Boston
Footballguy
Disagree...the talk was tackle if they passed on Campbell or WR if they took Campbell...I would not rule out trying to add another O-lineman as well.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Disagree...the talk was tackle if they passed on Campbell or WR if they took Campbell...I would not rule out trying to add another O-lineman as well.
I think they'd trade back into the first round for a WR...Burden, Higgins.
If not, wouldn't be surprised to see them jump up for G D. Jackson.
Boston
Footballguy
Probably don't have the ammo to get high enough but there was lot of chatter that they really liked Walker.
He's sliding...
Dynasty
Footballguy
Guard is supposed to be a reasonably deep position in this draft. There should be some options available in the second round.
I think Center is weak in this draft.
Boston
Footballguy
Pats are in position to get a good player with the 6th pick of the second round...after all the investments on D in free agency I'd like to see them add another piece to the O...there are some very intriguing names out there:
T
Ersery
Trapillo
G
Ratledge
Savalinaea
RB
Henderson
Judkins
Johnson
Sampson
WR
Noel
Higgins
Burden
Harris
TE
Taylor
Arroyo
This pick will be a big one for the Vrabel regime going forward and I don't think anyone would be shocked if they go D but for this post let's zero in on O...Polk added zero last year at almost this exact same spot (he was 5th)...this is the type of pick that if they nail we'll have a lot more confidence in the front office going forward...it's not flashy but I don't think anyone can complain if they double-dip and go O-line...if they were to come out of this draft with two future starters on the O-line that would be a monster step forward...there are definitely names at the skill position that would get the fans excited...not gonna lie, those RBs (especially the OSU boys) definitely intrigue me...the other positions are probably a bigger need and the RB pool is deep but the fan in me would love to see someone electric like Henderson teamed up with Maye...would love to see their draft-board with regard to WR and TE...if they see a legit starter in that group that would be a quality addition...this is a really big pick for this franchise...if they are going to get out of this hole this is the type of pick they need to hit on.
T
Ersery
Trapillo
G
Ratledge
Savalinaea
RB
Henderson
Judkins
Johnson
Sampson
WR
Noel
Higgins
Burden
Harris
TE
Taylor
Arroyo
This pick will be a big one for the Vrabel regime going forward and I don't think anyone would be shocked if they go D but for this post let's zero in on O...Polk added zero last year at almost this exact same spot (he was 5th)...this is the type of pick that if they nail we'll have a lot more confidence in the front office going forward...it's not flashy but I don't think anyone can complain if they double-dip and go O-line...if they were to come out of this draft with two future starters on the O-line that would be a monster step forward...there are definitely names at the skill position that would get the fans excited...not gonna lie, those RBs (especially the OSU boys) definitely intrigue me...the other positions are probably a bigger need and the RB pool is deep but the fan in me would love to see someone electric like Henderson teamed up with Maye...would love to see their draft-board with regard to WR and TE...if they see a legit starter in that group that would be a quality addition...this is a really big pick for this franchise...if they are going to get out of this hole this is the type of pick they need to hit on.
Bossman
Footballguy
They have been soooo bad at drafting WRs...
I think I have PTSD from it.
I understand the need but I'm now conditioned to believe any WR they draft before round 4 is a wasted pick.
Boston
Footballguy
Tough to feel any different about them drafting that position...what makes it even worse is if they pass on one of them it almost guarantees they will be good.
Good post. Henderson or Taylor would be fun. I'm fully expecting more O-line though.
Fully agree.
I'd love for them to get one of the Iowa State guys in Noel or Higgins, but I fear they bypass O in the second for another edge guy. Wouldn't be surprised if it's Green out of Marshall or the BC guy.
If that happens, they could miss on all of the day 2 WR targets which would be a bummer. Chance a K. Williams makes it to them in the third.
Gotta think BCs O lineman is on their radar in round 3 with their linkage to O'Brien.
As an aside, watching Felger vs. the rest of the Boston sports media late last night was downright hilarious. It actually got borderline uncomfortable. He's so anti Cambell it's ridiculous...and for good reason...understanding all the data that Giardi had on tackles sub 33 inch arms. Felger clearly dying on that hill while the likes of Curren/Perry/Hoyer all backing the pick.
