IRS Apologizes For Targeting Conservative Political Groups In 2012 Ele (2 Viewers)

[rockaction]

If the kiddie table includes two federal judges, where's that leave you?

Judges asking for answers on why subpoenas were not appropriately answered does not mean these judges have jumped to the conclusion that there is this "pattern of destruction of evidence that conceals illegal activity by administrative branches" to be found. ETA: And that every piece of news about government incompetence fits into this grand conspiracy. The real stuff government gets wrong is more than enough on its own.

Nor have I jumped to that conclusion, if you read my posts. I want to know if there's a pattern. I'm not declaring that there is one.

My gut tells me something stinks. Also, it's an internet comment board, as I pointed out way back when. I don't need to be a responsible journalist. I'm allowed to have an opinion on things before all the evidence is in if I want.

You may take that opinion accordingly. I know I ignore the knee-jerk leftists on the board that defend, defend, defend without knowledge, cast aspersions, and use ad hominem as argument. I'm not trying to convince you or others because your mind is already made up. I come in here to post evidence and vent.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

If the kiddie table includes two federal judges, where's that leave you?

Judges asking for answers on why subpoenas were not appropriately answered does not mean these judges have jumped to the conclusion that there is this "pattern of destruction of evidence that conceals illegal activity by administrative branches" to be found. ETA: And that every piece of news about government incompetence fits into this grand conspiracy. The real stuff government gets wrong is more than enough on its own.

Nor have I jumped to that conclusion, if you read my posts. I want to know if there's a pattern. I'm not declaring that there is one.

My gut tells me something stinks. Also, it's an internet comment board, as I pointed out way back when. I don't need to be a responsible journalist. I'm allowed to have an opinion on things before all the evidence is in if I want.

You may take that opinion accordingly. I know I ignore the knee-jerk leftists on the board that defend, defend, defend without knowledge, cast aspersions, and use ad hominem as argument. I'm not trying to convince you or others because your mind is already made up. I come in here to post evidence and vent.

If there is such a pattern I'd want to know also. I'm not ignoring anything. The only part of my mind that is made up is that I won't be "sickened" from prematurely connecting dots to the oval office.

 

[rockaction]

If the kiddie table includes two federal judges, where's that leave you?

Judges asking for answers on why subpoenas were not appropriately answered does not mean these judges have jumped to the conclusion that there is this "pattern of destruction of evidence that conceals illegal activity by administrative branches" to be found. ETA: And that every piece of news about government incompetence fits into this grand conspiracy. The real stuff government gets wrong is more than enough on its own.

Nor have I jumped to that conclusion, if you read my posts. I want to know if there's a pattern. I'm not declaring that there is one.

My gut tells me something stinks. Also, it's an internet comment board, as I pointed out way back when. I don't need to be a responsible journalist. I'm allowed to have an opinion on things before all the evidence is in if I want.

You may take that opinion accordingly. I know I ignore the knee-jerk leftists on the board that defend, defend, defend without knowledge, cast aspersions, and use ad hominem as argument. I'm not trying to convince you or others because your mind is already made up. I come in here to post evidence and vent.

If there is such a pattern I'd want to know also. I'm not ignoring anything. The only part of my mind that is made up is that I won't be "sickened" from prematurely connecting dots to the oval office.

I haven't connected any dots to the oval office. Ever. You're reading into my argument. The agencies could have acted alone.

eta* and stop using quotes out of context of mine when they don't accurately represent my position in the least. Thanks.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

If the kiddie table includes two federal judges, where's that leave you?

Judges asking for answers on why subpoenas were not appropriately answered does not mean these judges have jumped to the conclusion that there is this "pattern of destruction of evidence that conceals illegal activity by administrative branches" to be found. ETA: And that every piece of news about government incompetence fits into this grand conspiracy. The real stuff government gets wrong is more than enough on its own.

