IRS Apologizes For Targeting Conservative Political Groups In 2012 Ele (1 Viewer)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Due to a "computer crash", the IRS lost all of Lois Lerner's emails to the White House and other democrat offices from Jan 2009 - Apr 2011. Seems legit.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=384506

Perhaps another IT guy can correct me, but this explanation is just 100% ridiculous.

How on earth do you have all of her internal emails, but not her emails going to an external source???

The only explanation is that her particular mailbox was deleted, therefore you can recover all her internal emails through other people's mailboxes.

While it is possible to delete a user's mailbox, any competent system should have backups, and I would assume that is the case with the IRS!!!

100% BS. There are disaster recovery sites and 7 year retention policies in all but the most basic mom and pop shops. If all of those places blew up we could just get them from the NSA.

This is not true. Many, many companies have terrible DR and retention policies. Most companies are working hard to get to the point where they have these things, but many are not close yet. You would think the IRS would have a great plan, but who knows.

The one way I could see the IRS having some claim here is if: Lerner saved/archived all her old emails in pst's onto her computer hard drive, AND that hard drive crashed, AND the data was unrecoverable, AND if the IRS did not backup/autoarchive all employee pst's, AND the IRS copied over / recycled their network backup tapes AND that happened before the period of the retention notice. Given all the emails she must have I seriously doubt her hard drive would hold all those psts' GBs, even a portion of them.

However if you notice in those FOIA documents obtained by Think Progress at least one of the key emails referenced is from April 2010, which is right in the wheelhouse of this missing 2009-2011 gap.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

Yeah, that's great. From a liberal group that got a redacted FOIA. Even CNN is laughing at you. I remember when Maurile posted it, and I then, and protested, but out of respect for Maurile, and coupled with an aversion to politics, didn't make a stink.

Don't follow it. Don't need to. Let's investigate, and let it play out, is all I've said. When MSNBC has turned on your butt, you're screwed.

As MT pointed out, think progress is the group that made the foia request.

Yeah, and I remember it off the top of my head, believe it or not. Don't even need to look it up. That's how big of a joke that was, with due respect to MT's explanation, again. They requested the FOIA. Good on them. Do you think they were provided with accurate information?

CNN and MSNBC are even now laughing at this explanation.

I don't even dislike Obama -- this reeks to high stink.

Wonder why Fox or other conservative outlets have made similar FOIA requests if the think progress request is so stinky?

Hasn't the Republican Senatorial Committee done so? And been stonewalled? Isn't this what this is all about? A quick Google search tells me Judicial Watch sued the IRS for documents.

Look, let it play out. That's all I ask. But chalking this up to a manufactured scandal or a partisan political attempt at mere innuendo seems less and less likely by the day.

So the documents were released to ThinkProgress, but not to the Senatorial Committee? Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[tommyboy]

oops, we lost more emails!

It’s not just Lois Lerner’s e-mails. The Internal Revenue Service says it can’t produce e-mails from six more employees involved in the targeting of conservative groups, according to two Republicans investigating the scandal.

[SIZE=1em]The IRS told Ways and Means chairman Dave Camp and subcommittee chairman Charles Boustany that computer crashes resulted in additional lost e-mails, including from Nikole Flax, the chief of staff to former IRS commissioner Steven Miller, who was fired in the wake of the targeting scandal. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]The revelation about Lerner’s e-mails rekindled the scandal and today’s news has further inflamed Republicans. Camp and Boustany are now demanding a special prosecutor to investigate “every angle” of the targeting. They expressed particular outrage that the agency has known since February that it would not be able to produce the e-mails requested by the committee yet did not apprise the committee of that fact, and they charged in a statement that the IRS is attempting to “cover up the fact that it convenient lost key documents in the investigation.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]If Lerner is the central figure in the scandal — Oversight Committee chairman Darrell Issa said Monday evening he believes she was the senior-most official involved — Flax may be an important auxiliary figure. E-mails produced in response to a Freedom of Information Act request from the group Judicial Watch show Flax giving the green light to Lerner’s request to meet with Department of Justice officials to explore the possibility of criminally prosecuting nonprofit groups — at the suggestion of Democratic senator Sheldon Whitehouse — for engaging in political activity after declaring on their application for nonprofit status that they had no plans to do so.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]E-mails uncovered by the committee last week showed that, in preparation for her meeting with the Department of Justice, Lerner and one of her advisers transmitted 1.1 million pages of data on nonprofit groups, including confidential taxpayer information, to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, potentially in violation of federal law.[/SIZE]

 

[rockaction]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

Yeah, that's great. From a liberal group that got a redacted FOIA. Even CNN is laughing at you. I remember when Maurile posted it, and I then, and protested, but out of respect for Maurile, and coupled with an aversion to politics, didn't make a stink.

Don't follow it. Don't need to. Let's investigate, and let it play out, is all I've said. When MSNBC has turned on your butt, you're screwed.

As MT pointed out, think progress is the group that made the foia request.

Yeah, and I remember it off the top of my head, believe it or not. Don't even need to look it up. That's how big of a joke that was, with due respect to MT's explanation, again. They requested the FOIA. Good on them. Do you think they were provided with accurate information?

CNN and MSNBC are even now laughing at this explanation.

I don't even dislike Obama -- this reeks to high stink.

Wonder why Fox or other conservative outlets have made similar FOIA requests if the think progress request is so stinky?

Hasn't the Republican Senatorial Committee done so? And been stonewalled? Isn't this what this is all about? A quick Google search tells me Judicial Watch sued the IRS for documents.