Boston
Footballguy
Bedard has a great article about it today (and he also says Campbell has his warts so he is not blind)...here is part of it:
Guessing there's a sizeable contingent of Patriots fans who were not all that thrilled the Patriots went with chalk and selected LSU's Will Campbell with the fourth overall pick.
Well, Mike Vrabel and the Patriots were right to do it. The rest of the first round told us that much.
Raise your hand if you were infuriated by the offensive line over the past couple of seasons.
I see everyone is raising their hands. Good job.
If you didn't use the fourth overall selection on a tackle, how were you going to do that? Trade back up into the first round? I see a lot of hands. Wait until the 38th pick? I see a few hands.
Don't mind the sentiment one bit. When your team picks fourth overall, you want some instant impact, pizzazz, all that stuff. Understandable.
It's also fantasyland. It's not reality.
How did the Patriots get into this totally predictable mess? Bill Belichick kept passing on tackles, even a fourth-rounder like Dawand Jones in the 2023 draft. And then Eliot Wolf either got too snobby about value and didn't want to pay the freight, or was boxed out completely on not one but two tackle runs last year because, oh, 2/3rds of the league is looking for tackle play.
And those of you who said trade up or 38 ... you were just going to repeat a losing history? That was your plan? Thank goodness Vrabel and Co. decided to end all the foolish and just picked a damn good offensive lineman in Campbell.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Yup.
And moving forward, they should re-evaluate their board and:
Move up if there's someone that they love. Don't care which position. If they think there's a tier break somewhere and a stud on the board they should try.
If they stick, just draft BPA. Good teams scoop up value. End of story. Why are the Eagles and Ravens the only teams with GMs smart enough to do this?
On the other hand, I would not be upset if they draft only Offensive Linemen. Just empty the clip on the most important and broken part of the team. A stud QB with a dominant OL can carry a team. We've seen it. Even if the WRs are mediocre and the RB and TEs are merely good. That offense can score points and sustain drives. WR feels "unfixable" this year so why not just build the things that we know can be built. Give Polk, Baker, Boutte another year to develop. Henry and Pop are solid options.
Next year, Jeremiah Smith. They'll be drafting 1.10 or so, trade the 2026+2027 firsts to move up to 1.04 for him.
Edit- Smith is draft eligible in 2027. We're going to have to jedi mind this thing and do what the Bears did to Carolina.
And moving forward, they should re-evaluate their board and:
Move up if there's someone that they love. Don't care which position. If they think there's a tier break somewhere and a stud on the board they should try.
If they stick, just draft BPA. Good teams scoop up value. End of story. Why are the Eagles and Ravens the only teams with GMs smart enough to do this?
On the other hand, I would not be upset if they draft only Offensive Linemen. Just empty the clip on the most important and broken part of the team. A stud QB with a dominant OL can carry a team. We've seen it. Even if the WRs are mediocre and the RB and TEs are merely good. That offense can score points and sustain drives. WR feels "unfixable" this year so why not just build the things that we know can be built. Give Polk, Baker, Boutte another year to develop. Henry and Pop are solid options.
Next year, Jeremiah Smith. They'll be drafting 1.10 or so, trade the 2026+2027 firsts to move up to 1.04 for him.
Edit- Smith is draft eligible in 2027. We're going to have to jedi mind this thing and do what the Bears did to Carolina.
Last edited:
Bossman
Footballguy
I wouldn't mind if they traded back from 38.
Maybe Shedeur Sanders is still on the board there and a Rams/ Seahawks team comes up to get him?
With so many wants and needs, NEP must have a long list of players they want.
They could move back 10 or 15 slots and still get a quality fit ... and pick up some future draft capital.
Maybe Shedeur Sanders is still on the board there and a Rams/ Seahawks team comes up to get him?
With so many wants and needs, NEP must have a long list of players they want.
They could move back 10 or 15 slots and still get a quality fit ... and pick up some future draft capital.
Wouldn't mid that either.