Nor have I jumped to that conclusion, if you read my posts. I want to know if there's a pattern. I'm not declaring that there is one.

My gut tells me something stinks. Also, it's an internet comment board, as I pointed out way back when. I don't need to be a responsible journalist. I'm allowed to have an opinion on things before all the evidence is in if I want.

You may take that opinion accordingly. I know I ignore the knee-jerk leftists on the board that defend, defend, defend without knowledge, cast aspersions, and use ad hominem as argument. I'm not trying to convince you or others because your mind is already made up. I come in here to post evidence and vent.

If there is such a pattern I'd want to know also. I'm not ignoring anything. The only part of my mind that is made up is that I won't be "sickened" from prematurely connecting dots to the oval office.

I haven't connected any dots to the oval office. Ever. You're reading into my argument. The agencies could have acted alone.

eta* and stop using quotes out of context of mine when they don't accurately represent my position in the least. Thanks.

What is out of context?

 

[rockaction]

If the kiddie table includes two federal judges, where's that leave you?

Judges asking for answers on why subpoenas were not appropriately answered does not mean these judges have jumped to the conclusion that there is this "pattern of destruction of evidence that conceals illegal activity by administrative branches" to be found. ETA: And that every piece of news about government incompetence fits into this grand conspiracy. The real stuff government gets wrong is more than enough on its own.

Nor have I jumped to that conclusion, if you read my posts. I want to know if there's a pattern. I'm not declaring that there is one.

My gut tells me something stinks. Also, it's an internet comment board, as I pointed out way back when. I don't need to be a responsible journalist. I'm allowed to have an opinion on things before all the evidence is in if I want.

You may take that opinion accordingly. I know I ignore the knee-jerk leftists on the board that defend, defend, defend without knowledge, cast aspersions, and use ad hominem as argument. I'm not trying to convince you or others because your mind is already made up. I come in here to post evidence and vent.

If there is such a pattern I'd want to know also. I'm not ignoring anything. The only part of my mind that is made up is that I won't be "sickened" from prematurely connecting dots to the oval office.

I haven't connected any dots to the oval office. Ever. You're reading into my argument. The agencies could have acted alone.

eta* and stop using quotes out of context of mine when they don't accurately represent my position in the least. Thanks.

What is out of context?

Imputing that I said anything about Obama's role in this by using my quoting my exact language and then asserting that I was "prematurely connecting the dots to the oval office (sic)," which I wasn't.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

House investigators: IRS tech experts say Lerner’s hard drive only 'scratched,' not destroyed

House investigators said Tuesday that the computer hard drive of ex-agency official Lois Lerner -- a key figure in the IRS targeting scandal -- was only “scratched,” not irreparably damaged, as Americans have been led to believe.

GOP-led Ways and Means Committee investigators, in their quest to recover missing Lerner emails, learned her hard drive was damaged but recoverable by talking to IRS information-technology experts, after the government originally refused to make them available, according to the committee.

“It is unbelievable that we cannot get a simple, straight answer from the IRS about this hard drive,” said committee Chairman Dave Camp.

The Michigan Republican said the new information also raises more questions about potential criminal wrongdoing at the IRS because the committee was told no data was recoverable and the physical hard drive was recycled and potentially shredded.

In addition, learning that the hard drive was only scratched also raises questions about why the IRS refused to use outside experts to recover the data.

“In fact, in-house professionals at the IRS recommended the agency seek outside assistance in recovering the data,” the committee said Tuesday in a release.

House investigators said they also are trying to determine whether the scratch was accidental or deliberate.

“If the IRS would just come clean and tell Congress and the American people what really happened, we could put an end to this,” Camp said. “Our investigators will not stop until we find the full truth.”

Lerner was the IRS’s exempt organizations director during the period of 2009 to mid-2011 -- when applications for tax-exempt status from Tea Party groups and other conservative organizations were held up for extra scrutiny.

