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IRS Apologizes For Targeting Conservative Political Groups In 2012 Ele (1 Viewer)

Somehow all this parsing of what is progressive/non-conservative vs. Tea Party/Anti Tax is the legitimacy of any of these groups they targeted.
The IRS would have to have evidence that they were actively supporting a political campaign to deny them status. They can legally engage in political activity.
That isnt exactly correct. These ridiculous sham 501c4 orgs trying to scam the taxpayers can engage in political activity IF THEY EXCLUSIVELY PROMOTE SOCIAL WELFARE, and by in practice "by exclusively" means that their primary activity is social welfare and they lie about what they do and fraudulently claim their political activity is minor and incidental, etc. Why are you defending this ridiculous sham?
If the IRS considers lobbying social welfare I'm not convinced that most of what you seem upset about wouldn't fall under that umbrella as well. The law is written loosely enough so that no one really has to lie. Perhaps the designation should be dumped altogether.Regardless, these organizations are currently legal and should not be harassed because they aren't a favored political persuasion.
Well, a lot of those organizations (as reported by the NY Times last week - no link, sorry) were kinda bogus in the first place. I mean, anybody can come up with a website, use keywords such as Tea Party, Patriot, Save the Baby Seals and such and apply for that exemption. But when then do file one, no doubt someone should put them under a microscope to see if the donations aren't going to line a lobbyists or politicians pocket. Or do something like game voting, throw misinformation out for political gain, etc.

Screw that. Let them sink or swim without the exemption. A lot of them don't raise that much money in the first place, so what ever they can save by not being taxed may pay for that website they can't due to lack of donations.

 
Somehow all this parsing of what is progressive/non-conservative vs. Tea Party/Anti Tax is the legitimacy of any of these groups they targeted.
The IRS would have to have evidence that they were actively supporting a political campaign to deny them status. They can legally engage in political activity.
That isnt exactly correct. These ridiculous sham 501c4 orgs trying to scam the taxpayers can engage in political activity IF THEY EXCLUSIVELY PROMOTE SOCIAL WELFARE, and by in practice "by exclusively" means that their primary activity is social welfare and they lie about what they do and fraudulently claim their political activity is minor and incidental, etc. Why are you defending this ridiculous sham?
If the IRS considers lobbying social welfare I'm not convinced that most of what you seem upset about wouldn't fall under that umbrella as well. The law is written loosely enough so that no one really has to lie. Perhaps the designation should be dumped altogether.Regardless, these organizations are currently legal and should not be harassed because they aren't a favored political persuasion.
Well, a lot of those organizations (as reported by the NY Times last week - no link, sorry) were kinda bogus in the first place. I mean, anybody can come up with a website, use keywords such as Tea Party, Patriot, Save the Baby Seals and such and apply for that exemption. But when then do file one, no doubt someone should put them under a microscope to see if the donations aren't going to line a lobbyists or politicians pocket. Or do something like game voting, throw misinformation out for political gain, etc. Screw that. Let them sink or swim without the exemption. A lot of them don't raise that much money in the first place, so what ever they can save by not being taxed may pay for that website they can't due to lack of donations.
Paying a lobbyist would be considered social welfare as would signing up voters. Throwing out "misinformation" for political gain would probably fall under it as well since "misinformation" is subjective. They are simply informing people of their views. That's perfectly viable.Most of these politically orientated groups are legally qualified for this status. There's very little to police. The whole designation should be dumped.
 
Somehow all this parsing of what is progressive/non-conservative vs. Tea Party/Anti Tax is the legitimacy of any of these groups they targeted.
The IRS would have to have evidence that they were actively supporting a political campaign to deny them status. They can legally engage in political activity.
That isnt exactly correct. These ridiculous sham 501c4 orgs trying to scam the taxpayers can engage in political activity IF THEY EXCLUSIVELY PROMOTE SOCIAL WELFARE, and by in practice "by exclusively" means that their primary activity is social welfare and they lie about what they do and fraudulently claim their political activity is minor and incidental, etc. Why are you defending this ridiculous sham?
If the IRS considers lobbying social welfare I'm not convinced that most of what you seem upset about wouldn't fall under that umbrella as well. The law is written loosely enough so that no one really has to lie. Perhaps the designation should be dumped altogether.Regardless, these organizations are currently legal and should not be harassed because they aren't a favored political persuasion.
Well, a lot of those organizations (as reported by the NY Times last week - no link, sorry) were kinda bogus in the first place. I mean, anybody can come up with a website, use keywords such as Tea Party, Patriot, Save the Baby Seals and such and apply for that exemption. But when then do file one, no doubt someone should put them under a microscope to see if the donations aren't going to line a lobbyists or politicians pocket. Or do something like game voting, throw misinformation out for political gain, etc.

