Interview with Lenny Pappano (1 Viewer)

[David Dodds]

We're pleased to have our friend Lenny Pappano available tonight, 8/1 at 8 PM ET.

Lenny has been active in the FF Community for many years. He runs the successful FF information site Draftsharks.com and joined forces with Emil Kadlec to launch the World Championships of Fantasy Football in 2002.

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Thanks for inviting me, David!

 

[David Dodds]

Welcome Lenny.

Q1: What issues have caused other high-stakes games to fail, while yours, and pretty much yours alone, has succeeded?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Welcome Lenny. Q1: What issues have caused other high-stakes games to fail, while yours, and pretty much yours alone, has succeeded?

A little bit about the genesis of the WCOFF might help in answering this question: For a few years, Emil (Emil Kadlec, WCOFF co-founder) and I kicked around the idea of doing something for the “consumer” portion of the industry. There were industry trade shows that would attract the same 40 or 50 guys, all of whom wanted to talk about their product or service. Not bad if you’re in the industry, but – really – if you’re the average FF enthusiast, how exciting is a trade show? One day around Thanksgiving of 2001, Emil called me while I was in my office. He asked me what I was doing, and I told him I was answering emails with one eye, and watching the World Series of Poker with the other. (If you remember those days, the WSOP was on the Learning Channel, and they didn’t show anyone’s hole cards!!). As soon as I said I was watching the WSOP, Emil blurts out, “That’s what we should do for fantasy football!... create a championship event in Las Vegas for fantasy football.” For the next few days, we didn’t consult marketing gurus, CPAs, attorneys – nor did we devise a business plan. All we did was to create a model for the best fantasy football event we could imagine. We started with the phrase, “If we could compete in this event, we would want to…” and then we filled in the blank. We would want to do it in Vegas. We would want to have a party at the ESPN Zone. We would want a chance to win NFL autographed memorabilia. We would want a grand prize of $200,000. And on-and-on it went for a few days. If you’ve ever seen the movie “Field of Dreams,” you’re familiar with the phrase, “Build it and they will come.” That was more-or-less our “business plan.” I don’t want to say that we were obsessed with the idea – but I will say that I developed mononucleosis that first year, I think from a lot of mentally and emotionally draining days planning for the event. We built it – and a lot of folks got behind the idea and took the leap of faith with us by sending in money. I also have to say that I had to go to my wife at one point – when the checks were not rolling in – and ask her if it was ok to take a second mortgage on the house to cover expenses for the WCOFF. “Build it and the will come….” I think that sense of passion and commitment resonated with what is now a community of WCOFFers. And I have to give a lot of those folks props – they have jumped in with both feet and made suggestions and constructive criticisms that have helped grow the event into a 4-day, 2-city fantasy football extravaganza. I think at bottom, the other games have failed simply because they could not recreate that same energy and excitement. At one point, we tried to expand to a World Championship of Fantasy Baseball, and it failed. Why? I think ultimately, it’s because we didn’t have anyone on our team who had baseball as their top passion. We certainly knew the logistics and financials of running an event like that. But we were missing the passion and the vision that we had for football.

 

[David Dodds]

Q2: Lenny, how crazy did you think the idea was at first that you could get people to come to Las Vegas for a high stakes league?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q2: Lenny, how crazy did you think the idea was at first that you could get people to come to Las Vegas for a high stakes league?

In the first phone conversation between me and Emil – I thought it was very crazy. But the more we talked about building the event around our own tastes and likes, we started to think “Man – who WOULDN’T want to do this?” Ironically, looking back, I almost think it was a good thing that we were so ignorant and naïve about what to expect. Knowing what I know today about how hard it is to pull of the WCOFF events, it was by the grace of God and the faith of a lot of participants, that we pulled it off. A funny story. One of the first people we met with in Vegas was Andrea Rice – then the manager of the ESPN Zone. We told her about what we wanted to do, and that we wanted to rent out the entire ESPN Zone to hold a party for 1,000 WCOFFers. She was very polite, and handed us a contract that committed us to about $80,000 for the party. We took the contract home, sniffed it, gave it to the attorney, and then sent it back signed. So the night of the very first WCOFF party at the ESPN Zone, as people are streaming in, Emil looks at Andrea and asks: “Did you ever think this night would happen when we first met with you?” and without breaking stride, Andrea says in her Texas accent, “Nope – no way.” I have to confess, I was shocked by her answer. I chimed in with, “You DIDN’T?!” And Andrea says, “Oh Lenny, if I had a dime for every dreamer who has come in here wanting to rent out the whole place for a party…” As we found out later from her, that WCOFF marked the first time the entire Las Vegas ESPN Zone had been rented out for an event. And we signed our names on that contract like it was nothing. Maybe we were too ignorant to know how ignorant we were, and it wound up being a blessing in disguise.