Look, let it play out. That's all I ask. But chalking this up to a manufactured scandal or a partisan political attempt at mere innuendo seems less and less likely by the day.

So the documents were released to ThinkProgress, but not to the Senatorial Committee? Is that what you are suggesting?

Yeah. The ones they wanted to be released.

Um, the more I look into this -- and I am nowhere near perfect about it -- isn't that the crux of the issue? Congress wants the emails. IRS won't produce?

 

[rockaction]

oops, we lost more emails!

It’s not just Lois Lerner’s e-mails. The Internal Revenue Service says it can’t produce e-mails from six more employees involved in the targeting of conservative groups, according to two Republicans investigating the scandal.

[SIZE=1em]The IRS told Ways and Means chairman Dave Camp and subcommittee chairman Charles Boustany that computer crashes resulted in additional lost e-mails, including from Nikole Flax, the chief of staff to former IRS commissioner Steven Miller, who was fired in the wake of the targeting scandal. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]The revelation about Lerner’s e-mails rekindled the scandal and today’s news has further inflamed Republicans. Camp and Boustany are now demanding a special prosecutor to investigate “every angle” of the targeting. They expressed particular outrage that the agency has known since February that it would not be able to produce the e-mails requested by the committee yet did not apprise the committee of that fact, and they charged in a statement that the IRS is attempting to “cover up the fact that it convenient lost key documents in the investigation.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]If Lerner is the central figure in the scandal — Oversight Committee chairman Darrell Issa said Monday evening he believes she was the senior-most official involved — Flax may be an important auxiliary figure. E-mails produced in response to a Freedom of Information Act request from the group Judicial Watch show Flax giving the green light to Lerner’s request to meet with Department of Justice officials to explore the possibility of criminally prosecuting nonprofit groups — at the suggestion of Democratic senator Sheldon Whitehouse — for engaging in political activity after declaring on their application for nonprofit status that they had no plans to do so.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1em]E-mails uncovered by the committee last week showed that, in preparation for her meeting with the Department of Justice, Lerner and one of her advisers transmitted 1.1 million pages of data on nonprofit groups, including confidential taxpayer information, to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, potentially in violation of federal law.[/SIZE]

opps (sic)

I just love saying "opps" when it's too stupid for words.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

That chart contradicts previously available information, so I'm not really sure what the real story is. I haven't looked at the underlying documents provided in response to the FOIA request.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323873904578571363311816922

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/irs-tea-party-targeting-investigation-93503.html

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456

 

[TPW]

tommyboy, on 17 Jun 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

oops, we lost more emails!

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/380576/irs-has-lost-more-e-mails-eliana-johnson

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Nixon should have just changed his political affiliation and burned the White House tapes. Being a member of a Democrat administration seems to come with a get out of jail free card.

 

[tommyboy]

payback:

Internal Revenue Service (IRS) – Included in the bill is $10.95 billion for the IRS – a cut of $341 million below the fiscal year 2014 enacted level and $1.5 billion below the President’s budget request. This will bring the agency’s budget below the sequester level and below the level that was in place in fiscal year 2008. This funding level is sufficient for the IRS to perform its core duties, including taxpayer services and the proper collection of funds, but will require the agency to streamline and make better use of its budget.

In addition, due to the inappropriate actions by the IRS in targeting groups that hold certain political beliefs, as well as its previous improper use of taxpayer funds, the bill includes the following provisions:
-- A prohibition on a proposed regulation related to political activities and the tax-exempt status of 501©(4) organizations. The proposed regulation could jeopardize the tax-exempt status of many non-profit organizations and inhibit citizens from exercising their right to freedom of speech, simply because they may be involved in political activity.
-- A prohibition on funds for bonuses or awards unless employee conduct and tax compliance is given consideration.
-- A prohibition on funds for the IRS to target groups for regulatory scrutiny based on their ideological beliefs.
-- A prohibition on funds for the IRS to target individuals for exercising their First Amendment rights.
-- A prohibition on funding for the production of inappropriate videos and conferences.
-- A prohibition on funding for the White House to order the IRS to determine the tax-exempt status of an organization.
-- A requirement for extensive reporting on IRS spending.
ObamaCare –The bill also includes provisions to stop the IRS from further implementing ObamaCare, including a prohibition on any transfers of funding from the Department of Health and Human Services to the IRS for ObamaCare uses, and a prohibition on funding for the IRS to implement an individual insurance mandate on the American people.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Internal Revenue Service (IRS) – Included in the bill is $10.95 billion for the IRS – a cut of $341 million below the fiscal year 2014 enacted level and $1.5 billion below the President’s budget request. This will bring the agency’s budget below the sequester level and below the level that was in place in fiscal year 2008. This funding level is sufficient for the IRS to perform its core duties, including taxpayer services and the proper collection of funds, but will require the agency to streamline and make better use of its budget.

-- A requirement for extensive reporting on IRS spending.
-- A prohibition on funding for the White House to order the IRS to determine the tax-exempt status of an organization.
-- A prohibition on funding for the production of inappropriate videos and conferences.
-- A prohibition on funds for the IRS to target individuals for exercising their First Amendment rights.
-- A prohibition on funds for the IRS to target groups for regulatory scrutiny based on their ideological beliefs.
-- A prohibition on funds for bonuses or awards unless employee conduct and tax compliance is given consideration.
-- A prohibition on a proposed regulation related to political activities and the tax-exempt status of 501©(4) organizations. The proposed regulation could jeopardize the tax-exempt status of many non-profit organizations and inhibit citizens from exercising their right to freedom of speech, simply because they may be involved in political activity.
In addition, due to the inappropriate actions by the IRS in targeting groups that hold certain political beliefs, as well as its previous improper use of taxpayer funds, the bill includes the following provisions:
ObamaCare –The bill also includes provisions to stop the IRS from further implementing ObamaCare, including a prohibition on any transfers of funding from the Department of Health and Human Services to the IRS for ObamaCare uses, and a prohibition on funding for the IRS to implement an individual insurance mandate on the American people.