Screw that. Let them sink or swim without the exemption. A lot of them don't raise that much money in the first place, so what ever they can save by not being taxed may pay for that website they can't due to lack of donations.
Paying a lobbyist would be considered social welfare as would signing up voters. Throwing out "misinformation" for political gain would probably fall under it as well since "misinformation" is subjective. They are simply informing people of their views. That's perfectly viable.Most of these politically orientated groups are legally qualified for this status. There's very little to police. The whole designation should be dumped.
I'm all for dumping the exemption altogether. Too many grey areas that can be subject to abuse. That goes for anybody to the extreme left to the extreme right and between. Plus to leave in the hands of the IRS? I hate the IRS, and if they gut it after this then hurrah.

 
Somehow all this parsing of what is progressive/non-conservative vs. Tea Party/Anti Tax is the legitimacy of any of these groups they targeted.
The IRS would have to have evidence that they were actively supporting a political campaign to deny them status. They can legally engage in political activity.
That isnt exactly correct. These ridiculous sham 501c4 orgs trying to scam the taxpayers can engage in political activity IF THEY EXCLUSIVELY PROMOTE SOCIAL WELFARE, and by in practice "by exclusively" means that their primary activity is social welfare and they lie about what they do and fraudulently claim their political activity is minor and incidental, etc. Why are you defending this ridiculous sham?
Income tax, and the things they use the money for, that is the sham.. And not supported by our constitution..
Did the 16th amendment get pulled while I wasn't looking? Why don't I get the tdoss notes on these things?

 
Somehow all this parsing of what is progressive/non-conservative vs. Tea Party/Anti Tax is the legitimacy of any of these groups they targeted.
The IRS would have to have evidence that they were actively supporting a political campaign to deny them status. They can legally engage in political activity.
That isnt exactly correct. These ridiculous sham 501c4 orgs trying to scam the taxpayers can engage in political activity IF THEY EXCLUSIVELY PROMOTE SOCIAL WELFARE, and by in practice "by exclusively" means that their primary activity is social welfare and they lie about what they do and fraudulently claim their political activity is minor and incidental, etc. Why are you defending this ridiculous sham?
Income tax, and the things they use the money for, that is the sham.. And not supported by our constitution..
Did the 16th amendment get pulled while I wasn't looking? Why don't I get the tdoss notes on these things?
The 16th amendment was never properly ratified...

And a graduated Income tax was never the original intention of our forefathers.. Income taxes were only intended for use during wartime situations.. Our current form of taxation is legalized extortion..

This is a topic for another thread so I'll leave it at that..

 
Somehow all this parsing of what is progressive/non-conservative vs. Tea Party/Anti Tax is the legitimacy of any of these groups they targeted.
The IRS would have to have evidence that they were actively supporting a political campaign to deny them status. They can legally engage in political activity.
That isnt exactly correct. These ridiculous sham 501c4 orgs trying to scam the taxpayers can engage in political activity IF THEY EXCLUSIVELY PROMOTE SOCIAL WELFARE, and by in practice "by exclusively" means that their primary activity is social welfare and they lie about what they do and fraudulently claim their political activity is minor and incidental, etc. Why are you defending this ridiculous sham?
Why do you keep throwing up distractions? You've yet to concede that what the IRS did is even wrong you're so in bed with the Administration. Of course, I expect this of someone as extremely partisan as yourself, but you're going out of your way to avoid the actual topic of the thread.

Thread: IRS admits to targeting Conservative groups.

Todd Andrews/BST: Look! A squirrel!
MaxKooK is in love with me.

 
Somehow all this parsing of what is progressive/non-conservative vs. Tea Party/Anti Tax is the legitimacy of any of these groups they targeted.
The IRS would have to have evidence that they were actively supporting a political campaign to deny them status. They can legally engage in political activity.
That isnt exactly correct. These ridiculous sham 501c4 orgs trying to scam the taxpayers can engage in political activity IF THEY EXCLUSIVELY PROMOTE SOCIAL WELFARE, and by in practice "by exclusively" means that their primary activity is social welfare and they lie about what they do and fraudulently claim their political activity is minor and incidental, etc. Why are you defending this ridiculous sham?
Income tax, and the things they use the money for, that is the sham.. And not supported by our constitution..
Did the 16th amendment get pulled while I wasn't looking? Why don't I get the tdoss notes on these things?
The 16th amendment was never properly ratified... And a graduated Income tax was never the original intention of our forefathers.. Income taxes were only intended for use during wartime situations.. Our current form of taxation is legalized extortion.. This is a topic for another thread so I'll leave it at that..
I'm going to regret asking this, but which of the prevailing theories on the 16th not being ratified do you subscribe to?
 