 

[David Dodds]

Q3: With the advent of the internet, instant information, NFL Network, etc., this hobby of ours has exploded in the last 5-7 years. Information is easy to get, sleepers are harder to find (and keep quiet), and anyone can just download an up-to-date cheatsheet the day of his draft and go. 8 years ago, who would have thought that enough people would pay enough money to hold the WCOFF? Do you think we are at or reaching a tipping point? Where do you see the hobby in 5 years?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q3: With the advent of the internet, instant information, NFL Network, etc., this hobby of ours has exploded in the last 5-7 years. Information is easy to get, sleepers are harder to find (and keep quiet), and anyone can just download an up-to-date cheatsheet the day of his draft and go. 8 years ago, who would have thought that enough people would pay enough money to hold the WCOFF? Do you think we are at or reaching a tipping point? Where do you see the hobby in 5 years?

I think a lot will depend on what happens in the next year or so. ESPN and a few other high profile fantasy sites currently have a lawsuit against them from some knucklehead who claims that fantasy football is gambling. CDM and representatives of the Major League Baseball Players Union are currently litigating the issue of “who owns the players stats.” The federal government seems to want to crack down and “protect” us from internet sports betting and poker. There is a lot that will determine the fate of the hobby in the next 18 months. My sense is that common sense and freedom will win out in the end – and fantasy football will continue to grow unfettered.

 

[David Dodds]

Q4: How much luck do you think is involved in coming home with the WCOFF Title? And do you see the $200,000.00 Grand Prize growing as the number of registered teams continues to grow? Will the stakes ever be raised? Will we see a $1M dollar cash sometime down the line?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q4: How much luck do you think is involved in coming home with the WCOFF Title? And do you see the $200,000.00 Grand Prize growing as the number of registered teams continues to grow? Will the stakes ever be raised? Will we see a $1M dollar cash sometime down the line?

I think the biggest “luck” factor in fantasy football is avoiding injuries. To that extent, I’ve noticed that the WCOFF Champs every year have been incredibly “lucky” in having healthy teams – thought I suppose the same claim could be made for successful NFL teams, as well. But when you talk to these WCOFF teams about how they won, and what their strategies were, you get the sense that a lot of forethought and effort went into creating their teams. That is to say, I don’t think these are guys who showed up to the draft with a magazine cheat sheet and legal pad with some notes – and then just got lucky and won 200 grand. The more I see the same guys make it to the money rounds, or win their leagues, the more I’m convinced that the level of skill is beyond the average fantasy football manager. As for a million dollar grand prize, I think it could happen. So far, most participants have wanted larger league prizes while keeping the grand prize at $200,000. Personally, I would like to see it go up – but as you know, we make most of our decisions based on the consensus of WCOFF participants. Right now, the consensus is to keep the grand prize as is.

 

[David Dodds]

Q5: A big deal has been made by some that that WCOFF requires that you stay in the hotel where the draft is being held, as well as requires you to pay a mandatory events fee, unless you receive exemptions. This is constantly brought up by detractors of WCOFF and is part of their complaint that WCOFF has a lower prize payout (based on total receipts) than other high stakes contest. What is the economic reality behind both of these items?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q5: A big deal has been made by some that that WCOFF requires that you stay in the hotel where the draft is being held, as well as requires you to pay a mandatory events fee, unless you receive exemptions. This is constantly brought up by detractors of WCOFF and is part of their complaint that WCOFF has a lower prize payout (based on total receipts) than other high stakes contest. What is the economic reality behind both of these items?

I can certainly sympathize with the frustration some folks have – especially guys who are comped a room, and then forced to take one through the WCOFF. A few quick thoughts: First is that about everyone who asked for a room exemption this year prior to May 1 received the exemption – which I’m guessing covers about 90% of those requests. For the ESPN party exemption, we could accommodate about half the requests. Second, in order to secure the needed meeting space at these casinos, groups are forced to guarantee room blocks. If we were only doing 5 or 10 leagues (like most other “high-stakes” events) we could just throw the hotel a few thousand bucks for the room rental, and that would be that. In fact, for the WCOFF draft in Atlantic City – where there will be 12 leagues -- participants are not required to take a room. My last thought is that when you add up all the prizes and giveaways vs. the entrance fees and events fees, the WCOFF is still ahead of the other events in money returned. We haven’t done this calculation for 2006, but I know it was true of 2004 and 2005. Most guys don’t factor in the $15,000 in autographed memorabilia we give away, the $6,500 we give away for the WCOFF Hall of Fame league, the free trip to Hawaii that we gave to the Champs – and the handful of other perks we give. Factor in all those, and we’re way ahead of the rest of the field.