I think there could be some chasing of QBs as well and maybe even the next tier of RBs (which I think we can wait on).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I knew Campbell's arms were a potential issue . . . but I didn't realize he had the shortest wingspan for all offensive tackles since they started taking measurements in 2011. That's 15 years' worth of prospects. Fingers crossed, but I don't see him making it as a tackle in the NFL going up against elite pass rushers. ESPN's comp for him is Dion Dawkins from BUF, who was the 63rd overall pick 8 years ago. Campbell will likely end up getting kicked inside to guard. Which, of course, means they still will need two tackles (Moses is already 34).
If they take another lineman or two in their next few picks, that would essentially be admitting that Strange / Wallace / Sow were wasted picks and likely not salvageable (and that their scrap head pickups and trades of guys off of other teams' practice squads are also suspect). I like Ersery and maybe Trapilo, but after that, I think there are a bunch of 3rd or 4th round guys that are similar. I probably would suggest passing on taking another guard, as they have a plethora of guys already that should be ok at guard. They could stand to take a center, but I don't think there are many noteworthy centers this draft.
If they take another lineman or two in their next few picks, that would essentially be admitting that Strange / Wallace / Sow were wasted picks and likely not salvageable (and that their scrap head pickups and trades of guys off of other teams' practice squads are also suspect). I like Ersery and maybe Trapilo, but after that, I think there are a bunch of 3rd or 4th round guys that are similar. I probably would suggest passing on taking another guard, as they have a plethora of guys already that should be ok at guard. They could stand to take a center, but I don't think there are many noteworthy centers this draft.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
It was the right pick in retrospect. Three tackles went in the top 10 and two guards went in the top 20. You either trust the decision makers or you don’t and they had their pick of o linemen and this is who they deemed the best. As hard as it is to pry away even average left tackles who aren’t over the hill, he just has to become mid level for this to be a perfectly fine selection.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Based on the post draft talk, it sounds like they liked Campbell for non-football / on-field reasons . . . leadership, knowledge of the game, memory retention, attention to detail, communication skills, overall smarts, etc. Those are all good qualities . . . but I am not sure how those translate to real-time, in the trenches, hand-to-hand combat at the highest level. Put another way, I have those same attributes, and I promise you I couldn't block a lick at the NFL level.
Bossman
Footballguy
Understood ... but if they used the pick received to take Cooper Dejean, Edgerin Cooper, Jonathon Brooks ... that trade would have been viewed completely differently.
Unfortunately they muffed it by taking Polk there ... because they were desperate for a WR.
They're in a much better spot this year and could go almost any direction with their next pick. Best player available.
This list by BOSTON has me salivating. Trade down 10 spots and you still get one of these guys;
T
Ersery
Trapillo
G
Ratledge
Savalinaea
RB
Henderson
Judkins
Johnson
Sampson
WR
Noel
Higgins
Burden
Harris
TE
Taylor
Arroyo
Ideally 2 teams would be in a bidding war for the #38 pick and drive up the price.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I mean he can play. In the NFLs minor leagues he gave up two sacks in his last 1000 dropbacks. The short arms are obviously the big concern. His body type also translates to a very powerful individual. He’s very bottom heavy so he’s going to be tough to move and he’s surprisingly quick on his feet. They say he has a powerful first punch and extremely strong hands which was confirmed by Vrabel after he put his butt on the ground during a workout.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There are probably 6 or 7 WR with 2nd round grades out there and the two TEs you mentioned. There are several suitably rated RBs, but I don't think they should be looking at RBs in Round 2. As far as trading down, not sure there are a ton of candidates for teams to trade up for (other than a QB), as there are still a number of "good" options available at a lot of positions (or no good options to move up for at others).
I still don't have faith they can hit on a rookie WR, as McDaniels' system is so complex that even veteran WRs have struggled to absorb it all and produce in it.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If only Campbell could go up against 49-year-old, not in game shape guys that haven't played in 15 years. He'd be awesome.