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Service’s screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides ‘‘tea party,’’ lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms ‘‘Israel,’’ ‘'Progressive’’ and ‘‘Occupy.’’ The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..

 
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Service’s screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides ‘‘tea party,’’ lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms ‘‘Israel,’’ ‘'Progressive’’ and ‘‘Occupy.’’ The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.

 
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Sorry guys! Maybe next time.
And to think an article in the Huffington Post was all it took.
[rightwingradio]because the lamestream media won't report it[/rightwingradio]
Huffington post is a liberal rag..
:whoosh:
The link provided by Bottom feeder, as proof that the white house was not involved was an article from the huffington post, a known liberal rag.. A biased source basically..

 
Sorry guys! Maybe next time.
And to think an article in the Huffington Post was all it took.
[rightwingradio]because the lamestream media won't report it[/rightwingradio]
Huffington post is a liberal rag..
:whoosh:
The link provided by Bottom feeder, as proof that the white house was not involved was an article from the huffington post, a known liberal rag.. A biased source basically..
ok

:lol:

 
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Services screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.

An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides tea party, lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms Israel, 'Progressive and Occupy. The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
Hey, look, didn't we talk about how those exact words would prove that it wasn't partisan a dozen pages or so ago?

 
So I turned out to be right again. It wasn't just Tea Partiers it was liberal groups as well. So not so much jackbooted thugs using the IRS to single out the presidents enemies after all. And it seems everyone who didn't do the proper oversight has been fired or is in process of being fired. That lying piece of crap Issa should be the next one investigated and perhaps sued for libel by Jay Carney. That would be a hoot.

 
So I turned out to be right again. It wasn't just Tea Partiers it was liberal groups as well. So not so much jackbooted thugs using the IRS to single out the presidents enemies after all. And it seems everyone who didn't do the proper oversight has been fired or is in process of being fired. That lying piece of crap Issa should be the next one investigated and perhaps sued for libel by Jay Carney. That would be a hoot.
Well to be fair someone was abusing their powers within government to attack their political enemy.
 
So I turned out to be right again. It wasn't just Tea Partiers it was liberal groups as well. So not so much jackbooted thugs using the IRS to single out the presidents enemies after all. And it seems everyone who didn't do the proper oversight has been fired or is in process of being fired. That lying piece of crap Issa should be the next one investigated and perhaps sued for libel by Jay Carney. That would be a hoot.
Well to be fair someone was abusing their powers within government to attack their political enemy.
After the fact. By the way the investigation I want to see is into J. Russel George the guy who started this and omitted from his report the fact that there were BOLOs that included liberal terms and in fact lied to Congress about it:

In addition, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) asked George during a congressional investigation if the IRS had “a BOLO for MoveOn or progressive?” George responded that he couldn’t provide a “definitive response.”
Now we know that's a lie.

 
So I turned out to be right again. It wasn't just Tea Partiers it was liberal groups as well. So not so much jackbooted thugs using the IRS to single out the presidents enemies after all. And it seems everyone who didn't do the proper oversight has been fired or is in process of being fired. That lying piece of crap Issa should be the next one investigated and perhaps sued for libel by Jay Carney. That would be a hoot.
Well to be fair someone was abusing their powers within government to attack their political enemy.
After the fact. By the way the investigation I want to see is into J. Russel George the guy who started this and omitted from his report the fact that there were BOLOs that included liberal terms and in fact lied to Congress about it:

In addition, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) asked George during a congressional investigation if the IRS had “a BOLO for MoveOn or progressive?” George responded that he couldn’t provide a “definitive response.”
Now we know that's a lie.
To play devil's advocate, that second quote you posted makes it sound like Issa was lied to, not that he was the one doing the lying.

In all honesty, I haven't followed this story particularly closely. I'm pretty sure that someone overstepped their bounds, perhaps unintentionally, and that someone or someones needs to be smacked down, but that's about as far as I can go with any degree of certainty.

 
So I turned out to be right again. It wasn't just Tea Partiers it was liberal groups as well. So not so much jackbooted thugs using the IRS to single out the presidents enemies after all. And it seems everyone who didn't do the proper oversight has been fired or is in process of being fired. That lying piece of crap Issa should be the next one investigated and perhaps sued for libel by Jay Carney. That would be a hoot.
Well to be fair someone was abusing their powers within government to attack their political enemy.
After the fact...
I meant Issa and McConnell.
 