Oh...I hope that's not all. People need to burn for using the IRS as a cudgel to smash political rivals.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

That chart contradicts previously available information, so I'm not really sure what the real story is. I haven't looked at the underlying documents provided in response to the FOIA request.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323873904578571363311816922

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/irs-tea-party-targeting-investigation-93503.html

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456

Amazing:

Refuting Democratic suggestions that progressive groups were also swept up in the IRS probe of the tax status of Tea Party organizations, the Treasury Department's inspector general has revealed that just six progressive groups were targeted compared to 292 conservative groups.

The operative paragraph from the IG letter:

"Based on the information you flagged regarding the existence of a 'Progressives' entry on BOLO lists, TIGTA performed additional research which determined that six tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 having the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were included in the 298 cases the IRS identified as potential political cases. We also determined that 14 tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 using the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were not referred for added scrutiny as potential political cases. In total, 30 percent of the organizations we identified with the words 'progress' or "progressive" in their names were processed as potential political cases. In comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were processed as potential political cases during the timeframe of our audit."

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

That chart contradicts previously available information, so I'm not really sure what the real story is. I haven't looked at the underlying documents provided in response to the FOIA request.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323873904578571363311816922

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/irs-tea-party-targeting-investigation-93503.html

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456

Amazing:

Refuting Democratic suggestions that progressive groups were also swept up in the IRS probe of the tax status of Tea Party organizations, the Treasury Department's inspector general has revealed that just six progressive groups were targeted compared to 292 conservative groups.

The operative paragraph from the IG letter:

"Based on the information you flagged regarding the existence of a 'Progressives' entry on BOLO lists, TIGTA performed additional research which determined that six tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 having the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were included in the 298 cases the IRS identified as potential political cases. We also determined that 14 tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 using the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were not referred for added scrutiny as potential political cases. In total, 30 percent of the organizations we identified with the words 'progress' or "progressive" in their names were processed as potential political cases. In comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were processed as potential political cases during the timeframe of our audit."

O M G

It was the IG, but close.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

That chart contradicts previously available information, so I'm not really sure what the real story is. I haven't looked at the underlying documents provided in response to the FOIA request.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323873904578571363311816922

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/irs-tea-party-targeting-investigation-93503.html

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456

Amazing:

Refuting Democratic suggestions that progressive groups were also swept up in the IRS probe of the tax status of Tea Party organizations, the Treasury Department's inspector general has revealed that just six progressive groups were targeted compared to 292 conservative groups.

The operative paragraph from the IG letter:

"Based on the information you flagged regarding the existence of a 'Progressives' entry on BOLO lists, TIGTA performed additional research which determined that six tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 having the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were included in the 298 cases the IRS identified as potential political cases. We also determined that 14 tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 using the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were not referred for added scrutiny as potential political cases. In total, 30 percent of the organizations we identified with the words 'progress' or "progressive" in their names were processed as potential political cases. In comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were processed as potential political cases during the timeframe of our audit."

O M G

Try to look at it objectively. You seriously don't see anything wrong with those numbers? At all?

I just want to be clear here that you'll have absolutely no issue when a Republican President uses the IRS to silence his/her political rivals, right?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

That chart contradicts previously available information, so I'm not really sure what the real story is. I haven't looked at the underlying documents provided in response to the FOIA request.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323873904578571363311816922

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/irs-tea-party-targeting-investigation-93503.html

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456

Amazing:

Refuting Democratic suggestions that progressive groups were also swept up in the IRS probe of the tax status of Tea Party organizations, the Treasury Department's inspector general has revealed that just six progressive groups were targeted compared to 292 conservative groups.

The operative paragraph from the IG letter:

"Based on the information you flagged regarding the existence of a 'Progressives' entry on BOLO lists, TIGTA performed additional research which determined that six tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 having the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were included in the 298 cases the IRS identified as potential political cases. We also determined that 14 tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 using the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were not referred for added scrutiny as potential political cases. In total, 30 percent of the organizations we identified with the words 'progress' or "progressive" in their names were processed as potential political cases. In comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were processed as potential political cases during the timeframe of our audit."

It's not "AMAZING" at all. After being flagged on the BOLO lists, do you know exactly what analysis was done? Perhaps many of the applications with "progress" or "progressive" were easily identifiable as non-political organizations upon examination.

You have absolutely no idea what the analysis process was like. But of course it's a conspiracy, and the orders came directly from Barack to Lehner, right?

 

[Courtjester]

Then Tommy, they should refute the claims instead of just taking the Fifth and hiding behind lost emails.

Just explain the rationale of what went down and go from there. If there is no wrong doing this will be proven to be a non-issue.

 

[timschochet]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Here's a chart showing what kinds of groups were targeted.

That chart contradicts previously available information, so I'm not really sure what the real story is. I haven't looked at the underlying documents provided in response to the FOIA request.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323873904578571363311816922

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/irs-tea-party-targeting-investigation-93503.html

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456

Amazing:

Refuting Democratic suggestions that progressive groups were also swept up in the IRS probe of the tax status of Tea Party organizations, the Treasury Department's inspector general has revealed that just six progressive groups were targeted compared to 292 conservative groups.

