Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (4 Viewers)

[kyoun1e]

You know, if Vrabel and company don't think W. Campbell is a slam dunk LT at #4 AND Hunter and Carter are gone AND they can't trade down why not...

...draft A. Jeanty?

They need playmakers. He's a playmaker.

Campbell's issues are well documented at this point. He has flaws. My question is, how much better is he really than say J. Connerly who should be available at pick 38? Again, if he's not a slam dunk at 4, why reach for him there?

By all accounts, Jeanty looks like the real deal. He's a tackle breaking machine who can take it to the house. He is one of the "blue chippers" in this draft along with Hunter and Carter.

People hated DET taking J. Gibbs early. That seems to have worked out well.

Having Maye and Jeanty on rookie deals the next few years would be delish.

Seems like the buzz for Jeanty is increasing.

I wonder if there is a trade down opportunity with somebody like LV? With rumors JAX may be in on Jeanty, LV may want to leapfrog them.

NYGs and CLE taking calls on picks 2 and 3 with Hunter, Carter, Jeanty all in the mix.

A move down to 6 and one of Campbell or Membou are still there.

 

[Anarchy99]

Schefter and others have suggested that Boutte may be expendable as a choice of a different regime and could be a trade candidate leading up to the draft. If they want to go in a different direction, so be it. He's heading into Year 3 as a 6th round pick. He had a big game against the Bills with Milton but hasn't really done a ton. Not sure they would get much for him. What could they possibly get back in return? A 7th round pick or a pick swap?

 

[kyoun1e]

Schefter and others have suggested that Boutte may be expendable as a choice of a different regime and could be a trade candidate leading up to the draft. If they want to go in a different direction, so be it. He's heading into Year 3 as a 6th round pick. He had a big game against the Bills with Milton but hasn't really done a ton. Not sure they would get much for him. What could they possibly get back in return? A 7th round pick or a pick swap?

Yeah. Seriously. Like...that's worth reporting on?

 

[mjb03003]

Schefter and others have suggested that Boutte may be expendable as a choice of a different regime and could be a trade candidate leading up to the draft. If they want to go in a different direction, so be it. He's heading into Year 3 as a 6th round pick. He had a big game against the Bills with Milton but hasn't really done a ton. Not sure they would get much for him. What could they possibly get back in return? A 7th round pick or a pick swap?

Yeah. Seriously. Like...that's worth reporting on?

I agree they won't get a big return and it's hardly worth reporting on, but just wanted to throw it out there that Boutte is going into his 3rd year in the league and is not yet 23 years old, making him younger than some of the highly rated WR prospects in this draft (Tre Harris, Xavier Restrepo, Jack Bech) and barely older than several others (Egbuka, Noel, Higgins...). He might still have enough raw talent to entice some teams?

 

[greenmountaingoat]

You know, if Vrabel and company don't think W. Campbell is a slam dunk LT at #4 AND Hunter and Carter are gone AND they can't trade down why not...

...draft A. Jeanty?

They need playmakers. He's a playmaker.

Campbell's issues are well documented at this point. He has flaws. My question is, how much better is he really than say J. Connerly who should be available at pick 38? Again, if he's not a slam dunk at 4, why reach for him there?

By all accounts, Jeanty looks like the real deal. He's a tackle breaking machine who can take it to the house. He is one of the "blue chippers" in this draft along with Hunter and Carter.

People hated DET taking J. Gibbs early. That seems to have worked out well.

Having Maye and Jeanty on rookie deals the next few years would be delish.

That's like ordering new updated seats for your corvette restoration that still needs and engine and a transmission.

Please fix the OL

 

[kyoun1e]

You know, if Vrabel and company don't think W. Campbell is a slam dunk LT at #4 AND Hunter and Carter are gone AND they can't trade down why not...

...draft A. Jeanty?

They need playmakers. He's a playmaker.

Campbell's issues are well documented at this point. He has flaws. My question is, how much better is he really than say J. Connerly who should be available at pick 38? Again, if he's not a slam dunk at 4, why reach for him there?

By all accounts, Jeanty looks like the real deal. He's a tackle breaking machine who can take it to the house. He is one of the "blue chippers" in this draft along with Hunter and Carter.