So I turned out to be right again. It wasn't just Tea Partiers it was liberal groups as well. So not so much jackbooted thugs using the IRS to single out the presidents enemies after all. And it seems everyone who didn't do the proper oversight has been fired or is in process of being fired. That lying piece of crap Issa should be the next one investigated and perhaps sued for libel by Jay Carney. That would be a hoot.
Well to be fair someone was abusing their powers within government to attack their political enemy.
After the fact. By the way the investigation I want to see is into J. Russel George the guy who started this and omitted from his report the fact that there were BOLOs that included liberal terms and in fact lied to Congress about it:

In addition, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) asked George during a congressional investigation if the IRS had “a BOLO for MoveOn or progressive?” George responded that he couldn’t provide a “definitive response.”
Now we know that's a lie.
To play devil's advocate, that second quote you posted makes it sound like Issa was lied to, not that he was the one doing the lying.

In all honesty, I haven't followed this story particularly closely. I'm pretty sure that someone overstepped their bounds, perhaps unintentionally, and that someone or someones needs to be smacked down, but that's about as far as I can go with any degree of certainty.
Oh yeah in that case Issa got lied to. Some others have said he set up the lie but that seems a bit farfetched even for the arsonist. I was referring to Issa refusingd to release the full transcripts that undercut his lies about White House involvement and when he called Jay Carney a "paid liar" for insisting that the White House wasn't involved. Issa should be censured minimum.

 
So I turned out to be right again. It wasn't just Tea Partiers it was liberal groups as well. So not so much jackbooted thugs using the IRS to single out the presidents enemies after all. And it seems everyone who didn't do the proper oversight has been fired or is in process of being fired. That lying piece of crap Issa should be the next one investigated and perhaps sued for libel by Jay Carney. That would be a hoot.
Well to be fair someone was abusing their powers within government to attack their political enemy.
After the fact...
I meant Issa and McConnell.
I know

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Carolina Hustler said:
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Service’s screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides ‘‘tea party,’’ lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms ‘‘Israel,’’ ‘'Progressive’’ and ‘‘Occupy.’’ The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.
I want to know why they plan to stop. It seems to me that any group with an obvious political name should get scrutiny. The point of review is to be tax exempt these groups are meant not to be political.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Carolina Hustler said:
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Services screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.

An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides tea party, lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms Israel, 'Progressive and Occupy. The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.
I want to know why they plan to stop. It seems to me that any group with an obvious political name should get scrutiny. The point of review is to be tax exempt these groups are meant not to be political.
This seems to be a common misconception. Current law allows these groups to have substantial political operations. They just can't be involved in political campaigns.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Carolina Hustler said:
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Services screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.

An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides tea party, lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms Israel, 'Progressive and Occupy. The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.
I want to know why they plan to stop. It seems to me that any group with an obvious political name should get scrutiny. The point of review is to be tax exempt these groups are meant not to be political.
This seems to be a common misconception. Current law allows these groups to have substantial political operations. They just can't be involved in political campaigns.
The rule is that they cannot be primarily political. This is what is meant to be reviewed.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Carolina Hustler said:
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Services screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.

An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides tea party, lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms Israel, 'Progressive and Occupy. The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.
I want to know why they plan to stop. It seems to me that any group with an obvious political name should get scrutiny. The point of review is to be tax exempt these groups are meant not to be political.
This seems to be a common misconception. Current law allows these groups to have substantial political operations. They just can't be involved in political campaigns.
No it doesn't:

The law says that 501©(4) organizations must be operated "exclusively" for the purpose of social welfare, while the IRS regulation defines "exclusively" as "primarily."
 
wdcrob said:
Just keeps getting better and better. The entire scandal was manufactured from scratch...

The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.A spokesman for Russell George, Treasury’s inspector general for tax administration, said they were asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations.”

The inspector general’s audit found that groups seeking tax-exempt status with “Tea Party” and “patriots” in their name did receive extra attention from the IRS, with some facing years of delay and inappropriate questions from the agency.

But top congressional Democrats have wielded new information from the IRS this week that liberal groups were also flagged for extra attention on the sorts of “be on the lookout” lists (BOLOs) that also tripped up conservative groups.

The spokesman for the Treasury inspector general noted their audit acknowledged there were other watch lists. But the spokesman added: "We did not review the use, disposition, purpose or content of the other BOLOs. That was outside the scope of our audit.”

The admission from the inspector general comes as Democrats have sharpened their criticism of George, with Rep. Sandy Levin (D-Mich.) dubbing the audit fundamentally flawed on Monday.

Levin, the top Democrat on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, stressed to The Hill on Tuesday that the inspector general did not say the audit was limited to Tea Party groups when it was released in mid-May.

The Michigan Democrat also maintained that the audit’s shortcoming had emboldened Republicans to try to link the targeting of Tea Party groups to the White House.