Yeah, I get it. He did well at LSU, but there's an infusion of better talent in the NFL than the SEC. The backups on NFL teams are better than 95% of guys on the field at the college level. We'll have to see how things go . . . not writing off Campbell before he takes a snap . . . but there certainly are reasons to wonder how well he will do given his physical proportions. The state of the NE OL could also pose a problem as they didn't work great together last year. They don't exactly have productive, seasoned guys that can keep an eye out and help him out. Hopefully Marrone can do a better job coaching them up. The handful of OL coaches that have been around since Scarnecchia retired have left a lot to be desired.
Bossman
Footballguy
You can wonder about any prospect coming out of college.
Bottom line is they used their first pick to take the best prospect available at a position of dire need in an effort to eliminate an issue that's plagued this team for way too long.
I do appreciate that they actually took a player where that player was projected to go unlike several drafts under Belichick ... (looking at you "first round draft pick Cole Strange" among others)
Dynasty
Footballguy
Rhamandre Stevenson signed a four-year, $36 million deal last summer.
It looks like the Pats can get out of the contract after the 2026 season without a dead-cap hit.
I'd expect a run-heavy offense from the Patriots as a way of assisting and protecting Drake Maye in the short term.
Maybe Rhamandre and Henderson are NE's version of Montgomery/Gibbs.
Glad they added to the offensive side of the ball.
Love the pick.
Dynasty
Footballguy
The Patriots have traded down twice in the third round.
Pick # 77 (the Judon pick) became # 85 and then became # 95.
The Patriots seem to have added a 2025 round 5 pick from Carolina (#146) and a 2026 round 4 pick from Kansas City (estimated high 120s/low 130s).
My quick draft chart math shows the Patriots losing a net 10 points with these trades.
Pick # 77 (the Judon pick) became # 85 and then became # 95.
The Patriots seem to have added a 2025 round 5 pick from Carolina (#146) and a 2026 round 4 pick from Kansas City (estimated high 120s/low 130s).
My quick draft chart math shows the Patriots losing a net 10 points with these trades.
Dynasty
Footballguy
We can at least say the Patriots didn't reach for any of their 2nd and 3rd round players.
Henderson and Williams seem to be picked close to their consensus ranking.
Wilson might have been a minor steal. He's someone that could have been picked at #77 and been a solid choice there.
Henderson and Williams seem to be picked close to their consensus ranking.
Wilson might have been a minor steal. He's someone that could have been picked at #77 and been a solid choice there.
Dynasty
Footballguy
Stolen from the main draft thread:
Here are the teams sorted by profit from trades, combining a few different trade value charts (JJ, Rich Hill, F-S, AV, Reinhard, Reinhard Empirical) and treating future picks as being worth the last (non-compensatory) pick of the round:
CLE (946, 1.30, 6/6)
LV (575, 1.32, 6/6)
LAR (289, 1.23, 6/6)
NE (264, 1.24, 5/6)
HOU (249, 1.07, 6/6)
TEN (183, 1.17, 4/6)
CHI (132, 1.07, 4/6)
DEN (83, 1.03, 6/6)
MIN (56, 1.11, 5/6)
PHI (51, 1.02, 3/6)
KC (-30, 0.98, 1/6)
BUF (-132, 0.94, 2/6)
CAR (-141, 0.94, 0/6)
SEA (-183, 0.88, 2/6)
MIA (-365, 0.76, 0/6)
ATL (-391, 0.81, 0/6)
DET (-429, 0.78, 0/6)
NYG (-445, 0.76, 0/6)
JAX (-714, 0.87, 0/6)
The first number in parentheses is the total profit, value gained minus value lost, averaging together 6 trade value charts where each one is scaled so that the first overall pick is worth 3000.
The second number is the return, value gained divided by value lost.
The third number is how many of the 6 trade value charts the team came out ahead on. e.g., NE came out ahead on their trades according to 5 of the 6 charts, but the Jimmy Johnson chart has them as slight losers, so they get 5/6.