The committee also said the information gleamed from the new interviews conflicts with a July 18 IRS court filing that states the data on the hard drive was unrecoverable -- including years of missing emails.

On June 13, more than one year into the investigation, and one month after the committee was promised it would receive all of Lerner’s emails, Congress learned that potentially thousands of them, over roughly two years, were destroyed as a result of a 2011 computer crash.

The recent interviews are bolstered by former federal law-enforcement and Defense Department forensic experts also telling investigators that most of the data on a scratched drive should be recoverable, the committee said.

A declaration filed Friday by the IRS stated the agency tried but failed to recover the data. The agency also said it is not sure what happened to the hard drive, other than saying they think it was recycled, which according to the court filing means “shredded.”

The committee also said a review of internal IRS documents found Lerner’s computer was actually described as “recovered.”

The targeting to the groups applying to the IRS was made public in May 2013 by Lerner. She has since refused to testify before Congress, invoking the Fifth Amendment, and resigned in September 2013.

The IRS has turned over tens of thousands of emails to and from Lerner’s account and says it has recovered thousands of others that were lost when her government-issued computer crashed.

Democrats say there is no scandal and that Republicans are trying to turn it into an election-year issue.

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, the top Democrat on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, protested Monday about the continuing House investigations, including his committee’s plans to call IRS Commissioner John Koskinen to testify on Wednesday, for the third time over the past month.

"This public harassment of an agency head is not only an abuse of authority, but a dereliction of the committee's obligation to conduct responsible oversight on a host of other critical issues within our jurisdiction," he said.

Investigators also are still trying to learn whether the targeting of conservative groups was ordered by the White House.

 

[shadrap]

We should all be afraid when a supposedly non-biased government agency can be used AGAINST individuals & organizations for political purposes. I've went toe to toe vrs the IRS. Even if you win(which I did) you still lose. Pretty cozy when the timeframe for the emails in question are "lost" & Lois takes the 5th.

Open & Transparent my ###.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Also on Tuesday, Republicans on the House oversight committee released testimony in which IRS Deputy Associate Chief Counsel Thomas Kane said the agency is no longer certain whether it recycled all of the backup tapes containing Lerner’s e-mails. He said the question of whether some of the tapes still exist is “an issue that is being looked at.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2014/07/23/wait-lois-lerners-missing-e-mails-may-still-be-available/

 

[Quez]

Wow

 

[MaxThreshold]

Nothing to see here, right? It's all an unfortunate coincidence?

 

[Sand]

House investigators said Tuesday that the computer hard drive of ex-agency official Lois Lerner -- a key figure in the IRS targeting scandal -- was only “scratched,” not irreparably damaged, as Americans have been led to believe.

Ok, IT guys, how do you just "scratch" a drive? This isn't a 45 - those platters are encased pretty well. I'm Shuked here.

"This public harassment of an agency head is not only an abuse of authority, but a dereliction of the committee's obligation to conduct responsible oversight on a host of other critical issues within our jurisdiction," he said.

Every time they ask they get a different answer. And they complain they keep getting asked questions? Brass ones to say this.

 

[tommyGunZ]

The Lerner hard drive may rival Geraldo's Al Capone's tomb moment.

 

[Rayderr]

House investigators said Tuesday that the computer hard drive of ex-agency official Lois Lerner -- a key figure in the IRS targeting scandal -- was only “scratched,” not irreparably damaged, as Americans have been led to believe.

Ok, IT guys, how do you just "scratch" a drive? This isn't a 45 - those platters are encased pretty well. I'm Shuked here.

"This public harassment of an agency head is not only an abuse of authority, but a dereliction of the committee's obligation to conduct responsible oversight on a host of other critical issues within our jurisdiction," he said.

Every time they ask they get a different answer. And they complain they keep getting asked questions? Brass ones to say this.

For laptops, the most common way is for the laptop to experience a sudden jolt (i.e. drop) while it's reading or writing the hard drive.