People hated DET taking J. Gibbs early. That seems to have worked out well.

Having Maye and Jeanty on rookie deals the next few years would be delish.

That's like ordering new updated seats for your corvette restoration that still needs and engine and a transmission.

Please fix the OL

I'd only go Jeanty if the following conditions are met:

1. Hunter gone.
2. Carter gone.
3. Can't trade down.
4. There is not universal consensus that W. Campbell is a slam dunk.

If those conditions are met, I'd have no problem with them taking Jeanty.

And honestly, it's not like they can't try and solve this problem by trading back into the first round or in rounds 2 and 3.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

@kyoun1e - Here is my case:

2024-2025 Detroit had a very good OL, ARSB and LaPorta. Gibbs fits here. One could argue that if they'd gone defense with that pick, they wouldn't have gotten in as much golf as they ended up getting.
2025 Eagles had a very good OL, AJB Smith and other weapons. Barkley wouldn't have made the NYG a winning football team. Barkley played a role in the sustained success of that team over the course of the year but the DLine stealing Mahomes lunch money was more of the story of the SB.

I think in terms of the ability to run an offense, the LT plays a significantly more foundational role in the ways they can stress defenses and find success. As does a WR that can win outside and in man to man situations. Also of note that the majority of LT or WR that "hit" will have several years longer career than a RB.

W Campbell + 3rd round RB >>> 3rd round LT+ Jeanty. But that's like just my opinion, man.

 

[Anarchy99]

Talk today has folks suggesting that even if Carter falls to them, they are taking Campbell. Zeroing in on an outcome, barring a last-minute phone call with a trade offer that blows them away, they are taking Campbell. Some folks have said the powers that be have already told Maye they are taking Campbell. Maybe this is a giant smoke screen, but that's the narrative as we get to draft day.

 

[ffmail4me]

And you can’t blame them for wanting to protect Maye. He’s the real deal and the best asset they have.

 

[kyoun1e]

Talk today has folks suggesting that even if Carter falls to them, they are taking Campbell. Zeroing in on an outcome, barring a last-minute phone call with a trade offer that blows them away, they are taking Campbell. Some folks have said the powers that be have already told Maye they are taking Campbell. Maybe this is a giant smoke screen, but that's the narrative as we get to draft day.

That is just insane if true.

I can't imagine Vrabel would pass up Carter.

Haven't listened to Felger and the gang at all today so no clue what the local buzz is.

Really hoping either LV or Chicago try to trade up into #4 for Jeanty. Pats could still get one of Campbell/Membou/Banks at 6 or 10 and add a pick or two.

 

[ratbast]

Talk today has folks suggesting that even if Carter falls to them, they are taking Campbell. Zeroing in on an outcome, barring a last-minute phone call with a trade offer that blows them away, they are taking Campbell. Some folks have said the powers that be have already told Maye they are taking Campbell. Maybe this is a giant smoke screen, but that's the narrative as we get to draft day.

Might be smoke screen to possibly prevent someone moving to 3 for Carter.

 

[Boston]

Draft day...feels like it will be Campbell at #4 and I am very comfortable with that...Pats have accomplished a lot this offseason but the left-side of the line is still subpar (and that is probably being kind) and has to be addressed and crossing your fingers someone you like is available in the second round or in a potential trade up into the late first round seems like real risky business...Campbell has the pedigree and from everything I have read will be a team leader the second he walks into the locker-room and for where the Pats are and what Vrabel wants to build that is really important...I don't think a trade is out-of-the-question but with Sanders stock appearing to slip it will probably make this scenario difficult as the best path to a trade would probably be someone wanting Sanders at #4 or Sanders going at #2 or #3 and someone wanting to trade up to #4 for Carter but as of right now things don't seem to be unfolding towards either of those scenarios...I think some Pats fans will be disappointed with this pick but I think it is the fundamentally sound selection with this draft...if Campbell is the real deal the Pats would have potential young franchise players at QB, LT, CB and interior D-line...that is a great foundation and will allow for a lot of draft and free agent flexibility going forward...all that being said watch them surprise everyone and take either Jeanty, Walker or McMillan.