Here are the teams sorted by profit from trades, combining a few different trade value charts (JJ, Rich Hill, F-S, AV, Reinhard, Reinhard Empirical) and treating future picks as being worth the last (non-compensatory) pick of the round:
CLE (946, 1.30, 6/6)
LV (575, 1.32, 6/6)
LAR (289, 1.23, 6/6)
NE (264, 1.24, 5/6)
HOU (249, 1.07, 6/6)
TEN (183, 1.17, 4/6)
CHI (132, 1.07, 4/6)
DEN (83, 1.03, 6/6)
MIN (56, 1.11, 5/6)
PHI (51, 1.02, 3/6)
KC (-30, 0.98, 1/6)
BUF (-132, 0.94, 2/6)
CAR (-141, 0.94, 0/6)
SEA (-183, 0.88, 2/6)
MIA (-365, 0.76, 0/6)
ATL (-391, 0.81, 0/6)
DET (-429, 0.78, 0/6)
NYG (-445, 0.76, 0/6)
JAX (-714, 0.87, 0/6)
The first number in parentheses is the total profit, value gained minus value lost, averaging together 6 trade value charts where each one is scaled so that the first overall pick is worth 3000.
The second number is the return, value gained divided by value lost.
The third number is how many of the 6 trade value charts the team came out ahead on. e.g., NE came out ahead on their trades according to 5 of the 6 charts, but the Jimmy Johnson chart has them as slight losers, so they get 5/6.
Bossman
Footballguy
At #77, I can't imagine they were in love with and eyeing just one player hoping he'd fall to them... twice.
I'll assume they had several guys they would have been happy with at #77 and were happy to trade back twice and take whoever was still available.
Excellent strategy to build draft capital.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
apparently wilson was taken a round later than most mocks.
Boston
Footballguy
Big fan of what they are doing this draft and this whole offseason quite frankly...after loading up on D in free agency they are attacking the other-side of the ball (as they should be)...Campbell has a chance to be a foundational piece...Henderson and Williams hopefully bring badly needed speed and big play ability...absolutely love the Henderson pick...the kid is electric but also a stud in pass-protection...Wilson is one of those how do you not like that pick...a potential future starting Center from Georgia who can also play guard...how do you not like that pedigree (actually the same goes for Campbell and Henderson...on paper how can you not like that)...after the trading they have a 4th (4th pick in that round), 3 #5's and 2 #7's (they netted an extra 2026 #4 in one of their deals and now have an extra 4th, 6th and 7th next year) so they have plenty of ammo to move around today and target specific players...would have zero issues continuing to go O heavy (especially some lottery ticket O-lineman) but would also be real happy if they can grab Jack Sawyer with that early 4th...overall I am very optimistic that the Pats are heading in the right direction with Vrabel in charge...after some really down years I feel rejuvenated.
Boston
Footballguy
Will be interesting to see if they double-dip at RB and WR...definitely some talent still there at both positions (especially RB) and if they grab one at either position it would make for some great camp battles...from a pure marketing standpoint they should draft Skattebo as their jersey sales would go thru the roof as every kid in New England would buy one.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Listening to Bedard's pod this morning- he's delighted. After years of him reacting to the draft like the dog farted under his desk.
Henderson pick was a BPA pick. They were fielding offers but the offers were light given their evaluation of the player. Bedard sees this as not a full time player.
- All high character guys, leaders, hard worker types.
- Versatility of Wilson to mix in at C or LG based on whoever is the best combo which might include Bardbury given the shaky status of the LG position.
- Henderson and Williams explosive play ability key missing ingredient in past few years offenses.
Henderson pick was a BPA pick. They were fielding offers but the offers were light given their evaluation of the player. Bedard sees this as not a full time player.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Also makes the point:
FA fixes to the Defense were available so they pounced on that and saw that the value wasn't there on offense so they shifted to fix that side of the ball through the draft.
FA fixes to the Defense were available so they pounced on that and saw that the value wasn't there on offense so they shifted to fix that side of the ball through the draft.
Winks had him as a 2nd rounder:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
Player Comps: T. Lockett, T. Dell, B. Cooks
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
@Anarchy99
Direct quote from Bedard : "Even the most, um, cynical Patriots fan has to look at this and be like- Damn, this group has done a nice job this offseason."
Direct quote from Bedard : "Even the most, um, cynical Patriots fan has to look at this and be like- Damn, this group has done a nice job this offseason."