 

[Widbil83]

 

[avoiding injuries]

Lois Lerner calls conservatives a**holes and crazies. Still nothing to see here.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/30/lois-lerner-hated-conservatives-new-emails-show/

 

[Quez]

So now we have evidence that she definitely didn't like the groups that were targeted. I wonder if they can lock her up based on this alone.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Lois Lerner calls conservatives a**holes and crazies. Still nothing to see here.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/30/lois-lerner-hated-conservatives-new-emails-show/

How quaint, our humble civil servant was on vacay in London.

[SIZE=9.5pt]LERNER: I'm ready. Overheard some ladies talking about American today. According to them we've bankrupted ourselves and at through. We'll never be able to pay off our debt and are going down the tubes. They don't seem to see that they can't afford to keep up their welfare state either. Strange[/SIZE].

So we don't need to worry about alien teRrorists. It's our own crazies that will take us down.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/lerner_email_a.pdf

Well it's not like the IRS could be motivated to hide any concerning messages or anything.

 

[dutch]

So now we have evidence that she definitely didn't like the groups that were targeted. I wonder if they can lock her up based on this alone.

If it were up to the a-hules and the kRazies she would be.

 

[ffldrew]

So now we have evidence that she definitely didn't like the groups that were targeted. I wonder if they can lock her up based on this alone.

Pretty huge stretch that you could equate her feelings of a friends characterizations of callers to talk shows, who her friend describes as gun and ammo waiting for the end types, with the various groups she is supposedly targeting - and if she ever was "targeting" the hosts of the shows I guess there would be evidence of the IRS harassment.

If we are going after some lower level IRS stooge for this kind of language and thought - it would be really cool to see some of **** Cheney's email messages from back in the day to compare.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So now we have evidence that she definitely didn't like the groups that were targeted. I wonder if they can lock her up based on this alone.

Pretty huge stretch that you could equate her feelings of a friends characterizations of callers to talk shows, who her friend describes as gun and ammo waiting for the end types, with the various groups she is supposedly targeting - and if she ever was "targeting" the hosts of the shows I guess there would be evidence of the IRS harassment.

If we are going after some lower level IRS stooge for this kind of language and thought - it would be really cool to see some of **** Cheney's email messages from back in the day to compare.

It's really an open question why we shouldn't be able to see all politicians' and bureaucrats' emails (as long as not intelligence stuff), it's all public record.

 

[ffldrew]

So now we have evidence that she definitely didn't like the groups that were targeted. I wonder if they can lock her up based on this alone.

Pretty huge stretch that you could equate her feelings of a friends characterizations of callers to talk shows, who her friend describes as gun and ammo waiting for the end types, with the various groups she is supposedly targeting - and if she ever was "targeting" the hosts of the shows I guess there would be evidence of the IRS harassment.

If we are going after some lower level IRS stooge for this kind of language and thought - it would be really cool to see some of **** Cheney's email messages from back in the day to compare.

It's really an open question why we shouldn't be able to see all politicians' and bureaucrats' emails (as long as not intelligence stuff), it's all public record.

For the childrens sake and those with sensitive eyes and ears we would have probably had to hold the Cheney/Bush ones back to late night cable - both guys loved the f bomb

 

[GroveDiesel]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

unreal

 

[tommyGunZ]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

 

[StrikeS2k]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

 

[jamny]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

You gotta be ####tin' me. Even you can't seriously believe what you wrote.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

You gotta be ####tin' me. Even you can't seriously believe what you wrote.

Uhmm...yeah...yes he does.

TGunz slurps up the Administration talking points like a political porn star. Also makes a lot of excuses for them. You won't find anyone further left or more in the tank for Obama than TGunz.

Frankly, his beliefs scare me.

 

[ffldrew]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

You gotta be ####tin' me. Even you can't seriously believe what you wrote.

