideal. Here are all the guys that went in the Top 5 in the past 10 years. Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Mitchell Trubisky, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, and Blake Bortles.
I am even more concerned if they have to take the third QB. I am not sold that any of the available rookie options will be in Stroud's class, so I would at least explore and entertain trading down and stockpiling picks. They would have to really, really love the guy still on the board at #3 and be convinced that he was an absolute stud. IMO, they can't ruin another QB like they did Mac.
They could drop down 5-10 spots and likely still chose from Bowers, a top-flight WR, or an OT. If they have a cracker jack scouting department without Bill around, maybe they trade down again for a guy they like later in the first round. I know that sounds counter intuitive, but if they end up with 2-3 more first rounders over the next two drafts (and some other draft capital), why not? They have a lot of holes to fill, they will have plenty of positions to target.
I don't follow the college game closely enough, but they may feel that Pennix, Nix, or McCarthy is "good enough" for now and could be there in the second round. Like you said, they could sign a bridge QB (or even give Zappe a few starts until someone else is ready). I would also rather they sign a swath of solid free agents that don't cost an arm and a leg than a couple of guys that scream being overpaid that won't be around long enough for them to be competitive again.
I am fine with them treading water for a couple more seasons, losing a lot, and building up the core of the team and then taking a stab at a rookie QB in the 2026 draft. They should still be drafting in the Top 10 then. Iif they don't sign a bunch of dead wood at free agents, they should have room to extend the younger guys or bring in a couple decent FA's, and then they might be a decent team in 2026. I would rather they take that approach than have them think they can change the entire roster and dynamic in a year or two. TBH, I don't think they could pull off a major turnaround like that in that short a time.
Boston
Footballguy
I agree with this with the very big exception of holding out till 2026 for the QB…I think that is very unrealistic…IMO you need to get it done earlier then that and if they don’t there is a very good chance the Mayo/Wolf regime will not be a long one…they have a great opportunity this year to bring in a quality young QB without giving up any assets (or possibly trading down and adding assets which would be a bonus)…now that doesn’t ’t mean they have to play this year as they can sit for a year and develop but I think you are in a much better spot going forward if you are not put in a position to force the position in a couple of years…best case scenario for me is they draft a potential young QB of the future so they are in a spot where they can trade down next year and cash in on having a high pick which I assume they will have.
nittanylion
Footballguy
I'd be thrilled if the WFT'skins would swap with the Patriots and acquire additional picks, then trade out of 1.03, moving further back in the 1st Round, and acquiring more selections.
Unfortunately, both Teams look pretty similar to me, and therefore, I think it's likely that both have similar agendas.
Unfortunately, both Teams look pretty similar to me, and therefore, I think it's likely that both have similar agendas.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I guess it depends if they think that potentially the third QB at #3 is can’t miss and that much better than a guy available at #35 (or late first if they want to trade up from the 2nd round . . . or move down from the top of the draft).
I look at the Chargers as an example. They have struggled to put together a complete team with Herbert and they have been middle of the pack or worse. Because of that, they have wasted his low dollar rookie contract. That’s one of the reasons I would consider adding the QB last. Like Mahomes, he would be starting with a decent team around him and have years of a low dollar contract to flesh out the team.
If they take a QB first, their record will likely still be terrible, but they probably won’t know if the player is “the guy” for several years. IMO, this coaching staff is already on life support and stands a realistic chance of not sticking around. I don’t see any realistic path to curing all that ails the offense in one offseason. They need QB, OT, OT, TE, TE, WR, WR, RB (and other depth at OL). Good luck with that all at once. They have Douglas at WR. I like Bourne if he can be resigned cheaply (which he likely will be). Not sure what FA wideouts would have any interest signing in NE.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I’d love to see the Pats trade the 1.03 and maybe a 3rd for Justin Jefferson and the 1.11
I was reading an article in The Athletic yesterday by their Patriot beat writer(who I'm not overly fond of) and the premise of his article was ranking into tiers the most valuable assets on the team(picks not included). Age and contract were factors and I knew it was bad but seeing that article made it look even bleaker then I realized from the outside. I'll just say it was bad enough that Demario Douglass, who I'm quite fond of a really good slot, ended up as a top 5 asset.
When I see that I'd have to be head over heels in love with the QB available to me at 3 to turn down strong offers to move back and gain more picks. But if I was I'd stick and pick, but I'm not settling for a QB in that spot.
When I see that I'd have to be head over heels in love with the QB available to me at 3 to turn down strong offers to move back and gain more picks. But if I was I'd stick and pick, but I'm not settling for a QB in that spot.
Boston
Footballguy
Trust me…I fully understand the talent-deficiency on O…I was beating that drum very loudly all last off-season…I would love to swap positions with the Chargers right now…they have a franchise QB and now can figure out the rest with Harbaugh…it is a much easier path when that position is filled…look at the Texans and Stroud…they seemed very far off last off-season and now they are a playoff team…if Stroud was not there last season they would be in a totally different spot right now…now I am not advocating taking a QB for the sake of taking a QB…that is foolish…but if you are in a fortunate position to draft a QB who your staff has identified as a potential franchise QB you do it because you just don’t know when you will get that opportunity again…it is a QB-first league and that is not going to change.