The operative paragraph from the IG letter:

"Based on the information you flagged regarding the existence of a 'Progressives' entry on BOLO lists, TIGTA performed additional research which determined that six tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 having the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were included in the 298 cases the IRS identified as potential political cases. We also determined that 14 tax-exempt applications filed between May 2010 and May 2012 using the words 'progress' or 'progressive' in their names were not referred for added scrutiny as potential political cases. In total, 30 percent of the organizations we identified with the words 'progress' or "progressive" in their names were processed as potential political cases. In comparison, our audit found that 100 percent of the tax-exempt applications with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were processed as potential political cases during the timeframe of our audit."

It's not "AMAZING" at all. After being flagged on the BOLO lists, do you know exactly what analysis was done? Perhaps many of the applications with "progress" or "progressive" were easily identifiable as non-political organizations upon examination.

You have absolutely no idea what the analysis process was like. But of course it's a conspiracy, and the orders came directly from Barack to Lehner, right?

Lord gunz, why do you have to make a good point and then overstate the case?

The amazing part was the extreme difference between the TP analysis in comparison to the Treasury IG's own findings.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

uh yeah nothing going on now, lessee:

• Iraq going bye-bye into the hands of caliphatist terrorists
• Ukraine going bananas with troops plane shot down and tanks mysteriously appearing
• Bergdahl coming home
• illegal aliens in the Rose Garden
• Benghazi terrorist captured
• baby dumpoff on the border
• Hillary book tour
• GM on its gazillionth recall
• and.... WH (whoopsie) loses Lerner's emails

Yeah all's quiet right now.

 

[eurotrashman]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

uh yeah nothing going on now, lessee:

• Iraq going bye-bye into the hands of caliphatist terrorists
• Ukraine going bananas with troops plane shot down and tanks mysteriously appearing
• Bergdahl coming home
• illegal aliens in the Rose Garden
• Benghazi terrorist captured
• baby dumpoff on the border
• Hillary book tour
• GM on its gazillionth recall
• and.... WH (whoopsie) loses Lerner's emails

Yeah all's quiet right now.

Illegal aliens? Really?

 

[Todd Andrews]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

uh yeah nothing going on now, lessee:

• Iraq going bye-bye into the hands of caliphatist terrorists
• Ukraine going bananas with troops plane shot down and tanks mysteriously appearing
• Bergdahl coming home
• illegal aliens in the Rose Garden
• Benghazi terrorist captured
• baby dumpoff on the border
• Hillary book tour
• GM on its gazillionth recall
• and.... WH (whoopsie) loses Lerner's emails

Yeah all's quiet right now.

Compared to our leaders taking our resources out of the fight against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and invading Iraq, and ignoring New Orleans after Katrina, your list is heaven. You're kidding right?

Or do you have really messed up priorities, Saints? I mean, I am trying to understand why you spend so much time with your vague "I'm just asking questions" shtick about incredibly insignificant stuff. Either you are trying to hide your KooKiness behind a veil of "aw shucks" look at all the bad Obama stuff, or you actually think this stuff is a big deal.

Your list through non-KooK eyes:

• Iraq going bye-bye into the hands of caliphatist terrorists = Iraq has been a sh*thole of insurgents and insanity since we invaded, so?
• Ukraine going bananas with troops plane shot down and tanks mysteriously appearing = Putin is a di*k and unrest in the world happens!
• Bergdahl coming home = so what?
• illegal aliens in the Rose Garden = KooK says what?!
• Benghazi terrorist captured = GREAT!!!
• baby dumpoff on the border = um, our borders have been messed up for a long time--you ever hear of rape trees?
• Hillary book tour = KooK says what?!
• GM on its gazillionth recall = car recalls are lame.
• and.... WH (whoopsie) loses Lerner's emails = who cares? Government incompetence and/or bureaucratic asscovering....SHOCKING!

 

[rockaction]

Once again, the left-wingers and centrist on a message board have "OMG'd," "Kooked," and "No Labelled" this subpoena and subsequent two years of missing emails right out of existence.

Our bad. How could Lois and the IRS -- not to mention Congress's petulance over non-compliance -- ever have been taken this seriously? Todd Andrews and timschochet are on the case!

 

[rockaction]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

Sorry that election fraud and the abuse of executive agencies is so...tedious.

Dear God, tim. Your complaint is that it's boring?

 

[timschochet]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

Sorry that election fraud and the abuse of executive agencies is so...tedious.

Dear God, tim. Your complaint is that it's boring?

I offer no complaint. And it's not boring to me, otherwise I wouldn't post in this thread.

My point was that it's boring to the American public. And that's why this scandal will continue to make very little news, I'm guessing. The public just isn't interested in this sort of thing. The IRS, like the NSA, isn't sexy. Benghazi, that's more interesting because people died. This has to do with the IRS, and people don't want to hear about the IRS. Even on Fox News, when this story comes on people change the channel.

Sorry, but there it is.

 

[rockaction]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

Sorry that election fraud and the abuse of executive agencies is so...tedious.

Dear God, tim. Your complaint is that it's boring?

I offer no complaint. And it's not boring to me, otherwise I wouldn't post in this thread.

My point was that it's boring to the American public. And that's why this scandal will continue to make very little news, I'm guessing. The public just isn't interested in this sort of thing. The IRS, like the NSA, isn't sexy. Benghazi, that's more interesting because people died. This has to do with the IRS, and people don't want to hear about the IRS. Even on Fox News, when this story comes on people change the channel.