 

[David Dodds]

Q6: How do you see the 2006 draft class shaking out, and who do you think will have the best pro careers from what looks like it could be a strong QB, RB & TE class. Who has the best chance to break out and help fantasy squads this year, possibly later in the season. Based on the best combo of value, upside and risk minimizing would you rather have the IND (Addai/Rhodes), CAR (Foster/Williams), NE (Dillon/Maroney) or TEN (Brown/White) RB handcuffs?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q6: How do you see the 2006 draft class shaking out, and who do you think will have the best pro careers from what looks like it could be a strong QB, RB & TE class. Who has the best chance to break out and help fantasy squads this year, possibly later in the season. Based on the best combo of value, upside and risk minimizing would you rather have the IND (Addai/Rhodes), CAR (Foster/Williams), NE (Dillon/Maroney) or TEN (Brown/White) RB handcuffs?

I’m enamored by Bush this year. He may be the best pure runner in the NFL already, and I just can’t see him sitting much behind Deuce. I think LenDale White is going to be the Titans starter early in the year. And Maroney will take over for Corey Dillon by Thanksgiving. I’m going to reserve judgment on DeAngelo Williams until I see him play. The Panthers just love to use a RBBC. Addai is the most intriguing prospect. The big strike against him is that he’s an injury waiting to happen. In the long run, I think Bush and Maroney will be the best players. Addai strikes me as the guy most likely to be a bust.

 

[David Dodds]

Q7: I have been to the WCOFF and can only offer a “wow” to the buzz and excitement before they open the doors and let the 1,000 rabid fans into the place to draft their teams. For those that have never attended this event, please describe these events:

- Thursday Night ESPN pre-party

- The 30 minutes before the doors open

- The actual draft

- The ESPN Post-party

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q7: I have been to the WCOFF and can only offer a “wow” to the buzz and excitement before they open the doors and let the 1,000 rabid fans into the place to draft their teams. For those that have never attended this event, please describe these events:- Thursday Night ESPN pre-party- The 30 minutes before the doors open- The actual draft- The ESPN Post-party

The Thursday night party will actually be at the Riviera this year – at the “Top of the Riv” which is their big ballroom on the 24th floor. About 200 people will get together to watch the Dolphins/Steelers game. It’s really a spectacular view of Vegas from there… 30 minutes before the doors open – kinda like watching people amass to buy tickets for a Springsteen concert. On the inside, we’re going over items with the staff. Getting all the draft facilitators straightened out. Chatting with Nick Bakay. Sort of making sure that everyone knows what they’re doing… Once the draft gets going, thing settle down a bit. I like to walk around, handing out the NFL autographed memorabilia raffle items. Things actually slow down for me when the draft begins… The ESPN Party is a blast. 1,000 fantasy fanatics taking over the entire ESPN Zone. Open bar and buffet. It’s a nice way to wind down the day.

 

[David Dodds]

Q8: If someone is new to the WCOFF scoring (start 3 WRs + flex + PPR scoring), what advice would you give them to have a competitive season in year 1. What pitfalls should they look to avoid?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q8: If someone is new to the WCOFF scoring (start 3 WRs + flex + PPR scoring), what advice would you give them to have a competitive season in year 1. What pitfalls should they look to avoid?

Same advice I give for nearly every league: Don’t draft a QB with your first 5 picks, and grab defenses and kickers in the last rounds. It still amazes me to see QBs taken in round one, and kickers going in the 13 round. Ouch.

 

[David Dodds]

Q9: Lenny, thoughts on Randy Moss, Joe Horn, Corey Dillon, and Curtis Martin? "Gun to head, gotta pick one" what RB do you draft from the Jets? Who will do better: Julius Jones or Marion Barber III?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q9: Lenny, thoughts on Randy Moss, Joe Horn, Corey Dillon, and Curtis Martin? "Gun to head, gotta pick one" what RB do you draft from the Jets? Who will do better: Julius Jones or Marion Barber III?