Actually one of the reasons(perhaps the last one left) for a corporation to deploy Blackberries is the ability to remote wipe them - they have had this in Blackberry Server since the beginning and was once a key selling feature

 

[jamny]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

You gotta be ####tin' me. Even you can't seriously believe what you wrote.

Actually one of the reasons(perhaps the last one left) for a corporation to deploy Blackberries is the ability to remote wipe them - they have had this in Blackberry Server since the beginning and was once a key selling feature

I wasn't talking about the ability to wipe out the info, I was saying that I find it hard to believe that the info was innocently wiped out AFTER the investigation had begun. She didn't think that it might be useful to possibly prove her innocence.

This is my first time posting in this thread, as I've waited for things to clear up, but that is about as damning as it gets, imo. That seems like clear obstruction.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

When a Congressional investigation is underway, I would fully expect the government (or corporation) to comply with the law and preserve any and all potential evidence rather than wiping then destroying it,

 

[The Commish]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

Only proper way to respond to something like that. Before we know it, Varmit and TGunz will be roommates.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1. Typically a cost vs benefit discussion takes place. I think it's obvious it's worth the cost now. - Has a collection from the archive actually been ordered yet?

2. So as to Lerner, they 1. "lost" once, 2. failed to backup, 3. scratched the hard drive, 4. failed to mention the archive as a source of data and failed to retrieve from it, and 5. deleted the Blackberry data. - There are public record laws that at some point become criminal for multiple violations.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

...

I think it's the IT guys that are revealing all this now - under court order. The failure to report part is on the lawyers and the directors for the IRS.

 

[bagger]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

When a Congressional investigation is underway, I would fully expect the government (or corporation) to comply with the law and preserve any and all potential evidence rather than wiping then destroying it,

yes, when litigation I am involved in starts we get an email stating to not delete anything as everything needs to be gathered for discovery.Now who knows what practices the govt has, but clearly if the best case scenario is the irs is so lax with preserving information they are not fit to be doing the job they do for a number of reasons. And that's best case scenario.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

When a Congressional investigation is underway, I would fully expect the government (or corporation) to comply with the law and preserve any and all potential evidence rather than wiping then destroying it,

Of course. And if there is evidence that Lerner violated a litigation hold order, she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Are you alleging that Lerner violated a legal hold order?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Two new developments here:

1) It turns out that there IS a backup system and that the email aren't missing, the government just deemed them "too difficult to retrieve." Funny thing is that they never mentioned that the emails resided on a backup and that they could be retrieved at all.

2) Lerner also had a Blackberry that would have had copies of a bunch of emails as well. After the investigation started, that just happened to be erased and then scrapped. Totally innocent I'm sure.

1) When you say "the govt", are you referring to the IT department responsible for data retrieval? An entity 100% separate from the IRS with ZERO reason to participate in a data hiding scandal?

2) People switch phones at my company all the time. When they do, the old phones are wiped and either returned to the vendor or wiped and given to a new user. Are you suggesting that we should preserve all of the data on every phone when every employee in America changes phones?

You gotta be ####tin' me. Even you can't seriously believe what you wrote.

Actually one of the reasons(perhaps the last one left) for a corporation to deploy Blackberries is the ability to remote wipe them - they have had this in Blackberry Server since the beginning and was once a key selling feature

I wasn't talking about the ability to wipe out the info, I was saying that I find it hard to believe that the info was innocently wiped out AFTER the investigation had begun. She didn't think that it might be useful to possibly prove her innocence.

This is my first time posting in this thread, as I've waited for things to clear up, but that is about as damning as it gets, imo. That seems like clear obstruction.

What part seems like clear obstruction? Lerner's hard drive beeing currupted, her being issued a new computer, and the IT folks wiping her HD clean in order to either send it back or issue it to a new user? Or Lerner trading in her old phone for a new phone and that old phone being wiped?

Both seem to be normal business protocol for the law firms and business entities have worked for in the past.