Boston
Footballguy
They are pretty much an expansion team on offense…it is embarrassing…what bothered me the past few years was it was so obvious to see what was happening…this was not a fluke…it was bad drafting, bad free agent signings and BB being arrogant enough to think he could coach anyone up.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I mean is there a single asset on offense that’s worth a damn?
Boston
Footballguy
I still think Stevenson is a good RB...he is also entering the last year of his deal...Andrews is a quality Center but he can't have much time left...I like Pop, he's a nice player but not someone you build around...Mike O can play but it would not be a surprise if it were somewhere else next year...it really is a disaster...as stated above it is an expansion team on offense...you couldn't make it worse if you tried.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Yeah, I was going through the roster and nobody really stood out on offense as much above replacement grade. Stevenson maybe but he looked pretty interchangeable with Zeke last season.
Boston
Footballguy
The Cole Strange pick bothers me even more then when it was made...stupid, reckless and totally unnecessary.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Demario Douglas might be the player on offense that would yield the most in a trade, that’s pretty sad lol.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
The Cole Strange- Thornton 1-2 was so, so, so stupid.
If you somehow believed that each of these two players were somehow worth falling in love with.. but to add the incredibly unlikely intel of where other teams had guys . It’s almost as if a scout and some of their intelligence was trying to set them up. I don’t believe that is what happened but what they did was so incredibly dumb that it seems plausible.
If you somehow believed that each of these two players were somehow worth falling in love with.. but to add the incredibly unlikely intel of where other teams had guys . It’s almost as if a scout and some of their intelligence was trying to set them up. I don’t believe that is what happened but what they did was so incredibly dumb that it seems plausible.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
And fwiw, Bedard nailed that. I was upset with his coverage, and his coverage of the Patricia-Judge thing. I ditched my sub because I thought he was being too negative. He was 100 % right. Mea culpa
That's what I was getting at with the post I made above.
That article from The Athletic, which is here: https://theathletic.com/5257222/2024/02/12/patriots-offseason-free-agency-trade/, listed the most valued NE players and used contract and age as part of the equation and Douglass was the only player on offense to be in the top 5 players, which made up the top 3 tiers. In other words that article considered him the most valuable asset on the offense, that's jarring.
With so many holes to fill, lot of talk of trading down and getting more picks. I still say if you believe in one of the top three QBs, you take one.
Another avenue to gaining more picks: Trading Judon.
Guy is great, but he's also 31 and doesn't really line up with a rebuild. Could get a K. Mack type haul for him. Maybe add a 2nd anyway.
Another avenue to gaining more picks: Trading Judon.
Guy is great, but he's also 31 and doesn't really line up with a rebuild. Could get a K. Mack type haul for him. Maybe add a 2nd anyway.
Boston
Footballguy
IMO the reality is there are so many holes that passing on a stud QB for more picks will not have the short-term effect many think and could greatly damage them long-term if the QB they pass on is legit...I would like to see them use free agency to bring in as many competent veterans on short-term contracts as possible (kind of what they did going into the 2001season although that team had more pieces already in-place)...you can even overpay a bit as long as it does not hurt future cap flexibility...this year is about stopping the bleeding and building a culture that will allow you to move forward...do that, nail the draft and they can deal next year's #1 (which should be very high) when those extra picks can make a bigger difference.
As for Judon it would really depend on what the return is...he will be 32 in August coming off a season-ending injury so I'm not sure how much you can get for him...he appears to want to be here and is a leader so he may have more value in the locker-room then what you could get for him...also, the D is a positive and gives them a little bit of an identity and could help them remain somewhat competitive instead of being a total train wreck.
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Boston
Footballguy
Pats release that stiff Trent Brown:
www.nbcsportsboston.com
Lawrence Guy and Adrian Phillips also released...no surprise with Phillips at all...Guy was a solid player but at 33 years old it is probably best for both parties:
www.patspulpit.com
James Ferentz has retired:
twitter.com
Report: Patriots OT Trent Brown to become free agent
Trent Brown’s second stint with the Patriots appears to be over.
www.nbcsportsboston.com
Lawrence Guy and Adrian Phillips also released...no surprise with Phillips at all...Guy was a solid player but at 33 years old it is probably best for both parties:
Patriots release pair of veteran defenders, per report
New England is parting ways with two of its most experienced defenders.
www.patspulpit.com
James Ferentz has retired:
x.com
twitter.com
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I’m appreciative of how big a help Brown was for that 2018 title run. But keeping him motivated always seemed to be a problem with him, and things are never his fault. Good riddance.Pats release that stiff Trent Brown:
Report: Patriots OT Trent Brown to become free agent
Trent Brown’s second stint with the Patriots appears to be over.
Lawrence Guy and Adrian Phillips also released...no surprise with Phillips at all...Guy was a solid player but at 33 years old it is probably best for both parties:
Patriots release pair of veteran defenders, per report
New England is parting ways with two of its most experienced defenders.
James Ferentz has retired:
x.com
Hope Guy can keep his career going, I liked him being around but just seems like a league average player at this point. Same with Phillips.
Ferentz can’t rely on nepotism anymore with Belichick gone. He was below average even by backup OL standards. Wasn’t going to have much of a market for his services anyway so may as well retire.