Moss will bounce back. He was hurting last year, and his QB sucks. I actually like Aaron Brooks as the QB – a guy who can’t read a defense, but can find one-on-one coverage 25 yards downfield – and then sling it. That plays to Moss’ strengths. Horn is too old to return to his glory days. Same with Dillon. Maroney will be the starter by the end of the year. If someone put a gun to my head and asked me to pick the best Jets RB, I’d say “pull the trigger.” I can’t say that I’m impressed with any of them at this point – but it looks like Martin has some health issues. As for Dallas, I love Marion. Nice sleeper pick.

 

[David Dodds]

Q10: So much time is spent identify players who will break out, but avoiding the train wrecks can be even more important to a fantasy squad. What are 3-4 most important components that you look for when compiling a player primed for a bust year?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q10: So much time is spent identify players who will break out, but avoiding the train wrecks can be even more important to a fantasy squad. What are 3-4 most important components that you look for when compiling a player primed for a bust year?

Since most of the first-round busts are elite RBs, we usually look at wear and tear – and more specifically, we look at guys who have had career-highs in carries the previous season. That is typically a good indication. We nailed Jamal Lewis and Eddie George simply because they were worn out after great seasons. People don’t appreciate how hard it is to carry the ball 300-plus times in a year. And then do it year after year without losing a step. Other big factors are surrounding talent, injury history, and career-years late in someone’s career. The first article we did naming a First-Round Bust was back in 1999, the year after Steve Young had a monster year. 4,100 yards, 36 TDs, 450 rushing yards and 6 TDs. The problem was that the guy was 38 year old going into the 1999 season; he had a long history of concussions; and there was a big dip in talent – especially along the O-line. We noticed him going in the first round of mock drafts, and felt compelled to wave the red flag. Sure enough, he suffered a concussion in week 3 and never played football again. Those predictions don’t always work out so well – we tabbed Priest Holmes a few years back, the year he set the record for TDs scored – but on balance, we have hit far more than we’ve missed.

 

[David Dodds]

Q11: Your site puts its neck out more than most, who are you staking your reputation on this year?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q11: Your site puts its neck out more than most, who are you staking your reputation on this year?

I’m not sure that I would stake our reputation on any single player. You get flames when youre wrong about a player, don't ya, David?!! But I will say that Reggie is going to shock a lot of folks by how good he is.

 

[David Dodds]

I wouldn't know...we have never been wrong on a player....laughs.

 

[David Dodds]

Q12: What got you into FF and what did you do before that?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

I wouldn't know...we have never been wrong on a player....laughs.

Me neither. it's just that my timing is sometimes off!

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q12: What got you into FF and what did you do before that?

I worked as a member of the “vast right-wing conspiracy” during the Clinton years. I was involved as a copy writer/Senior Account Executive at one of the country’s biggest conservative direct mail fundraisers. We raised money for conservative candidates and organizations. I loved my job, but it took me a few years to figure out that 95% of all politicians are spineless socialists. And a couple more to find out I had a knack and a passion for fantasy football.

 

[David Dodds]

Q13: Drafting early in 12 man drafts often is a huge advantage. Any thoughts of reversing the draft order in the 3rd round (Double serpentine)?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

Q13: Drafting early in 12 man drafts often is a huge advantage. Any thoughts of reversing the draft order in the 3rd round (Double serpentine)?

Gotta confess that I’ve not seen the trend of reversing the order for round 3. It sounds interesting. It’s not anything that’s ever been discussed on the WCOFF message board, but I would certainly entertain the idea if it got some support. I’m not completely convinced that drafting early is a “huge advantage.” The first WCOFF champ drafted in the 10 spot. The guy who came in second last year drafted in the 12 spot. But having said that, I take your point that it might be more equitable to reverse the order for round 3.

 

[David Dodds]

That's all we got here Lenny. We appreciate your time to answer these questions. Any parting words regarding Draftsharks and WCOFF?

 

[Lenny Pappano]

That's all we got here Lenny. We appreciate your time to answer these questions. Any parting words regarding Draftsharks and WCOFF?

Thanks, David -- always a pleasure.There are about 40 spots left for the 2006 WCOFF. Any of your folks who are interested can check out WCOFF.com. I hope to see you and Joe out there again soon! Thanks again for giving me a chance to share with your guys!

 

[Kleck]

Dear Inmates,

Feel free to add your comments.