“You need to get at the facts. And those facts weren’t given to us, even when asked,” Levin said. “The Republicans used the failure of the IG to spell out what they knew as an opportunity to totally politicize this.”

Levin’s office first disclosed on Monday that the term “progressive” was also included in the lists until this year and urged the Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) to bring George back for more testimony.

And while the inspector general’s office has not said they knew about BOLOs flagging liberal groups, Ways and Means Democrats said Monday that progressive organizations were among the almost 300 groups the inspector general examined for his audit.

Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.), who questioned George about whether liberal groups were singled out at an Oversight hearing last month, also said Tuesday that it appears the inspector general's answers "were at best incomplete, if not misleading."
So I was wrong Issa is that bad. This sure seems like witness tampering to me. Isn't that a crime?

 
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Services screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.

An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides tea party, lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms Israel, 'Progressive and Occupy. The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.
I want to know why they plan to stop. It seems to me that any group with an obvious political name should get scrutiny. The point of review is to be tax exempt these groups are meant not to be political.
This seems to be a common misconception. Current law allows these groups to have substantial political operations. They just can't be involved in political campaigns.
No it doesn't:

The law says that 501©(4) organizations must be operated "exclusively" for the purpose of social welfare, while the IRS regulation defines "exclusively" as "primarily."
Social welfare can be political in nature.

 
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Service’s screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides ‘‘tea party,’’ lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms ‘‘Israel,’’ ‘'Progressive’’ and ‘‘Occupy.’’ The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.
Dead because that's all you'll believe regardless of the evidence?

Sorry, but you're wrong again:

Investigator: IRS screened few progressive groupsA Treasury Department inspector general says the Internal Revenue Service screened only a few progressive groups seeking tax-exempt status for possible political activity, as a clash escalated between that investigator and congressional Democrats who called his probe of the agency misleading.


In a letter to lawmakers released Thursday, J. Russell George said his investigation found "progressives" was not among the inappropriate terms IRS screeners used to decide if groups merited close scrutiny for political work. Too much political activity can disqualify an applicant for a tax-exempt designation.

Nonetheless, George wrote that "additional research" by his investigators found that of 298 applicants for tax-exempt status that the IRS flagged for possible political involvement between 2010 and 2012, six had "progress" or "progressive" in their names. Another 14 cases with "progress" or "progressive" in the group's name were not sidetracked for additional examination, he wrote.

Thirty percent of such groups got special attention because of possible political work, George wrote.

"In comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea Party, Patriots or 9/12 in their names were processed" for potential political activity, he said...


But it has not yet been clearly shown that as many faced the same extent of mistreatment as conservative organizations. Dozens of conservative groups experienced delays of a year or more, and many received scores of detailed questions that officials have since said were overly intrusive, including demands for information about their donors.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
wdcrob said:
No wonder it was so important for Darrell Issa (R-Cherrypicker) to keep the full transcripts and other info away from the public:

The Internal Revenue Service’s screening of groups seeking tax-exempt status was broader and lasted longer than has been previously disclosed, the new head of the agency said Monday.An internal IRS document obtained by The Associated Press said that besides ‘‘tea party,’’ lists used by screeners to pick groups for close examination also included the terms ‘‘Israel,’’ ‘'Progressive’’ and ‘‘Occupy.’’ The document said an investigation into why specific terms were included was still underway.
if your source can be trusted (no link) that's some new info for discussion..
The matter is all but dead.

Source: Business Insider

Though Issa may deserve a censure.
Dead because that's all you'll believe regardless of the evidence?

Sorry, but you're wrong again:

Investigator: IRS screened few progressive groupsA Treasury Department inspector general says the Internal Revenue Service screened only a few progressive groups seeking tax-exempt status for possible political activity, as a clash escalated between that investigator and congressional Democrats who called his probe of the agency misleading.


In a letter to lawmakers released Thursday, J. Russell George said his investigation found "progressives" was not among the inappropriate terms IRS screeners used to decide if groups merited close scrutiny for political work. Too much political activity can disqualify an applicant for a tax-exempt designation.

Nonetheless, George wrote that "additional research" by his investigators found that of 298 applicants for tax-exempt status that the IRS flagged for possible political involvement between 2010 and 2012, six had "progress" or "progressive" in their names. Another 14 cases with "progress" or "progressive" in the group's name were not sidetracked for additional examination, he wrote.

Thirty percent of such groups got special attention because of possible political work, George wrote.

"In comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea Party, Patriots or 9/12 in their names were processed" for potential political activity, he said...


But it has not yet been clearly shown that as many faced the same extent of mistreatment as conservative organizations. Dozens of conservative groups experienced delays of a year or more, and many received scores of detailed questions that officials have since said were overly intrusive, including demands for information about their donors.
Select one...