Sorry, but there it is.

Fair enough. I think the potential allegations are very interesting, and really damning. When executive/administrative agencies target political opponents, I actually think that it's malfeasance of the worst order. If it comes to pass that they actually did, it's not really a partisan issue with me. It's a deeply-held opinion of mine that since administrative agencies give you less due process than other forms of gov't, they need to be watched extra carefully. Ever since Willrich's "City of Courts," this has been a concern of mine.

I don't watch Fox, BTW. Can't really stand it anymore, other than the attractive anchorwomen, which seems to be their business model.

 

[TPW]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

 

[Politician Spock]

With the Benghazi story going nowhere (and the Bergdahl story nothing to begin with) conservatives may play this one up a little more in coming weeks. Even though it's boring.

Sorry that election fraud and the abuse of executive agencies is so...tedious.

Dear God, tim. Your complaint is that it's boring?

I offer no complaint. And it's not boring to me, otherwise I wouldn't post in this thread.My point was that it's boring to the American public. And that's why this scandal will continue to make very little news, I'm guessing. The public just isn't interested in this sort of thing. The IRS, like the NSA, isn't sexy. Benghazi, that's more interesting because people died. This has to do with the IRS, and people don't want to hear about the IRS. Even on Fox News, when this story comes on people change the channel.

Sorry, but there it is.

90%+ of the threads here in the FFA are too boring (or too something) for the news.

Why is that aspect of this topic an issue here?

 

[rockaction]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This was apparent from the moment the story broke. The public and the committee were never, ever getting those emails. Ever.

I guess if your desire is to be a mainstream, "thoughtful journalist," or work somewhere in government, you have to give the IRS the benefit of the doubt that their new narrative -- "we followed protocol" -- is acceptable.

Thankfully, I'm just an internet commenter so I can laugh all day about it being such bull#### that it should strain even the most credulous, in-the-tank supporters of the government in this instance.

 

[jon_mx]

I think this is just Obama living up to his campaign promise of being transparent. But by transparent, he meant invisible.

 

[Hang 10]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

 

[Tackling Dummies]

YES WE CAN!

 

[avoiding injuries]

CBS is the only network to have covered the missing emails. Wtf

 

[Bogeys]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

From that article:

That’s because before May 2013, the IRS backed up emails only for six months on a tape, then recycled the tapes, so they essentially threw out the data. Many agencies do the same, transparency experts say.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

CBS is the only network to have covered the missing emails. Wtf

Network news is kind of ridiculous these days; 22 minutes of news and it seems driven by the entertainment divisions.

 

[rockaction]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

From that article:

That’s because before May 2013, the IRS backed up emails only for six months on a tape, then recycled the tapes, so they essentially threw out the data. Many agencies do the same, transparency experts say.

That is indeed the new narrative. Glad a version of Journolist still exists.

From The Nation: Moreover, this is not an uncommon occurrence. Federal record-keeping borders on abysmal. Time and again crucial documents from many different agencies have gone missing. This episode reveals a much more banal form of federal noncompliance and malfeasance than what’s alleged by Limbaugh and company—but a much more real scandal.

I'm not even going to bother looking at the other liberal papers because I know already that the "real scandal" is going to be about record-keeping.

Megan McArdle (a "responsible" conservative journalist if ever there was one) did the same thing in the Atlantic a day ago, blah blah blah.

eta* I should add that regardless of the unwillingness by particular papers and online magazines to press the point of a more nefarious scandal, recognizing that regulators and federal agencies are held to lower standards of record-keeping than those they regulate -- especially since they have the power to punish for inadequate record-keeping -- is, as McArdle points out, something which people should be fuming about.

 

[Bogeys]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

From that article:

That’s because before May 2013, the IRS backed up emails only for six months on a tape, then recycled the tapes, so they essentially threw out the data. Many agencies do the same, transparency experts say.

That is indeed the new narrative. Glad a version of Journolist still exists.

From The Nation: Moreover, this is not an uncommon occurrence. Federal record-keeping borders on abysmal. Time and again crucial documents from many different agencies have gone missing. This episode reveals a much more banal form of federal noncompliance and malfeasance than what’s alleged by Limbaugh and company—but a much more real scandal.

I'm not even going to bother looking at the other liberal papers because I know already that the "real scandal" is going to be about record-keeping.

Megan McArdle (a "responsible" conservative journalist if ever there was one) did the same thing in the Atlantic a day ago, blah blah blah.

eta* I should add that regardless of the unwillingness by particular papers and online magazines to press the point of a more nefarious scandal, recognizing that regulators and federal agencies are held to lower standards of record-keeping than those they regulate -- especially since they have the power to punish for inadequate record-keeping -- is, as McArdle points out, something which people should be fuming about.

I agree with all that you have said, just answering the question about the server.

I do think it is sad that a business must keep 7 years (more depending on retirement plans) of records for the IRS but they only keep 6 months of their own. I don't really think the WH is involved in the destruction of hard drives and losing all the emails, but it wouldn't suprise me if the people actually involved at the IRS did it because they knew they were breaking the law or treading very close in what they were doing.

 

[rockaction]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

From that article:

That’s because before May 2013, the IRS backed up emails only for six months on a tape, then recycled the tapes, so they essentially threw out the data. Many agencies do the same, transparency experts say.

That is indeed the new narrative. Glad a version of Journolist still exists.