 

[kyoun1e]

Draft day...feels like it will be Campbell at #4 and I am very comfortable with that...Pats have accomplished a lot this offseason but the left-side of the line is still subpar (and that is probably being kind) and has to be addressed and crossing your fingers someone you like is available in the second round or in a potential trade up into the late first round seems like real risky business...Campbell has the pedigree and from everything I have read will be a team leader the second he walks into the locker-room and for where the Pats are and what Vrabel wants to build that is really important...I don't think a trade is out-of-the-question but with Sanders stock appearing to slip it will probably make this scenario difficult as the best path to a trade would probably be someone wanting Sanders at #4 or Sanders going at #2 or #3 and someone wanting to trade up to #4 for Carter but as of right now things don't seem to be unfolding towards either of those scenarios...I think some Pats fans will be disappointed with this pick but I think it is the fundamentally sound selection with this draft...if Campbell is the real deal the Pats would have potential young franchise players at QB, LT, CB and interior D-line...that is a great foundation and will allow for a lot of draft and free agent flexibility going forward...all that being said watch them surprise everyone and take either Jeanty, Walker or McMillan.

I'm not loving Campbell, but coming around to him a bit.

In another year or another draft, I'm not sure he's in the top half of the draft. That said, he would fill a need and it "feels" like he has a safe floor (even if that floor says he's a guard).

I think the only chance of a trade down now is CHI desperately wanting Jeanty and moving from 10 to 4. We'd probably be able to get another 2nd rounder here. However, I wonder if all of Campbell/Membou/Banks are gone for OTs. That may lead us to T. Warren if this scenario unfolds.

If Campbell at 4, I really hope we get one of J. Higgins, J. Noel, or K. Williams at WR. Don't love Tet's value when he's arguably NOT the top WR in the draft. Could also see them doubling up on the line in round two with guard D. Jackson from Ohio State. Would be great to also nab D. Sampson at RB.

 

[Boston]

Draft day...feels like it will be Campbell at #4 and I am very comfortable with that...Pats have accomplished a lot this offseason but the left-side of the line is still subpar (and that is probably being kind) and has to be addressed and crossing your fingers someone you like is available in the second round or in a potential trade up into the late first round seems like real risky business...Campbell has the pedigree and from everything I have read will be a team leader the second he walks into the locker-room and for where the Pats are and what Vrabel wants to build that is really important...I don't think a trade is out-of-the-question but with Sanders stock appearing to slip it will probably make this scenario difficult as the best path to a trade would probably be someone wanting Sanders at #4 or Sanders going at #2 or #3 and someone wanting to trade up to #4 for Carter but as of right now things don't seem to be unfolding towards either of those scenarios...I think some Pats fans will be disappointed with this pick but I think it is the fundamentally sound selection with this draft...if Campbell is the real deal the Pats would have potential young franchise players at QB, LT, CB and interior D-line...that is a great foundation and will allow for a lot of draft and free agent flexibility going forward...all that being said watch them surprise everyone and take either Jeanty, Walker or McMillan.

I'm not loving Campbell, but coming around to him a bit.

In another year or another draft, I'm not sure he's in the top half of the draft. That said, he would fill a need and it "feels" like he has a safe floor (even if that floor says he's a guard).

I think the only chance of a trade down now is CHI desperately wanting Jeanty and moving from 10 to 4. We'd probably be able to get another 2nd rounder here. However, I wonder if all of Campbell/Membou/Banks are gone for OTs. That may lead us to T. Warren if this scenario unfolds.

If Campbell at 4, I really hope we get one of J. Higgins, J. Noel, or K. Williams at WR. Don't love Tet's value when he's arguably NOT the top WR in the draft. Could also see them doubling up on the line in round two with guard D. Jackson from Ohio State. Would be great to also nab D. Sampson at RB.

Bedard was hammering home two points yesterday…one, this draft is different than other years in that the top-end talent is thin (and the lack of legit QBs hurts as well)…two, if the Pats don’t improve their O-line it has a chance to derail their season before it starts…like you he was originally not all in on Campbell but after watching more of him and combining those other two points he now thinks he is the smart pick if they stay at #4…like you he also mentioned Jackson as a possibility for their second pick and really beefing up the O-line.