ETA: My guess is that there is nothing nefarious to the Blackberry getting wiped. I've participated in tons of discovery over the years, and headed a large scale e-discovery project in a billion dollar litigation several years ago. We extracted all exchange data from the servers and didn't collect any data from individual Blackberries.

 

[Sand]

Whoops - Eric Holder gets caught trying to leak documents. Nothing like an impartial AG office. From Breitbart:

A senior communications aide to Attorney General Eric Holder seemingly called House oversight committee chairman Darrell Issa's staff by accident and asked for their help spinning new revelations about the IRS scandal, Issa said in a September 8 letter to Holder.

The aide, Brian Fallon, is a former senior aide to Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and a well-known personality on Capitol Hill. The letter describes Fallon as “audibly shaken” when he realizes his request to leak documents to help get ahead of news stories about them was mistakenly made to the very office he was seeking to undermine. Issa believes the call was intended to be made to Democratic Rep. Elijah Cumming's staff, the ranking member on the oversight panel, the letter said.

According to the letter, Fallon – who is not named in the letter but confirmed he made the call – asked if the aides could release the IRS scandal documents to “selected reporters” to give Fallon an “opportunity to comment publicly on it.”

Fallon explained to Issa aides that the Justice Department's Office of Legislative Affairs had not permitted him to release the documents to the public and he wanted to get ahead of the story “before the Majority” – meaning Issa – could share it, according to the letter.

Issa aides – who had placed the call on speakerphone – were “caught off guard by the unusual nature of the call and the odd request” and asked Fallon to “e-mail the material for evaluation.”

“At this point,” Fallon “abruptly placed the call on hold for approximately three minutes.” When Fallon returned to the call, “he was audibly shaken. He immediately stated that there was a 'change in plans' and that there would be no effort” by DOJ to release the material early.

 

[tommyboy]

geez, these guys are criminals, there needs to be a criminal investigation

Now, the private-jet company NetJets is claiming in a lawsuit that as part of its tax dispute with the agency the IRS “wiped clean a number of computer hard drives containing emails and other electronic documents that the Government was required to produce.”

NetJets sued the IRS in 2011, claiming that it improperly applied a ticket tax on users of its aircraft that is meant for commercial airline passengers. The IRS countersued claiming that NetJets “has failed, neglected or refused to pay its federal tax liabilities . . . in full.” But its argument was undercut in 2012 when Congress changed the tax code to make it clear the air-passenger-ticket tax doesn’t apply to private firms such as NetJets, whose customers buy time-shares in planes operated by the company.

In its latest court filing, NetJets claims the IRS has been concealing evidence. Its lawyers say the computers of three key IRS employees were wiped clean, including the computer of “an excise-tax policy manager and a key decision maker regarding the application of the section 4261 ticket tax to whole and fractional aircraft-management companies.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/389251/irs-erased-key-records-lawsuit-netjets-says-john-fund

 

[Sand]

geez, these guys are criminals, there needs to be a criminal investigation

Now, the private-jet company NetJets is claiming in a lawsuit that as part of its tax dispute with the agency the IRS “wiped clean a number of computer hard drives containing emails and other electronic documents that the Government was required to produce.”

NetJets sued the IRS in 2011, claiming that it improperly applied a ticket tax on users of its aircraft that is meant for commercial airline passengers. The IRS countersued claiming that NetJets “has failed, neglected or refused to pay its federal tax liabilities . . . in full.” But its argument was undercut in 2012 when Congress changed the tax code to make it clear the air-passenger-ticket tax doesn’t apply to private firms such as NetJets, whose customers buy time-shares in planes operated by the company.

In its latest court filing, NetJets claims the IRS has been concealing evidence. Its lawyers say the computers of three key IRS employees were wiped clean, including the computer of “an excise-tax policy manager and a key decision maker regarding the application of the section 4261 ticket tax to whole and fractional aircraft-management companies.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/389251/irs-erased-key-records-lawsuit-netjets-says-john-fund

Do Rico statues apply to government employees?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Whoops - Eric Holder gets caught trying to leak documents. Nothing like an impartial AG office. From Breitbart:

A senior communications aide to Attorney General Eric Holder seemingly called House oversight committee chairman Darrell Issa's staff by accident and asked for their help spinning new revelations about the IRS scandal, Issa said in a September 8 letter to Holder.