From The Nation: Moreover, this is not an uncommon occurrence. Federal record-keeping borders on abysmal. Time and again crucial documents from many different agencies have gone missing. This episode reveals a much more banal form of federal noncompliance and malfeasance than what’s alleged by Limbaugh and company—but a much more real scandal.

I'm not even going to bother looking at the other liberal papers because I know already that the "real scandal" is going to be about record-keeping.

Megan McArdle (a "responsible" conservative journalist if ever there was one) did the same thing in the Atlantic a day ago, blah blah blah.

eta* I should add that regardless of the unwillingness by particular papers and online magazines to press the point of a more nefarious scandal, recognizing that regulators and federal agencies are held to lower standards of record-keeping than those they regulate -- especially since they have the power to punish for inadequate record-keeping -- is, as McArdle points out, something which people should be fuming about.

I agree with all that you have said, just answering the question about the server.

I do think it is sad that a business must keep 7 years (more depending on retirement plans) of records for the IRS but they only keep 6 months of their own. I don't really think the WH is involved in the destruction of hard drives and losing all the emails, but it wouldn't suprise me if the people actually involved at the IRS did it because they knew they were breaking the law or treading very close in what they were doing.

Yeah, I'm not trying to be caustic, I'm just pointing out that the narrative tends to change daily and be eerily similar across mass media outlets. I think when Ezra Klein couldn't deny that a version of Journolist didn't still exist, we had -- those of us that consume media like this frequently -- our answer about narratives and the political shaping thereof.

I also think it's plausible they lost the data. I just don't believe it.

 

[The Commish]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

From that article:

That’s because before May 2013, the IRS backed up emails only for six months on a tape, then recycled the tapes, so they essentially threw out the data. Many agencies do the same, transparency experts say.

That is indeed the new narrative. Glad a version of Journolist still exists.

From The Nation: Moreover, this is not an uncommon occurrence. Federal record-keeping borders on abysmal. Time and again crucial documents from many different agencies have gone missing. This episode reveals a much more banal form of federal noncompliance and malfeasance than what’s alleged by Limbaugh and company—but a much more real scandal.

I'm not even going to bother looking at the other liberal papers because I know already that the "real scandal" is going to be about record-keeping.

Megan McArdle (a "responsible" conservative journalist if ever there was one) did the same thing in the Atlantic a day ago, blah blah blah.

eta* I should add that regardless of the unwillingness by particular papers and online magazines to press the point of a more nefarious scandal, recognizing that regulators and federal agencies are held to lower standards of record-keeping than those they regulate -- especially since they have the power to punish for inadequate record-keeping -- is, as McArdle points out, something which people should be fuming about.

I agree with all that you have said, just answering the question about the server.

I do think it is sad that a business must keep 7 years (more depending on retirement plans) of records for the IRS but they only keep 6 months of their own. I don't really think the WH is involved in the destruction of hard drives and losing all the emails, but it wouldn't suprise me if the people actually involved at the IRS did it because they knew they were breaking the law or treading very close in what they were doing.

We need to slow down a little bit here. I'm seeing some confusion in requirements. Businesses have different retention requirements for different types of data. Not all data is equal and the law isn't "you must keep copies of all your data for 7 years". For example, at my company we have to keep 7 years of customer data (in some cases up to 15) including data about transactions they have with us, complaints etc etc. Our internal email is set to be retained for a year then it starts rolling off.

With all that said.....there is no way this IRS situation happened without human intervention. Someone deleted data. Period. And if their retention periods are as short as they claimed, then it's something pretty easy to do unfortunately.

 

[Bogeys]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

From that article:

That’s because before May 2013, the IRS backed up emails only for six months on a tape, then recycled the tapes, so they essentially threw out the data. Many agencies do the same, transparency experts say.

That is indeed the new narrative. Glad a version of Journolist still exists.

From The Nation: Moreover, this is not an uncommon occurrence. Federal record-keeping borders on abysmal. Time and again crucial documents from many different agencies have gone missing. This episode reveals a much more banal form of federal noncompliance and malfeasance than what’s alleged by Limbaugh and company—but a much more real scandal.

I'm not even going to bother looking at the other liberal papers because I know already that the "real scandal" is going to be about record-keeping.

Megan McArdle (a "responsible" conservative journalist if ever there was one) did the same thing in the Atlantic a day ago, blah blah blah.

eta* I should add that regardless of the unwillingness by particular papers and online magazines to press the point of a more nefarious scandal, recognizing that regulators and federal agencies are held to lower standards of record-keeping than those they regulate -- especially since they have the power to punish for inadequate record-keeping -- is, as McArdle points out, something which people should be fuming about.

I agree with all that you have said, just answering the question about the server.

I do think it is sad that a business must keep 7 years (more depending on retirement plans) of records for the IRS but they only keep 6 months of their own. I don't really think the WH is involved in the destruction of hard drives and losing all the emails, but it wouldn't suprise me if the people actually involved at the IRS did it because they knew they were breaking the law or treading very close in what they were doing.

We need to slow down a little bit here. I'm seeing some confusion in requirements. Businesses have different retention requirements for different types of data. Not all data is equal and the law isn't "you must keep copies of all your data for 7 years". For example, at my company we have to keep 7 years of customer data (in some cases up to 15) including data about transactions they have with us, complaints etc etc. Our internal email is set to be retained for a year then it starts rolling off.

With all that said.....there is no way this IRS situation happened without human intervention. Someone deleted data. Period. And if their retention periods are as short as they claimed, then it's something pretty easy to do unfortunately.

Yeah, sorry. I meant business records that might pertain to anything the IRS would have jurisdiction over. I know at one company I worked at that had a company paid pension plan we had to keep those records for as long as the pension plan went back. Last count I knew (haven't worked there in 15 years) was about 42 years worth.