 

[Anarchy99]

I know the spin on taking Campbell has been that they would be getting a starting tackle for the next decade. That sounds good in theory, and that would be a good outcome if that were to happen. I was curious how things have played out for tackles taken in the Top 5. Here's how Top 5 drafted tackles have done going back 15 seasons . . .

2020 1.04 - Andrew Thomas NYG: 5 years as a starter, 1 team, 0 Pro Bowls, 1 2nd team All Pro
2014 1.02 - Greg Robinson LAR: 6 years as a starter, 3 teams, 0 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro
2013 1.01 - Eric Fisher KC: 2 teams, 9 years as a starter, 2 teams, 2 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro
2013 1.02 - Luke Joeckel JAX: 2 teams, 5 years as a starter, 0 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro
2013 1.04 - Lane Johnson PHI: 1 team, 12 years as a starter, 6 Pro Bowls, 5 1st or 2nd team All Pro
2012 1.04 - Matt Kalil MIN: 2 teams, 6 years as a starter, 1 Pro Bowl, 0 All Pro
2010 1.04 - Trent Williams WAS: 2 teams, 14 years as a starter, 11 Pro Bowls, 4 1st or 2nd team All Pro
2009 1.02 - Jason Smith LAR: 2 teams, 4 years as a starter, 0 Pro Bowl, 0 All Pro

We can debate what makes a pick "worth it," but only 2 of those guys were long-term, impact starters. But getting a 10-year, same team starter at tackle seems like wishful thinking for any team taking a tackle in the Top 5. The book hasn't been written on Campbell yet, and hopefully he can have a productive career id he ends up as the pick.

 

[kyoun1e]

I know the spin on taking Campbell has been that they would be getting a starting tackle for the next decade. That sounds good in theory, and that would be a good outcome if that were to happen. I was curious how things have played out for tackles taken in the Top 5. Here's how Top 5 drafted tackles have done going back 15 seasons . . .

2020 1.04 - Andrew Thomas NYG: 5 years as a starter, 1 team, 0 Pro Bowls, 1 2nd team All Pro
2014 1.02 - Greg Robinson LAR: 6 years as a starter, 3 teams, 0 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro
2013 1.01 - Eric Fisher KC: 2 teams, 9 years as a starter, 2 teams, 2 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro
2013 1.02 - Luke Joeckel JAX: 2 teams, 5 years as a starter, 0 Pro Bowls, 0 All Pro
2013 1.04 - Lane Johnson PHI: 1 team, 12 years as a starter, 6 Pro Bowls, 5 1st or 2nd team All Pro
2012 1.04 - Matt Kalil MIN: 2 teams, 6 years as a starter, 1 Pro Bowl, 0 All Pro
2010 1.04 - Trent Williams WAS: 2 teams, 14 years as a starter, 11 Pro Bowls, 4 1st or 2nd team All Pro
2009 1.02 - Jason Smith LAR: 2 teams, 4 years as a starter, 0 Pro Bowl, 0 All Pro

We can debate what makes a pick "worth it," but only 2 of those guys were long-term, impact starters. But getting a 10-year, same team starter at tackle seems like wishful thinking for any team taking a tackle in the Top 5. The book hasn't been written on Campbell yet, and hopefully he can have a productive career id he ends up as the pick.

I don't have the exact stats handy but the data on tackles with Campbell's measurables are historically...bad...in terms of what it leads to down the road.

Betting on Campbell being an outlier here is risky business.

Understanding the data that's out there, Campbell has to significantly outperform for this to be a good pick.

Man...I want to believe.

 

[Bossman]

Imagine what we'd be discussing today if NE lost that week 17 game to BUF.
"I think NE should trade the 1.1 for the 1.3 and a future 1st...."

 

[Mingooch]

Bossman, you made me shed a tear

 

[King of the Jungle]

Imagine what we'd be discussing today if NE lost that week 17 game to BUF.
"I think NE should trade the 1.1 for the 1.3 and a future 1st...."