The aide, Brian Fallon, is a former senior aide to Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and a well-known personality on Capitol Hill. The letter describes Fallon as “audibly shaken” when he realizes his request to leak documents to help get ahead of news stories about them was mistakenly made to the very office he was seeking to undermine. Issa believes the call was intended to be made to Democratic Rep. Elijah Cumming's staff, the ranking member on the oversight panel, the letter said.

According to the letter, Fallon – who is not named in the letter but confirmed he made the call – asked if the aides could release the IRS scandal documents to “selected reporters” to give Fallon an “opportunity to comment publicly on it.”

Fallon explained to Issa aides that the Justice Department's Office of Legislative Affairs had not permitted him to release the documents to the public and he wanted to get ahead of the story “before the Majority” – meaning Issa – could share it, according to the letter.

Issa aides – who had placed the call on speakerphone – were “caught off guard by the unusual nature of the call and the odd request” and asked Fallon to “e-mail the material for evaluation.”

“At this point,” Fallon “abruptly placed the call on hold for approximately three minutes.” When Fallon returned to the call, “he was audibly shaken. He immediately stated that there was a 'change in plans' and that there would be no effort” by DOJ to release the material early.

Why in the world would you continue to not only read stuff from Brietbart, but actually believe anything they report or Darryl Issa says? How many times do these kind of scandalous "allegations" need to be proven false for smart guys like you to question the source?

 

[tommyboy]

Whoops - Eric Holder gets caught trying to leak documents. Nothing like an impartial AG office. From Breitbart:

A senior communications aide to Attorney General Eric Holder seemingly called House oversight committee chairman Darrell Issa's staff by accident and asked for their help spinning new revelations about the IRS scandal, Issa said in a September 8 letter to Holder.

The aide, Brian Fallon, is a former senior aide to Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and a well-known personality on Capitol Hill. The letter describes Fallon as “audibly shaken” when he realizes his request to leak documents to help get ahead of news stories about them was mistakenly made to the very office he was seeking to undermine. Issa believes the call was intended to be made to Democratic Rep. Elijah Cumming's staff, the ranking member on the oversight panel, the letter said.

According to the letter, Fallon – who is not named in the letter but confirmed he made the call – asked if the aides could release the IRS scandal documents to “selected reporters” to give Fallon an “opportunity to comment publicly on it.”

Fallon explained to Issa aides that the Justice Department's Office of Legislative Affairs had not permitted him to release the documents to the public and he wanted to get ahead of the story “before the Majority” – meaning Issa – could share it, according to the letter.

Issa aides – who had placed the call on speakerphone – were “caught off guard by the unusual nature of the call and the odd request” and asked Fallon to “e-mail the material for evaluation.”

“At this point,” Fallon “abruptly placed the call on hold for approximately three minutes.” When Fallon returned to the call, “he was audibly shaken. He immediately stated that there was a 'change in plans' and that there would be no effort” by DOJ to release the material early.

Why in the world would you continue to not only read stuff from Brietbart, but actually believe anything they report or Darryl Issa says? How many times do these kind of scandalous "allegations" need to be proven false for smart guys like you to question the source?

you can find the story on many other sites beside breitbart.

 

[HellToupee]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/03/bombshell-memo-jeanne-shaheen-conspired-with-white-house-insider-on-irs-targeting-scandal/

Jeanne Shaheen , well well well.

 

[Widbil83]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/03/bombshell-memo-jeanne-shaheen-conspired-with-white-house-insider-on-irs-targeting-scandal/

Jeanne Shaheen , well well well.