 

[3C's]

This is not true. Many, many companies have terrible DR and retention policies. Most companies are working hard to get to the point where they have these things, but many are not close yet. You would think the IRS would have a great plan, but who knows.

here's a former IRS IT guy laying out all the redundancies required by law and explaining how the IRS backs up everything

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/06/16/exclusive-former-irs-information-tech-worker-doubts-agencys-claim-to-have-lost-lerners-emails/?singlepage=true

A guy who was an "IT specialist" working for CSC in 1998? Guy sounds like he knows a little of what he's talking about but I know VTL. Depending on the environment VTL is the first stop in data retention and then the data is dumped to tape and the data is removed from virtual. It's not some sort of infinite storage. And tapes are reused all the time.They're expensive, as are disks in a virtual environment. Tapeless VTL is a more recent design because the cost of hard drives has come down enough to make it affordable. Oh, and VTL didn't even come about until around 1998. And it was made for mainframes (note, Exchange doesn't run on mainframes). VTL wasn't used in server environments until later.

 

[3C's]

Hard drives were destroyed.

This administration is truly lawless. While you progressives might think it's cool and funny to do whatever it takes to stick it to the political opposition, what you are in fact doing is creating the perfect breeding environment for a future strongman to take over a heavy-handed executive branch whose powers have been so thoroughly corrupted.

Good lord these people are crooks. Also arent emails stored on a server not a hard drive?

From that article:

That’s because before May 2013, the IRS backed up emails only for six months on a tape, then recycled the tapes, so they essentially threw out the data. Many agencies do the same, transparency experts say.

That is indeed the new narrative. Glad a version of Journolist still exists.

From The Nation: Moreover, this is not an uncommon occurrence. Federal record-keeping borders on abysmal. Time and again crucial documents from many different agencies have gone missing. This episode reveals a much more banal form of federal noncompliance and malfeasance than what’s alleged by Limbaugh and company—but a much more real scandal.

I'm not even going to bother looking at the other liberal papers because I know already that the "real scandal" is going to be about record-keeping.

Megan McArdle (a "responsible" conservative journalist if ever there was one) did the same thing in the Atlantic a day ago, blah blah blah.

eta* I should add that regardless of the unwillingness by particular papers and online magazines to press the point of a more nefarious scandal, recognizing that regulators and federal agencies are held to lower standards of record-keeping than those they regulate -- especially since they have the power to punish for inadequate record-keeping -- is, as McArdle points out, something which people should be fuming about.

I agree with all that you have said, just answering the question about the server.

I do think it is sad that a business must keep 7 years (more depending on retirement plans) of records for the IRS but they only keep 6 months of their own. I don't really think the WH is involved in the destruction of hard drives and losing all the emails, but it wouldn't suprise me if the people actually involved at the IRS did it because they knew they were breaking the law or treading very close in what they were doing.

We need to slow down a little bit here. I'm seeing some confusion in requirements. Businesses have different retention requirements for different types of data. Not all data is equal and the law isn't "you must keep copies of all your data for 7 years". For example, at my company we have to keep 7 years of customer data (in some cases up to 15) including data about transactions they have with us, complaints etc etc. Our internal email is set to be retained for a year then it starts rolling off.

With all that said.....there is no way this IRS situation happened without human intervention. Someone deleted data. Period. And if their retention periods are as short as they claimed, then it's something pretty easy to do unfortunately.

Yeah, the "7 year law" statement was "a bit off."

 

[avoiding injuries]

CBS is the only network to have covered the missing emails. Wtf

Network news is kind of ridiculous these days; 22 minutes of news and it seems driven by the entertainment divisions.

What about the morning shows that go on for 2-3 hours, cover the weather 15 times and report everything from top news stories to fluff pieces? Time is not an issue, they just don't deem this to be news.

 

[The Commish]

This is not true. Many, many companies have terrible DR and retention policies. Most companies are working hard to get to the point where they have these things, but many are not close yet. You would think the IRS would have a great plan, but who knows.

here's a former IRS IT guy laying out all the redundancies required by law and explaining how the IRS backs up everything

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/06/16/exclusive-former-irs-information-tech-worker-doubts-agencys-claim-to-have-lost-lerners-emails/?singlepage=true

A guy who was an "IT specialist" working for CSC in 1998? Guy sounds like he knows a little of what he's talking about but I know VTL. Depending on the environment VTL is the first stop in data retention and then the data is dumped to tape and the data is removed from virtual. It's not some sort of infinite storage. And tapes are reused all the time.They're expensive, as are disks in a virtual environment. Tapeless VTL is a more recent design because the cost of hard drives has come down enough to make it affordable. Oh, and VTL didn't even come about until around 1998. And it was made for mainframes (note, Exchange doesn't run on mainframes). VTL wasn't used in server environments until later.

We have array after array "sitting" in a "DR" scenario where data is just copied from one disk to another in case we have some major event where a site blows up or a natural disaster hits etc. For most of our systems there are no less than 6-8 copies of your data on an actual disk in a data center. Of course, if the data is deleted while in production, it doesn't take long for that delete to replicate through all the copies also, but it's ALL on tape for a period of time. If tapes are "lost" they are "lost" for periods of time not for individual users.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

 

[Boston]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

 

[The Commish]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

What data was believed to be on the hard drive that has folks up in arms? The emails or some other documents? If it's just the emails, I don't see the big deal.