Oof…I did not even think about that…

 

[Boston]

Imagine what we'd be discussing today if NE lost that week 17 game to BUF.
"I think NE should trade the 1.1 for the 1.3 and a future 1st...."

The good news is we’ll be able to flip Joe Milton for a quality pick…oh wait…

 

[fruity pebbles]

Mayo is going to be hated in New England for a long time

 

[fruity pebbles]

It is what it is. To me the only guys worth taking at 4 are Campbell and Jeanty. There’s an obvious gap in talent from the third pick to the fourth but nothing we can do about it. Campbell has grown on me. Guys a dog and plays nasty. If he fails, it’s not going to be from lack of trying. Latest Jeremiah mock has three tackles going in the top 7. The one you like best at 4 isn’t a reach.

 

[Gatorade]

Schefter and others have suggested that Boutte may be expendable as a choice of a different regime and could be a trade candidate leading up to the draft. If they want to go in a different direction, so be it. He's heading into Year 3 as a 6th round pick. He had a big game against the Bills with Milton but hasn't really done a ton. Not sure they would get much for him. What could they possibly get back in return? A 7th round pick or a pick swap?

Dallas could trade a 7th for him.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Schefter and others have suggested that Boutte may be expendable as a choice of a different regime and could be a trade candidate leading up to the draft. If they want to go in a different direction, so be it. He's heading into Year 3 as a 6th round pick. He had a big game against the Bills with Milton but hasn't really done a ton. Not sure they would get much for him. What could they possibly get back in return? A 7th round pick or a pick swap?

Dallas could trade a 7th for him.

Boutte is better than Mingo, so they should offer a 3rd.

 

[kyoun1e]

D. Russini reporting that the Bears are attempting to trade up to get Jeanty. If that's the case, you have to jump over JAX at 5 (who is also rumored to be interested in Jeanty).

If you are NE, why don't you trade down to 10?

If there is reporting that there was a deal on the table that was more than reasonable and they refuse, Gillette could burn tonight.

 

[fruity pebbles]

D. Russini reporting that the Bears are attempting to trade up to get Jeanty. If that's the case, you have to jump over JAX at 5 (who is also rumored to be interested in Jeanty).

If you are NE, why don't you trade down to 10?

If there is reporting that there was a deal on the table that was more than reasonable and they refuse, Gillette could burn tonight.

Guess it depends what they get for dropping back. Likely they miss on the top 3 tackles at 10.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Serious question, why would any organization leak anything that they actually have interest in doing? Are we saying that someone within the organization is actually providing people on the outside actual legitimate information?

 

[kyoun1e]

D. Russini reporting that the Bears are attempting to trade up to get Jeanty. If that's the case, you have to jump over JAX at 5 (who is also rumored to be interested in Jeanty).

If you are NE, why don't you trade down to 10?

If there is reporting that there was a deal on the table that was more than reasonable and they refuse, Gillette could burn tonight.

Guess it depends what they get for dropping back. Likely they miss on the top 3 tackles at 10.

I'd think there's a good chance Banks is there. If not, pivot to trade up late first round with extra draft picks.

Simmons could end up being better than all of them.

 

[fruity pebbles]

D. Russini reporting that the Bears are attempting to trade up to get Jeanty. If that's the case, you have to jump over JAX at 5 (who is also rumored to be interested in Jeanty).

If you are NE, why don't you trade down to 10?

If there is reporting that there was a deal on the table that was more than reasonable and they refuse, Gillette could burn tonight.

Guess it depends what they get for dropping back. Likely they miss on the top 3 tackles at 10.

I'd think there's a good chance Banks is there. If not, pivot to trade up late first round with extra draft picks.

Simmons could end up being better than all of them.

I mean I’d personally do it for the 10 and 39 but I can’t envision a team trading that much for a RB.

 

[Boston]

D. Russini reporting that the Bears are attempting to trade up to get Jeanty. If that's the case, you have to jump over JAX at 5 (who is also rumored to be interested in Jeanty).

If you are NE, why don't you trade down to 10?

If there is reporting that there was a deal on the table that was more than reasonable and they refuse, Gillette could burn tonight.