1) A conservative republican targeted republicans groups.

2) A conservative republican targeted anti-tax groups.

Now... ask yourself why? What was the purpose of it?

 
Select one...

1) A conservative republican targeted republicans groups.

2) A conservative republican targeted anti-tax groups.

Now... ask yourself why? What was the purpose of it?
I'd go with a employee trying to do a good job that happens to be republican pulling out the applications of the new political groups dominating the news that were flooding the office without any real management supervision or direction.

 
Select one...

1) A conservative republican targeted republicans groups.

2) A conservative republican targeted anti-tax groups.

Now... ask yourself why? What was the purpose of it?
I'd go with a employee trying to do a good job that happens to be republican pulling out the applications of the new political groups dominating the news that were flooding the office without any real management supervision or direction.
Bingo!

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Select one...

1) A conservative republican targeted republicans groups.

2) A conservative republican targeted anti-tax groups.

Now... ask yourself why? What was the purpose of it?
I'd go with a employee trying to do a good job that happens to be republican pulling out the applications of the new political groups dominating the news that were flooding the office without any real management supervision or direction.
Sounds about right to me.

 
This is why yelling "SCANDAL" works. The dolts that get their news from Fox are up in arms when the allegations are being tossed around, but they are in hiding once the facts come out.

 
This is why yelling "SCANDAL" works. The dolts that get their news from Fox are up in arms when the allegations are being tossed around, but they are in hiding once the facts come out.
Never pass up an opportunity to pad your ratings book. They have shareholders and commercial spots to sell. MSNBC made hay out of it too by presenting their side of it.

Politics now is a circus promoted by all kinds of Oz's behind the curtains of the media. Even the politicians themselves know how much money it can generate. Just look at Bachmann.

 
I haven't followed this too closely, but I was surprised there was no bump after Peggy Noonan's story last night:

The IRS scandal was connected this week not just to the Washington office—that had been established—but to the office of the chief counsel.

That is a bombshell—such a big one that it managed to emerge in spite of an unfocused, frequently off-point congressional hearing in which some members seemed to have accidentally woken up in the middle of a committee room, some seemed unaware of the implications of what their investigators had uncovered, one pretended that the investigation should end if IRS workers couldn't say the president had personally called and told them to harass his foes, and one seemed to be holding a filibuster on Pakistan.

Still, what landed was a bombshell. And Democrats know it. Which is why they are so desperate to make the investigation go away. They know, as Republicans do, that the chief counsel of the IRS is one of only two Obama political appointees in the entire agency.

To quickly review why the new information, which came most succinctly in a nine-page congressional letter to IRS Commissioner Daniel Werfel, is big news:

When the scandal broke two months ago, in May, IRS leadership in Washington claimed the harassment of tea-party and other conservative groups requesting tax-exempt status was confined to the Cincinnati office, where a few rogue workers bungled the application process. Lois Lerner, then the head of the exempt organizations unit in Washington, said "line people in Cincinnati" did work that was "not so fine." They asked questions that "weren't really necessary," she claimed, and operated without "the appropriate level of sensitivity." But the targeting was "not intentional." Ousted acting commissioner Steven Miller also put it off on "people in Cincinnati." They provided "horrible customer service."

House investigators soon talked to workers in the Cincinnati office, who said everything they did came from Washington. Elizabeth Hofacre, in charge of processing tea-party applications in Cincinnati, told investigators that her work was overseen and directed by a lawyer in the IRS Washington office named Carter Hull.

Now comes Mr. Hull's testimony. And like Ms. Hofacre, he pointed his finger upward. Mr. Hull—a 48-year IRS veteran and an expert on tax exemption law—told investigators that tea-party applications under his review were sent upstairs within the Washington office, at the direction of Lois Lerner.

In April 2010, Hull was assigned to scrutinize certain tea-party applications. He requested more information from the groups. After he received responses, he felt he knew enough to determine whether the applications should be approved or denied.

But his recommendations were not carried out.

Michael Seto, head of Mr. Hull's unit, also spoke to investigators. He told them Lois Lerner made an unusual decision: Tea-party applications would undergo additional scrutiny—a multilayered review.

Mr. Hull told House investigators that at some point in the winter of 2010-11, Ms. Lerner's senior adviser, whose name is withheld in the publicly released partial interview transcript, told him the applications would require further review:

Q: "Did [the senior adviser to Ms. Lerner] indicate to you whether she agreed with your recommendations?"

A: "She did not say whether she agreed or not. She said it should go to chief counsel."

Q: "The IRS chief counsel?"

A: "The IRS chief counsel."

The IRS chief counsel is named William Wilkins. And again, he is one of only two Obama political appointees in the IRS.