 

[Hang 10]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

What data was believed to be on the hard drive that has folks up in arms? The emails or some other documents? If it's just the emails, I don't see the big deal.

Who was directing the targeting of Tea Party groups.

 

[The Commish]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

What data was believed to be on the hard drive that has folks up in arms? The emails or some other documents? If it's just the emails, I don't see the big deal.

Who was directing the targeting of Tea Party groups.

In document form or emails? Seems bizarre that actual documents would be written and saved.....sorry for the dumb questions. Haven't paid a lot of attention. Trying to get away from the SSDD stuff with our gov't.

 

[rockaction]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

What data was believed to be on the hard drive that has folks up in arms? The emails or some other documents? If it's just the emails, I don't see the big deal.

Who was directing the targeting of Tea Party groups.

In document form or emails? Seems bizarre that actual documents would be written and saved.....sorry for the dumb questions. Haven't paid a lot of attention. Trying to get away from the SSDD stuff with our gov't.

It was the hard drives of her and six other persons of interest that have gone missing. What is of interest are the emails that would have been external ones -- ones sent to other agencies, The White House, etc. -- that both the House and Senate committees were interested in because those emails would show if the targeting of conservative groups for non-profit status was a coordinated effort. The time period during which the targeting would have happened is exactly the time period for which they have gone missing.

According to the IRS's own Congressional testimony, all emails are supposed to be backed up, and according to many sources, Congress was assured back in March that they were indeed available. A quote from an article written on June 15th by John Fund.

In March of this year, John Koskinen, the new IRS commissioner, testified before Congress that all the e-mails of IRS employees are “stored in servers.” The agency’s own manual specifies that it “provides for backup and recovery of records to protect against information loss or corruption.” The reason is simple. It is well known in legal and IT circles that failure to preserve e-mails can lead to a court ruling of “spoliation of evidence.” That means a judge or jury is then instructed to treat deletions as if they were deliberate destruction of incriminating evidence.

Why is the loss of the Lerner e-mails particularly important? Last year’s report by the IRS inspector general set out a timeline of the IRS’s targeting of conservative groups. A full 16 of the 26 non-redacted events in the inspector general’s timeline took place during the period for which all of Lerner’s e-mails were “lost,” and these 16 instances refer to “e-mail” as the source for information on that event. As tax expert Alan Joel points out, much of the context about how the IRS scandal developed and who may have known about it is now “lost” in the black hole the Lerner e-mails are supposed to have been sucked into.

 

[tommyGunZ]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

What data was believed to be on the hard drive that has folks up in arms? The emails or some other documents? If it's just the emails, I don't see the big deal.

I'm not in IT, but I've worked on several cases where electronic data was required to be produced and have seen several instances where email backup tapes were reused after 6 months or so of storage.

Anything destroyed after a stop order was in place is wrong and the IRS should be grilled if that indeed happened. But if Lerners emails were destroyed due to a systemic backup process, this will turn out to be yet another "conspiracy" where conservatives jumped the gun w/o considering the facts.

 

[Bogeys]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

What data was believed to be on the hard drive that has folks up in arms? The emails or some other documents? If it's just the emails, I don't see the big deal.

I'm not in IT, but I've worked on several cases where electronic data was required to be produced and have seen several instances where email backup tapes were reused after 6 months or so of storage.

Anything destroyed after a stop order was in place is wrong and the IRS should be grilled if that indeed happened. But if Lerners emails were destroyed due to a systemic backup process, this will turn out to be yet another "conspiracy" where conservatives jumped the gun w/o considering the facts.

This is what the story says is normal and what was done in this case. The problem is that it wasn't just Lerners hard drive, but hers and 6 others that actually makes me think there is something possibly going on here. Big coincidence if it was just hers but stuff happens...hers and 6 others that were part of the investigation doesn't pass the smell test.

Just to add before this came out I thought it was just some over eager bueracrat and I could see most of the new non profits that could possibly be politiacal on the right, but now I am not that sure that there isn't a cover up of some sort going on. Although I still doubt anyone very high up in the WH had anything to do with it.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

So the IRS recycled Lerner's hard drive, seems like an innocent action to take unless of course the hard drive belonged to an official who took the 5th amendment so as to not incriminate herself.

The silence is deafening on this topic...can anyone really believe this was just a coincidence...hopefully we have a "deep throat" part two as this is the direction this story is taking...

What data was believed to be on the hard drive that has folks up in arms? The emails or some other documents? If it's just the emails, I don't see the big deal.

I'm not in IT, but I've worked on several cases where electronic data was required to be produced and have seen several instances where email backup tapes were reused after 6 months or so of storage.

Anything destroyed after a stop order was in place is wrong and the IRS should be grilled if that indeed happened. But if Lerners emails were destroyed due to a systemic backup process, this will turn out to be yet another "conspiracy" where conservatives jumped the gun w/o considering the facts.

Well, I believe the House first started to inquire about this issue back at the beginning of June 2011 when Dave Camp (House Ways & Means Chairman) wrote a letter inquiring about conservative groups being targeted by the IRS. The IRS responded on July 1st 2011 denying there was anything political to the work they were conducting. Near the end of July 2011 there are emails (ones that were recovered) from Lerner and an IRS tech person claiming they couldn't recover the hard drive. I don't think anything was destroyed after a stop order was in place but the drive was destroyed fairly soon after House Republicans were investigating the matter. I wouldn't call it a smoking gun but it certainly doesn't smell right especially when you factor in that they didn't reveal the missing emails/hard drive until just recently and oh, by the way the same goes for 6 other people involved in the investigation.