Guess it depends what they get for dropping back. Likely they miss on the top 3 tackles at 10.

Also depends on how they have Campbell (or whoever else they could be thinking of taking at 1.4) graded...we can talk all we like but if they have graded Campbell as a potential franchise LT (or have another player at 1.4 as a potential stud) I see no reason to make a move that only nets 1 second round pick...especially if you then get in a situation where you then have to trade draft capital to move back into the first to address the O line.

 

[Boston]

Just a reminder that Vedarian Lowe is currently the starter at LT for the Pats...I like the Moses signing a lot but he is also 34 years old and God forbid he gets hurt and you now have Lowe and Jacobs as your tackles...hopefully Layden Robinson can take a step forward or Strange somehow figures it out (what a stupid use of a first round pick) but the left-side of the line is not NFL caliber right now...fingers crossed that between Robinson, Wallace and Sow someone develops but there is no way the Pats can go into this season with this unit as is...IMO they need to come out of this draft with at least two legit rookies and one of them needs to be from that first tier of tackle prospects and I would have zero issues if their first two picks are O-line...they have to protect Maye.

 

[fruity pebbles]

lol Campbell’s arms look abnormally short just walking out on stage.

 

[Boston]

lol Campbell’s arms look abnormally short just walking out on stage.

Tonight would be so much easier if a guy that is 6'6" 319lbs had longer arms...nothing is easy anymore since TB12 left.

 

[Dynasty]

I mean I’d personally do it for the 10 and 39 but I can’t envision a team trading that much for a RB.

That trade works out almost perfectly according to the draft chart.

If Chicago thinks a running back is worth the #4 pick, I don't think they'll be put off by a pure draft chart trade.

 

[fruity pebbles]

That could have been the Patriots haul. Move down to #5 for a high 2nd, a 4th and a 1st in 26 from a lousy team

 

[Boston]

That could have been the Patriots haul. Move down to #5 for a high 2nd, a 4th and a 1st in 26 from a lousy team

Joe Milton will always have a legacy here…that deal would have been perfect for the Pats and probably could have been a little more because it would have been for Ward…Mayo’s revenge.

 

[fruity pebbles]

That could have been the Patriots haul. Move down to #5 for a high 2nd, a 4th and a 1st in 26 from a lousy team

Joe Milton will always have a legacy here…that deal would have been perfect for the Pats and probably could have been a little more because it would have been for Ward…Mayo’s revenge.

I wish they would rehire Mayo just so they could fire him again

 

[Boston]

That could have been the Patriots haul. Move down to #5 for a high 2nd, a 4th and a 1st in 26 from a lousy team

Joe Milton will always have a legacy here…that deal would have been perfect for the Pats and probably could have been a little more because it would have been for Ward…Mayo’s revenge.

I wish they would rehire Mayo just so they could fire him again

No way that Sean McDermott did not get a chuckle at the Pats expense after that deal was announced.

 

[Dynasty]

We're in the "trade down is best" scenario now.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Ugh. After that Browns haul, this is gonna land like a wet fart

 

[Anarchy99]

Campbell it is.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I’m surprised Campbell can reach far enough to shake Goodell’s hand

 

[Boston]

After what they did in free agency it had to be...they could not go into the season with that left-side.

 

[Dynasty]

Is being an inch and a half shorter than expected really so important for a man?

 

[Boston]

"I'm gonna fight and die"...Dante may come out of retirement for this kid.

 

[Anarchy99]

I’m surprised Campbell can reach far enough to shake Goodell’s hand

Moving forward, I’m calling him T-Rex.

 

[Anarchy99]

Is being an inch and a half shorter than expected really so important for a man?

It shouldn’t, but the history is certainly not in his favor.

 

[Boston]

Now the fun really begins...do they trade back into the 1st?

 

[fruity pebbles]

Now the fun really begins...do they trade back into the 1st?

Hope so. They still need a left tackle.

 

[Dynasty]

Now the fun really begins...do they trade back into the 1st?

For what?

Most of the speculation about trading back into the 1st was to get a tackle if they went defense (Carter, Graham) with the #4 pick.