What was the chief counsel's office looking for? The letter to Mr. Werfel says Mr. Hull's supervisor, Ronald Shoemaker, provided insight: The counsel's office wanted, in the words of the congressional committees, "information about the applicants' political activities leading up to the 2010 election." Mr. Shoemaker told investigators he didn't find that kind of question unreasonable, but he found the counsel's office to be "not very forthcoming": "We discussed it to some extent and they indicated that they wanted more development of possible political activity or political intervention right before the election period."

It's almost as if—my words—the conservative organizations in question were, during two major election cycles, deliberately held in a holding pattern.

So: What the IRS originally claimed was a rogue operation now reaches up not only to the Washington office, but into the office of the IRS chief counsel himself.

At the generally lacking House Oversight Committee Hearings on Thursday, some big things still got said.

Ms. Hofacre of the Cincinnati office testified that when she was given tea-party applications, she had to kick them upstairs. When she was given non-tea-party applications, they were sent on for normal treatment. Was she told to send liberal or progressive groups for special scrutiny? No, she did not scrutinize the applications of liberal or progressive groups. "I would send those to general inventory." Who got extra scrutiny? "They were all tea-party and patriot cases." She became "very frustrated" by the "micromanagement" from Washington. "It was like working in lost luggage." She applied to be transferred.

For his part, Mr. Hull backed up what he'd told House investigators. He described what was, essentially, a big, lengthy runaround in the Washington office in which no one was clear as to their reasons but everything was delayed. The multitiered scrutiny of the targeted groups was, he said, "unusual."

It was Maryland's Rep. Elijah Cummings, the panel's ranking Democrat, who, absurdly, asked Ms. Hofacre if the White House called the Cincinnati office to tell them what to do and whether she has knowledge of the president of the United States digging through the tax returns of citizens. Ms. Hofacre looked surprised. No, she replied.

It wasn't hard to imagine her thought bubble: Do congressmen think presidents call people like me and say, "Don't forget to harass my enemies"? Are congressmen that stupid?

Mr. Cummings is not, and his seeming desperation is telling. Recent congressional information leads to Washington—and now to very high up at the IRS. Meaning this is the point at which a scandal goes nowhere or, maybe, everywhere.

Rep. Trey Gowdy, a South Carolina Republican, finally woke the proceedings up with what he called "the evolution of the defense" since the scandal began. First, Ms. Lerner planted a question at a conference. Then she said the Cincinnati office did it—a narrative that was advanced by the president's spokesman, Jay Carney. Then came the suggestion the IRS was too badly managed to pull off a sophisticated conspiracy. Then the charge that liberal groups were targeted too—"we did it against both ends of the political spectrum." When the inspector general of the IRS said no, it was conservative groups that were targeted, he came under attack. Now the defense is that the White House wasn't involved, so case closed.

This is one Republican who is right about evolution.

Those trying to get to the bottom of the scandal have to dig in, pay attention. The administration's defenders, and their friends in the press, have made some progress in confusing the issue through misdirection and misstatement.

This is the moment things go forward or stall. Republicans need to find out how high the scandal went and why, exactly, it went there. To do that they'll have to up their game.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324448104578614220949743916.html

 
Battersbox said:
I haven't followed this too closely, but I was surprised there was no bump after Peggy Noonan's story last night:

The IRS scandal was connected this week not just to the Washington office—that had been established—but to the office of the chief counsel.

That is a bombshell—such a big one that it managed to emerge in spite of an unfocused, frequently off-point congressional hearing in which some members seemed to have accidentally woken up in the middle of a committee room, some seemed unaware of the implications of what their investigators had uncovered, one pretended that the investigation should end if IRS workers couldn't say the president had personally called and told them to harass his foes, and one seemed to be holding a filibuster on Pakistan.

Still, what landed was a bombshell. And Democrats know it. Which is why they are so desperate to make the investigation go away. They know, as Republicans do, that the chief counsel of the IRS is one of only two Obama political appointees in the entire agency.

To quickly review why the new information, which came most succinctly in a nine-page congressional letter to IRS Commissioner Daniel Werfel, is big news:

When the scandal broke two months ago, in May, IRS leadership in Washington claimed the harassment of tea-party and other conservative groups requesting tax-exempt status was confined to the Cincinnati office, where a few rogue workers bungled the application process. Lois Lerner, then the head of the exempt organizations unit in Washington, said "line people in Cincinnati" did work that was "not so fine." They asked questions that "weren't really necessary," she claimed, and operated without "the appropriate level of sensitivity." But the targeting was "not intentional." Ousted acting commissioner Steven Miller also put it off on "people in Cincinnati." They provided "horrible customer service."