--

The Management

 

[David Dodds]

Thanks again Lenny. For those that have never been to the WCOFF, I suggest you find a way to get to Vegas and see it firsthand. It's crazy. There is a rumble leading up to the doors opening up. And there are tables everywhere with draftboards and people shouting out picks.

Lenny and Emil put on a wonderful event and you are guaranteed to have a great time there.

 

[Fullback Fro]

This year will be my fifth year at WCOFF. I've been handed free signed memorablia by Lenny and I've shot the #### with Dodds. It is the greatest Fantasy Football event in the world. If you have any inkling, make it happen. You won't be disappointed. Oh, and if you are playing roulette while your there . . . bet on black.

 

[sportsbettingman]

Well thought out interview, David...nice questioning job!

I enjoyed it very much.

~Lance

 

[Clayton Gray]

As we found out later from her, that WCOFF marked the first time the entire Las Vegas ESPN Zone had been rented out for an event. And we signed our names on that contract like it was nothing. Maybe we were too ignorant to know how ignorant we were, and it wound up being a blessing in disguise.

That's impressive.

 

[cscmtp]

Another big Bush fan. I love it!

 

[Team Legacy]

Well thought out interview, David...nice questioning job!I enjoyed it very much.~Lance

Wow. Having Lenny here tonight was BIG NEWS, but I never thought I'd see the day..Lance is in the building!!

 

[Clayton Gray]

This year will be my fifth year at WCOFF. I've been handed free signed memorablia by Lenny and I've shot the #### with Dodds. It is the greatest Fantasy Football event in the world. If you have any inkling, make it happen. You won't be disappointed. Oh, and if you are playing roulette while your there . . . bet on black.

Thanks for the oversight. :(

 

[Team Legacy]

This year will be my fifth year at WCOFF. I've been handed free signed memorablia by Lenny and I've shot the #### with Dodds. It is the greatest Fantasy Football event in the world. If you have any inkling, make it happen. You won't be disappointed. Oh, and if you are playing roulette while your there . . . bet on black.

Ditto on 5th year Fro. A short story about Lenny:As Lenny mentioned, they give away a TON of gear every year. In 2004, Lenny sent somebody over to my table to find out my favorite team. I guess they didn't have anything J-E-T-S lying around (can't blame em). 1 week after arriving home from Vegas, lo and behold, a package, from Lenny.. A Namath signed sweatshirt.That's the kind of guy Lenny is.

 

[Kleck]

Oh, and if you are playing roulette while your there . . . bet on black.

I witnessed this in action. His logic is undeniably sound.

 

[Redmanchu]

Man Lenny types FAST !!! Multiple paragraphs in a minute !!!

 

[On The Rocks]

Man Lenny types FAST !!! Multiple paragraphs in a minute !!!

it was that copy editor background.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Alot more Bush love from Pappano than most of the FBG staff. Very interested to see his role in preseason games and how much he'll be on the field.

 

[mnbigdawg]

I was in the first WCOFF. Due to lack of funds, I haven't been back since, but I have to say, it was one of the best times of my life.

I am still bitter because a 10-1 record instead of 9-2 would have gotten us $20,000 instead of ZERO (not exaggerating!).... but I would LOVE to do it again! Especially after this interview....brings back a lot of good memories.

Thanks Lenny.

 

[Joe T]

This will be my 3rd year competing.

This is a world class event and truly is a great experience.

If I could change one thing, it would be to remove the ESPN Zone party.

Cloud of Feces II: The Shi# Strikes Back

 

[IRON CHEF]

could have ment Reggie Wayne..........hmmmmmmm!!

 

[ChampBailey24]

Q6: How do you see the 2006 draft class shaking out, and who do you think will have the best pro careers from what looks like it could be a strong QB, RB & TE class. Who has the best chance to break out and help fantasy squads this year, possibly later in the season. Based on the best combo of value, upside and risk minimizing would you rather have the IND (Addai/Rhodes), CAR (Foster/Williams), NE (Dillon/Maroney) or TEN (Brown/White) RB handcuffs?

I’m enamored by Bush this year. He may be the best pure runner in the NFL already, and I just can’t see him sitting much behind Deuce. I think LenDale White is going to be the Titans starter early in the year. And Maroney will take over for Corey Dillon by Thanksgiving. I’m going to reserve judgment on DeAngelo Williams until I see him play. The Panthers just love to use a RBBC. Addai is the most intriguing prospect. The big strike against him is that he’s an injury waiting to happen. In the long run, I think Bush and Maroney will be the best players. Addai strikes me as the guy most likely to be a bust.

Exactly what I think. For EVERY RB.