But Obama said there wasn't even a "smidgen of corruption" going on here.

 

[Fennis]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/03/bombshell-memo-jeanne-shaheen-conspired-with-white-house-insider-on-irs-targeting-scandal/

Jeanne Shaheen , well well well.

I'm confused. where is the bombshell memo? Is the memo linked elsewhere that Im not seeing?

They quoted this part of the letter, what is the bombshell?

"The IRS is aware of the current public interest in this issue "

"These regulations have been in place since 1959."

"We will consider proposed changes in this area as we work with Tax-Exempt and Government Entities and the Treasury Department’s Office of Tax Policy to identify tax issues that should be addressed. "

"I hope this information is helpful."

"I am sending a similar response to your colleagues"

 

[Sand]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/03/bombshell-memo-jeanne-shaheen-conspired-with-white-house-insider-on-irs-targeting-scandal/

Jeanne Shaheen , well well well.

Too late to matter.

 

[rockaction]

This is so hubristic and embarrassing. Koskinen is just the number one ####### (yes, I cursed) in government right now. Are these guys sociopaths or psychopaths? I can't figure out which.

Glenn Reynolds: "Let's make it miserable for him instead."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2014/11/04/irs-commissioner-predicts-miserable-2015-tax-filing-season/

 

[fatness]

So Congress gives the IRS more to do and less to do it with? That should work well.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2014/11/04/irs-commissioner-predicts-miserable-2015-tax-filing-season/

There are five key factors at play – complicating the upcoming filing season (that’s when you file your 2014 tax return). The IRS agency budget is the number one challenge, Koskinen said. The House has voted to cut the IRS budget for 2015 by $341 million, and the Senate has proposed to increase it by $240 million—that would still be 7% below 2010 funding levels.

In the meantime, Congress keeps passing laws that the IRS has to implement, namely the Affordable Care Act (“ACA”) and the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (“FATCA”). For example, Koskinen said the IRS requested $430 million in 2014 from Congress to implement the ACA but got zero, forcing it to take money out of enforcement and taxpayer services budgets.

This will be the first filing season with two major provisions from the Affordable Care Act –the premium tax credit and the individual shared responsibility payment–on Form 1040. National Taxpayer Advocate Olson said she’s very concerned about the IRS receiving accurate information from the health exchanges.

 

[rockaction]

6400 emails found, further admissions, possible criminal charges.

The IRS Was Very Naughty, But It's Sorry, Says Inspector General

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/26/politics/irs-lois-lerner-criminal-activity/

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

6400 emails found, further admissions, possible criminal charges.

The IRS Was Very Naughty, But It's Sorry, Says Inspector General

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/26/politics/irs-lois-lerner-criminal-activity/

"There is potential criminal activity," Treasury Deputy Inspector General Timothy Camus told the House Oversight Committee Thursday.

Ok, that is a change in the weather.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

...Anyone who works in an office where there are departments left to their own devices has seen what happened here.

Please expand, BS.

Anyone who works in an office where there are departments left to their own devices has seen an episode of Restaurant Stake Out has seen what happened here.

(And no presenting examples of how this this is just human nature in less visible jobs is not meant to trivialize what happened here.)

I like Mystery Diners better.

Mystery Dinners tends to be one or two bad apples spoils the bunch

Restaurant Stakeout is "you need systems in place so everyone is on point"

This was still in doubt?

Our investigation uncovered substantial evidence of mismanagement, poor judgment and institutional inertia, leading to the belief by many tax-exempt applicants that the IRS targeted them based on their political viewpoints,” Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs Peter J. Kadzik wrote.

“But poor management is not a crime,” Kadzik wrote. “We found no evidence that any IRS official acted on political, discriminatory, corrupt, or other inappropriate motives that would support a criminal prosecution.”

:

:

“We also found no evidence that any official involved in the handling of tax-exempt applications or IRS leadership attempted to obstruct justice,” Kadzik said.