House investigators soon talked to workers in the Cincinnati office, who said everything they did came from Washington. Elizabeth Hofacre, in charge of processing tea-party applications in Cincinnati, told investigators that her work was overseen and directed by a lawyer in the IRS Washington office named Carter Hull.

Now comes Mr. Hull's testimony. And like Ms. Hofacre, he pointed his finger upward. Mr. Hull—a 48-year IRS veteran and an expert on tax exemption law—told investigators that tea-party applications under his review were sent upstairs within the Washington office, at the direction of Lois Lerner.

In April 2010, Hull was assigned to scrutinize certain tea-party applications. He requested more information from the groups. After he received responses, he felt he knew enough to determine whether the applications should be approved or denied.

But his recommendations were not carried out.

Michael Seto, head of Mr. Hull's unit, also spoke to investigators. He told them Lois Lerner made an unusual decision: Tea-party applications would undergo additional scrutiny—a multilayered review.

Mr. Hull told House investigators that at some point in the winter of 2010-11, Ms. Lerner's senior adviser, whose name is withheld in the publicly released partial interview transcript, told him the applications would require further review:

Q: "Did [the senior adviser to Ms. Lerner] indicate to you whether she agreed with your recommendations?"

A: "She did not say whether she agreed or not. She said it should go to chief counsel."

Q: "The IRS chief counsel?"

A: "The IRS chief counsel."

The IRS chief counsel is named William Wilkins. And again, he is one of only two Obama political appointees in the IRS.

What was the chief counsel's office looking for? The letter to Mr. Werfel says Mr. Hull's supervisor, Ronald Shoemaker, provided insight: The counsel's office wanted, in the words of the congressional committees, "information about the applicants' political activities leading up to the 2010 election." Mr. Shoemaker told investigators he didn't find that kind of question unreasonable, but he found the counsel's office to be "not very forthcoming": "We discussed it to some extent and they indicated that they wanted more development of possible political activity or political intervention right before the election period."

It's almost as if—my words—the conservative organizations in question were, during two major election cycles, deliberately held in a holding pattern.

So: What the IRS originally claimed was a rogue operation now reaches up not only to the Washington office, but into the office of the IRS chief counsel himself.

At the generally lacking House Oversight Committee Hearings on Thursday, some big things still got said.

Ms. Hofacre of the Cincinnati office testified that when she was given tea-party applications, she had to kick them upstairs. When she was given non-tea-party applications, they were sent on for normal treatment. Was she told to send liberal or progressive groups for special scrutiny? No, she did not scrutinize the applications of liberal or progressive groups. "I would send those to general inventory." Who got extra scrutiny? "They were all tea-party and patriot cases." She became "very frustrated" by the "micromanagement" from Washington. "It was like working in lost luggage." She applied to be transferred.

For his part, Mr. Hull backed up what he'd told House investigators. He described what was, essentially, a big, lengthy runaround in the Washington office in which no one was clear as to their reasons but everything was delayed. The multitiered scrutiny of the targeted groups was, he said, "unusual."

It was Maryland's Rep. Elijah Cummings, the panel's ranking Democrat, who, absurdly, asked Ms. Hofacre if the White House called the Cincinnati office to tell them what to do and whether she has knowledge of the president of the United States digging through the tax returns of citizens. Ms. Hofacre looked surprised. No, she replied.

It wasn't hard to imagine her thought bubble: Do congressmen think presidents call people like me and say, "Don't forget to harass my enemies"? Are congressmen that stupid?

Mr. Cummings is not, and his seeming desperation is telling. Recent congressional information leads to Washington—and now to very high up at the IRS. Meaning this is the point at which a scandal goes nowhere or, maybe, everywhere.

Rep. Trey Gowdy, a South Carolina Republican, finally woke the proceedings up with what he called "the evolution of the defense" since the scandal began. First, Ms. Lerner planted a question at a conference. Then she said the Cincinnati office did it—a narrative that was advanced by the president's spokesman, Jay Carney. Then came the suggestion the IRS was too badly managed to pull off a sophisticated conspiracy. Then the charge that liberal groups were targeted too—"we did it against both ends of the political spectrum." When the inspector general of the IRS said no, it was conservative groups that were targeted, he came under attack. Now the defense is that the White House wasn't involved, so case closed.

This is one Republican who is right about evolution.

Those trying to get to the bottom of the scandal have to dig in, pay attention. The administration's defenders, and their friends in the press, have made some progress in confusing the issue through misdirection and misstatement.

This is the moment things go forward or stall. Republicans need to find out how high the scandal went and why, exactly, it went there. To do that they'll have to up their game.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324448104578614220949743916.html
Wow. So I guess the WH is connected after all. Should we be surprised?

 

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